The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[StillUnknown]

 

[CRobi21]

Kemba is ridiculous....

[StillUnknown]

this dumbass team is going to win just enough to miss out on a top 5 pick

[CRobi21]

7 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

this dumbass team is going to win just enough to miss out on a top 5 pick

 

Yep.

 

And it seems if they collect enough "gutsy team wins" it earns Ernie secret extensions....

 

Not so fast!! Lol

Edited December 30, 2018 by CRobi21

[Destino]

Bryant, Morris, Dekker, Green, Sato, and Ariza are all expiring contracts. 

 

Enjoy what's left of the season because the Wizards can't afford to resign any of them. 

 

Under contract Next Season:

Wall 37,800,000

Beal 27,093,019

Otto 27,250,575

Mahinmi 15,450,051

Howard (Players Option) 5,603,850

Troy Brown Jr. 3,219,480

Randle 1,818,846

 

Total 116,416,975

Projected Cap 109 Million, 132 million Tax

 

Ernie "the undying" Grunfeld will probably get another secret extension for a job well done. 

[Metalhead]

10 minutes ago, Destino said:

Bryant, Morris, Dekker, Green, Sato, and Ariza are all expiring contracts. 

 

Enjoy what's left of the season because the Wizards can't afford to resign any of them. 

 

Starting next season Ernie will have $90 million tied up in only three players (Wall, Beal, Porter). That is insane. No room to sign significant free agents and he craps all over draft picks and rookies.

 

What is Ernie's ideal roster? All vets and castoffs?

[StillUnknown]

23 minutes ago, Destino said:

Bryant, Morris, Dekker, Green, Sato, and Ariza are all expiring contracts. 

 

Enjoy what's left of the season because the Wizards can't afford to resign any of them. 

 

Under contract Next Season:

Wall 37,800,000

Beal 27,093,019

Otto 27,250,575

Mahinmi 15,450,051

Howard (Players Option) 5,603,850

Troy Brown Jr. 3,219,480

Randle 1,818,846

 

Total 116,416,975

Projected Cap 109 Million, 132 million Tax

 

Ernie "the undying" Grunfeld will probably get another secret extension for a job well done. 

 

[No Excuses]

A player option for Dwight Howard... classic Grunfeld. Nothing more screams bad franchise that can’t attract talent. 

[Going Commando]

4 hours ago, Destino said:

Beal is the only one of the three worth keeping long term for any rebuild plan. 

 

Wall is better than him.  Easier to build around a PG too.  I don't even have to work that hard to create a top ten offense around a PG like Wall.  Even morons like Ernie can do it.

 

He needs to get healthy, and that's always the rub when you build around a high usage star.  But he gives you the ability to reboot quickly instead of starting over from step one.

 

The Rockets are our best model for rebuilding.  As long as you have that one foundation offensive player locked up long term, you can hit the right chemical mix in any given year and make huge strides.  Just need to find a legit GM and get the right coach.

 

Step one of the reboot was shutting down Wall and trying to get him right for next year.

Step two needs to be getting our ducks in a row to tank. 

 

One of Beal or Porter needs to be dealt picks are ideal.  If Beal stays, then he needs to be shut down too.

 

We need to get Zion Williamson or Bol Bol.  Those are probably our only shot at a quick turnaround.

[Hersh]

Not that the Wiz have a good GM, but a decent GM should be able to trade Beal for an expiring plus a first and another young player with potential at the very minimum. Damn I wish Ted would fire Ernie so a competent GM could start a bidding war for Beal. Interest would be high in him around the league. 

[Hersh]

8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Wall is better than him.  Easier to build around a PG too.  I don't even have to work that hard to create a top ten offense around a PG like Wall.  Even morons like Ernie can do it.

 

He needs to get healthy, and that's always the rub when you build around a high usage star.  But he gives you the ability to reboot quickly instead of starting over from step one.

 

The Rockets are our best model for rebuilding.  As long as you have that one foundation offensive player locked up long term, you can hit the right chemical mix in any given year and make huge strides.  Just need to find a legit GM and get the right coach.

 

Step one of the reboot was shutting down Wall and trying to get him right for next year.

Step two needs to be getting our ducks in a row to tank. 

 

One of Beal or Porter needs to be dealt picks are ideal.  If Beal stays, then he needs to be shut down too.

 

We need to get Zion Williamson or Bol Bol.  Those are probably our only shot at a quick turnaround.

 

The Houston model? Sorry, but Harden is WAY better than Wall and they have entirely different games. If your view is the put a Harden like scorer next to Wall, well, please explain how the Wiz are going to do that. 

 

Traditional PGs like Wall don't really win titles as the first or second options. This is why Philly went out and got Butler. Wall being the lead player takes you to 45 wins max and won't beat Boston, Philly, the Raptors or the Bucks. Play the longer game to build a championship contender. 

[Destino]

34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Wall is better than him.  Easier to build around a PG too.  I don't even have to work that hard to create a top ten offense around a PG like Wall.  Even morons like Ernie can do it.

 

He needs to get healthy, and that's always the rub when you build around a high usage star. 

Wall is better.  He's also far more expensive, older, has had trouble staying in shape, and has now missed most of two consecutive seasons.  Nothing about that projects well 3+ years from now as he moves over 30 years old.  Any rebuild around a rookie is going to take some time.

 

That's ignoring all of the locker room drama that is constantly swirling around him. 

 

34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The Rockets are our best model for rebuilding.  As long as you have that one foundation offensive player locked up long term, you can hit the right chemical mix in any given year and make huge strides.  Just need to find a legit GM and get the right coach.

Wall isn't on the same planet as Harden.  I don't think the Wizards can be contenders so long as Wall is the first option on offense.  Harden, on the other hand, is the best half court scoring option in the NBA.  Wall isn't the Harden in the Houston model.  If we have to use that as a comparison he'd be CP3.  There is no Harden on the Wizards.

Edited December 30, 2018 by Destino

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

Wall isn't on the same planet as Harden.  I don't think the Wizards can be contenders so long as Wall is the first option on offense.  Harden, on the other hand, is the best half court scoring option in the NBA.  Wall isn't the Harden in the Houston model.  If we have to use that as a comparison he'd be CP3.  There is no Harden on the Wizards. 

 

So then they cap out at 55 wins instead of 65.  That's good enough in a league where all of the MVP caliber players except Giannis play in the West.

 

Toronto is about to ride the formula to 60+ and a Finals berth.

 

Healthy John is a 22 & 10 player.   An unhealthy John put u 21 and 9.  The dude can sleep walk us to easy offense with a threadbare roster and trash coach.  He's the one you build around.  But it won't happen with Grunfeld and Brooks running the show.

1 hour ago, Destino said:

Any rebuild around a rookie is going to take some time.

 

Rebuilding around Wall, not a rookie.  Zion Williamson is a Larry Johnson forward made for finishing Wall dimes.  Bol Bol is a Rudy Gobert defensive anchor.  They are skill sets that fill immediately useful roles and put star talent in the front court, something we haven't had since the 90's.  Something that a Wall construction has always needed for balance.

Edited December 30, 2018 by stevemcqueen1

[Destino]

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

So then they cap out at 55 wins instead of 65.  That's good enough in a league where all of the MVP caliber players except Giannis play in the West.

 

Toronto is about to ride the formula to 60+ and a Finals berth.

 

Healthy John is a 22 & 10 player.   An unhealthy John put u 21 and 9.  The dude can sleep walk us to easy offense with a threadbare roster and trash coach.  He's the one you build around.  But it won't happen with Grunfeld and Brooks running the show.

John Wall has never won 50 games, suddenly he's going to win 55?  Exactly which players exist that will suddenly stop John from being one of the leagues most shockingly inconsistent stars?  John Wall is great one game and asleep the next one. Inconsistency is why the Wizards haven't won 50 games, not lack of talent, and John Wall is the poster boy for it. 

 

I just don't see any reason to think he's suddenly going to get healthy and be better than he was when he was younger and less injured.  He is what he is, which is damn good... but not good enough to lead a team to 50 wins.  Probably more than good enough to play 2nd fiddle on a 50 win team though.  He's just not the star on a contender.  At least not in my mind anymore. 

 

 

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Rebuilding around Wall, not a rookie.

Why?  We've built around him for years now.  Didn't work.  Why would building around an older more injured version yield significantly better results?  If the team is to rebuild it's to try something else, not more of the same.

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Destino said:

John Wall has never won 50 games, suddenly he's going to win 55?  Exactly which players exist that will suddenly stop John from being one of the leagues most shockingly inconsistent stars?  John Wall is great one game and asleep the next one. Inconsistency is why the Wizards haven't won 50 games, not lack of talent, and John Wall is the poster boy for it. 

 

You're operating on some serious recency bias.  John has 9 years of work and you're only going to look at the last year and two months of it?  John is a workhorse.  The reason Beal has only made one AS game in his career is because he was the 50-50 effort guy until last season.  We used to say the same things about him ghosting games that we say about Otto now.

 

Lack of talent is absolutely a key reason the Wizards have never been a top seed.  We've been delusional about how talented we really are for years.  A 50 year old Paul Pierce came into our locker room for one season and immediately took it over and was our third best player.  We struggled to survive the loss of a Trevor Ariza, to the point we had to give up our only extant draft pick from four straight ****ing draft classes to get him back on a one year rental.  Our starting bigs went to actual good teams and immediately became lightly used bench players.  Same thing is going to happen to Keef too.  Our third best player, whom we gave a max contract to, is a rich man's Trevor Ariza.  A Nic Batum.

 

This roster sucks and it's been entirely propped up to midseed territory by lucking into Wall and Beal.  I've been watching other teams more and they are way more talented than us.  I'm freaking out over Thomas Bryant and good teams take play like that from their bigs for granted.  Ernie is incompetent.

5 hours ago, Destino said:

Why?  We've built around him for years now.  Didn't work.  Why would building around an older more injured version yield significantly better results?  If the team is to rebuild it's to try something else, not more of the same.

 

The problem isn't Wall.  He's been one of the only things about the last ten years that has worked.  We have got to do this thing with a real GM.  We have got to try and find a real coach.  That is the only way we change our culture and grow up as a franchise.  We have got to make a conscious decision to stop settling for being a mom and pop organization.

[justice98]

8 hours ago, Hersh said:

Traditional PGs like Wall don't really win titles as the first or second options. This is why Philly went out and got Butler. Wall being the lead player takes you to 45 wins max and won't beat Boston, Philly, the Raptors or the Bucks. Play the longer game to build a championship contender. 

 

I've had this argument for years.  Building around Wall, and especially at this point in his career would be a huge mistake. That contract might not give them a choice though.  By the time you get better pieces, he'll be 30, 31.  Will probably get more injured, not less.  He's missed significant portions of the last two years already. 

 

This team is doomed for the foreseeable future.  

Edited December 30, 2018 by justice98

[RonArtest15]

Beal is the guy to build around, not Wall. 

 

I love Wall, too.  When healthy, he's top-5 at his position.  However, the gap between him and guys like Curry, CP3, etc is VERY wide.  On top of it all, for a guy who relies on athleticism/speed, he's approaching 30 and coming off some serious injuries.  Doesn't bode well for a guy who isn't the most reliable shooter. 

 

I honestly thought there would be a chance Wall could be traded this season if he could stay on the court.  New Orleans or Los Angeles were the two teams that I guessed would inquire about his services.  Everything is now changed. 

 

Best bet would be for Ernie to do everything in his power to trade Otto/Mahinmi and also put out feelers for Beal.  He's got to do something to give this team some sort of financial flexibility going forward.  They 10000% need to rebuild. 

 

Mahinmi is a little tricky because he sucks, so be prepared mentally for EG to attach a future 1st just to get out from that contract. 

[Renegade7]

17 hours ago, Destino said:

Bryant, Morris, Dekker, Green, Sato, and Ariza are all expiring contracts. 

 

Enjoy what's left of the season because the Wizards can't afford to resign any of them. 

 

Under contract Next Season:

Wall 37,800,000

Beal 27,093,019

Otto 27,250,575

Mahinmi 15,450,051

Howard (Players Option) 5,603,850

Troy Brown Jr. 3,219,480

Randle 1,818,846

 

Total 116,416,975

Projected Cap 109 Million, 132 million Tax

 

Ernie "the undying" Grunfeld will probably get another secret extension for a job well done. 

 

It's hard to look at this with a straight face and deny what has to be done.  I'd be less upset if the person who caused this was given green light to do this.  It will be nice to everybody eats again, but we may end up changing the thread title soon.

[Skins199021]

Yeah pretty easy to say that we should build around Beal if anyone.

 

Wall is overrated, older, injury prone, inefficient, and a crappy outside shooter. The outlook of this team is so much better if we are able to trade Wall and Porter.

 

Pipe dream for 2019. Build around Beal and Zion Williamson, Start Bryant at Center, maybe sign a vet PG (to a non-Max) maybe Eric Bledsoe (3 year deal).

 

So yeah role with Bledsoe-Beal-Brown-Zion-Bryant, don't trade any picks, role with that squad, perhaps have another top 10 pick, let Mahimi's stupid ass contract expire. 

 

2020 perhaps add a big FA along with that top 10 pick to add to the squad mentioned above

[StillUnknown]

 

guess he's next to be out for the year

[Warhead36]

We should have traded Wall to LA when we had the chance.

[spjunkies]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We should have traded Wall to LA when we had the chance.

 

They knew he wouldn't pass the physical.

[RonArtest15]

59 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

guess he's next to be out for the year

 

Which is fine...he's off the books at the end of the year anyways.  He's a negative when on the court.  If he's out, HOPEFULLY this means we'll actually see Devin Robinson get some minutes. 

 

 

[StillUnknown]

 

He's been good at playing passing lanes, but otherwise his defense has bee pretty ****ty

[Chachie]

Gentlemen, I just want to point out real quickly that you're all still trying to analyze this team to figure out how things can get better. 

 

Stop it.