Next Day Thread: Denver

[Rocky21]

Robinson was a grown ass man out there yesterday.

 

Best game he’s played in a while for us.

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

If you miss you’re down 12. If you make it (the xp) you’re down 11. There’s a lot of time left. A lot can happen with the score in that timeframe. I don’t like possibly putting us down two touchdowns.

 

I do understand the penalty being a factor there, though. It worked. So I’m wrong. But if it didn’t work I guarantee you the amount of people who were okay with it would have shrunk by about 90%.

 

Yeah, but if you miss early you have exactly that: A lot of time left and you know what you need to do in that time. If you postpone the 2-point conversion and miss later, you have a lot less time to make up for that mistake. And the chances of success/failure mathematically stay the same in each situation (if we disregard the penalty that tremendously increased the chances of success for us). Let's say you are down 11 and in scoring position twice and and you kick a FG on 4th and short first to make it a one score game and then get back late in the game and score the touchdown but miss the 2-point conversion, you have wasted a prime opportunity with the FG because you banked on getting the 2-point conversion later and then might run out of time.

 

I think the second argument you made is kind of pointless. Because that decision has to be made under uncertainty before the snap. So it doesn't make sense to go back and question the original decision based on the actual outcome. You have to go back to the decision before you knew the result to evaluate whether it was the right decision or not. If you flip an uneven coin one time and heads shows up 55% of the time and tails 45%, picking heads was the right decision - regardless of whether it ultimately lands on tails. Because if you keep making the rational decisions, you will more often end up winning than losing even though there are obviously situations where you will lose - especially in one shot games.

I think yesterday was one of the few times where Ron made the right call in these situations. But I also remember how everyone went for Ron's head when we were down 14 and he went for 2 points after scoring the first TD last season - which is the rational decision.

[Warhead36]

Ill never be upset with being aggressive. The big coaching gaffe was attempting a 59 yard FG wth an inconsistent K and a bad LS. Punt and play field position.

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Gibson is good in space. That move he put on that one run(or screen can't remember)was quite nifty. Just gotta get him away from the traffic. Good on Bienemy for figuring that out pretty quick. 

For the love of god, why did it take all these years for this to happen?

 

That was always his strength and a big part of why they drafted him as early as they did. 

 

Thank you EB, along with not just run 3 times up the middle then punt as soon as we had a lead.

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think it was Barton.  Heads up play for him to jump on it so quick, because I don't think anyone else around the ball saw it come out.

Nice to read something positive about him.

 

The parts of the game I was able to see showed poor play from Barton. Late on the seen, like more of chase and tackle guy and not able to move through blockers. I have not been pleased with him through 2 weeks. 

 

Did I miss it, was he decent yesterday?

 

@KDawg really like your comments on underappreciated "momentum" and Howell.

[Leonard Washington]

Why is Barton on the field and Davis on the sidelines during passing situations?  It looks like Cody is moving in slow motion. Sometimes he is position and can’t make the play because he takes too long to break down. 
 

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, Panninho said:

 

Yeah, but if you miss early you have exactly that: A lot of time left and you know what you need to do in that time. If you postpone the 2-point conversion and miss later, you have a lot less time to make up for that mistake. And the chances of success/failure mathematically stay the same in each situation (if we disregard the penalty that tremendously increased the chances of success for us). Let's say you are down 11 and in scoring position twice and and you kick a FG on 4th and short first to make it a one score game and then get back late in the game and score the touchdown but miss the 2-point conversion, you have wasted a prime opportunity with the FG because you banked on getting the 2-point conversion later and then might run out of time.

 

I think the second argument you made is kind of pointless. Because that decision has to be made under uncertainty before the snap. So it doesn't make sense to go back and question the original decision based on the actual outcome. You have to go back to the decision before you knew the result to evaluate whether it was the right decision or not. If you flip an uneven coin one time and heads shows up 55% of the time and tails 45%, picking heads was the right decision - regardless of whether it ultimately lands on tails. Because if you keep making the rational decisions, you will more often end up winning than losing even though there are obviously situations where you will lose - especially in one shot games.

I think yesterday was one of the few times where Ron made the right call in these situations. But I also remember how everyone went for Ron's head when we were down 14 and he went for 2 points after scoring the first TD last season - which is the rational decision.

I was fine with Ron going for 2 last week.

 

Whether my second point/argument is pointless or not is irrelevant. We miss, people are pissed. We make it and people will defend it. It’s how this works. I didn’t like going for two. You did. It’s okay for us to feel differently. It worked out well for us in the end.

[Koolblue13]

Percy Butler still stinks.

[KDawg]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Percy Butler still stinks.

Yeah he’s not very good. Our safety/slot cb depth is non existent. Hopefully we stay healthy.

[FootballZombie]

45 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Drive1 -  RPPPPPP(MissedFG)

Drive2 -  PRPRPPPPPP(FG)

Drive3 - RPPPu

Drive4 - PPPPu

Drive 5 - PPRPRRPRRPPPP(R-2P)

Drive 6 - PPPPPPP(FG)

 

I'll chock it up to growing pains in that EB has to learn that passing w/ reckless abandon is also a good way to pass yourself into oblivion.

It felt bad watching it, but seeing it mapped out... that is all kinds of dumb.

 

bleh

 

EB and JDR must have gotten a hold of some of them magic shrooms before they put together their gameplans this week. They were both awful and are hopefully yeeted into the sun.

[DWinzit]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Yeah he’s not very good. Our safety/slot cb depth is non existent. Hopefully we stay healthy.

Strange as I thought we would be decent here  

 

 

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

Just think what this team would be like if we spent/drafted OL, I put that one on Rivera's stubbornness. Not taking anything away from a great comeback victory but not investing in our OL will come back and kick us in the ******** moving forward. 

You mean instead of the Quan Martin pick?

[MartinC]

28 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

For the love of god, why did it take all these years for this to happen?

 

That was always his strength and a big part of why they drafted him as early as they did. 

 

Thank you EB, along with not just run 3 times up the middle then punt as soon as we had a lead.

Nice to read something positive about him.

 

The parts of the game I was able to see showed poor play from Barton. Late on the seen, like more of chase and tackle guy and not able to move through blockers. I have not been pleased with him through 2 weeks. 

 

Did I miss it, was he decent yesterday?

 

@KDawg really like your comments on underappreciated "momentum" and Howell.

 One thing that stood out was the amount of mesh/shallow cross they ran to attack our backers.  I think we will continue to see a lot of that - you don’t need to be genius to see that’s a weakness.

 

Denver didn’t pass a lot until second half but Barton was picked on a bit in coverage yesterday.

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 One thing that stood out was the amount of mesh/shallow cross they ran to attack our backers.  I think we will continue to see a lot of that - you don’t need to be genius to see that’s a weakness.

 

Denver didn’t pass a lot until second half but Barton was picked on a bit in coverage yesterday.

Thanks!

It is a little hard to see this when Barton was selected as the player that could handle exactly that. Through training camp we heard countless times,"he is having difficulty learning the new system". WTF, is that a nice way of saying he is an idiot or he is not what we thought he was and kinda sux? I really wish they had grabbed a LB at some point on day 3.

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 One thing that stood out was the amount of mesh/shallow cross they ran to attack our backers.  I think we will continue to see a lot of that - you don’t need to be genius to see that’s a weakness.

 

Denver didn’t pass a lot until second half but Barton was picked on a bit in coverage yesterday.

I think we can stop pretending that the LBer position has been devalued and isn't as important.

 

You need at least one above average LBer to be a dominant defense.

[KDawg]

12 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Strange as I thought we would be decent here  

 

 

I like Quan. I don’t see an immediate impact with him. He’s gonna need time. And Butler hasn’t been good. He’s another guy that needs time.

 

Strategy with personnel is lacking.

[Professor_Nutter_Butter]

Guys, I'm glad I turned off the game after Denver was up big. Clearly me doing that saved the team. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Guys, I'm glad I turned off the game after Denver was up big. Clearly me doing that saved the team. 

I was hammered and hit the couch when we were down 21-3. Woke up totally out of it around 3am and had no idea what happened. Had to rewatch it this morning.

 

[MartinC]

23 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

Guys, I'm glad I turned off the game after Denver was up big. Clearly me doing that saved the team. 

You realize you are never allowed to watch again right? Those are just the rules. 

[Rex Tomb]

28 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I like Quan. I don’t see an immediate impact with him. He’s gonna need time. And Butler hasn’t been good. He’s another guy that needs time.

 

Strategy with personnel is lacking.

Definitely. Spent a 2nd rounder in a guy that is not ready for prime time.  Reminds me, to a lesser extent, of the Jamin Davis pick.  They keep drafting guys high that are not ready to contribute.  We could have picked up a lineman in the second.  Cuz Leno is awful.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I was feeling very 88ish in the first half and for good reason.  The team was so flat.  I believe @Skinsinparadise confirmed the sideline had a pathetic vibe in comparison to that of the Broncos pregame.  Even the DL looked lethargic and uninterested.  It had all the makings of an absolute rout.  A rout that gets a 4th year head coach fired.  
 

But then…

 

After Jamin’s fumble performed CPR, the egregious cheap shot laid on Logan - the team had life again.  
 

I thought Rivera made the correct call in going for 2 with the 1 yard advantage.  What really made it for me though was the fire he showed on the sideline when the team was awarded the 2 points.  I wanted to leave him in Denver but he won me back over there.  Thank the lord, they won the game though because that 59 yard FG attempt seemed insane given what he knows about his LS and kicker.

 

Howell- aside from me yelling at him to let it go or take off running, it’s all gravy with him.  His OL failed him early and he showed the first signs of being shaken a bit.  Bounced back and hit some big time throws that we haven’t seen since Kirk.

 

EB- HALF TIME ADJUSTMENTS!!! Going back to the lab and coming out heavy on the run was exactly what the doctor ordered.  Couldn't be happier with him.

 

Leno - oof.

 

Chase- Wasn’t real happy to see him getting ridden up the field and out of the play as we’ve seen too often before.  But he helped wreck the game when it mattered most and was happy to see it.  We need lots more where that came from.

 

Forbes - Perhaps I’m in the minority here, but even with the pick - I still have my concerns.  I realize that ball hawks tend to boom or bust on a play by play basis, and perhaps I need to just accept that.

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Simmsy]

They're trying hard to defend Wilson and blame it on the last play of the game, but forget about all of the other bad calls that extended many Denver drives.

 

 

[markmills67]

56 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

You mean instead of the Quan Martin pick?

Not just the Martin pick, but our last couple of 1st round picks, of which 1 should have been on the OL, plus signing other teams castoffs to start doesn't help. Howell is going to get injured playing behind that OL sooner rather than later. 

[Going Commando]

We were pass heavy in the first half because we fell behind big on the scoreboard and kept falling behind the chains because our runs kept getting 2 yards.  You don't get to have play calling balance under those conditions.  But we dug out of the hole, and in addition to that we softened up their defense in the second half and were finally able to run it on them.

[KDawg]

Just now, Going Commando said:

We were pass heavy in the first half because we fell behind big on the scoreboard and kept falling behind the chains because our runs kept getting 2 yards.  You don't get to have play calling balance under those conditions.  But we dug out of the hole, and in addition to that we softened up their defense in the second half and were finally able to run it on them.

You can. You start with more of an emphasis on a balance. 
 

This is an issue two weeks in a row. A pattern. 
 

It’s not condemning. He’s getting a feel for this roster still. 

[MartinC]

The only coaching decision I really disagreed with was the 59FG attempt. That was dumb IMO. 
 

The D was playing well at that point. Punt, pin them deep and get the ball back in good shape.