The Official Washington Basketball Thread: Wizards, Mystics etc

[TradeTheBeal!]

The worst team in the league.

[Bozo the kKklown]

 

Wall struggling in Atlanta and Houston shouldn’t be a surprise. The women in those cities, jah bless.

 

 

 

People gonna have to acknowledge this.

 

 

 

good lord

 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

John Wall is my favorite NBA archetype. The dominant player whose teams never win. I go back to World B. Free days, man. Guys who put up monster numbers on teams that win 35 games are awesome. You just have to adjust your mindset to enjoy them.

[Going Commando]

Well this thread is fast becoming the exact same dumbass circle jerk that RealGM was.

[Going Commando]

8 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

People gonna have to acknowledge this.

 

Acknowledge what?  The small sample size theater involved in a stat like that?  The fact that John plays a lot of minutes in line ups where Morris or Green are the center?  The fact that our best defensive line ups this season have still had John Wall in them?

 

Blaming John for this team's trash defense is what I'm talking about when i'm saying he's being scapegoated.  That guy is manipulating a stat and decontextualizing line up data to blame John for a team failure.  It's disappointing that you guys are buying into this narrative.

[Destino]

2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Acknowledge what?  The small sample size theater involved in a stat like that?  The fact that John plays a lot of minutes in line ups where Morris or Green are the center?  The fact that our best defensive line ups this season have still had John Wall in them?

 

Blaming John for this team's trash defense is what I'm talking about when i'm saying he's being scapegoated.  That guy is manipulating a stat and decontextualizing line up data to blame John for a team failure.  It's disappointing that you guys are buying into this narrative.

I don’t blame Wall for the trash team defense.  I blame Brooks, primarily for that because his lineups and coaching combine to make the team defense worse than it should be.  Several players have also been consistently horrible on defense.

 

Speaking of which, I do blame Wall for his own poor defense.  His needless switching away from the ball, rather than staying with his man creates open looks for opponents.  He dies on screens easily.  He hangs out in mid range limbo and only makes half hearted efforts to recover and contest shots.  He tries to slap the ball away from behind too often, which is bad lazy defense.  

 

None of us want Wall to be playing badly, but this season his defense is horrible.  On the road his offense has also been horrible.  There’s no denying it.    

[Bozo the kKklown]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Acknowledge what?  The small sample size theater involved in a stat like that?  The fact that John plays a lot of minutes in line ups where Morris or Green are the center?  The fact that our best defensive line ups this season have still had John Wall in them?

 

Blaming John for this team's trash defense is what I'm talking about when i'm saying he's being scapegoated.  That guy is manipulating a stat and decontextualizing line up data to blame John for a team failure.  It's disappointing that you guys are buying into this narrative.

I am not scapegoating Wall.

 

But he about to be one of the highest paid players in the NBA and can't get up for road games. Talk about it.

[Sticksboi05]

53 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Acknowledge what?  The small sample size theater involved in a stat like that?  The fact that John plays a lot of minutes in line ups where Morris or Green are the center?  The fact that our best defensive line ups this season have still had John Wall in them?

 

Blaming John for this team's trash defense is what I'm talking about when i'm saying he's being scapegoated.  That guy is manipulating a stat and decontextualizing line up data to blame John for a team failure.  It's disappointing that you guys are buying into this narrative.

 

Nobody in this thread is saying Wall is the reason the team defense sucks. People are pointing out that individually he has been pretty mediocre this season on the defensive end.

Edited December 20, 2018 by Sticksboi05

[Chachie]

Not a bad conversation about the pros and cons of John Wall...

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/junkies-john-walls-effort-embarrassing

[Fergasun]

Hometeam fans are the most invested in their star players. That being said, on this roster is Wall really "wasting his talent"? No! The roster is attrocious... Wall and Beal have to constantly carry the team.

I have heard of plenty if athletes who don't "love the game", and see it as a career... and the game us easier to love when you are winning... and not dealing with injuries... and whatever other personal issues you have (good or bad). Not saying I have any special insight.... other than the roster is hot garbage outside of Wall and Beal.

The GM sucks... if anyone has wasted anything it is the inability to get a 3rd, 4th, 5th core player... on the roster.
Sure, development of Otto Porter can be a scapegoat... but I have called him Ghost enough on these threads...

[Chachie]

40 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

Sure, development of Otto Porter can be a scapegoat... but I have called him Ghost enough on these threads...

 

 

 

I think the riddle of Otto makes perfect sense to me if I just accept the fact that he does not have a core player mentality. He simply doesn't think like that.

[Chachie]

So... Ron Baker.

[Going Commando]

19 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

I am not scapegoating Wall.

 

But he about to be one of the highest paid players in the NBA and can't get up for road games. Talk about it.

 

The conversation has been overwhelmingly about Wall.  The team is paving the way to trade him by scapegoating him.  And the fans are just kind of buying the narrative.

 

They're going to end up trading Wall for some crap return and act like it had to be done.  And then Beal will be the guy they sell us on as the franchise, until he can't get it done either.  Then he will be the next one scapegoated and shipped out.

[Hersh]

3 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The conversation has been overwhelmingly about Wall.  The team is paving the way to trade him by scapegoating him.  And the fans are just kind of buying the narrative.

 

They're going to end up trading Wall for some crap return and act like it had to be done.  And then Beal will be the guy they sell us on as the franchise, until he can't get it done either.  Then he will be the next one scapegoated and shipped out.

 

Is Wall worth a super max contract? If so, why?

[Renegade7]

20 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Well this thread is fast becoming the exact same dumbass circle jerk that RealGM was.

How so?  Turning on Wall?  This is first year I've seen the suck that is this franchise really get to him.  He's piling on himself, he doesn't need anyone elses help.  But @Destino is right about individual effort mattering, too.  We should be able to defend Wall for what he's doing right and call him out for what he's doing wrong without wanting to trade him or think we are better without him.

 

I've tried to preach the failure of Scott's defensive schemes frustrating this team into the point of looking like they aren't even trying.  I've seen wizards teams that look ready to party in the 3rd quarter, the look on Beal and Wall's face when Rockets were going for the record was like they had no idea what to do, pure frustration.  This thread has become overcome by frustration. 

 

I'm sure I even want to go to the game next saturday, I want to spend time with my family, been working myself to death to turn around and pay to see a team who I don't know if they plan to work at all.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Renegade7

[Going Commando]

42 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

Is Wall worth a super max contract? If so, why?

 

Of course.  He's a perennial All Star with 9 years of veterancy.  The DPVE was a tradeoff in cap percentage for years of team control.  Sign long term early and we'll skip the 1+1 hostage situation and give you the 35% max you'll command after season 10 a year early.  That's the design of the contract, and it makes it possible for teams like us to keep their star players.  If he hadn't signed that extension and was heading into FA this summer, we'd be ****ed.

 

What do you guys think the market is for players in his situation?  Over the next few years every single one of these young guys coming up on their second extensions who are eligible for a DPVE are going to sign one.

[Hersh]

That is how franchises stay mediocre. There are very few players actually worth these contracts. 

John Wall gets blamed cause if you signed one of these contracts, you should be a player that elevates your team. He’s not exactly doing that. 

 

No, this isn’t to say anyone is blaming Wall more than EG, Ted or Brooks. This just comes with the territory of being the number one player on a 12-20 team that has never been to a conference finals and is plagued by dysfunction.

 

 

[Renegade7]

To be fair, NBA CBA is a mess, I hate it more then what's happenings with QBs in the NFL and contracts they are getting. 

 

If it was easier to pay players what they were worth from one season to the next, this would be a different conversation. But that's just not how it works, that's a don't hate the playa hate the game counter-point right there.  I'm as hard on Otto as I am because he's getting max, you need players like him, just not for that cap hit.  Coupling that with Ian's contract is why we couldn't sign a third all-star even if someone else did want to sign here.

 

Every time I think of the trade Wall talk, I can't help but come back to how many times he's said he wants to be here.  What current All Stars want to play for the Wizards right now? I take Beal's leaving talk seriously, getting rid of Wall will pretty much guarantee it.

[Hersh]

24 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

To be fair, NBA CBA is a mess, I hate it more then what's happenings with QBs in the NFL and contracts they are getting. 

 

If it was easier to pay players what they were worth from one season to the next, this would be a different conversation. But that's just not how it works, that's a don't hate the playa hate the game counter-point right there.  I'm as hard on Otto as I am because he's getting max, you need players like him, just not for that cap hit.  Coupling that with Ian's contract is why we couldn't sign a third all-star even if someone else did want to sign here.

 

Every time I think of the trade Wall talk, I can't help but come back to how many times he's said he wants to be here.  What current All Stars want to play for the Wizards right now? I take Beal's leaving talk seriously, getting rid of Wall will pretty much guarantee it.

 

I don’t ever blame a player for getting the contract. EG is the true disaster here. 

 

 

[Chachie]

24 minutes ago, Hersh said:

 

I don’t ever blame a player for getting the contract. EG is the true disaster here. 

 

 

 

 

I agree but I can also envision a scenario where we'd have trashed him out for letting JW get away. (Not that I'm defending Ernie in the big picture. Just mentioning how hard it is to keep a fan base happy.)

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, Chachie said:

 

 

I agree but I can also envision a scenario where we'd have trashed him out for letting JW get away. (Not that I'm defending Ernie in the big picture. Just mentioning how hard it is to keep a fan base happy.)

 

I'd like to know how many people saying Wall shouldn't of gotten that extension are saying so out of hindsight. 

 

Without a franchise tag like NFL has, I know I couldn't then say no nor say we shouldn't of done it now.  My issue with him is this particular season more then any, though its not just that he's having more mentally out of it games then I'm used to, the whole team is. 

 

12-20 right now in this conference is inexcusable.  There is something so terribly wrong here that Wall alone can't fix, even an MVP season won't hide the truth.

[Kosher Ham]

@Renegade7 , 

I stated that Wall wasn't worth a max at the time. I get your point of view, but I also agree that very few players in any league deserve those type of contracts. 

 

He is an all star... playing in the East. Out west, he might have made two.  

 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

@Renegade7 , 

I stated that Wall wasn't worth a max at the time. I get your point of view, but I also agree that very few players in any league deserve those type of contracts. 

 

He is an all star... playing in the East. Out west, he might have made two.  

 

 

More then fair, I can only dream what he would've looked like drafted by the Spurs.  Some players get contract based on the threat of losing them more then they deserve them, I hate that.  Are there rules on the line in the sand regarding performance based contracts? 

 

I've seen Wall go psycho for psycho with goes like Westbrook, but to me Westbrook is better because he's psycho pretty much every game.  You're athleticism doesn't make you better if you don't use it.  Our player development is trash, we put our prototype in the dishwasher. 

 

Begs the question...do Beal and Wall work on threes together?  I'd like to know, I still see the talking game stuff on the bench even when they are losing.

[Hersh]

1 hour ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I'd like to know how many people saying Wall shouldn't of gotten that extension are saying so out of hindsight. 

 

Without a franchise tag like NFL has, I know I couldn't then say no nor say we shouldn't of done it now.  My issue with him is this particular season more then any, though its not just that he's having more mentally out of it games then I'm used to, the whole team is. 

 

12-20 right now in this conference is inexcusable.  There is something so terribly wrong here that Wall alone can't fix, even an MVP season won't hide the truth.

 

That’s fair. The thing with Walls contract to me is if you aren’t competing for a championship after getting to the second round a few times, it’s time to change course. A team certainly shouldn’t have a contract like that about to kick in when they’ve been regressing the last season and a half.

[Gamebreaker]

On 12/19/2018 at 7:10 AM, Sticksboi05 said:

My "will not watch again until Ernie is fired" decision is one of the best decisions of 2018. I can only hope some of you do the same and increase your quality of life. This moribund franchise does not deserve any support. It's okay to be bad, but for a purpose - this is another loop of trade assets in desperation to at best lose in the first round. Lather. Rinse. Repeat. I'll pass. #FIREERNIE

 

I've been in this camp since last season. I refuse to watch a single minute of this team until Ernie is no longer ruining it.