TK

WP: Kirk Cousins breaks his silence after Redskins trade for Alex Smith

Recommended Posts

37 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Speaking of silly, when you say there is only a 3 year difference in order to minimize their age difference -- making Alex younger comes off intentional to fit a point.  Comes off as spin on your end -- which to me is a theme here.  

 

 

Again. This isn't Kirk versus Alex.  This is Alex versus a rookie QB or a FA QB.

 

 

All I say about this is you missed my point.  But since this part isn't relevant to the bottom line, I'll just skip this aside from saying neither one of us knows squat about ANY QB as to whether they lose it some when they hit 36 or not.  But I am not exactly making a wild point here -- but again its irrelevant to this debate so I don't want to get lost in the woods with this point. 

 

 

I've never been a fan of trading high draft picks for veterans.  That's not some offbeat obscure take which is endemic to battered Redskins fans.  Plenty adopt that approach and philosophy.  If that's not your thing.  That's cool.  To each their own.  My memory is pretty good.  I can remember the sentiment behind a lot of these trades over the years.    The idea that this time its different.  This time its smart.  Yep, this isn't the first rodeo with that narrative.  It's practically a mantra with each deal.  If it all feels fresh and new to you, that's cool.   It doesn't to me.   You don't have to go back to 2002 for these trades.  We've had these type trades under almost every head coach under Danny's reign.  If this trade using a high pick for a veteran ends up a good trade -- it would be the first for this organization under Dan.  Unless, there is one eons back that I am forgetting?  If there is one I am forgetting, let me know.

 

 You've been bitter at Kirk for months.  

 

I am not bitter about the trade.  I am bitter about the decision making of the FO in general.  This is just another example of it.  Back to this trade, I just think its short sighted unless we have one heck of a run this year or next.  I'll feel better about the trade if they sign some serious weapons to help Alex.  This can't be a "meh" off season.  I don't want to lose 4 marquee FAs and sign lets say Albert Wilson and a couple of Jags and say mission accomplished.  If they are going to play a win now hand -- play it to the hilt IMO.  Upgrade the roster.

 

If certain people stay consistent with their beliefs about what a QB means to wins and loses, it will likely turn nasty against Alex too.  You already see some of it from the Chief fans who gleefully joined the board to warn us about him.   I'll bet money that I'll be one of the biggest Alex Smith backers on the board -- because my belief about QBs is that they are a key cog but W-Ls are about the whole soup.   

 

I discussed this with you weeks before the trade happened.  And this scenario is even worst than how I saw it going down back then.   Back then, I figured they'd still have a shot to get trade capital for Kirk and we wouldn't be actually losing one of our key players in a trade.  I just thought we'd be losing a draft pick.    This is much worse than what I envisioned. 

 

I don't buy that being a Redskins fan is about swearing to Bruce Allen like its the Redskins fan version of the Pledge of Allegiance. To me he's just as disposable as Vinny was.    If he does something I like -- for example signing Zach Brown, I sing his praises for it.  I wanted Zach Brown before FA last year.  Bruce signs Zach.  I like it. :)   I said I don't want to trade for Alex Smith.  Bruce trades for Alex Smith.  I don't like it.  It's that simple.;)

 

 

 Based on your comments, I think I might actually like Alex Smith more than you do, ironically.  He's for a long time being one of the people I've liked the most in the NFL.  Real interesting guy if you delve into him.    I am jazzed that he's here.  But I'd grade the transaction an F.  I am not spinning it and downplaying the compensation.  The way I see it is they might have squandered an opportunity to get a first rounder for Kirk in a trade because of the early timing of the trade.  To me an early third round pick is a big deal.  So is Fuller. 

 

I can just focus on Alex Smith and how much I like the dude and ignore it all.  But that's not how I roll with this stuff.  I explained the last time I did that was the McNabb trade.  I am not doing it again.  If you want to bask in the trade and focusing on the other stuff spoils the fun.  Again, I can relate.  I've done it.  You can describe the feeling anyway you want -- you aren't mired in the past, excited about the future, etc.  That's cool.  I get it. :)  I don't mean it sarcastically.  I've done what you are doing for other trades.   So it would be hypocritical of me to give you a hard time for it. 

 

 

How would that be even possible considering in the same post, you say that people are mired in the past (stuck in 2002?) ...we are battered...we aren't seeing this with the freshness and enthusiasm that you have for our regime which is quite different from previous regimes -- so how is it possible that they'd make a stupid impulsive trade?  Isn't that about being mired in the past? Why worry they'd make a dumb impulsive trade and get it wrong in the draft?    

 

 

Maybe.  But Alex came at a price.  I never said Foles -- I would hate that too.  Again I don't want to trade assets for a veteran QB let alone lose the potential of gaining assets for our QB.  For that reason I gave the trade an F.   

 

To me it comes down to this:

 

Does it bother you what we gave up for Alex Smith?  Your answer is heck no.  My answer is heck yes.

 

Does it bother you that the way the trade happened makes the odds of getting serious compensation for Kirk about zero?  Your answer is heck no.

 

My answer is heck yes.  And heck yes doesn't sum it up for me.   Guys like Belichick and Reid who fleeced other teams for much bigger compensation for lesser QBs must think our FO are the biggest boobs on the planet to lose Kirk for a ham sandwich. 

 

 

 

 

I think I just read War And Peace.  Will read again right before I go to bed.  😐

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  Got off work this evening, popped in Thor Ragnarok on dvd, and took a break from all the crap going on, or not going on.

 

 I was fully expecting to get on ES and see that Cousins has officially gone to another team; dammit!

 

 But I had a thought creep into my head; Cousins' agent and maybe Cousins as well, making these statements about not signing with a team who is negotiating with Washington or something to that extent, can very well damage his chances with serious FOs who are looking to secure their QB spot.

 

Think about it; his agent seemingly coming off like Cousins is the greatest thing since sliced bread is bad enough, but all of these teams are looking at how his agent is carrying on about this, and they could very well say to themselves 'if he's acting like this now, whats to prevent him from pulling some other stunt later down the line'?  It can be a huge turn-off to teams. The ones who are looking to build a serious team doesn't want anything resembling a conflict between FO and a player.

 

Set aside his skills on-field, look at the damn circus going on about it? How his agent, and himself, are conducting themselves during this; he could stipulate himself right out of a job, where he would end up signing with a team going nowhere because other teams don't want the chance of future headaches on their team.

 

Honestly, I hope it happens; I hope teams say thanks but no thanks,. and some will; then he has to settle  for signing somewhere at a substantially lower amount. He already said he would just to win, but he may not have that option.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I put that mostly on Bruce for destroying the relationship.  And some on Kirk for being a bit of a thin skinned ninny.  

 

This pretty much mirrors my thoughts exactly. Bruce and Kirk's personalities and needs were a match made in hell. Bruce is an overbearing ass politician who always has to "win" and always starts contract negotiations with lowball offers and Kirk sounds like something of a thin skinned kid who gets upset and insulted easily and can't get over things like that and move on in a business-like manner. So we end up with this situation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I was fully expecting to get on ES and see that Cousins has officially gone to another team; dammit!

 

 

Nothing could be better for the Skins.  We're three weeks from the start of free agency so the compensation we get without even having to franchise him could be pretty high

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t doubt that Kirk is put off by how Allen’s handled things, but I don’t think that’s the entire story.  Kirk is a dorky dude that reads a ton and seeks out successful folks to be mentored by.  He also still has immense respect as well as a relationship with Shanahan.  It’s highly likely that the folks he respects and is influenced by play a role in where his head is at in regards to Bruce.  In that does he really want to tie his career to a Bruce Allen led FO, given the choice.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, skins island connection said:

Honestly, I hope it happens; I hope teams say thanks but no thanks,. and some will; then he has to settle  for signing somewhere at a substantially lower amount. He already said he would just to win, but he may not have that option.

 

He's made so much money the last few years he doesn't care. He's getting the house. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Speaking of silly, when you say there is only a 3 year difference in order to minimize their age difference -- making Alex younger comes off intentional to fit a point.  Comes off as spin on your end -- which to me is a theme here.  

 

 

Again. This isn't Kirk versus Alex.  This is Alex versus a rookie QB or a FA QB.

 

you can’t have a discussion about things like age with me and ignore all of the other older QBs in the league today that no one thinks are too old. Rules are rules, if 34 is too old to be a QB to rely on for three seasons then what the hell are the other teams in the league doing? Alex is the 10th oldest starting QB in the NFL today, his age is not an issue because no NFL team thinks that’s too old to be a starting QB today. Unless you can prove that all of these other teams are just stupid to play a guy older then Alex Smith his age is irrelevant

 

 

Quote

 

I've never been a fan of trading high draft picks for veterans.  That's not some offbeat obscure take which is endemic to battered Redskins fans.  Plenty adopt that approach and philosophy.  If that's not your thing.  That's cool.  To each their own.  My memory is pretty good.  I can remember the sentiment behind a lot of these trades over the years.    The idea that this time its different.  This time its smart.  Yep, this isn't the first rodeo with that narrative.  It's practically a mantra with each deal.  If it all feels fresh and new to you, that's cool.   It doesn't to me.   You don't have to go back to 2002 for these trades.  We've had these type trades under almost every head coach under Danny's reign.  If this trade using a high pick for a veteran ends up a good trade -- it would be the first for this organization under Dan.  Unless, there is one eons back that I am forgetting?  If there is one I am forgetting, let me know.

 

It’s confusing to me how you come up with these hot takes you've been posting conversating with me today. Let me try and get to the bottom of it

 

1. Trading “high” round draft picks. What constitutes a “high” draft pick to you? There are seven rounds to a draft. So clearly you think that a third round pick is a high round draft pick. Truth is a third round pick is a middle round pick. It’s not a high round draft pick like a first or second round pick. Those are high round picks, they aren’t the same.

 

2. You say you know the teams past and say the arguement is Alex vs. a draft pick above. Do you recall what we surrendered the last time we took a first round QB? Knowing your history you know it cost them three years of first round picks. And your against trading picks so you say but you think there is an argument to be made for drafting a QB to replace Kirk this season?  How at pick 13 with no less then 

 

Browns

Broncos

Jets

Giants

Dolphins

Bengals 

 

all picking in front of the team who all need a QB can anyone realistically think that drafting a QB is an option for the team?

 

How many good starting QBs are usually in an average draft? Two. Even in the very best drafts ever

 

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/224037448/quarterback-draft-classes-top-5-nfl-history

 

Expecting that four guys are good is the top mark for a given class. Which means thinking picking at 13 this year can get us a good QB is probably wishful thinking and if forced to go that direction for a QB the Redskins would be forced to do another Griffin type deal to get someone this year. If someone is against trading picks then going with a rookie pick as the solution to post Kirk this draft means it will cost them a ton of picks and is a bad idea

 

3. Do you understand compensatory picks and how they work? If so you know that next year if the Redskins had gone with a free agent QB as the post Kirk answer as you mentioned above that would mean the Redskins would not be getting a third round compensatory pick next year when they lose Kirk. Compensatory picks are free and extra picks but they have rules to them. One such rule is that if a team loses a guy (Kirk) and replaces him with a free agent (take your pick of them) they will not get a free compensatory pick. However if a team loses a player (Kirk) in free agency and replaces the player through a trade (Alex) then the team that lost the player will get a free pick for him. The only way the Redskins could guarantee they got that free third round pick was to trade for a QB so they did. If your saying we traded a third round pick and you don’t like that rejoice in knowing we get a free third round pick next year back. Bringing in any of the free agent QBs to replace Kirk would have eliminated that for them which is why it makes so much sense what they did. 

 

And let’s be clear, the team didn’t just go get anybody to replace Kirk, they got a good QB to replace Kirk.

 

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2018/02/15/ross-tucker-raves-about-alex-smith-trade/

 

I listen to Ross Tucker every week and he’s a former Redskin player and an analyst that knows his stuff. That’s a real good read on how improbable and good of a job the front office did here. They replace a good QB with another good QB, they get the draft pick given up to get the new good QB back in a years time, and all it cost them was a cornerback. In the NFL transitions like this hardly ever if ever happen.

 

 

Quote

 

 You've been bitter at Kirk for months.  

 

While of course I disagree with this hot take let me say this. Go back and read what I write before saying that. 

 

If I hated Kirk Cousins would I call him over and over again a “good” QB like I do?

 

My feeling about Kirk is this. I think he played PC games for his own benefit that cost my team a chance to trade him when they could have. Kirk pulled the wool over everyone’s eyes including his teammates (read the things Chris Thompson said), the front office, and the fans. Had Kirk been a stand up guy he would have done what Jimmy G did for the Patriots when he and his agent told them he was leaving or wanted top money to stay early enough so the Patriots could get something back for him. Kirk didn’t do that for the Redskins.

 

Do I think Kirk is a good QB? Yes I do.

 

Do I think Kirk went into business for himself and screwed everyone involved with his words? Yes I do. I can’t see how any one can view this differently knowing what he said and how other guys in the same situation act differently

 

 

Quote

 

I don't buy that being a Redskins fan is about swearing to Bruce Allen like its the Redskins fan version of the Pledge of Allegiance

 

In no way do I support Bruce Allen and I think he’s replaceable as well. However I do believe the entire front office is getting a bad rep when it’s not completely deserved.

 

Bruce should have been fired when he couldn’t learn his QBs first name let’s be honest. I’m no fan of him but what do you expect from a front office?

 

Drafts - Outside of the lone 2016 Scot draft imo the drafts in 14, 15, and 17 were very good

 

Budget - Front office continues to put competitive teams on the field year over year and enter each offseason with money to spend. We haven’t been in cap hell for a while

 

Competitive - This past December was the first December since 2014 where the games played didn’t matter

 

My point is that not all things this front office does is crap like most people say around here. Call a spade a spade, could any other GM do this? Probably. But it doesn’t mean those things mean nothing.

 

 

 

Quote

 

 Based on your comments, I think I might actually like Alex Smith more than you do, ironically.  He's for a long time being one of the people I've liked the most in the NFL.  Real interesting guy if you delve into him.    I am jazzed that he's here. 

 

You might idk. Thing I like about Smith is he made sense in the transitional sense to me. He was cheap, he’s a good QB, the cost was minor to me because if you said say the Jets could get Alex Smith for a slot corner you and I both know they would snap take that deal so why is that any different for us? 

 

The things I read about him I like. He has a true non profit that really helps people. Most non profits hold back 75% of the money they bring in for operating costs. Alex runs one that holds back less then 50%. 

 

His teammates love him, he’s got a great pedigree being a number one overall pick, is incredibly intelligent, can make off schedule plays, protects the football, etc. 

 

But I’m not the founding member of his fan club by any means. He made sense for this team and I like that.

 

 

Quote

But I'd grade the transaction an F.  I am not spinning it and downplaying the compensation.  The way I see it is they might have squandered an opportunity to get a first rounder for Kirk in a trade because of the early timing of the trade.  To me an early third round pick is a big deal.  So is Fuller. 

 

They didnt squander the chance to trade Kirk this offseason they did that during the season because they believed he wanted to stay. I can give them a pass on that. Unless they knew he was going to not sign and did nothing which I’ve never seen a single report saying. 

 

We werent getting a first round pick for him during this offseason. They turned down three potential offers for him last draft because they wanted to keep him and thought it would get done. 

 

Losing fuller sucked but again most every team would trade a corner for a good QB and like it or not the third comes back to them next season. If this trade is an F to you then gosh how would you rank it against the TJ Duckett trade? Is there worse then a F grade?

 

 

Quote

 

To me it comes down to this:

 

Does it bother you what we gave up for Alex Smith?  Your answer is heck no.  My answer is heck yes.

 

Does it bother you that the way the trade happened makes the odds of getting serious compensation for Kirk about zero?  Your answer is heck no.

 

My answer is heck yes.  And heck yes doesn't sum it up for me.   Guys like Belichick and Reid who fleeced other teams for much bigger compensation for lesser QBs must think our FO are the biggest boobs on the planet to lose Kirk for a ham sandwich. 

 

The time to move Kirk for anything passed us by in October 2017. That’s how I viewed this the whole time. I believe that the team honestly believed they would sign him. Kirk made them think that. Listen to the interviews Kirk gave with Peter King when he talked about the great QBs never leaving their teams and how that was what he believed for himself. Kirk said all the right things. If that makes the front office fools for believing he was gonna sign then they are fools but I don’t think anyone last year was screaming to trade Kirk while they could.

 

As for Belichick I do wonder if they made the right move trading away Jimmy G. When ever Brady lets Father Time catch up to him will they look back and think damn we shouldn’t have done that? Depends on if Bill stays but that could come back and haunt them as they enter life post Brady

 

And as for Reid I do think he’s a year too soon letting Smith go and going with Mahomes. If I’m right and they fall off a 10 win season and win only 6 games because Pat wasn’t ready that will make him look bad. I’m not sold on Mahomes yet but I understand why they let Smith go, they were in cap hell and needed to get out of it. 

 

Both of those examples you gave have me questioning them at the moment.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob and weave that was an awesome post and reflects how I feel .

 

I think one thing that is missed when the stories started coming out after Scot left that Kirk was not going to sign a deal as long as Bruce was here and the trade winds were at there strongest, Kirk went to speak directly with Dan and from reports he came away with the assurance the Redskins saw him as the future of the franchise and both sides wanted to make a deal ... it was Kirks side that did not even enter into negotiations ... speak all you want about the team low balling him but you cannot pay the asking price for a car if the guy never tells you what that price is . This was very disingenuous of Kirk and it irritates me that people do not see there is blame on both sides . 

 

SIP.  said wait until guys like Trent, Reed and Ryan start forcing their way out ... but there has never been any indication these guys are unhappy - but hey let’s throw that out there anyway - just like JLC randomly threw out Josh Norman hated being here and wanted out because he hated Bruce Allen - and that was lapped up - and will be repeated as gospel in months to come despite the fact J P Finnly who actullaly talked to Josh totally debunked the story 

 

Belive it or not Some  players seem to have very good relationships with the team - listen to how Junior Gallete talks of his treatment with the team how the team stood by him following his injuries.  Junior is a good player and he will get paid this offseason .. I hope he comes back. Look how Jackson spoke of the team after he left .

 

People have this narrative that Bruce Allen is an idiot and  everything he does is wrong . But as bob said we went from one good QB to another and gave up a slot CB who featured in one of the worst defences statistically in the league last year . Had anyone not named Bruce Allen pulled thus move off  ( say a a Scot Mcloghlan) and it would be a great move . People need to step away from their prejudices and see a bigger picture sometimes ... 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's just Franchise Tag cousin's and watch the NFL go into massive meltdown. He is our player until we don't want him to be, there is nothing wrong with Allen saying that cousin's and Smith will fight it out to be the starter or even better pull out of the Smith trade and keep Cousin's. We need to put our foot down with Cousin's and show him that he's not leaving for nothing. They can go and cry to Goodell all they want but he's a Washington Redskins player UNTIL we say he can go.

 

P.S.   I like Smith was just saying what the Redskins can do with Cousin's. 

 

Come On Allen show the NFL that youve got some ********.

 

HTTR 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, skins island connection said:

  

 

Think about it; his agent seemingly coming off like Cousins is the greatest thing since sliced bread is bad enough, but all of these teams are looking at how his agent is carrying on about this, and they could very well say to themselves 'if he's acting like this now, whats to prevent him from pulling some other stunt later down the line'?  It can be a huge turn-off to teams. The ones who are looking to build a serious team doesn't want anything resembling a conflict between FO and a player.

 

Set aside his skills on-field, look at the damn circus going on about it? How his agent, and himself, are conducting themselves during this; he could stipulate himself right out of a job, where he would end up signing with a team going nowhere because other teams don't want the chance of future headaches on their team.

 

Honestly, I hope it happens; I hope teams say thanks but no thanks,. and some will; then he has to settle  for signing somewhere at a substantially lower amount. He already said he would just to win, but he may not have that option.

 

I have no idea how you can blame Kirk's agent in any way.  He is doing his job. And he did it beautifully.  He milked the Redskins into paying way more than they wanted to for 2 straight seasons, now he has a top 10-12 QB hitting the opening market, free to sign to wherever he wants which was the goal all along.   

 

He never said Kirk was the greatest thing since sliced bread.  He simply pointed out that his QB is one of the top 12 QBs in the world.  He knows there is huge demand for a guy like that and he is simply maximizing on his opportunity. This is America, sometimes you get to do stuff like this here. 

 

And there's not a damned thing wrong with it.

Edited by Darrell Green Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said:

I think I just read War And Peace.  Will read again right before I go to bed.  😐

 

thanks for reading it all. :)  As for the length, take a look at how long the post I responded to was which was directed at me. So surprised I am the one who gets made fun of for the length.  I got another real long one directed at me.  For the interested viewers, I'll try to work my next response to be even more succinct.  Here goes.  ;)

 

8 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

you can’t have a discussion about things like age with me and ignore all of the other older QBs in the league today that no one thinks are too old.

 

As I said in my other post, you missed my point on it.  You are doubling down on it here. I'll play a little again but not after this post.  People around the league citing that as the main difference between the two is age and it matters apparently don't know what they are talking about.  Ditto Andy Reid who cited Alex's age for the prime reason why he traded for the younger QB in the draft. Check it out on Youtube.  But to put this to rest.   Alex is practically a Spring chicken, almost the same age as Kirk. We can make Alex 33.  Kirk 31.  Whatever works here.  Alex will play to his 45.   You got it. ;)   It's not my main beef with the trade so like I said I don't want to get lost in the woods on this.  So if you insist that you are right on this.  You can have this point.  ;)

 

8 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

1. Trading “high” round draft picks. What constitutes a “high” draft pick to you? There are seven rounds to a draft. So clearly you think that a third round pick is a high round draft pick. Truth is a third round pick is a middle round pick. It’s not a high round draft pick like a first or second round pick. Those are high round picks, they aren’t the same.

 

 

top half of the 3rd round to me is a high pick.  Clearly, it doesn't bother you.  In your discussion you tend to veer from one part of the compensation to another -- giving the vibe that they are all separate.  So I am going to keep my responses focused on the full compensation and ignore all the sidebar stuff that has nothing to do with the bottom line for me. 

 

Bottom line

 

1.  top half of the 3rd round pick

2. Kendell Fuller -- which to me is the equivalent to a first rounder or at worst a high 2nd rounder.

3.  Likely no shot at getting anything better than a late third rounder in Kirk in 2019.

 

Your response is hooray! :):) :)

My response is it stinks. :( :(:(

 

Your response has the overtone that the deal is so great, that I am just nuts and just hating the FO for not embracing it.  But you of all people should know better than that since we debated this BEFORE it went down.  And I explained then why it was my least favorite scenario and flat out said what I prefer.  I don't care if you disagree. That doesn't sway me.  To each their own.  

 

 

8 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

3. Do you understand compensatory picks and how they work? If so you know that next year if the Redskins had gone with a free agent QB as the post Kirk answer as you mentioned above that would mean the Redskins would not be getting a third round compensatory pick next year when they lose Kirk.

 

Do you understand that the Eagles got a 1st rounder and 4th rounder for Bradford

A first and 2nd rounder for Carson Palmer

Jay Cutler for two first round picks and a third

Heck we traded a 2nd and 4th for McNabb

On and on.

 

I don't give a rats behind about a late third round pick in 2019 which is the equivalent of the late round 4th round pick this year -- at the expense of potentially getting a first rounder for Kirk and keeping Fuller.  It's ridiculous IMO that this is even a point of discussion for debate.

 

Would I want a first rounder for Kirk and Kendall Fuller versus a late third round pick in 2019?  Tough call?  Really?   And you are the same dude that minimized in your same post the value of a high third rounder.  Somehow a late third rounder the year after is more exciting?  Clearly, not using your own logic.  But I don't see how you can just ignore that they likely lost their trade leverage for Kirk.  Now if Bruce pulls a rabbit out of the hat and does trade him that changes this some.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think some here are over rating the value of the 14th pick in round 3, which I certainly do not consider a "high pick".  That's pretty close to the middle of the 3rd round.  

Historic Success Chart

The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:

1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)

2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)

3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)

 

 

arthur-draftanalysis-2-CORRECTED

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bobandweave said:

And as for Reid I do think he’s a year too soon letting Smith go and going with Mahomes. If I’m right and they fall off a 10 win season and win only 6 games because Pat wasn’t ready that will make him look bad. I’m not sold on Mahomes yet but I understand why they let Smith go, they were in cap hell and needed to get out of it. 

Reid’s timing was near perfect.  Smith had only one year left on his contract then would become a UFA.  No way were they going to tag or extend him in 2019 so Smith’s max value was now until October trade deadline. Reid could have held on thru training camp to see if any starting QB’s on other teams go out with an injury creating panic.  He could have received more but it would prevent Mahomes from getting the starter’s reps and experience he needed to get ready for the season with Smith still around.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kirk is gone and the Redskins get is a 3rd round pick in 2019 providing Snyder doesn't do something self-destructive and stupid to blow this also. The fans on this board calling for Snyder to cling to Cousins and try to force a trade for Cousins are the same fans who didn't think Cousins was worth extending at market rates, let him go already and focus on the brilliant future the Skins have with Alex Smith.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

Some  players seem to have very good relationships with the team - listen to how Junior Gallete talks of his treatment with the team how the team stood by him following his injuries.  Junior is a good player and he will get paid this offseason .. I hope he comes back. Look how Jackson spoke of the team after he left .

Dude, that was Scot, not our current front office.

Edited by Reaper Skins
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

This was very disingenuous of Kirk and it irritates me that people do not see there is blame on both sides . 

I'm not sure if it's disingenuous or just straight up naïve to believe that what we've read is all that's ever transpired between both parties.  There is a whole lot of time that's elapsed between the events we know about.  For example, plenty of time elapsed between Kirk's Peter King interview and the end of the season.  Plenty of time elapsed between the end of the 2016 season and placing the franchise tag, and more time elapsed between the FT and the offer by the team in May.  None of us really have any idea what transpired between parties during those gaps in time and probably never will.  But it would be naïve to assume that nothing happened to lead us to where we are today.  You can choose to believe that what happened was Kirk pulled the wool over the organizations eyes and bold face lied to everyone involved in an effort to stick it to Bruce, the team, and the fans in an epic, wrestling like 'heel' move.  That's your right.  But forgive me if I find that to be a stretch of epic proportion.  Many of us that are critical of Bruce and how he's handled this situation among others at least acknowledge that we don't know everything that's transpired in this saga.  But putting the main pieces together leading to this sad conclusion leads me to believe that Bruce was in way over his head trying to mastermind this QB situation and only further compounded his mistakes the further along this thing got.

 

6 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

People have this narrative that Bruce Allen is an idiot and  everything he does is wrong .

 

I call BS.  I and many others that have similar views to my own make plenty of qualifying statements when speaking of Bruce.  For example, I've been of the belief the entire time that Bruce isn't stupid enough to play the game of tag and trade chicken and hold his cap hostage in doing so.  Obviously not every move the man makes is a bad one.  I applauded some of the offseason moves from last season and have done so in seasons past.  However, Bruce's top deliverable as GM should be to solidify the QB position.  Bruce has traded numerous #1, #2's, and now a #3 and player valued at a first round grade in an effort to solidify the QB position in his nine years with the team.  He actually had one on the roster, failed to make that happen and gave up more to try and patch the hole in the boat.  Another huge failure was bringing in Scot, lying to the fanbase that he was going to have full control of the personnel department, when really he was just a highly paid scout that still had to answer to Bruce on everything. 

 

You can choose to overlook those things and try to balance them out by signing guys like Zach Brown and DJ Swearinger, but in my opinion the negatives far outweigh the positives and the results align with my point of view.

 

To each his own.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I think some here are over rating the value of the 14th pick in round 3, which I certainly do not consider a "high pick".  That's pretty close to the middle of the 3rd round.  

The Redskins have actually had relatively decent success in the 3rd round.

 

What I actually find more interesting is that one party is arguing that a 3rd round pick isn't a high pick, yet their argument has been built around how great it is to get a 3rd round comp pick out of losing Cousins.  So which one is it? 

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I think some here are over rating the value of the 14th pick in round 3, which I certainly do not consider a "high pick".  That's pretty close to the middle of the 3rd round.  

 

 

We've done well with our 3rd rounders -- especially top half of the first round.  But regardless, my point on the specific debate is ALL the compensation.  ALL of it.  It seems to get lost in the weeds, including in your post (though I understand not intentionally), that there are three dynamics in play with the trade, not just one.  If people want to minimize the 3rd rounder.  If they want to minimize Kendall Fuller.  If they want to minimize the opportunity cost to trade Kirk.  You got to minimize all of it -- not the part that they think isn't meaningful. 

 

Did we just trade Alex Smith for a third rounder and called it a day?

 

Or Is it?

A.  High third round pick

B.  Kendall Fuler

C. Opportunity cost to trade Kirk for a first rounder and more or at I'd presume at worst a 2nd rounder.

 

This part isn't directed your way.  A and B tend to be argued by some at times as separate points of discussion.  But they aren't.  Its both.  And the kicker to me is C.  You'd think C doesn't even exist.  Who cares that we had a fighting chance to transition tag Kirk and get trade value?

 

And the guy I am mostly debating this point on is making a big deal about losing a late 3rd rounder in 2019 as a key reason why we don't sign a FA -- smarter to give up trade capital in the whole bowl of soup to land Alex. 

 

As for the pick.  His points don't add up together.  The high third rounder can't be a whatever I am not losing sleep over the pick (with a nod to our old friend Vinny who traded 3rd rounders like candy) while its a really really really big deal to get that late third rounder for 2019.   

 

But again this wasn't a 3rd rounder for Alex.  This was Kendall Fuller.  A 3rd round pick.  And likely no shot at compensation for Kirk.  And like I told Bobweave -- if Bruce ends up pulling off some crazy miracle and gets trade value for Kirk, that changes the game for me.  But at the moment, that seems like a stretch.  But yeah if we are talking tomorrow about hey can you believe Bruce got a first for Kirk.  I'll back track. 

 

My point here isn't anything negative about Alex.  I like the dude.  It's about losing Kirk for just about nothing and giving up capital at the same time.  Picking apart parts of the point -- doesn't mean anything to me.  This wasn't a multiple choice trade where we can focus on just one part of it -- its the whole thing.  Considering everything is it a good trade or not.  To me its getting assets for Kirk and what did they give up to replace him.  Does it all add up to job well done?  If people like the whole ball of wax.  That's cool.  To me it's not a job well done.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So as everyone is aware Cousin's agent is saying they will file a grievance against the Redskins if he gets tagged again, claiming the tag would not be "in the spirit" of the rule. I say bring it on because there is no way in hell the NFL is going to open up that pandora's box.

 

I give you Exhibit A

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/02/20/dolphins-may-be-trying-to-trade-jarvis-landry/

 

Posted by Mike Florio on February 20, 2018, 9:54 PM EST
Getty Images

There’s another possible message that the quick decision to tag receiver Jarvis Landry sends to other teams, other than, “Don’t tamper with him next week.” And the message may be this: “Make us an offer.”

A league source tells PFT that the the quick tag is being interpreted as a desire by the Dolphins to trade Landry.

No trade can happen unless and until Landry signs the tender. As a practical matter, a trade is unlikely unless and until he’d agree to an acceptable long-term contract from the new team.

The challenge comes from calculating a long-term offer, given that Landry can sit tight and make more than $16 million in 2018, with the promise of a shot at the open market or a 20-percent raise in 2019.

Rumors of a potential Landry trade emerged last year. With Landry officially tagged as all teams prepare to head to Indianapolis, every team is on notice that Landry possibly could be had — if a deal can be worked out both with the player and his current team.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, DJD2 said:

So as everyone is aware Cousin's agent is saying they will file a grievance against the Redskins if he gets tagged again, claiming the tag would not be "in the spirit" of the rule. I say bring it on because there is no way in hell the NFL is going to open up that pandora's box.

Perhaps the mention of filing a grievance and indicating he won’t sign a LTD with a trade partner is simply utilizing leverage.  

 

Just like perhaps floating the idea to tag and trade Cousins in the first place was posturing and trying to test the waters.

 

This is business on both sides.  Sure there are personal issues built into it, but it’s still business at the end of the day.

 

I really have no idea what would happen if a grievance was filed but I think it’s a bit foolish to ever bet on the Redskins winning something of that nature, fairly or unfairly.

Edited by BatteredFanSyndrome
  • Like 3
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

This is for the Kirk Kclingers desperately hope that Snyder will fashion some face-saving trade, give up your vain hopes it's over.

This just popped into my head reading "clingers" and transposing it into Klinger. :)  I will be glad when this truly is over and we can move on, in some cases literally, to other "things". Hail

 

Related image

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me the argument as to the difference between an elite game changing quarterback and one who can excel in the right atmosphere died when they awarded the superbowl mvp this year. 

We can go round and round as to where cousins falls in this spectrum but I think foles is an outstanding barometer for kirk cousins.  

Edited by redskinss

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is very little spirit in the whole 'tagging' process to begin with. 

 

Love that Kirks agent has suddenly opened his mouth. I'd suggest his refusal to negotiate with us this offseason on a LTD prior to the start of FA is also against the spirit of things....he wanted the freedom of FA or he was goading us to tag Kirk for the 3rd time. Wasn't that long ago he was telling his client to run to the desk with pen in hand if we tagged him again. 

 

Picking your moment to be ethical. He's no better than Bruce :ols:

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.