Predicto's chronolgy of the Obama Birth Certificate controversy.

[Nerm]

I find this issue to be fascinating, from a psychological perspective. I have not read the entire thread, but there is no question in my mind that Obama is a US citizen. However, I have never actually met a person that questions this. I know a lot of conservatives, but no one has brought this up in conversation with me.

I read polls that say half of republicans question this… however, this seems to be an infatuation of the left. It is as if the left wants to prove to itself that people that disagree with them are delusional.

I’m thinking there are two things in play here. Most people don’t know where most people are born. I don’t know where Bush, Regan, Kerry, Carter, Nixon, etc, were born. I heard that McCain was born in international waters, but I’m not sure if that is true.

The other thing is that a lot of people don’t trust “the other side”. For progressives trying to promote this story… how many of the people that don’t think Obama is a US citizen do you think agree with his politics? Do you think there is a large group of people who say, “He is doing a great job, I like how he thinks on spending and foreign policy… it’s a shame he isn’t an American,”

This story has no effect except to make people feel smarter than the other side. It’s the same thing as democrats thinking that Bush was “in on” the 9/11 attacks. You believe it because you hate the other side. It doesn’t actually affect your opinion of the other side.

[Bang]

Five responses since the Trump post and one cracks a joke, 1 claims it's untrue but offers no evidence and 3 just belittle the opinion w/o any evidence.

I concede that you birther haters are probably right on this one - I'm not a birther, though I do wonder why he won't actually make the darn thing public - but can someone respond with evidence of why Trump's actually wrong? That makes it easier to learn.

Only one of us made a joke?

this whole thread is a joke.

Birther hysteria is a joke.

Donald Trump running for President is a joke.

~Bang

[aREDSKIN]

He DID make it public. He produced an official State of Hawaii Birth Certificate and made it public. The exact same one that everyone born in Hawaii gets. None of these "skeptics" went to see it. The Republican Governor of Hawaii said it was real, and there is zero reason to think it is fake.

Read the damn original post.

And there are people who knew Baby Obama in Hawaii - including the current Governor of Hawaii who was a friend of Obama's parents.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2010/12/hawaii-governor-wants-to-prove-obama-was-born-there/1

Of course, its not that surprising that there aren't a huge number of people in Hawaii that remember Obama as a kid, because Obama's mom got remarried and moved to Indonesia when Obama was only 5 years old, and they lived there for years - not Hawaii.

We make fun of this because only really, really stupid people believe it (or people who are too lazy to try and find out the truth, which isn't hidden at all). Trump is betting that the people who already hate Obama have no incentive to investigate the truth.

Anyone who uses Ambercrombie as a legitimate no dog in the fight witness is certifiable IMO. Ambercrombie is a LOON. Additionally, your assertion regarding Obama's "he produced an official State of Hawaii Birth Certificate" is just false. HDOH offered what the state issues for those who have lost their "original "birth certificates". The HDOH issued a "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH" gov't speak for a "verified", but truncated, copy of the 'ORIGINAL". It's not a copy of the original "long form hospital issued birth certificate". The HDOH needs & requires 'DOCUMENTATION" to verify any info contained in the state issued COLB. Many want Obama to show to the world this 'ORIGINAL" documentation, which the HDOH has already claimed to have & used in issuing the COLB, to the public. I have no idea where he was born and neither does anyone else in this thread. They conjecture but that's all they can do. Obama just needs to allow the HDOH to release his "original" documentation used in issuing the COLB. IMO either there is none or there is embarrassing info contained within it. Just speculation on my part but this entire episode just doesn't make sense. In this case it makes sense to use the old gov't adage "trust but verify" because the gov't has never lied to you before, has it??

[TheGoodBits]

Found one!

[techboy]

Let's hear how Donald Trump is some birther hack now.

Okay.

Donald Trump is some birther hack now.

How's that?

P.S. So that this is not seen as an unsupported attack, for evidence, see every thread on this topic on this board.

[Thiebear]

If Al Franken can win and seems to be doing a pretty good job.

Who are we to belittle anyone running at this point.

No way President Obama is in office this long without the biggest secret in the last 40 years coming to light.

This is above the 18minutes.

This is above Iran Contra

This is easily up there with the missing WMD.

He was elected and is not a citizen of the US? That moves him 4 spots up the Greatest of All time just on that premise alone.

Fing Brilliant!

[Dan T.]

Trump... What a moron.

BTW, keep chasing that bone aRedskin. You'll catch it soon enough.

[Bang]

Anyone who uses Ambercrombie as a legitimate no dog in the fight witness is certifiable IMO. Ambercrombie is a LOON. Additionally, your assertion regarding Obama's "he produced an official State of Hawaii Birth Certificate" is just false. HDOH offered what the state issues for those who have lost their "original "birth certificates". The HDOH issued a "CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH" gov't speak for a "verified", but truncated, copy of the 'ORIGINAL". It's not a copy of the original "long form hospital issued birth certificate". The HDOH needs & requires 'DOCUMENTATION" to verify any info contained in the state issued COLB. Many want Obama to show to the world this 'ORIGINAL" documentation, which the HDOH has already claimed to have & used in issuing the COLB, to the public. I have no idea where he was born and neither does anyone else in this thread. They conjecture but that's all they can do. Obama just needs to allow the HDOH to release his "original" documentation used in issuing the COLB. IMO either there is none or there is embarrassing info contained within it. Just speculation on my part but this entire episode just doesn't make sense. In this case it makes sense to use the old gov't adage "trust but verify" because the gov't has never lied to you before, has it??

I'm sorry, but

Get ****ing real.

~Bang

[Burgold]

I'm sorry, but

Get ****ing real.

~Bang

You know from a pure extistentionalist point of view I agree with aREDSKIN. Afterall, I have no absolute proof Obama even exists.

I do like how he says that the document is a :""verified", but truncated, copy of the 'ORIGINAL", but then argues that we must ""trust but verify" because the gov't has never lied to you before, has it??" Mind you, the verification he claims he would accept is not the verification he was given, but this long form BC. OF course, that would have to be provided by the government and since the government is known to lie, we can't trust that either. It's an incredibly circular and impossible argument.

The government must provide proof! The government lies. You can't trust the government! Why is the government not verifying this document. The document it uses to verify isn't verification!

AAAAaaaaah!

[greenspandan]

man, some forms of stupid just won't quit.

i sincerely hope morons on the right continue to pursue this crusade. nothing warms my heart like the ignorant exposing themselves for what they are.

[Bang]

You know from a pure extistentionalist point of view I agree with aREDSKIN. Afterall, I have no absolute proof Obama even exists.

I do like how he says that the document is a :""verified", but truncated, copy of the 'ORIGINAL", but then argues that we must ""trust but verify" because the gov't has never lied to you before, has it??" Mind you, the verification he claims he would accept is not the verification he was given, but this long form BC. OF course, that would have to be provided by the government and since the government is known to lie, we can't trust that either. It's an incredibly circular and impossible argument.

The government must provide proof! The government lies. You can't trust the government! Why is the government not verifying this document. The document it uses to verify isn't verification!

AAAAaaaaah!

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

I've never orbited the earth in space,,, so it's entirely possible that the world is flat.

~Bang

[Burgold]

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

I've never orbited the earth in space,,, so the earth has a possibility of being flat.

~Bang

Exactly correct. I've never touched the Sun nor have we ever sent anything to the Sun and back. I have no proof that the Sun is hot.

[aREDSKIN]

You know from a pure extistentionalist point of view I agree with aREDSKIN. Afterall, I have no absolute proof Obama even exists.

I do like how he says that the document is a :""verified", but truncated, copy of the 'ORIGINAL", but then argues that we must ""trust but verify" because the gov't has never lied to you before, has it??" Mind you, the verification he claims he would accept is not the verification he was given, but this long form BC. OF course, that would have to be provided by the government and since the government is known to lie, we can't trust that either. It's an incredibly circular and impossible argument.

The government must provide proof! The government lies. You can't trust the government! Why is the government not verifying this document. The document it uses to verify isn't verification!

AAAAaaaaah!

And I'm sure if the shoe were on the other political foot your position would be exactly opposite of what it is now.

[Bang]

I don't even know if YOU are real Burgold. In fact, the only thing I know is real is that I'm aware of something, and whether or not that's a dream, or a computer simulation being run in a lab 200 years in the future, or it's real life, i really don't know.

I demand proof of reality.

~Bang (I think)

[Burgold]

And I'm sure if the shoe were on the other political foot your position would be exactly opposite of what it is now.

I really don't think so. There aren't too many conspiracies that I buy into. I believe that Bush and co. thought Sadam was a danger and had weapons. I don't think we were involved in 9/11. I'm pretty sure we did land a man on the moon. I think Paul McCartney is alive and wasn't replaced in 1968. I don't think the Republican Party rewrote the computer programs for electronic voting despite the manufacturer's guarentee that Bush would win Florida.

I tend to when presented with reasonable evidence or a preponderance of it... listen. You have to work very hard and do a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that Obama could have pulled off this con and that so many including the opposition party would be complicit. Between the evidence and common sense, I just can't buy into it on any level.

---------- Post added March-18th-2011 at 10:02 AM ----------

I don't even know if YOU are real Burgold. In fact, the only thing I know is real is that I'm aware of something, and whether or not that's a dream, or a computer simulation being run in a lab 200 years in the future, or it's real life, i really don't know.

I demand proof of reality.

~Bang (I think)

I think that the only thing that we can be sure of that isn't real are roaches. Nothing can be that indestructible, persistant. Think of it how could a creature that small be immune to poison, radiation, being smacked by things thousands of times its own mass. ****roaches are a mass delusion and manifestation of some shared hysteria.

[Bang]

And I'm sure if the shoe were on the other political foot your position would be exactly opposite of what it is now.

So is the only reason you believe this fairy tale because of your political lean?

If Obama was a republican, you say that you'd be on the other side laughing at liberals who question where he was born?

~Bang

[Dan T.]

^ A beautiful voice of reason, Burgold. Bravo. I'll be interested to read any rebuttal.

[Corcaigh]

And I'm sure if the shoe were on the other political foot your position would be exactly opposite of what it is now.

Do you believe any of the stories about the Clinton family, and the accusations of murder and illegal business dealings?

If so, do you think they would have allowed Obama to get the nomination (and as a result the Presidency in all probability) if there was a shred of evidence to support the birther claims?

---------- Post added March-18th-2011 at 10:09 AM ----------

I don't even know if YOU are real Burgold.

I know for a fact Burgold isn't real. I've heard him on NPR. We know NPR are liars, ergo Burgold does not really exist.

[Burgold]

[quote name=Corcaigh;8206029

I know for a fact Burgold isn't real. I've heard him on NPR. We know NPR are liars' date=' ergo Burgold does not really exist.[/quote]

Strangely, I think that makes sense. Uh oh.

-Poof!

[Larry]

And I'm sure if the shoe were on the other political foot your position would be exactly opposite of what it is now.

You know that, of course, because you know that if the shoe were on the other political foot, that your position would be exactly the opposite, right?

How many posts have you made, complaining about the fact that John McCain wasn't born in the US?

(He wasn't, you know. Nor was he born on a US military base, either. At the time of his birth, the base his parents lived at didn't have a hospital, so all military births went to the Panamanian hospital in the nearby town.)

We had two candidates for President in the last election. One of them has publicly furnished state-issued, legally-admissible-in-court, certified proof that he was born in the US. One of them wasn't. But the one you're chasing? The Democrat.

[China]

I don't even know if YOU are real Burgold. In fact, the only thing I know is real is that I'm aware of something, and whether or not that's a dream, or a computer simulation being run in a lab 200 years in the future, or it's real life, i really don't know.

I demand proof of reality.

~Bang (I think)

[First Man:] I think, I think I am, therefore I am, I think.

[Establishment:] Of course you are my bright little star,

I've miles

And miles

Of files

Pretty files of your forefather's fruit

and now to suit our

great computer,

You're magnetic ink.

[First Man:] I'm more than that, I know I am, at least, I think I must be.

[inner Man:] There you go man, keep as cool as you can.

Face piles

And piles

Of trials

With smiles.

It riles them to believe

that you perceive

the web they weave

And keep on thinking free.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I've tracked this as much as anyone.

The favorite aspect of it for me is how it went from "Where is the Birth Certificate?" to the "De Vattel two citizen parents" argument. At this point, only the fringe of Birthers are still arguing about a Kenyan birth. Most have jumped on the De Vattel bandwagon.

And I find that hysterical, because not one Birther knew about that definition until some time in 2009 but now act like it was the issue all along. They also like to pretend that we all studied De Vattel in fourth grade.

I went to law school. I had never heard of De Vattel until last year,

[AsburySkinsFan]

though I do wonder why he won't actually make the darn thing public

No you don't wonder this, you and every birther clown has been told repeatedly why, so stop this whole "I'm just curious" crap because it's not convincing anyone.

[Corcaigh]

And I find that hysterical' date=' because not one Birther knew about that definition until some time in 2009 but now act like it was the issue all along. [/quote']

I'd have more respect for them if they just came out and said they hate ******s and don't want one to be President.

[techboy]

You know from a pure extistentionalist point of view I agree with aREDSKIN. Afterall, I have no absolute proof Obama even exists.

There's a great Monty Python sketch in this (along the lines of philosopher soccer). It's a shame they are no longer active.