Welcome to the Commanders Jayden Daniels QB LSU

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

21 minutes ago, Bifflog said:

Kingsbury is the biggest gamble, but feels like there's a lot of upside. 

I agree that he’s had time to reflect, but it’s like a lot of people like the hire because they think he runs a “cool and progressive” offense.

 

I watched Zona play plenty. Murray always arguing with Kliff for not getting the plays in on time. False starts everywhere. Missed assignments. Andre Hopkins running nothing but five yard outs for an entire game. It was miserable. 
 

I’m not gonna post anymore on the topic. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. I just don’t understand why there isn’t more skepticism here in regards to his abilities.

Edited May 21 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[Warhead36]

Oh I'm definitely skeptical of Kingsbury. But I do think he's a bright mind who needed to be humbled a bit. Reminds me kinda of Kyle Shanahan who bounced around a bit before really hitting his stride in Atlanta, which was coincidentally under Quinn.

 

A lot of the issues in Arizona were as much about Murray not being a hard worker or very coachable as much as anything else.

[Bifflog]

8 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I agree that he’s had time to reflect, but it’s like a lot of people like the hire because they think he runs a “cool and progressive” offense.

 

I watched Zona play plenty. Murray always arguing with Kliff for not getting the plays in on time. False starts everywhere. Missed assignments. Andre Hopkins running nothing but five yard outs for an entire game. It was miserable. 
 

I’m not gonna post anymore on the topic. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. I just don’t understand why their isn’t more skepticism here in regards to his abilities.

 

I think there's skepticism, but choosing to look at it half full until something is seen otherwise.  Was there an obvious better hire to be made, I dunno? Plenty of us wanted Ben Johnson to be running this O, but it wasn't mean to be.  I like it because it seems like a fit with the rest of the staff (his responsibilities vs Quinn's, history with young QB's, the way it ended with Kyler notwithstanding) and the upside factor.  Could definitely go sideways, but that's a lot of hires.

Edited May 21 by Bifflog

[RandyHolt]

All I can say is the King better be better than EB....

[FootballZombie]

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

All I can say is the King better be better than EB....

 

[RandyHolt]

15 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

LOL.  I was one of the last EB defenders. He couldn't have come into a more dysfunctional organization - top to bottom. Owner to coach to drafting to personnel... Sure his play calling sucked and he was too abrasive cry me a ****ing river had 5th round 1st year QB with one start under his belt and not much support. Defense SUCKED. Coach sucked. WRs regressed. Got exactly CRod as the only player on offense in the draft. He did develop Robinson and got plays in on time which apparently can be a thing.

 

So the King sounds relatively unproven but lets blame Kyler and continue with unfounded optimism dammit.

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yes, call me a rebel.  i am indeed claiming it was a very good defense.  It's nuts.   Ranked #3 in yards.  Ranked #8 in DVOA.  #7 from PFN.   Rivera's defense fluctuated from very good, to bad in alternate years.  We can say we all thought the real story is only the bad was meaningful not the good.  But that's rewriting history.  I'd say 99% of the board expected the defense to kill it in 2023, plenty of pundits, too (if was the offense that was the big question) the defense looked very good in 2022.  I don't recall too many in the 2023 off season saying its a paper tiger and wait for the collapse of the unit. 

 

 

At least judging by PFF metrics, Chinn followed his rookie year with a good year #2, was so so the last 2 years, so not that long ago, he's 26. 

 

Quan you say can't even be considered an average starting safety by you.  But by PFF scores and comments from coaches he's an emerging very good player.    In my amateur opinion, I thought to my eyes he played very well towards the end of the season. I was rooting for losses for the higher draft pick and he was one of the pain in the ass players for me who I was hoping would cool it, especially in the Jets game.   And I loved his college tape, he was one of my fav players in that draft.  Guys like Logan Paulsen who rewatches tape to death, thought he was very good too. 

 

Darrick Forrest with a 67 PFF score, 4 picks in 2022 -- that feels below average to you.  Cool.  But not to many.   He was one of the players many of us and the coaches (based on their rhetoric) were jazzed to see last year.  And some reporters (if I recall Keim was one) referred to the poor communication in the backfield last year to partly be about missing Forrest.

 

Clearly, you are going glass half empty on this unit.  It's cool to each their own.  But as a dude that often likes to say I wouldn't bet money on this or that -- on this point I'd bet you end up wrong and I'd put money on this one.  I know you say you rooting to be wrong.   I don't think you got to worry about this.   I think the worry is can the O line hold up.  The defense at a minimum I'd be surprised if its not top half of the league. 

 

I do think this defensive coaching staff is loaded with studs.  I don't expect players to under acheive like last year.  Also, when you got a pass happy offense that can't convert that will downgrade most defenses.  You can't be on the field all the time without paying a price.  That will change digesting the rhetoric so far this off season.

 

And I am far from a pollyana type I was a pessimist like you seem to be now about the team heading into the last season.  I crapped on Ron and the off season moves all late Spring and summer long.

 

 

Actually I'm not that pessimistic about the team going into the season, I happen to believe if Daniels plays well they could challenge for a playoff spot.  And I totally agree with you on the staff. Where we differ is our assessment of the players.

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Color me not worried about the defense. I expect a top ten type of unit as long as Quinn is here.

 

Kingsbury is the biggest concern for me, and I’m not sure why he gets so much blind optimism from the fanbase. He had one good season in Arizona before the league figured him out. After that he flat out sucked. 

 

The dude was coaching QBs in college which is about the equivalent of Kurt Warner bagging groceries before his return. 
 

I hope he can adapt his second time around, for Jayden’s sake and for the team’s.  
 

 

 

I think that is a little harsh on Kliff's track record.  If you compare his track record to Ben Johnson it won't look great.   But overall his offenses in Arizona were okay.

 

2019

Scoring 16th 22.6 ppg

Yards per game 21st 341.7 ypg

 

2020

Scoring 13th 25.6 ppg

Yards per game 6th 384.6 ypg

 

2021

Scoring 11th 26.4 ppg

Yards per game 8th 373.6 ypg

 

2022

Scoring 22nd 20.0 ppg

Yards per game 22nd 323.5 ypg

 

I would say Arizona's offense in both 2020 and 2021 was above average.   His worst season in Arizona (2022) was about the same as our best offensive season under Rivera.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Joe Barry and Jim Haslett both had long careers. JDR got more chances. ****ty coordinators get jobs all the time. 
 

Kingsbury has a resume. Why not judge him based on results and not based on other people’s opinions of him?

I'm skeptical I just think kingsbury has untapped potential that insiders are more aware of than us.

Whether he is able to tap that potential is certainly questionable. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I got tired of commentators saying it's not true that Cliff does not run the ball as they break out the rushing rank of the Cards. Of course that stat was skewed by Kyler Murray and they didn't really run in a traditional sense with a RB all that often.  

[Tress Is The Way]

Wait wait wait, I come back from my off-season hibernation and I see an active thread talking about kyler Murray? Back to sleep until camp

Edited May 21 by Tress Is The Way

[mac8887]

I’m so excited to see JD5 in action. I’m really thinking that he will do well protecting the ball, and will be a major upgrade over what we’ve had in a long while. Im excited to see if Dotson will be better, I think he will, I know that Dotson had a bad year last year, but I think Jayden throws a much better ball than Sam did, and will do a much better job playing on time in the offense, which should help Dotson. A lot of his drops last year came on extended plays. I think he will do much better with a qb that gets him the ball on time with good ball placement. I think Tmac will most definitely go over 1000 and ertz and eckler will be great red zone targets.

 

If Dotson has a good year and McCaffry blossoms, this offense could be sneaky good, especially if Sinnot turns out to be serviceable early on as well, he’s got a shot to be real good to.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I agree that he’s had time to reflect, but it’s like a lot of people like the hire because they think he runs a “cool and progressive” offense.

 

I watched Zona play plenty. Murray always arguing with Kliff for not getting the plays in on time. False starts everywhere. Missed assignments. Andre Hopkins running nothing but five yard outs for an entire game. It was miserable. 
 

I’m not gonna post anymore on the topic. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. I just don’t understand why there isn’t more skepticism here in regards to his abilities.

I think it’s largely benefit of doubt given it wasn’t all bad for him, Kyler being a PITA, and him no longer having to wear all the hats.  Add to that a solid offensive staff below him, and better leadership above him.  In theory, he should fare better here in this role.

[Conn]

4 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

LOL.  I was one of the last EB defenders. He couldn't have come into a more dysfunctional organization - top to bottom. Owner to coach to drafting to personnel... Sure his play calling sucked and he was too abrasive cry me a ****ing river had 5th round 1st year QB with one start under his belt and not much support. Defense SUCKED. Coach sucked. WRs regressed. Got exactly CRod as the only player on offense in the draft. He did develop Robinson and got plays in on time which apparently can be a thing.

 

So the King sounds relatively unproven but lets blame Kyler and continue with unfounded optimism dammit.

EB sucked horrendously and many of us saw it very very early on and laid out many many reasons why he sucked. If there’s even 1% of you still in defiance about this then you’re still in the wrong on it lol. 
 

Kyler is the only “franchise QB” in league history with a contract where the team protected itself by sneaking in a clause requiring a certain number of hours of tape studying on his own time because he was considered such a risk in the work ethic category, until it was leaked (probably by his agent). I’m meant to believe the communication issues in that gameday offense were due to the famously workaholic playcaller and not the QB who needed the national media to bully his team into removing the work ethic clause in his contract? Nah.

 

There’s a lot of questions rightly being asked about Kliff Kingsbury in here. We’ll see if he can grow into a great schemer and playcaller. The chances have to be higher with all the HC stuff he hated off his plate…but most importantly, this time around he has an experienced staff attracted by and built by Dan Quinn…not built by Kliff Kingsbury. He’s got a lot of help and a massive safety net of experience in his staff, which also has (mostly) a proven talent for player development. So all that right there gives Kliff a better shot than he’s had anywhere else. He can just pour those copious amounts of work hours into designing his offense and gameplanning. Like Chip Kelly, it seems to be where he’s most comfortable.
 

I still think the questions are warranted, but honestly if Daniels is the real deal then that’s going to cover up a lot of sins. Peyton Manning and Aaron Rodgers each covered for some of the worst, most vanilla playcallers in the history of the modern NFL. A stud QB gives you a lot of rope as an offensive mind. The ceiling if Kliff isn’t a joke is sky high. 

Edited May 21 by Conn

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Something to add on Kingsbury, I’ve read numerous reports that indicate Murray as a problem child.  Only made worse by Kingsbury because he was too busy to face it head on, and likely just not in his DNA to be a hardass to a big ego like Murray.

 

From all I’ve read and heard regarding Jaylen, both in college and his few days as a pro - ego and entitlement will not be an issue that Kliff needs to manage.

 

He may never pan out as a play caller, but if he was ever going to- this is the perfect spot for him to do it.

Edited May 21 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[FootballZombie]

I'll keep saying it. I luv the Kliff/JD pairing. Add Johnson in there too. Not a lot of better options out there when it comes to developing dual threat QBs.

 

If Kliff ever booted up Madden and created a character the end result would be dang near a JD clone. He is built to run his offense and is a known study fiend. Its practically a given the hours will be put in. 

 

Kliff probably shed tears of joy on draft night.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Something to add on Kingsbury, I’ve read numerous reports that indicate Murray as a problem child.  Only made worse by Kingsbury because he was too busy to face it head on, and likely just not in his DNA to be a hardass to a big ego like Murray.

 

From all I’ve read and heard regarding Jaylen, both in college and his few days as a pro - ego and entitlement will not be an issue that Kliff needs to manage.

 

He may never pan out as a play caller, but if he was ever going to- this is the perfect spot for him to do it.

 

We should be clear that those reports weren't speculative. They put a video game timeout and study clause into his contract.

[Voice_of_Reason]

On 5/18/2024 at 9:58 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I also like the coaches and talent on defense now better than in 2012.

The screaming idiot is going to come for you.  How dare you disrespect the Haz-man that way!!!! 

[FuriousD]

This is not much of a limb to venture out on but I’ll say it anyway..

 

This will be the best coaching staff we’ve seen here since Gibbs 2.0. 
 

In tandem with the best front office we’ve had since Gibbs 1.0 and all things are possible 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The screaming idiot is going to come for you.  How dare you disrespect the Haz-man that way!!!! 

 

No one loves bad defensive coordinators like Chris Russell.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm still confused.  People are referencing Quinn, what he did in Dallas and how his defense could do that again in Washington. Only he is not the Defensive Coordinator he is the Head Coach and with that comes a lot of responsibility outside of the defense. He is not sitting in a room game planning or is he?   Are we even going to run his defense?  

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

No one loves bad defensive coordinators like Chris Russell.

The reason he likes them is they were his sources.  Also that front office guy who left when Ron came in.

 

The screaming idiot has the football IQ of a kindergartener in Uganda, who has never seen American football

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I'm still confused.  People are referencing Quinn, what he did in Dallas and how his defense could do that again in Washington. Only he is not the Defensive Coordinator he is the Head Coach and with that comes a lot of responsibility outside of the defense. He is not sitting in a room game planning or is he?   Are we even going to run his defense?  

I don’t expect him to trot out the exact same defense he had in Dallas, but he did bring Whitt with him because they share the same vision for what defense looks like.  Beyond that, they’ve added talent.  There are things to be skeptical about with the 2024 team, but defense shouldn’t be one of them.  It’s hard to go anywhere but up from where they were.  I mean the hallmark of JDR’s defense was guys running around confused.  I highly doubt you will see that this season.

Edited May 22 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Chump Bailey]

19 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

I’m not gonna post anymore on the topic. I want him to succeed as much as anyone. I just don’t understand why there isn’t more skepticism here in regards to his abilities.

 

Spot on. I just listened to Matt Harmon & Andy Behrens (Yahoo) discuss that very thing. They listed him as someone in serious need of a reboot career wise. They like the pieces he has to work with especially heaping praise on B Rob and Terry, but they're legitimately concerned about Kliff's role and ability to be successful with his style. 

Edited May 22 by Chump Bailey

[Warhead36]

16 hours ago, mac8887 said:

I’m so excited to see JD5 in action. I’m really thinking that he will do well protecting the ball, and will be a major upgrade over what we’ve had in a long while. Im excited to see if Dotson will be better, I think he will, I know that Dotson had a bad year last year, but I think Jayden throws a much better ball than Sam did, and will do a much better job playing on time in the offense, which should help Dotson. A lot of his drops last year came on extended plays. I think he will do much better with a qb that gets him the ball on time with good ball placement. I think Tmac will most definitely go over 1000 and ertz and eckler will be great red zone targets.

 

If Dotson has a good year and McCaffry blossoms, this offense could be sneaky good, especially if Sinnot turns out to be serviceable early on as well, he’s got a shot to be real good to.

I see Dotson really thriving this year. For one, Daniels throws a softer, much more catchable ball than Howell, which should alleviate some of the drops issues Dotson had(I think he just couldn't mesh with Howell's bazooka every throw playstyle). I also think Kingsbury will utilize space better and get Dotson into positions where he's more likely to produce.