2024 NFL Draft Position/Tracker - Final Pick #2

[JamesMadisonSkins]

It'll be nice to go into the draft with confidence, for once. Been hard to do under this regime. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Anyone worried about Ron after some "self scouting"?

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Anyone worried about Ron after some "self scouting"?

 

 

 

 

Advising secondary players to practice backpedals in their bathroom mirrors?

 

Maybe...Scale of 1 to 10 I'm a 6 on concern there.

[petey hodge]

Does the season ending shoulder injury to Jamin Davis actually hurt our chances of getting a Too 4 pick in the draft?

 

 

🤣

[goskins10]

27 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Exactly.

 

I always say: don't pass up a Rolls Royce because you own a Toyota.

 

And honestly, Howell isn't even a Toyota right now. That's where he likely projects to be.

 

I like that analogy, but not for the reason you provided it. While Rolls Royce is prettier and shinier and much more expensive, Toyota's are more reliable, esepecially when you consider cost. 

 

If we can get WIlliams or Maye wihout mortgaging our future AND - huge AND here - they they fit into the GM and HCs vision. But if Sam fits thier need and using the draft pick on something else makes more sense than do it, especially if you can trade back and load up on more high quality picks. 

 

I also disagree with your analysis of Sam Howell. Until he is given a NFL Level Oline and a playcaller with some ingenuity we will not know what Sam's ceiiling is. Quick quiz: 

 

Whose stat line is this from their first year as a starter: 

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Commanders LB Jamin Davis is out for the season with a shoulder injury

 

Commanders linebacker Jamin Davis will undergo surgery for a shoulder injury he suffered in the team’s Week 13 loss to the Miami Dolphins and be placed on injured reserve, ending his season early, according to multiple people with knowledge of the matter.

 

 

It’s unclear when Davis suffered the injury; he played 55 of the team’s 61 defensive snaps against Miami. An MRI and two doctors’ opinions confirmed the injury.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/12/11/jamin-davis-shoulder-injury/

 

This has been the most injury free season I can ever remember, and they still suck.  I'd like to see him continue to play to gain experience but the only way he will be missed is because the backups are so terrible.  So I guess this is good news for The Tank.  

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I thought of this angle, the "face of the franchise" that new ownership may consider a must have. What if one of the top QB prospects falls to us and has all of the intangibles plus the skill to succeed as a player. Does that trump Sam's body of work and potential ceiling? It's a poor example but I said it earlier, Portland passed over Michael Jordan because they needed a center. Get the stud if he falls in your lap, especially if he's a QB. We also need to win back a fan base and fill the stadium so I wonder if that'll play into our pick. Not many OT's put jersey's on fans and butts in seats. 

 

Clearly winning is foremost.    But I do think the lack of star power has been a double trouble knife wound for this team for eons.  They are so so or worst and a boring version of it, too.

 

Some star power I think would be a nice bonus.  And before someone rams this point back at me saying my point is that star power is more important than winning -- let me preempt that.  I am saying nothing of the kind.  

 

But I do think an underrrated reason why this team has struggled to keep fans is lack of starpower.  We saw how 2012 changed that for a season.  It's a bit ironic that Daniels has a similar build to RG3, has sick speed like him, won the Heisman just like RG3, etc.   Again, its not a main plot line.  But the idea of adding an exciting Heisman trophy winner with sick mobility -- especially considering 2012 along with watching the Ravens pull fans from the DMV in part because young fans especially (according to some polls) love Lamar -- I'd presume would be seen as a bonus if they like the QB.

11 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

Does the season ending shoulder injury to Jamin Davis actually hurt our chances of getting a Too 4 pick in the draft?

 

 

🤣

 

He's been good in some games this year.  Considering their sad level of depth at LB, it doesn't hurt to have him out.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

16 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Whose stat line is this from their first year as a starter: 

 

Peyton Manning,?

[goskins10]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Peyton Manning,?

 

Good guess but no. It is Troy Aikman. People can say what they want but he is HOF QB. And he started like crap cause he had a ****ty team around him. 

 

This is Peyton: 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by goskins10

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

I always say: don't pass up a Rolls Royce because you own a Toyota.

 

 

An even better option would be surround that Toyota with a couple of F-250s (6.7 diesel please) with the money that you traded that Rolls in for. Add assets, especially at our greatest weak spots. I don't give a rats ass about jersey sales, I care about building a foundation to win with. A good GM should know how to turn assets into a team. We have a good QB and I don't see the value in suddenly dismissing that fact. We also suck at like 17 other positions. Fix those first.

[Skinsinparadise]

[KDawg]

40 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

It'll be nice to go into the draft with confidence, for once. Been hard to do under this regime. 

What gives you confidence that we’ll be able to do that? I have optimism but without knowing who the coach and GM are I can’t say I’m confident in anything definitively. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I think with Sam the question is all about his upside. 

 

If the dude was 6 '4.  Ot if he ran 4.5.  Or if he had a Josh Allen type rifle.  Or Joe Burrow type of college senior season with his level of accuracy.  Then there would be no discussion.  it would be he's shown enough flashes so lets be patient and see what we can build around him.  Heck if we didn't pick top 5, no discussion either because there would be no apples to apples debate.  In a vaccum, i am all for riding this with Howell. 

 

Sam is a baller.  He's tough.  He can make some wicked throws.  He has a good arm.  He has good mobility.  I think he has a good shot to be a good QB.  Question is do we think he's potentially great?  And if not is a Qb in this draft at their pick potentially great?  Simple as that.

 

I got little doubt that if we add some weapons and beef up the O line, Sam would cement himself as a good QB.  But I struggle with great.  I don't see anything that he's great at.  And I am not one of the people on this thread who believes their QB acumen can rival great scouts.  Even though I've nailed some good ones at the QB spot.  Got some wrong, too.   But I don't live and die with my own opinion on arguably the hardest position to scout in all of sports. 

 

So yeah i would trust a new GM to dicipher Sam in a greater way (pun intended) than we can.   Not because good GMs get them all correct.  But they are paid to sweat this decision.  We are not.  Whether i am right or wrong on Howell and or Daniels, it won't effect my life at all.  But it will likely define the new GM's tenure.  So i am hoping that added pressure at a minimum makes that GM do an exhaustive digestion of this scenario.

 

If Josh out of left field hires Bruce Allen Jr., then I'll change my mind.  But so far Josh's decisions has fit his profile to a tee so I am not expecting some odd left field call at the GM spot. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[JamesMadisonSkins]

34 minutes ago, KDawg said:

What gives you confidence that we’ll be able to do that? I have optimism but without knowing who the coach and GM are I can’t say I’m confident in anything definitively. 

 

Anything is better than what we've done in the last 30+ years, but especially the last 4 under Rivera and Co. Just my opinion, I know we can botch the FO this off-season just as much as anything else, but I trust that we'll land a hot/emerging GM given all of the buzz surrounding our new ownership. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Anyone worried about Ron after some "self scouting"?

 

 

 

About as hollow and worthless as the jack-o’-lantern that’s still sitting on my front porch.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Anyone worried about Ron after some "self scouting"?

 

 

 

Yes. Ron will have just enough of an impact that they will win a meaningless game and put us out of draft position.

 

I agree that seems far fetched given how bad we are. But… that’s exactly why it makes sense.

8 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Anything is better than what we've done in the last 30+ years, but especially the last 4 under Rivera and Co. Just my opinion, I know we can botch the FO this off-season just as much as anything else, but I trust that we'll land a hot/emerging GM given all of the buzz surrounding our new ownership. 

I’m not sure I agree without seeing who is put in place. On the surface and by percentages and given Harris’ overall track record: I agree it will be that way. But if I’ve learned anything in my time as a Commteam Red fan it’s that when you expect something… the opposite occurs on a regular and annoyingly consistent basis.

[DWinzit]

The focus for the last 4 games is to play fast...the faster we get done with them, the faster this season and my HC career can come to a close

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

Yes. Ron will have just enough of an impact that they will win a meaningless game and put us out of draft position.

 

I agree that seems far fetched given how bad we are. But… that’s exactly why it makes sense.

 

Why I think they win?

 

A. Bad karma for this organization.  Was hoping that left with Dan and I still think it will but will see

 

B. Ron even if he stayed here enjoys hollow meaningless wins more than even the typical coach.

 

Why I think they won't?

 

A.  This team legit sucks right now and is worse than all 4 teams we are about to play including the Jets

[RWJ]

58 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Good guess but no. It is Troy Aikman. People can say what they want but he is HOF QB. And he started like crap cause he had a ****ty team around him. 

 

This is Peyton: 

 

You know what goskins10, I put this out on another forum and they ripped me to pieces.  I like how you think.  I agree about what you are trying to say here.  Some HOF QBs stunk their first full year and lit it up after that.  This was Howell's first full year under a crappy OL.  He has done well but his OC (EB) also passed the ball a ton and he has passed for the most years or is 2nd or 3rd in that category.  Anyway, as I and others have said it is up to the next GM on if they roll with Howell or go with another QB as there is talent and to be picking in the top 5 doesn't happen often along 3 possible QBs that will go w/in the top 5 to 10 may do very well in their career and better than Sam possibly.  We wait and see what direction the new GM takes us.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

56 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Good guess but no. It is Troy Aikman. People can say what they want but he is HOF QB. And he started like crap cause he had a ****ty team around him. 

That 1989 team was horrendous, Jimmy Johnson's first, and the only win they got was against the 'Skins.

 

They went 1-15, 7-9, 11-5 (2nd NFC East behind Redskins 1991 SB team), 13-3 SB winning team, and then repeated.  

 

It took Jimmy 3 years to go from 1-15 to 11-5 and build a dynasty that if Jerry hadn't screwed it up by parting ways with Jimmy, could have won 5 SBs in a row.  Thank you Jerry Jones and your enormous ego.

 

56 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

This is Peyton: 

 

Look at the attempts for Peyton. He was averaging 35 passes a game as a rookie.  

 

Howell has 509 now.  That's an average of 39 a game.  If he stays on pace for 16 games, he would have 624.  For 17 games, 663.

 

4 passes more per game doesn't seem like a lot.  But it's 68 more passes over the season.

 

I'd like to see him get t0 660 attempts.  That would be almost an extra 2 games of passes in his first year starting than Peyton got.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Why I think they win?

 

A. Bad karma for this organization.  Was hoping that left with Dan and I still think it will but will see

The football Gods will smile on us. 

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

B. Ron even if he stayed here enjoys hollow meaningless wins more than even the typical coach.

It's crazy how much he cares about the useless stuff.  

 

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Why I think they won't?

 

A.  This team legit sucks right now and is worse than all 4 teams we are about to play including the Jets

Dallas is almost certainly going to have something to play for in week 17.  #1 see, Division, it all could be on the line.

 

Here's the way they could win, but I don't think they will do it: Throw caution to the wind and fling the ball all over the field.  A few good things could happen.  Some bad things will happen.  IF the good things are more than the bad things, they might win a game 34 - 30.

 

I think Ron has firmly pressed his finger on the scale and told EB he wants the Hallock game plan: runt he ball, win 17-15.  

 

The problem: Ron doesn't realize his defense is going to give up 30 no matter what. 

 

So we'll lose a lot of games 34-15.  Which overall makes me happy.

 

What angers me about it is it's going to depress Sam's value to either us or another team.  Which makes me grumpy.  

[skinsfan66]

Ron is doing some scouting in his free time? First of all on that, does he not get his drafts could end up the teams worst ever for this team? Us fans would turn on the new ownership group in a milli second if Ron stayed in some capacity. I just read an article that Sweat was just quoted as saying, it is so different in Chicago everybody is on the same page versus were he just came from with everybody just trying to get the season over with.  I think the team had quit on Ron long ago and does he really think that anything he does from here on out will benefit the team. I wish he would just shut up and move on from here on out. In the end he turned in to a failure just like the rest of Dan's picks. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, petey hodge said:

Does the season ending shoulder injury to Jamin Davis actually hurt our chances of getting a Too 4 pick in the draft?

 

 

🤣

Nah. I think he’s actually decent. Not nearly as bad as he was as a rookie.

[Rufus T Firefly]

32 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Dallas is almost certainly going to have something to play for in week 17.  #1 see, Division, it all could be on the line. 

Disclaimer for anyone else reading this - it is absolutely untrue. VOR keeps posting it, I am sicking of pointing out that it is wrong and him ignoring it. At this point, he clearly just wants to post something false.

 

Realistic best case is Dallas goes into that game knowing they would need the Giants to beat Philly for their game with us to matter The same scenario that happened last year and which we saw led to them sleepwalking through the game because they knew there was no real chance of that happening.

 

But for even that scenario to transpire, Dallas needs to beat Buffalo, Miami and Detroit three games in a row, two of which are on the road. Which anyone with any sense would not call "almost certain."

[FootballZombie]

The vast majority of these HOF QBs that stunk early and turned it around were afforded the opportunity to do that because they were high cost assets that the team would do everything in their power to try and turn a profit on.

 

Look at Bryce Young. Dude has been pretty much trash this year, but there is 99% the Panthers roll him out next year regardless.

 

 

Howell does not fit into that category. He does not have the luxury of putting up Bryce Young numbers and be handed subsequent seasons (he is not doing that, just saying he can't). Peyton, Troy and Bryce can.