WP: Kirk Cousins breaks his silence after Redskins trade for Alex Smith

[Birdlives]

I find it extremely hard to believe Kirk would refuse to sign a LTD with a team he wants to play for. If he’s intrigued with playing for Denver and we trade him there, is he really going to hold them hostage out of sheer spite? Very far fetched. I’m also thinking about how Cleveland offered a 2nd for Smith but he balked because they wanted him on a 1 year contract as a transition QB while they draft and develop a rookie. I don’t wonder if Cleveland would take on Cousins for 1 year for the same reasons. They’ve got the space, it would do literally no damage to the team. They could throw one of their 82 2nd round picks at us for Kirk, let him play on a one year, and draft a QB this year to get ready to start next year.

[markmills67]

Can we not find out the teams that are serious about cousin's and find out which of those teams he would prefer to play for, then ask cousin's to sign the tag and we then trade him to his prefered team. Not everybody sees eye to eye on how good they think or you think you are, we have still payed cousin's around 50m since we drafted him surely that is enough for him to at least let us get something for him.

 

HTTR 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

21 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

I find it extremely hard to believe Kirk would refuse to sign a LTD with a team he wants to play for. If he’s intrigued with playing for Denver and we trade him there, is he really going to hold them hostage out of sheer spite? 

Perhaps he doesn’t know exactly where he wants to go and would like to hear teams plans for his contract and what will go on around him, meet coaches/coordinators, talk shop, all that.  I’m sure he has a short list, but why would he want to play nice now? If I were him I’d absolutely take every step necessary to assure I walk free rather than let Bruce prosper, not out of spite but out of principle.

[kingdaddy]

11 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Can we not find out the teams that are serious about cousin's and find out which of those teams he would prefer to play for, then ask cousin's to sign the tag and we then trade him to his prefered team. Not everybody sees eye to eye on how good they think or you think you are, we have still payed cousin's around 50m since we drafted him surely that is enough for him to at least let us get something for him.

 

HTTR 

 

Rumors like the Jets going all in for KC make me think that this sign and trade thing could happen. I'm convinced teams want their QB situation firmed up asap and will give up something for the security of having the horse in the barn. If Denver really wants KC and KC really wants Denver, the more rumors and teams they hear that will buck up for him I would think Elway would want to get a deal done with Washington to put an end to all the drama and speculation. It would also make sense that KC plays ball with Bruce so Denver doesn't feel like they have to move on to someone else either in free agency or the draft due to KC being held hostage in Washington. You gotta love being a Skins fan in the offseason, this is gonna be entertaining for sure.

[HigSkin]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps he doesn’t know exactly where he wants to go and would like to hear teams plans for his contract and what will go on around him, meet coaches/coordinators, talk shop, all that.  I’m sure he has a short list, but why would he want to play nice now? If I were him I’d absolutely take every step necessary to assure I walk free rather than let Bruce prosper, not out of spite but out of principle.

 

I think it was Scott M. that said you can bet KC has a book of notes on every team, it's staff, players, schemes, talked to people like Shanahan, etc. because that's how he rolls.  I think it's highly likely his agent has already been having conversations with interested teams and I'm sure they have a favorite.  :-)

[HardcoreZorn]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps he doesn’t know exactly where he wants to go and would like to hear teams plans for his contract and what will go on around him, meet coaches/coordinators, talk shop, all that.  I’m sure he has a short list, but why would he want to play nice now? If I were him I’d absolutely take every step necessary to assure I walk free rather than let Bruce prosper, not out of spite but out of principle.

Again not a Bruce fan by any means, but I can see how your franchise QB collecting 2 years of guaranteed money and then refusing to negotiate until free agency (at which point we could be caught with our pants down) may rub you wrong way. Especially when you are the one getting vilified throughout the whole process.

 

I'm sure that's what Kirk wants but too bad. He played hardball with us. Don't see why we shouldn't play hardball with him here and attempt to salvage this situation as best we can.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Again not a Bruce fan by any means, but I can see how your franchise QB collecting 2 years of guaranteed money and then refusing to negotiate until free agency (at which point we could be caught with our pants down) may rub you wrong way. Especially when you are the one getting vilified throughout the whole process.

 

I'm sure that's what Kirk wants but too bad. He played hardball with us. Don't see why we shouldn't play hardball with him here and attempt to salvage this situation as best we can.

 

The only way Cousins was a franchise QB here was due to the franchise tag.  If he’s really your franchise QB you exit the 2016 season and immediately enter into legit negotiations to lock him up long term.  You don’t lowball and poop on the guy to his agent and then get desperate and make a legit offer five months later. Unless you’re too busy trying to iron out another problem of your own making in getting rid of Scot.  Bruce needs only to look in the mirror for how this played out.  There were numerous ways he could have played this to not be wearing the egg on his face.

 

I understand him ‘wanting’ to salvage the situation in a way to make him look less bad, but what he wants and what he gets are two different things.  If some team is willing to give up picks to rent Cousins, more power to Bruce and the gang.  However there is no reason for Kirk to feel any obligation to help them out by playing nice.

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

 

  However there is no reason for Kirk to feel any obligation to help them out by playing nice.

Other posters have pointed out very good reasons why KC may want to sign and play nice in large part because it MIGHT be to his advantage both financially and in terms of where he wants to play. While he wouldn't be obliged to help out the Skins, he might feel like he needs to play ball to help out the team he hopes to go to. 

The sooner he can help end all of this drama, the sooner he can get to his new team and start moving forward. The longer Bruce holds that up from happening, the fewer the teams are that will likely hang in there and wait for this drama to end, including the team he may be hoping to join. Again, this will come down to how far Bruce wants to take this in spite of what might be best for the franchise. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

While he wouldn't be obliged to help out the Skins, he might feel like he needs to play ball to help out the team he hopes to go to. 

Help his new team out by having them give up assets when he could just go there on his own free will?

[kingdaddy]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Help his new team out by having them give up assets when he could just go there on his own free will?

My point is that Denver may have to be really, really patient and confident that they will land KC in free agency if and when KC ultimately gets to free agency. If Bruce plays hard ball long enough and holds KC hostage, Denver is gonna have to decide how long they're willing to wait Bruce out. They'll essentially have to have an agreement in place with KC that if/when he becomes free he will go to Denver and sign a long term deal. The risk for Denver would be that Bruce holds on to KC well into free agency or even longer....fast forward to the NFL draft and KC is still a Redskin, does Denver trade for him then? If not, they'll have to start thinking about drafting a QB. The odds of Bruce doing this don't seem great but who knows, maybe he figures he has the top prize in the league and he's not giving it up without compensation. He only needs one team to take the bait and then he looks better.

I think a team like Denver could offer up decent compensation for KC in a deal just so they know they'll get him....sooner rather than later. We'll see won't we. It's an interesting situation for sure.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d venture a guess while they are aware of Bruce’s many shortcomings as a GM, they don’t think he’s stupid enough to handicap his franchise in a game of chicken.

 

Personally, I think if not for Bruce’s last name, he’d be peddling insurance for a living.  But I don’t think he’s stupid enough to hold his own cap hostage in an effort to squeeze the last bit of juice out of Cousins and McCartney.  

[HardcoreZorn]

18 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

The only way Cousins was a franchise QB here was due to the franchise tag.  If he’s really your franchise QB you exit the 2016 season and immediately enter into legit negotiations to lock him up long term.  You don’t lowball and poop on the guy to his agent and then get desperate and make a legit offer five months later. Unless you’re too busy trying to iron out another problem of your own making in getting rid of Scot.  Bruce needs only to look in the mirror for how this played out.  There were numerous ways he could have played this to not be wearing the egg on his face.

 

I understand him ‘wanting’ to salvage the situation in a way to make him look less bad, but what he wants and what he gets are two different things.  If some team is willing to give up picks to rent Cousins, more power to Bruce and the gang.  However there is no reason for Kirk to feel any obligation to help them out by playing nice.

This is where you lose me? Do you have any proof of this happening? I'm genuinely intrigued if there is substantiated proof that we low balled and then pooped on the guy to his agent.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21121399/next-uneasy-marriage-kirk-cousins-redskins-nfl
 

Quote

This spring Snyder got involved in Cousins' recruitment for the first time, reaching out to express that he wants Cousins to be part of the team's future. He has taken Cousins to dinner, texted with him off and on, and tried to make his appreciation clear. "He's done everything right," Cousins says.

 

 

Quote

When Allen went to visit Cousins in Michigan this offseason to persuade him to sign a deal, Cousins looked him right in the eye and told him it wasn't about the money. He was going to play under the franchise tag again.

 

Those quotes tell a very different story.

 

Quote

Former Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan, who declined comment for this story, reportedly tried to sign Cousins to a long-term deal before 2016. But the initial offer, according to people briefed on it, was $12 million a year, and Cousins was insulted. He would have signed if the team had offered a three-year deal at $19 million per, according to a source familiar with his thinking. Allen wouldn't go higher than $16 million. The team felt as if it hadn't seen enough, that he'd played only nine good games. Instead, it ended up paying Cousins significantly more when it had to franchise him.

 

Or do you have your years mixed up and this is what you are referring to? If so, Scott was the main culprit behind that. And at that point in time, Kirk hadn't done enough to justify anything close to 19M dollars a year IMO. Clearly I ended up being wrong, and we would have looked like geniuses had we agreed to Kirk's camp's offer. But at the time, I know I would have felt pretty shaky giving a guy with 9 good games and 0 playoff wins a top 5 QB contract...

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I know it feels better to pin all this on Scot because he’s no longer here.  If Kirk and his agent merely had a problem with only Scot, why would we be having this conversation right here today?  Why would it be reported by numerous sources that McCartney and Bruce have had blood? One would think that firing Scot would be seen as a positive by Kirk’s camp if that was the case.  

 

I clearly remember reading reports that Bruce, not Scot, played up the Giants loss as the end all be all to McCartney and put the cherry on top with a lowball offer with minimal guarantees.  All around the same time there was the Scot drama, loss of the receivers, McVay, etc.  Kirk then spent 3 months under a signed franchise tag before Bruce came with a serious offer, which was too late.

[mistertim]

43 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I know it feels better to pin all this on Scot because he’s no longer here.  If Kirk and his agent merely had a problem with only Scot, why would we be having this conversation right here today?  Why would it be reported by numerous sources that McCartney and Bruce have had blood? One would think that firing Scot would be seen as a positive by Kirk’s camp if that was the case.  

 

I clearly remember reading reports that Bruce, not Scot, played up the Giants loss as the end all be all to McCartney and put the cherry on top with a lowball offer with minimal guarantees.  All around the same time there was the Scot drama, loss of the receivers, McVay, etc.  Kirk then spent 3 months under a signed franchise tag before Bruce came with a serious offer, which was too late.

 

I pin this whole thing on everyone. Nobody is free of blame. Bruce, Dan, Kirk, Scot. Dan and Scot not as much as the others but still a bit. I really don't blame Scot for balking at a LTD of $19 million/year after half of a good season and apparently that "insulted" KIrk so he refused the more reasonable, but still good at the time, $16 million that Allen would go to. Then he plays well in 2016 and refused to come to the table and openly said he wanted to play on the franchise tag even after the Skins tried to come with an initial offer to start negotiations. And Bruce was an asshat for harping on the Giants loss...not because it isn't a valid criticism, but because he was purely doing it to try and dress down Kirk and his agent and Kirk probably found that insulting too. Then he was a double asshat for doing the press release about the offer that was made. Now after the 2017 season Kirk and his agent come out and say they refuse to even talk about a LTD until FA starts. 

[zoony]

Snyder, the same owner who threatened laverneus coles that he was going to buy him a bigscreen tv to watch the season on unless he agreed to terms.  Same owner who flew to Waco to take rgiii out for dinner before his pro day.  The same owner who was BFFs with Arrington until all that went to hell.  The same owner who, according to spurrier, promised him beathard and gave him vinny.  The same owner who was out bowling with rgiii while kirk was showing solid starter material on the field

 

Scott, the GM that tried to go cheap on Kirk, but didnt offer any alternatives thru draft or free agency.  We all knew what kirks head rub/ how you like me now comment to Scott meant

 

That leaves Bruce, who in my opinion, lacks the fortitude to form his own strategy.  I think he is just taking what info he got from scott and doubling down... that kirk is a good qb but not great and not worth the huge money.

 

Also, throwing this out there, i think Kirk has a little too much of the `i dont get any respect` thing for his own good.  He came across like a whiny **** several times his rookie year when he was asked about being drafted behind rgiii.  To this day i doubt he recognizes it was the single most fortunate happening in his professional development.  He would be out of the league by now if he were a 1st or 2nd round pick.

 

This is all a recipe for, well, the situation we have.  An unprecedented disaster

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

At the end of the day, it’s as simple to me as the fact that Kirk didn’t counter last year and didn’t want to talk until March this year.  That’s true.

 

One has to wonder how big of a douche Bruce has to be to get himself in this situation? We really have no idea what’s been said or done, but I can’t help but think it’s got to be pretty bad to have things play out this way.  Folks are free to believe whatever they want.  Kirk and his agent are just greedy, petty jerks that should be thankful to the organization for getting to play and becoming rich.  I believe it’s much, much more likely that’s not the case though, simply off what we know about the character of everyone involved.  

[HardcoreZorn]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

At the end of the day, it’s as simple to me as the fact that Kirk didn’t counter last year and didn’t want to talk until March this year.  That’s true.

 

One has to wonder how big of a douche Bruce has to be to get himself in this situation? We really have no idea what’s been said or done, but I can’t help but think it’s got to be pretty bad to have things play out this way.  Folks are free to believe whatever they want.  Kirk and his agent are just greedy, petty jerks that should be thankful to the organization for getting to play and becoming rich.  I believe it’s much, much more likely that’s not the case though, simply off what we know about the character of everyone involved.  

I don’t disagree one bit that there is some animosity toward bruce and dan that they brought on themselves. And I don’t think it’s necessarily greed, it’s the fact that Kirk has the chance to be a trailblazer and seized the ungodly amount of leverage that was thrown his way. 

 

If you think about it, positions outside of QB don’t make near as much money on the franchise tag. And the risk of injury is arguably greater, and the earning period is shorter than that of QB. So there is a ton of incentive in most cases for the player to lock in a long term deal, even if the per year amount is less than that of the franchise tag. And most QBs are starters well before their first contract is up, giving ample time to be evaluated. Also most QBs are not drafted in the same draft that the team mortgaged their future for another QB. It truly is an unprecedented situation and everyone has their hand in it. 

[RandyHolt]

Since Kirk seems anxious to file a grievance, maybe we should tag his ass.

 

Many here gave great reasons why we w/c/shouldn't. But then I still wonder why Kirk thinks that we may, and even feels compelled to threaten us.  Go get um, Breavis. 

[#BgMase76#]

Ladies, gentlemen, kids and children. The Kirk Cousins show is officially over. PLS MOVE ON. Starting to look at some fans and wonder, stalk much??!!! KC was mentally packed and ready to go a while ago. His dream was hitting F/A.( As in I'm following the money) Alex Smith is our QB. Love him like him, he's out guy under center. Not sure how much more energy or time fans plan on expending in the pursuit of Kirk. He didn't threaten the organization. He was just handling his biz. More power to him and whatever franchise he signs with. I just know I won't watch another season end w/ him choking against NYG. #HTTR

[bobandweave]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

We've debated this subject before.   But what the heck.  One more time. 

 

 

There were multiple narratives from Kirk's critics as to the benefits of letting him go.

The main narrative they gave -- I disagreed with -- but it has some logic to it which is:

 

A.  Go young at QB -- build to the future.

B.  Use all that cap room to build the defense.

 

So not sure you have given this other thought but my take on those options are

 

A. At pick 13 we aren’t in a good position to move up with those other teams all needing QBs too. Plus with the veterans on the team the approach doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve always been on the Alex Smith plan

 

B. Cap room on the defense is vague. If you mean resigning guys like Breeland who is a must to me and Junior and Trent and Brown then we can do that now with Alex Smith. If you mean going shopping for one big old fat run stuffer and that’s it we can do that with Smith too and keep our pass rushers and corner with what they have now. Kirk always hurt that plan. Now if you mean other teams free agents I don’t agree with that. We have to play the compensatory pick game this season

 

The way I see it Alex Smith is Kirk Cousins. There are different types of QBs in the league now. Franchise guys that can take a team from nothing to respectability by themselves like Brady. Guys who can be plugged into a team that’s ready for the super bowl but missing a QB like Nick Foles. And good QBs like Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins.

 

I don’t think that either Kirk or Alex falls into the franchise QB category. I think they can both be plugged into the right situtation and win. And I think they are both good QBs. I think the Chiefs offense and the Redskins offense is similar in a lot of ways and that each QB does certain things better then the other. They are very similar

 

Thing is Alex Smith cost 17 million and Kirk could cost up to 30 if he were to chase the money. Both Kirk and Alex are good QBs. Some think Kirk is better some think Alex is better but they are both good QBs. So if both options are good going with the cheaper option makes more sense from the business side of it to me.

 

I like Alex Smith in this offense. I think he opens up the rushing game with his mobility and his passes are very accurate. He’s not a reckless thrower and his weakness is the mid range passing. He is a better passer on off schedule plays, is a good long passer, and is smart and seasoned. He is a good QB.

 

Kirk has his positives too. My issue with Kirk was that we all saw his negatives too and his inconsistency bothers me. And he stood behind his comments saying how he had to think about all of the other future QBs when he signs his deal and I believe him

 

Now with Alex and his cheap deal the team has more money to sign its own free agents. This team had two glaring weaknesses to me before this trade, they can’t stop the run and they can’t run the ball. They are still there. My hope is that losing fuller means that Fabian steps up and can replace him. As long as they sign Breeland the passing defense should be strong.

 

The third round pick doesn’t bother me. Option A using a top pick on a QB was draft picks on a QB. They used a third round pick on a QB. Either way your losing a pick. Rather keep the first and spend the third and not the other way around because of where they are picking.

 

 

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd go for that by a mile over:

A.  Get older at QB -- put more of a pressure driven win now element to the team

B.  Have more cap room but not a ton more - you aren't set up for a big spending spree

C. Lost draft capital and one of your best young players

 

Older at QB by three years. Let’s be honest they are both over 30 but with age comes wisdom right? Tom Brady is 40, Aaron Rodgers is older, Alex Smith is older but so is the stars on this team.

 

Trent was drafted in 2010

Ryan drafted in 2011

Norman is 30

 

This is a team in a win now mode the next three years. 

 

Spending spree should only be used on keeping the teams own free agents and a run stopper. Why? Because we will be losing guys to free agency. If we spend the money on our own players like Breeland and Brown then we will get draft picks for the guys we lose. That’s huge to me, we have to keep restocking the shelves otherwise we can’t take players like Fuller 

 

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

All the trades had a fun buzz to them at the time.  I dug the McNabb trade, I didn't care at that moment about the 2nd rounder-4th rounder.  I was just jazzed to have McNabb.   I recall Al Saunders saying that Brandon Lloyd had some of the best hands he's ever seen -- well worth a 3rd and 4th rounder.  Jason Taylor was a beast, so why cry over the 2nd and 6th rounder for him?   Joe Gibbs loved TJ Duckett back when he was close to Atlanta's ownership -- the dude knows running backs.  Just trust him!  Jammal Brown was one of the better LTs in the league -- getting the dude for a 3rd round pick is a bargain!

 

Failures are a learning tool. Those deals were how long ago? We can’t be afraid of failing. Every team fails in this game. Look at all of the QBs drafted every year who fail and the teams that take them. Every team fails. 

 

The truth is the Redskins have a good QB now signed up for the next few years ending the stupid contract drama we’ve all been suffering from the past few years and we kept our first round pick and now have a clear future where as before we had a QB question mark and were starring at Colt McCoy and a possibility of another Griffin trade gamble. 

[Nerm]

A few random thoughts on the tag and trade idea...

 

- From the things Kirk has said about being a free agent, I get the sense that he feels that he will not know where he wants to go... Until he goes through "the process" of being a free agent.  I don't know that he will agree to "go to a team that he wants to sign with anyway".  He seems to say that "the process" of free agency is needed to decide where he wants to be.

 

- I don't know how grievances are resolved if he is tagged, but I doubt that he has to prove beyond doubt that the Redskins are not tagging him to negotiate a long term contract with him.  I have never seen anyone who talks about this issue state that they think the Skins still want him to stay on a LTD, and will tag him to try to work a LTD out.  You would think that it would be easy to call witnesses under oath (e.g. Alex Smith and his agent), and ask what they were told about the plans for Kirk going forward.  Even people that think the Skins would win a grievance don't think it is possible that they want to tag him to try to get him to sign a LTD with the team.  It is strange logic, but when it comes to legal/arbitration issues, basic logic flys out the window.  So, I don't know how that would be decided.

 

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Nerm said:

A few random thoughts on the tag and trade idea...

 

- From the things Kirk has said about being a free agent, I get the sense that he feels that he will not know where he wants to go... Until he goes through "the process" of being a free agent.  I don't know that he will agree to "go to a team that he wants to sign with anyway".  He seems to say that "the process" of free agency is needed to decide where he wants to be.

 

- I don't know how grievances are resolved if he is tagged, but I doubt that he has to prove beyond doubt that the Redskins are not tagging him to negotiate a long term contract with him.  I have never seen anyone who talks about this issue state that they think the Skins still want him to stay on a LTD, and will tag him to try to work a LTD out.  You would think that it would be easy to call witnesses under oath (e.g. Alex Smith and his agent), and ask what they were told about the plans for Kirk going forward.  Even people that think the Skins would win a grievance don't think it is possible that they want to tag him to try to get him to sign a LTD with the team.  It is strange logic, but when it comes to legal/arbitration issues, basic logic flys out the window.  So, I don't know how that would be decided.

 

 

 

Thing is, even if it was provable that the Skins were not actually trying to work out a LTD with the tag it really shouldn't matter. There is nothing in the franchise tag rules that says a team may only fanchise tag a guy if they are provably trying to work out a LTD with him. This whole "spirit" of the rule thing is such bull**** IMO. Just like it was bull**** when they Skins got penalized for violating the "spirit" of the CBA. If you want something to be a rule then put it in the rule book.

[SkinsFTW]

4 hours ago, #BgMase76# said:

I just know I won't watch another season end w/ him choking against NYG. #HTTR

Naa you'll just have to enjoy Alex Smith choke even harder, as he did vs the Giants last year with all of his weapons on the field, Kelce over 100 receiving, 130 yards rushing, still couldn't even compete vs the Giants. 3Fgs, 2 Ints. 

 

Gonna be hilarious with him attempting to improve on that with IReed, Perine and 40/60 Doctson, Crowder fumbling in the worst possible times in numerous games.

[RandyHolt]

Fordy!!!

[Burgold]

The idea that Kirk may not know where he wants to go until free agency suggests to me that it is all about the Benjamins. If it was about winning or team, he'd have a pretty good idea already which teams are more competitive, have a better coaching staff, better front office, etc. The only thing he doesn't know is how much each prospective suitor will really ante up.

 

There's nothing wrong with Kirk going after the highest priced suitor or thinking about dollar signs over team. He may even want to go to the better team, but feel that he needs the auction to drive his price up first. And there's nothing wrong with any of that, but it is informative.