Welcome to the Commanders Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

[KDawg]

This regime likes to use first rounders as scapegoats. But the irony is… they picked them. It isn’t the player’s fault.

 

Edit: Every regime makes draft errors. I am not necessarily saying the FO isn’t allowed mistakes (though they make too many roster building ones)… more that they shouldn’t use the players they pick as scapegoats as often as they do. It doesn’t help with their reputation.

Edited October 9, 2023 by KDawg

[DWinzit]

Ron and JDR were childishly giddy when they found out Forbes was still available for their selection.

 

And @Skinsinparadise, loved the Candy Land over chess reference/comparison!

Edited October 9, 2023 by DWinzit

[philibusters]

I am a bit down on Forbes, but compared to the sentiment in this thread, I am part of the Forbes bandwagon.  I honestly still think the most likely scenario is he develops into a solid starter.  Right now if I went into the hindsight thread, I definitely would not take Forbes, but I do think people are overreacting quite a bit.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Ron and JDR were childishly giddy when they found out Forbes was still available for their selection.

 

And @Skinsinparadise, loved the Candy Land over chess reference/comparison!

 

Thanks I stole the line from Ozark. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

17 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I honestly still think the most likely scenario is he develops into a solid starter.

Why?

 

I’ve asked this from numerous folks and all I get is that he had a lot of picks in college.  Nothing about what they’ve seen since he’s had to compete against professionals.

 

The keyword in you statement is ‘develops’ which is going to be tough.  Word is this was JDR’s handpicked guy.  JDR is gone come January.  He’ll need the next regime to believe in him and hire a strong secondary coach to build him up. 

[NewCliche21]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks I stole the line from Ozark. 

 

The one I find myself using here is, "I don't know **** about ****."

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

This regime likes to use first rounders as scapegoats. But the irony is… they picked them. It isn’t the player’s fault.

 

Edit: Every regime makes draft errors. I am not necessarily saying the FO isn’t allowed mistakes (though they make too many roster building ones)… more that they shouldn’t use the players they pick as scapegoats as often as they do. It doesn’t help with their reputation.

 

This logic is indisputable but doesn't work with wives about their husbands TRUST ME

[kingdaddy]

48 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Why?

 

I’ve asked this from numerous folks and all I get is that he had a lot of picks in college.  Nothing about what they’ve seen since he’s had to compete against professionals.

 

The keyword in you statement is ‘develops’ which is going to be tough.  Word is this was JDR’s handpicked guy.  JDR is gone come January.  He’ll need the next regime to believe in him and hire a strong secondary coach to build him up. 

I want JDR fired but I'll say this as a possible explanation to why they thought Forbes and his interception history were a perfect fit for this team: they thought for sure that the d-line would be a nightmare for opponents and that Forbes would help them/benefit from QB's under duress. 

Did anyone see the Niners defense last night, specifically their LB's? They are ballhawks and fly all over the field. Total opposite of what our LB's do. Others have said it and it blows my mind, we have a head coach and DC who both played LB yet we have terrible linebackers and don't blitz nearly enough. Didn't RR play for Buddy Ryan? Does he remember any of the 4-6 defense and how it attacked QB's? 

[wit33]

On 10/7/2023 at 10:58 AM, Koolblue13 said:

The default for Alt thing was a joke. I don't think us losing out and picking high will be intentional. I think it will be because our garbage coaches losing the team.

 

And the "position flex" thing can get flushed with Rivera and his trash roster management.

 

I want a LT who locks the position down for the next 12 years. I don't give two ****s if he plays anywhere else on the line.

All things equal, your support of the Giants off season approach is in shambles and appears worse off than Washington. Washington has assets and cap flexibility immediately, no matter what takes place this season. Remain agile when not having an elite QB. 
 

It’s damn hard in the NFL without an elite QB. I know you know this, but reminder is needed from time to time on this board. Atrocious game and my foundation of support for this season is teetering, but I’ve watched NFL long enough to know it can change quickly or remain mediocre like most of the NFL lol. 
 

Your idea of aiming higher and thinking bigger in terms of front office and coach I own having complete negative bias and have grown to be a skeptic unless an elite QB is attached to it. I dislike what the Sixers have done, so that gives me some pause, but hey if Harris can help find an Embiid at QB, I’m game for playoffs in most seasons.

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

In many of our humble opinions they were playing Candy Land not chess in that draft as to how they handled it.  And yes we are amateurs at this and that's what makes this more damning.  I'd say half the people at least who participate in that draft thread could have done a better job than the "brain trust" at a minimum in the context of helping Ron win in 2023.

 

 

There we go, own the position that you and the bunch could do better than Ron and company. 
 

Lets eliminate evvvvverything else that goes on behind the scenes. Even at the high school level of coaching basketball (15 player team) it can be difficult managing players and goes beyond just talent to make it all work. 
 

Not absolving blame, it’s a win or go home season for Ron. 
 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by wit33

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

There we go, own the position that you and your bunch could do better than Ron and company. 
 

 

 Excuse me… I am no one’s bunch, sir.

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 Excuse me… I am no one’s bunch, sir.

It’s Monday and I’m ready to move the conversation another direction  Changed it to the bunch lol

[philibusters]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Why?

 

I’ve asked this from numerous folks and all I get is that he had a lot of picks in college.  Nothing about what they’ve seen since he’s had to compete against professionals.

 

The keyword in you statement is ‘develops’ which is going to be tough.  Word is this was JDR’s handpicked guy.  JDR is gone come January.  He’ll need the next regime to believe in him and hire a strong secondary coach to build him up. 

 

I don't think it will be convincing to you, but

 

1.  College Tape:  He started three seasons at Miss St. in the SEC against the best competition in college football.  That included starting as a true freshman and he was a good starter all three years and a great starter his last season.

 

2.   He had a strong training camp.  I think people hear what they want.  One poster said he had had a phenomenal training camp, another said he struggled against the Ravens.  I don't think either is true.  He was not phenomenal, he had his wins and losses, but he looked like a starter caliber player.  In terms of the Ravens, he took his losses, but all DB's take losses in the WR-DB drills.  In the 11 v 11 and 7 v. 7 against the Ravens he held his own even though he took some losses.  He had a decent preseason and a decent game against the Cardinals to open the season.

 

3.  Listening to the beat reporters, particularly Keim, I think a lot of the issue is just lack of fundamentals.  Going back to the Eagles game, Keim broke down his bad plays play by play.  A lot of his just better fundamentals.  For example one time when he was in man defense, he sneaked a look at the QB and QB snapped the ball when he was taking a peek.  By the time Forbes got his head back around the receiver had already got the release on him the receiver wanted.  In man to man coverage, there is no need to sneak a peek at the QB.   He just needs to get better at the fundamentals.   I think his confidence is a bit down, but that will go back up in time.

 

4.  He has some very nice physical tools.   He is 6'1 with 32.5 inches arms so he has idea length.  He has ideal top speed (4.35).  He change of direction is top notch (an advantage of being 170 pounds).  Yes he lacks strength and size and that will hurt him, but he does have some elite tools, so he just needs to learn to play to maximize the tools he does have and minimize the tools he lacks.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It’s Monday and I’m ready to move the conversation another direction  Changed it to the bunch lol

Is the direction that Forbes weighs 61 pounds?

[Skinsinparadise]

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

There we go, own the position that you and the bunch could do better than Ron and company. 
 

Lets eliminate evvvvverything else that goes on behind the scenes. Even at the high school level of coaching basketball (15 player team) it can be difficult managing players and goes beyond just talent to make it all work. 
 

Not absolving blame, it’s a win or go home season for Ron. 
 

 

 

My memory is good for some of your points because as @KDawg articulated well recently you go outside the lines of the typical take here so having people like that helps the debates otherwise we'd all being echoing each other.

 

On that theme, I recall years back a post where you challenged whether I or anyone here could do better with personnel than Dan Snyder.   You were passionate at defending Bruce Allen's work.

 

So yeah that idea that no one here can even dream of having a draft this year that matches Rivera.  I get it.  Rivera is 10 times smarter than Dan and at least 5 times smarter than Bruce.

 

But to answer your point, many of us actually say who we would take and why BEFORE the draft.  For example, while Devon Achane is burning up the league for the Dolphins.  I actually took that same player in the mock draft the board did for the Dolphins.  Again BEFORE the draft. 

 

While some are talking about how did the league miss out on Ivan Pace, some here me included where all over wanting Ivan Pace BEFORE the draft.

 

We talked about the depth in the draft at CB before the draft.  We talked about how thin the depth was at the O line before the draft. 

 

Would I want me or anyone here running the draft.  Of course not that's ridiculous.  Maybe though @Koolblue13?  But most of my point is if jokers like us can do better than this regime as to the 2023 draft -- at least in the context of helping this team now.  It doesn't reflect well on this regime.  As I said its not about us bragging, its 100% about taking a shot at this FO. 

 

I can feel the anger in your posts.  My 2 cents is I'd recommend chilling.  I've been consistent with count on an inconsistent run.  Cool highs.  Low lows.  8-9 ride.  Ron's seasons aren't linear.  Some good times ahead, I'd bet where you could crow for a week or two.   But as I told you in a recent post I wouldn't live and die with anything yet.  It changes week to week especially with this team.

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

My memory is good for some of your points because as @KDawg articulated well recently you go outside the lines of the typical take here so having people like that helps the debates otherwise we'd all being echoing each other.

 

On that theme, I recall years back a post where you challenged whether I or anyone here could do better with personnel than Dan Snyder.   You were passionate at defending Bruce Allen's work.

 

Bruce’s tenure was bad. I often would argue it as being mediocre, especially during the Kirk seasons. I’ll take the L and admit he was bad not mediocre. 
 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So yeah that idea that no one here can even dream of having a draft this year that matches Rivera.  I get it.  Rivera is 10 times smarter than Dan and at least 5 times smarter than Bruce.

 

No clue how many times smarter each are than the other. Gets into the weeds a bit for me.

 

I believe most of us would do just as well as Dan Snyder unless one of us would’ve hit on an elite QB. 

 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But to answer your point, many of us actually say who we would take and why BEFORE the draft.  For example, while Devon Achane is burning up the league for the Dolphins.  I actually took that same player in the mock draft the board did for the Dolphins.  Again BEFORE the draft. 

 

While some are talking about how did the league miss out on Ivan Pace, some here me included where all over wanting Ivan Pace BEFORE the draft.

 

We talked about the depth in the draft at CB before the draft.  We talked about how thin the depth was at the O line before the draft.

 

 

I get it, there are guys I hit on relating to NBA potential in most seasons. 

 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Would I want me or anyone here running the draft.  Of course not that's ridiculous.  Maybe though @Koolblue13?  But most of my point is if jokers like us can do better than this regime as to the 2023 draft -- at least in the context of helping this team now.  It doesn't reflect well on this regime.  As I said its not about us bragging, its 100% about taking a shot at this FO. 
 

 

Don’t feed the ego of @Koolblue13 

 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can feel the anger in your posts.  My 2 cents is I'd recommend chilling. 
 

 

Zero anger until this second sentence, but I will manage lol

 

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been consistent with count on an inconsistent run.  Cool highs.  Low lows.  8-9 ride.  Ron's seasons aren't linear.  Some good times ahead, I'd bet where you could crow for a week or two.   But as I told you in a recent post I wouldn't live and die with anything yet.  It changes week to week especially with this team.

 

 

No crow at this point, I’m on side of requiring playoffs without an elite QB. My foundation of belief is cracked after that monstrosity of a game. Absolutely cannot happen, but it does happen from time to time to most teams during the season. Hopefully they can bounce back. 
 

You are one that has engaged over the years, so I feel I can come at you more than others. I own having attachment to points of view and philosophical stuff relating to how things are done in the NFL, but very little towards posters (especially you).
 

All in fun and in spirit to discuss and debate man…. Always! 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

 

No crow at this point, I’m on side of requiring playoffs without an elite QB. My foundation of belief is cracked after that monstrosity of a game. Absolutely cannot happen, but it does happen from time to time to most teams during the season. Hopefully they can bounce back. 
 

You are one that has engaged over the years, so I feel I can come at you more than others. I own having attachment to points of view and philosophical stuff relating to how things are done in the NFL, but very little towards posters (especially you).
 

All in fun and in spirit to discuss and debate man…. Always! 

 

Ok sounds good.  Nothing personal on my end either -- the angst is pointed towards the people in charge.

 

My angst with Ron is different than Bruce, Dan, etc.  As a dude, i totally respect him.  Good person.  High character.  Bruce and Dan weren't just incompetent but were sleazy.

 

I don't think Ron is incompetent, I think he's OK at his job.    He does more good than bad.  But for me its not just good enough.

 

As for this season, I doubt the Bears game ends up defining.  It would be on brand for them to beat Atlanta and then lose to either the Patriots or Giants.  Maybe they even beat the Eagles.   It's not a linear ride.  Ups and downs but I expect it to end around 500.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

[wit33]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Ok sounds good.  Nothing personal on my end either -- the angst is pointed towards the people in charge.

 

My angst with Ron is different than Bruce, Dan, etc.  As a dude, i totally respect him.  Good person.  High character.  Bruce and Dan weren't just incompetent but were sleazy.

 

Totally agree. Hated the culture during those years, it’s actually a HUGE a reason why I was so high on Alex Smith and AP to a lesser degree. They provided an identity, culture, and brand of football to get behind that rose above the mess behind the scenes for bits and pieces of seasons. Professionals!
 

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think Ron is incompetent, I think he's OK at his job.    He does more good than bad.  But for me its not just good enough.

 

I am not at a much different position than you are in regards to Ron, early on I was tougher on Ron than most, but I’m a sucker for continuity and do like the talent on the roster. 
 

EB is the first dude since the Shannahans in that he seems to have a vison in how to get things done aggressively and gives Washington a shot at escaping mediocrity. He’s old and head strong enough (I believe) to not let simpletons residue of average talk (Ron and fans) get in his way to become dynamic. 
 

He’s my only hope outside of continuity or an elite QB to escape mediocrity. And who knows what his future holds 😕 

 

People calling for his head have lost their minds IMO. The most dynamic the offense has been since Kirk in-between-the 20s and the RG3 season. 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for this season, I doubt the Bears game ends up defining.  It would be on brand for them to beat Atlanta and then lose to either the Patriots or Giants.  Maybe they even beat the Eagles.   It's not a linear ride.  Ups and downs but I expect it to end around 500.

Not sure many rosters can expect to be much better than .500 without an elite signal caller. It happens all the time, but to expect it is another story. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'd feel better about Forbes if I didn't just have a sub for lunch that is bigger than he is.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Not sure many rosters can expect to be much better than .500 without an elite signal caller. It happens all the time, but to expect it is another story. 

 

I get the point.  But I'll use the 49ers as an example.  They went to town on defense.    And their defense is killer good.   Purdy is a 7th round pick but he's good enough on a team with stars like Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, McCaffrey.

 

Ron IMO isn't in the 49ers league as a GM.   Howie Roseman moves up and down the draft and builds draft capital and created a loaded roster in short order during Ron's tenure.  He steps on the gas and is creative.   He found his franchise QB in a draft that Ron could have taken the same guy -- but from what I can tell Ron wasn't into Hurts.

 

Ron hurts himself with his own rheotric explaining why he didn't dig Tua and Herbert in that draft while in an indigant fashion said he looked at the anayltics himself and that's why he wanted Wentz.

 

I just don't see how Ron is going to take us to the promised land.   He makes some good moves.  He makes some good picks.  But he doesn't strike me special at his job.  He doesn't seem to have a sense of urgency.  As far as QBs hopefully Sam is the guy.  Otherwise I am not sure i trust this regime to find that next guy -- and that's not because I think they are bad at their job, its because I think they are just OK.  

 

Back to your point if you want to win with defense takes the lead old school style -- then actually do it. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just got off the phone with my friend who lives in Tegucigalpa. He told me that down there, Emmanuel Forbes is known as El Busto and every morning, the Honduran school children sing songs about El Busto and how terrible he is.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

@philibusters On my phone, it’s too difficult to quote bits and pieces, so I’ll just respond here.  I appreciate you providing some color beyond “it’s only been 5 games.”, like most others.

 

I’ll start by saying that I didn’t loathe the Forbes pick when it occurred.  Didn’t love it, was a bit of a head scratcher with Gonzalez on the board - but didn’t hate it.  So I’m not starting from a place of bias.  I respect the level of competition in the SEC and his college tape.  
 

As for his camp and preseason, from everything I heard at best - it was a mixed bag.  I wanted to hear that it was great, so not really hearing what I wanted.

 

I guess for me, my skepticism that he’ll ever be a solid starter is rooted in his lack of physicality that is very obvious against NFL talent.  To the extent that he must be an elite, game changing ballhawk to earn a spot as a solid starter.  To be so behind in the fundamentals coupled with what looks to be some maturity/mental issues is of major concern for someone drafted in the 1st round.  Add to that less than desirable coaching, and what is likely to be a regime overhaul.  Beyond that, it’s rare you see a player struggle so badly without flashing what made them a first round pick, ever become remotely worth where they were drafted.

 

[skinsmania123]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just don't see how Ron is going to take us to the promised land.   He makes some good moves.  He makes some good picks.  But he doesn't strike me special at his job.  He doesn't seem to have a sense of urgency.  As far as QBs hopefully Sam is the guy.  Otherwise I am not sure i trust this regime to find that next guy -- and that's not because I think they are bad at their job, its because I think they are just OK.. 

Very solid points about Ron. Some of his egoic statements surprised me until I thought about it some more.  For example, and I am paraphrasing here, that they could fire him and then they could send him his super bowl ring, next year, when they win or something to that effect.  And then of course we have Sideline Stoic Ron.  It looks like a bit of a contradiction to people.  But isn't it really the same Ron. He chose his DC and his OC.  And I think he views them as extensions of himself because he chose them.  One of things I was wondering about the other day is does he make the choice any longer to "go for it" and play Riverboat or is he leaving that decision to EB as his OC and Assistant Head Coach? 

 

  My main question is when it comes to the GM category who could build this team properly, who comes to mind? What is the talent pool available? Would we have to lure a GM away from a current team?  Could we do that?  

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

 

  My main question is when it comes to the GM category who could build this team properly, who comes to mind? What is the talent pool available? Would we have to lure a GM away from a current team?  Could we do that?  

 

Usualy its not a GM on another team but their underlings.  

 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/12/31/future-general-managers-week-17-preview

 

 

Ed Dodds, Colts assistant GM: Long seen as one of the NFL’s premier evaluators, Dodds was seen as a secret weapon of Seattle GM John Schneider’s, before Ballard swiped him from the Seahawks upon arriving in Indy. Since then, he’s become Ballard’s right-hand man as the Colts have built one of the NFL’s most talented rosters. Dodds interviewed with the Panthers and Lions last year, and was very high on Robert Saleh’s list of potential GMs had Saleh not landed in a place with a sitting GM.

 

Joe Hortiz, Ravens director of player personnel: The Ravens’ longtime college scouting director moved into Eric DeCosta’s old role when DeCosta replaced a retiring Newsome, and still runs the draft while serving in a more comprehensive capacity. Given how Baltimore has continued to be innovative and forward-thinking as an organization, on just about every front, Hortiz should be well-positioned to get his shot soon.

 

Jeff Ireland, Saints assistant GM: Ireland’s draft record since landing in New Orleans has been incredible—since knocking it out of the park in 2016 and ’17 on draft day, the Saints have consistently fielded one of the NFL’s most talented rosters. The ex-Dolphins GM interviewed for the Detroit and Carolina openings last year, and is very well-connected in the sport.

 

Mike Borgonzi, Chiefs assistant GM: Originally brought aboard by ex-Kansas City GM Scott Pioli, Borgonzi steadily rose through the organization, then was held over by Andy Reid and John Dorsey. Under Pioli, the Brown alum got experience on the ops side, served as the team’s pro scouting director, and as Brett Veach’s No. 2 has more recently been involved on the college side, too.

 

Brandon Brown, Eagles director of player personnel: Part of Howie Roseman’s robust scouting department, Brown’s primary experience is in pro scouting. But he’s done more with the draft over the last year, and has a really interesting background, with a law degree and a job in college football compliance giving him a good ability to see the big picture organizationally.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

 

Darius Slay weighs 25-30lbs more than Forbes.

 

And yeah, size matters. Anybody who tells you otherwise is trying to compensate for being small.  

[mojo]

I'm convinced some rival team's fan has created a voodoo doll of Emannuel which they poke and prod on Sundays causing such awful play on the field.  I'm also convinced that doll weighs more than Forbes himself.