Game Day Thread - Preseason: The Commanders vs. The Ravens - The Commanders Strike Back!!!

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I am not looking for the next Mahomes.  But if he's Kirk level or Carr or name that 10-14 level QB, that's enough for me for now.

 

Howell is more talented than Kirk.  Kirk is a grinder with a pretty deep ball, but Howell is a much more dynamic player.  His arm is better, and his legs are way better.  He has a real shot to be a significantly better player than Kirk IMO.  If he hits his ceiling here, he'll be able to carry a much bigger load for the offense.

 

The chances of Howell hitting his ceiling also took a major upswing here this off-season, with the hiring of Bieniemy.  We can't overstate how important it was to bring in a coach with five years of expertise in coaching and developing a dynamic young quarterbacking talent.  He brought all of that experience with Mahomes into our building, and Howell is going to end up being a little baby version of him.  It's awesome.  And Bieniemy is also installing the best passing scheme in the NFL for us, and you can already see that impact in the preseason play of our receivers, tight ends, and quarterbacks.

 

What I've been far less impressed by is the run game.  I am trying not to be swayed by the moment, but I'm sorry, BRob has not been that impressive.  TBH, he looks really slow.  The line still can't run block, but Gibby has been the better and more useful weapon and he's been running harder.  I think Robinson is OK, and still contributes well in the protections, and there is no doubt he will be useful in short yardage, but I was hoping for much more than a situational player from him.  I thought he was going to be a stud in the passing game.  We have to be sparing with Gibson's usage to keep him effective, so we're going to need Robinson to be good this year.  Hopefully he gets faster.

[Simmsy]

13 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I fell asleep in the 3rd quarter because I had to drive into the office this morning.  I woke up and saw we won on the news this morning, and can’t lie - didn’t love the celebration myself.  At the end of the day, I don’t think it really means anything good or bad - just seemed a bit excessive.

 

The Ravens took this seriously, I don't see why we can't either. So many people on this board wanted us to treat this like a real game because the Ravens do as well. We do that, come out on top when we're not expected to and we can't be happy for our success? Like I said, I could see the national peeps saying this, but our own local guys dumping on this is nitpicking and ridiculous. Let the players and fans be happy for a few hours...what a bunch of buzz kills.

 

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

EB debating the others who are discouting Howell because he's a 5th rounder.  And they are touting how other no name QBs have had good preseason games, too.

 

The 5th round stuff for me is so passe.  And to me its about traits.  This isn't like watching Colt McCoy float passes around the field.  Howell can zing it and he can move. 

 

Yeah, I think I'm gonna switch this off...

[-9-]

26 minutes ago, Chris 44 said:

I think everyone has had Josh Johnson at some point.

 

 

[tmandoug1]

Sam looked good last night.....Sept. 10th his 20 game test will begin. Can't wait to see him grow into a 500 million dollar QB and buy us all a steak!

Josh Harris is my kind of guy.......good football, good booze!

Edited August 22, 2023 by tmandoug1

[Going Commando]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can live with it though.  For a QB he has four variables I treasure.

 

A.  Accuracy

B. Arm Strength

C. Quick Twitch

D. Mobility

 

Yep, and two other traits that are important that he's demonstrating are clean decision making and great vision.  Sam is smart and he has been right on top of his reads, and he's been in great sync with Bieniemy.  He looks like he's got comprehension of what Bieniemy is trying to do with his playcalls and designs, and he's executing well.  I bet their communication is really good.  He also seems to have taken well to the leadership duties of his position, and has been very even-kieled while still maintaining an aggressive mentality.  Even as an outside observer, it's palpable that he's winning the trust of the team.

 

The whole field vision is the biggest difference I'm seeing between where he is now, and where he was the final season at UNC.  He is seeing the coverages really well right now, and that is a mark of his comfort and confidence being in a much better place.  My number one concern with him as a prospect was that I didn't think he saw the field well that year, and he did a poor job reading and managing his pressure.  He's grown from then, and he's going to keep growing and having a generally positive trend with more experience.

 

Another thing I wanted to add is that there are different reasons QBs hold the ball for a long time in the pocket.  When it's happening because they're not seeing the field well and it's taking too long to make their decisions, it's bad.  When it's happening because they're reading the pressures and coverages well and they're waiting for their best options to uncover to make big plays, it's good.  Quarterbacking is an art, and it typically takes a ton of experience to develop that instinct for timing in all of the situations they face, but so far Sam looks good.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Howell is more talented than Kirk.  Kirk is a grinder with a pretty deep ball, but Howell is a much more dynamic player.  His arm is better, and his legs are way better.  He has a real shot to be a significantly better player than Kirk IMO.  If he hits his ceiling here, he'll be able to carry a much bigger load for the offense.

 

 

My point was I'd take that 10-14 level QB and be happy with that.  As for Kirk and Howell.  Keim likes to compare them because of work ethic, quick twitch throwing, accuracy.  But after that there are differences.

 

My comparison.  Kirk is taller so in theory that should give him a vision edge.  Both put good air on the deep ball and throw a catchable deep ball.  I recall saying that on the draft thread before we drafted Howell.   We've had some QBs here with strong arms but threw flat deep balls and weren't accurate with them.  Kirk throws an accuate deep ball so does Howell.

 

Howell has better mobility, indeed.  Stronger arm, too albiet Kirk's arm is plenty strong enough.  Kirk maybe with the quicker relase.  Personality wise -- according to Keim, Kirk was much more vocal in practices and Howell is more quiet.  I think both though are quiet/more introverted guys by nature.  Both uber religious and like to talk about the subject.  I think Howell comes off more relatable than Kirk.  

 

Both are tough.  I think Howell has more baller in him. 

 

For now, I like what i've seen from Howell but as far as "signficantly" better than Kirk versus better -- we are talking then top 5 caliber guy.  I'd love that but I don't want to pin that level of hope on him that he's the next Josh Allen, etc.

Edited August 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Darrell Green Fan]

My takes:

 

I thought Howell looked great. I don't understand another saying he was more impressed with his last game.  He threw a ton of short easy throws last week, this week he was hitting those 15 yard throws over the middle that I have been calling for.  His throw to convert a first down after the sack was special, he fit it into a tight window. The TD to Brown looked like an amazing adjustment on the fly as the play called for a throw to the deep corner.  He is well aware that he is taking sacks he should not be taking and I look for that to improve. But as posted earlier with a mobile QB they will take more sacks because they believe they can escape every time and make a play. Later in the game it appeared that he was going to take another bad sack but he escaped and made a play.,

 

The OL's pass blocking was really encouraging.  The run blocking was and will remain poor but given the choice with a young QB I'll take good pass blocking. But I still have my doubts about this group, they were not blocking the Eagles starting DL.

 

Jacoby Brissett was downright awful, I look for that to improve but hopefully we won't need him. 

 

I didn't care about breaking the streak. Until it looked possible, then I got excited at the end of a preseason game with something called Jake Fromm at QB. That was pretty cool.  

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Darrell Green Fan

[ixcuincle]

Impressed by the new Commanders PA voice who does the Wizards games too. Looking forward to making it out to a game soon!

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep, and two other traits that are important that he's demonstrating are clean decision making and great vision.  Sam is smart and he has been right on top of his reads, and he's been in great sync with Bieniemy.  He looks like he's got comprehension of what Bieniemy is trying to do with his playcalls and designs, and he's executing well.  I bet their communication is really good.  He also seems to have taken well to the leadership duties of his position, and has been very even-kieled while still maintaining an aggressive mentality.  Even as an outside observer, it's palpable that he's winning the trust of the team.

 

The whole field vision is the biggest difference I'm seeing between where he is now, and where he was the final season at UNC.  He is seeing the coverages really well right now, and that is a mark of his comfort and confidence being in a much better place.  My number one concern with him as a prospect was that I didn't think he saw the field well that year, and he did a poor job reading and managing his pressure.  He's grown from then, and he's going to keep growing and having a generally positive trend with more experience.

 

Another thing I wanted to add is that there are different reasons QBs hold the ball for a long time in the pocket.  When it's happening because they're not seeing the field well and it's taking too long to make their decisions, it's bad.  When it's happening because they're reading the pressures and coverages well and they're waiting for their best options to uncover to make big plays, it's good.  Quarterbacking is an art, and it typically takes a ton of experience to develop that instinct for timing in all of the situations they face, but so far Sam looks good.

 

Decision making is big, I agree.  That's part of the reason why I ripped the idea at the time for trading for Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen.  I dove deep into both players watching a bunch of both their college and pro games and I was shocked at how many errant throws they got away with in college.  it wasn't hard to see that it won't work for them the same way in the pros.

 

I think vision and decision making go hand in hand.  For example I didn't think Darnold or Rosen were stupid.  And they had some enticing traits.  But I just don't think they see the field well. 

 

Howell seems to see the Matrix so to speak.  Though I don't want to go over the top and jinx him.  

 

Zampese apparently mentored Howell all last season.  They'd work on his foot work among other things after practice on a regular basis.  And part of what Keim among others have been impressed with is the progress Howell made in that time.  Part of the reason why Keim compares Howell to Kirk is work ethic.  They have that obsessive desire to succeed.   

Edited August 22, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

The way Howell is playing isn't some revelation. This has been the way he's played since he was at UNC. 

 

I understand a lot of folks weren't aware of that because they don't study the draft or watch college ball, and that makes sense.

 

But it's amazing how some folks who do those things didn't see it. Like scouts. 

 

How well will Howell do in season? We'll see. A lot to do still. But this is who he's been. 

[CobraCommander]

8 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

Impressed by the new Commanders PA voice who does the Wizards games too. Looking forward to making it out to a game soon!

Yeah but I feel like he should be quiet on the first down call when we are in hurry up. Seemed to me like it distracted the offense and led to that  awful false start during the 2 minute drill. 

[Tress Is The Way]

21 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

My takes:

 

I thought Howell looked great. I don't understand another saying he was more impressed with his last game.  He threw a ton of short easy throws last week, this week he was hitting those 15 yard throws over the middle that I have been calling for.  His throw to convert a first down after the sack was special, he fit it into a tight window. The TD to Brown looked like an amazing adjustment on the fly as the play called for a throw to the deep corner.  He is well aware that he is taking sacks he should not be taking and I look for that to improve. But as posted earlier with a mobile QB they will take more sacks because they believe they can escape every time and make a play. Later in the game it appeared that he was going to take another bad sack but he escaped and made a play.,

 

The OL's pass blocking was really encouraging.  The run blocking was and will remain poor but given the choice with a young QB I'll take good pass blocking. But I still have my doubts about this group, they were not blocking the Eagles starting DL.

 

Jacoby Brissett was downright awful, I look for that to improve but hopefully we won't need him. 

 

I didn't care about breaking the streak. Until it looked possible, then I got excited at the end of a preseason game with something called Jake Fromm at QB. That was pretty cool.  

 

 

It's because he wears khakis

[PlayAction]

Its progress.  But, I look at the Ravens positional strength and makes me appreciate the importance of a quality GM structure.  

[zCommander]

 

 

[Going Commando]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For now, I like what i've seen from Howell but as far as "signficantly" better than Kirk versus better -- we are talking then top 5 caliber guy.  I'd love that but I don't want to pin that level of hope on him that he's the next Josh Allen, etc.

 

For me, where QBs fall in top ten rankings where they are placed against each other is largely a product of situations.  If Jalen Hurts can be universally considered a top five QB at this point in his career, despite his very basic feel for the passing game, then Sam can too if the situation around him provides for it.

 

Kirk is a fairly smart QB who is tough and resilient and super competitive and he has basically squeezed every ounce of potential and money and success out of football that he could.  He's a consistent enough player to be reliable and lead his teams to wins.  And I do think he has the true gift of throwing deep.  But he is a lanky athlete with limited strength, speed, agility, and playmaking instincts.  His arm talent is average by the standards of the NFL, and his decision making has always been a bit up and down.  He needs good pockets and great weapons, and he needs a ton of coaching.  This is a very difficult grind for him, and he's generally going to be the nail and not the hammer in his football career.

 

Things come easier and more naturally for bigger talents like Howell.  He's a much stronger and faster athlete, and he can do all of the crazy arm throws and scrambles and win off schedule like the QBs with first round ability.  I know he got picked in the fifth round, but I think that was a draft day fluke and he had legit first round ability, whereas Kirk never did.  Howell is not going to need the kind of management and surrounding talent to operate a highly productive offense too, which is good because we don't have the kind of talent on offense that the Vikings have.

[Skinsfan1311]

15 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

Yeah but I feel like he should be quiet on the first down call when we are in hurry up. Seemed to me like it distracted the offense and led to that  awful false start during the 2 minute drill. 

Agreed, but it's preseason for him too 😉

[skinny21]

Random thoughts…

 

Loved Howell’s work.  Definitely still up in the air for the oline though - don’t think we got any questions answered, though they did protect well.  He did hold the ball at times and it’s gonna be a balance, especially against tougher dlines.  Hopefully the oline continues to gel and afford him decent time.

 

A little worried about McLaurin - a toe injury isn’t great for a receiver.

 

I’m intrigued by Potoa’e.  He got some good reviews and then had that nice pressure.  If he plays more of a 3 tech and Mathis/Ridgway are both suited to more of a nose tackle role, I wonder what happens there.

 

On the timeout called on Slye, the line judge came over to Ron, said something, Ron responded back, and it looked like the ref said “damn it” and “sorry”.  Don’t know what happened exactly, but I don’t think RR was trying to ice Slye, lol.

 

Seems to me that Wildgoose has been struggling.  Both games I noticed him a number of times, and not for good reasons.

 

I like the look of Tinsley, but didn’t see much separation either.

 

Mayo showed up a fair bit.

 

Loved the end result from Quan on the int play, but it was a rough start and I haven’t seen much from him otherwise.

 

 

@BatteredFanSyndromeThe game had a lot of late drama, which I think fed big time into the celebration.  Even Troy was saying it was probably the best preseason game he’d ever seen.  And it was in front of our newly energized fans, which might have added a little spice

 

 

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can live with it though.  For a QB he has four variables I treasure.

 

I think he has pretty good field vision too. And I'll add that his chemistry with all of his main weapons seems to be very good already. Between Dotson and T-Mac they may both have big seasons because of how well Sammy spreads the wealth with his vision and poise. 

[kingdaddy]

27 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Random thoughts…

 

Loved Howell’s work.  Definitely still up in the air for the oline though - don’t think we got any questions answered, though they did protect well.  He did hold the ball at times and it’s gonna be a balance, especially against tougher dlines.  Hopefully the oline continues to gel and afford him decent time.

 

A little worried about McLaurin - a toe injury isn’t great for a receiver.

 

I’m intrigued by Potoa’e.  He got some good reviews and then had that nice pressure.  If he plays more of a 3 tech and Mathis/Ridgway are both suited to more of a nose tackle role, I wonder what happens there.

 

On the timeout called on Slye, the line judge came over to Ron, said something, Ron responded back, and it looked like the ref said “damn it” and “sorry”.  Don’t know what happened exactly, but I don’t think RR was trying to ice Slye, lol.

 

Seems to me that Wildgoose has been struggling.  Both games I noticed him a number of times, and not for good reasons.

 

I like the look of Tinsley, but didn’t see much separation either.

 

Mayo showed up a fair bit.

 

Loved the end result from Quan on the int play, but it was a rough start and I haven’t seen much from him otherwise.

 

 

@BatteredFanSyndromeThe game had a lot of late drama, which I think fed big time into the celebration.  Even Troy was saying it was probably the best preseason game he’d ever seen.  And it was in front of our newly energized fans, which might have added a little spice

 

 

I'm concerned with our linebackers in the run game. Baltimore had lots of runs right up the gut in the 1st half. Wouldn't surprise me if we scoop up a LB who gets cut or placed on someone's practice squad. 

[HTTSkins]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yep, and two other traits that are important that he's demonstrating are clean decision making and great vision.  Sam is smart and he has been right on top of his reads, and he's been in great sync with Bieniemy.  He looks like he's got comprehension of what Bieniemy is trying to do with his playcalls and designs, and he's executing well.  I bet their communication is really good.  He also seems to have taken well to the leadership duties of his position, and has been very even-kieled while still maintaining an aggressive mentality.  Even as an outside observer, it's palpable that he's winning the trust of the team.

 

The whole field vision is the biggest difference I'm seeing between where he is now, and where he was the final season at UNC.  He is seeing the coverages really well right now, and that is a mark of his comfort and confidence being in a much better place.  My number one concern with him as a prospect was that I didn't think he saw the field well that year, and he did a poor job reading and managing his pressure.  He's grown from then, and he's going to keep growing and having a generally positive trend with more experience.

 

Another thing I wanted to add is that there are different reasons QBs hold the ball for a long time in the pocket.  When it's happening because they're not seeing the field well and it's taking too long to make their decisions, it's bad.  When it's happening because they're reading the pressures and coverages well and they're waiting for their best options to uncover to make big plays, it's good.  Quarterbacking is an art, and it typically takes a ton of experience to develop that instinct for timing in all of the situations they face, but so far Sam looks good.

His first year at UNC he made plays like a senior; not worried at all about Sam

[RandyHolt]

I would have sworn I saw Babe Laufenberg on the field last night. Literally and figuratively. #TwasTheShrooms

[RandyHolt]

Sure last night may have been our Super Blow but dammit that felt good. Players come and go but us decades long fans have taken it on the chin loyally following the biggest assholes team maybe in all of sports. History. And poorest run team in all of sports history. Can anyone recall a home stadium overrun for years like ours?? Not to overplay it but PDSD among us wouldn't surprise. We are HARDCORE fans and the bigger we were sucked in the harder we fell.

 

Prepubescent Dan Stress Disorder is real folks. Drink in the victory for it is how we shall hail. Heal.

Edited August 22, 2023 by RandyHolt

[Darrell Green Fan]

Was I the only one who saw the interview with Josh Harris as, um, awkward?  He shook Buck's hand when he was simply making a hand gesture, Troy chuckled.  

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think that's partly a function of him trusting his mobility and that he can dodge pressure and make plays down the field.  I was discussing the same point with another poster who expects Sam not to take many sacks because of his mobility and the reliance of the quick game.  Yeah the quick game will help to some extent. 

 

But the mobility can cut both ways as to sacks.  Some mobile QBs do tend to take a large number of sacks because they trust their ability to hold on to the ball a bit longer. 

 

Also younger QBs naturally have a learning curve as to setting protections.

 

I can live with it though.  For a QB he has four variables I treasure.

 

A.  Accuracy

B. Arm Strength

C. Quick Twitch

D. Mobility

Assume you mean physical variables above. The mental aspect is key - ability to process quickly and decision making make or break QBs. Howell seems to be doing that well - albeit against vanilla ish defenses.

He looks calm in the pocket and generally in control out there. Good signs. 
 

He has missed a couple of blitzes and taken sacks he didn’t need to so that’s something to watch. I’m assuming Gates is setting protections so hard to know exactly who was to blame for the sack he took on a blown protection last night. This is an area Sam will develop in. 

[CobraCommander]

53 minutes ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

Agreed, but it's preseason for him too 😉

I just really hope this is something that was noticed and addressed. This organization has been far too complacent under Danny and the little things like this went unchanged.