If Josh decides to have the process here in 24, would you be for or against?

[Stihl89]

What I’ve noticed in the splits on rebuilds comes down to 2 camps. One of the camps has two options. 
 

Youre for a rebuild if one or both of these are true in your mind
 

1. youre not sold on Howell being the guy and or elite. Whether you believe the next staff is bringing in a guy regardless or you’re just not as sold to commit long term. 
 

2. You believe that the pillar and foundation of the team is the defensive line and that foundation hasn’t worked and we need to do something else. 
 

If either are true for you, then you should be full on into rebuild mode and open to moving every single piece of the current roster. Sooner the better.

 

I personally want as blank of a slate as possible. Get as many picks and cap space as possible. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Stihl89

[Leonard Washington]

I wonder if our “star” players are poorly utilized or coached.  If they stay here, could they benefit from better coaching or are they ruined by years of bad coaching?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Leonard Washington

[KDawg]

4 hours ago, Leonard Washington said:

I wonder if our “star” players are poorly utilized or coached.  If they stay here, could they benefit from better coaching or are they ruined by years of bad coaching?

I think we have a playing style mix that isn't ideal and affecting the whole. 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think we have a playing style mix that isn't ideal and affecting the whole. 

Agreed. We have a potentially dominant pass rushing DL but our secondary is always playing soft zone overages so they don't have enough time to get there. There is also no scheming of our pass rushes. You don't see exotic stuns or blitz packages. Del Rio doesn't maximize the talent he has up front.

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Agreed. We have a potentially dominant pass rushing DL but our secondary is always playing soft zone overages so they don't have enough time to get there. There is also no scheming of our pass rushes. You don't see exotic stuns or blitz packages. Del Rio doesn't maximize the talent he has up front.

This isn't  quite true. I recall a five man rush against Denver that brought two from the secondary and put Young in coverage. It was a total failure

[ixcuincle]

this year sure. tank for Caleb 

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

I asked this earlier in the year but I think the best route forward is to do a complete rebuild. Tear it down and rebuild from scratch.

 

Whatever players have value trade them. Even if has to be after June 1, for cap reasons. Just completely rebuild. We can do it with Sam or someone else. We are 2-3 years away from being a true contender. Need 2-3 drafts and free agency to build it right. I can accept a couple years of double digit losses; knowing we have the right people in place.

[illone]

Id rather win 1-2 games for two years than continue this middling stuff we’ve become accustomed to. 
 

Burn it down.  
 

 

[KillBill26]

We have looked awful. We are nowhere near a good team right now.  

 

However, I feel like if we improve two areas: offensive line and defensive scheme/play calling/adjustments, it would have a HUGE impact.  I don't think we are as far away as it seems, and I know at this moment after these past couple games, this is not going to be a popular take.

 

We know the coaching staff is gone, so a new defensive scheme / play caller is a given.  If they nail that, and put some high draft picks and FA dollars towards the oline, I think we could potentially have a quicker turnaround than it may feel like right now.

 

So I don't think we need the process, or a complete rebuild.  Hire the right people, get a real GM to infuse some young talent, and if Howell continues to improve, we could have hope sooner rather than later.

[Command The 414]

On 10/6/2023 at 11:46 AM, 88Comrade2000 said:

We all know Josh is cleaning house in January. Once his people are in place, what if they decide to implement the process here?  They decide to completely tear down the roster and do a true rebuild with their own players, they picked. They trade what players have value for draft picks and rebuild. Probably means a couple of bad years but they rebuild it correctly.

 

 

Would you be in favor of this or against it?

 

For me, if braintrust determined this was the best path; I’ll be all for it.

I’d be fine w/that.. cause I’ve said before on here and on the street, other then McLaurin (and recently I’ve changed my mind on Jonathan Allen) and Dotson there’s nobody on this team that can’t be replaced imho, we have 2nd or 3string  guys playing skilled positions… St.Juste is a JV player on a HS team… this team is so far from being a good team….

Edited November 24, 2023 by Command The 414

[glongest]

Going back to the original post, I don't see much to tear down.  

[Warhead36]

The talent difference between us and Dallas is so glaring. I dont think one of our starters would start for Dallas except maybe Payne/Allen. 
 

Nuke it al.

[Rufus T Firefly]

48 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I asked this earlier in the year but I think the best route forward is to do a complete rebuild. Tear it down and rebuild from scratch.

 

Whatever players have value trade them. Even if has to be after June 1, for cap reasons. Just completely rebuild. We can do it with Sam or someone else. We are 2-3 years away from being a true contender. Need 2-3 drafts and free agency to build it right. I can accept a couple years of double digit losses; knowing we have the right people in place.

They should have done that this year. Hire a GM before the year. Move guys like Allen and McLaurin,accept a terrible year. 

 

Think how close we were to losing to Arizona and New England. We'd be wondering if we were picking 1 or 2 right now.

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

They should have done that this year. Hire a GM before the year. Move guys like Allen and McLaurin,accept a terrible year. 

 

Think how close we were to losing to Arizona and New England. We'd be wondering if we were picking 1 or 2 right now.

I said at the time we would regret those early wins and people told me it was too early for such talk. I knew under this last dead man walking season with Rivera, there was no such thing as too early. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, Conn said:

I said at the time we would regret those early wins and people told me it was too early for such talk. I knew under this last dead man walking season with Rivera, there was no such thing as too early. 

I heard you (metaphorically, in reality I read you) and was with you.

 

They were so close to losing those opening two games to bad teams and starting a real tankapalooza. Kind of heartbreaking. 

 

[Veretax]

I'm about ready to clean house.  I'm not sure there is a single coach worth keeping, honestly.

Hardly run the ball at all, can't block, sam under deress. sheesh.

[Captain Wiggles]

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Just completely rebuild. We can do it with Sam or someone else. We are 2-3 years away from being a true contender. 

 

This makes zero sense. We're 2-3 years away from being a contender we just need a complete and total rebuild. How exactly are we close to being a true contender? 

 

This franchise hasn't been a "true contender" in over thirty years. No reason to think it will be fixed in a few offseasons. 🤷‍♂️

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

This makes zero sense. We're 2-3 years away from being a contender we just need a complete and total rebuild. How exactly are we close to being a true contender? 

 

This franchise hasn't been a "true contender" in over thirty years. No reason to think it will be fixed in a few offseasons. 🤷‍♂️

A complete and total rebuild should not take more than 2-3 offseasons if done competently, I think is the point. I didn’t see what he said as mutually exclusive, at least. A smart rebuild doesn’t take 4-5 years

[CjSuAvE22]

I hate to break it to everyone but this is a pipe dream….harris was already noted and worried about ticket sales when they started losing some games early on I have a bad feeling he will be similar to Snyder as an operator of this team just in general a much better human.

[JSSkinz]

I was a little annoyed by Josh laughing it up during the Chicago beatdown but I see he's finally joined the rest of us.

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

On 10/9/2023 at 11:33 AM, MrJL said:

This isn't  quite true. I recall a five man rush against Denver that brought two from the secondary and put Young in coverage. It was a total failure

 

We never saw Young in coverage again after that game if I recall.

 

There's a difference between utilizing your talent and throwing **** against the wall to see what sticks.

[Renegade7]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The talent difference between us and Dallas is so glaring. I dont think one of our starters would start for Dallas except maybe Payne/Allen. 
 

Nuke it al.

 

I have no idea why we keep saying this here for like 20 years now...flabergasted...

 

 

[FrFan]

The "process" has yet to deliver something. So far draft wise it's a failure for the 76ers, they had 5 first round tanking selections resulting in 4 busts (Noel, Fultz, Simmons, Okafor).

Tanking is useless if you're not able to select the proper players. It is going to take at least 5 years of good management to rebuild a competitive team in my own opinion. I hope Harris learned from the 76ers blunders and will adjust his strategy for the sake of this team. In the mean time I wish him good luck.

[Wildbunny]

Yeah, Tanking to get high draft picks does you no good if your scouting department sucks...

 

That's where it all starts. Scouting Department, so that's where you have to invest money.

[abdcskins]

Honestly depends on what your definition of a, "complete tear down," is. If you mean trading all our valuable players for picks, then maybe. You have to understand though that you need a foundation of some sort to progress. You can't just get rid of all your good players. That doesn't even make sense really. As long as the financials are straight, you can keep decent players who can possibly progress and help you win. Howell is a good example. Could we trade him and get maybe a first rounder and second rounder? Sure. But what is the point of that?

 

At the end of the day it comes down to you who do you think is valuable and who isn't.