Welcome to the Commanders Emmanuel Forbes CB Mississippi State

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the point.  But I'll use the 49ers as an example.  They went to town on defense.    And their defense is killer good.   Purdy is a 7th round pick but he's good enough on a team with stars like Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, McCaffrey.

 

Ron IMO isn't in the 49ers league as a GM.   Howie Roseman moves up and down the draft and builds draft capital and created a loaded roster in short order during Ron's tenure.  He steps on the gas and is creative.   He found his franchise QB in a draft that Ron could have taken the same guy -- but from what I can tell Ron wasn't into Hurts.

 

Ron hurts himself with his own rheotric explaining why he didn't dig Tua and Herbert in that draft while in an indigant fashion said he looked at the anayltics himself and that's why he wanted Wentz.

 

I just don't see how Ron is going to take us to the promised land.   He makes some good moves.  He makes some good picks.  But he doesn't strike me special at his job.  He doesn't seem to have a sense of urgency.  As far as QBs hopefully Sam is the guy.  Otherwise I am not sure i trust this regime to find that next guy -- and that's not because I think they are bad at their job, its because I think they are just OK.  

 

Back to your point if you want to win with defense takes the lead old school style -- then actually do it. 

I often use the Titans as well for this argument. This is why I’m able to get behind an Alex Smith type offense as well, I believe it provides a high floor and an ability to consistently beat the other 70-80% of mediocre teams. 
 

EB style offense allows Washington opportunity to hang 31 points against an elite team like Eagles on a day when the defense couldn’t provide enough resistance for four quad. 

Not tied down to any model, but will always prefer the aggressive all-in approach that provides a higher ceiling in most situations. No down or distance seems is out of the question. 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, wit33 said:

I often use the Titans as well for this argument. This is why I’m able to get behind an Alex Smith type offense as well, I believe it provides a high floor and an ability to consistently beat the other 70-80% of mediocre teams. 
 

EB style offense allows Washington opportunity to hang 31 points against an elite team like Eagles on a day when the defense couldn’t provide enough resistance for four quad. 

Not tied down to any model, but will always prefer the aggressive all-in approach that provides a higher ceiling in most situations. No down or distance seems is out of the question. 
 

 

 

Whether its PFF, the players ranking their own guys, All Pro votes, personnel guys, you name it picking the top 100 players in the league -- we rarely have much representation.  Trent was always in the mix back in the day.  But otherwise we'd have a dude ranked like 85, sometimes two players, sometimes 1, sometimes none.

 

we need a FO who can draft game changers.  Elite players.  We draft some very good players but rarely the best of the best, a top 5 player at their position, etc.  Guys like Kam Curl are special to us fans.  But the rest of the league consider other safeties as special not him.

 

Part of the reason why I wanted Chase Young was he came off like a dude who would be top 5.  It hasn't happened yet but it still could.

 

The best players on this team are arguably from Jay's era.

 

I watch a dude like Devon Achane yesterday and he looks special.  Heck Christian Gonzalez preinjury hyped as special.  Darrisaw who they passed over at LT for Jamin Davis is borderline special.  Ivan Pace doesn't grab them.  But he grabbed me and several others here.

 

They seem to have a good eye to find good players.  I don't think this FO has a good eye to find special talent. 

[The Rook]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

They seem to have a good eye to find good players.  I don't think this FO has a good eye to find special talent. 

 

Using last year's draft, I think they lost their "eye" for even good players. 

 

I really believe drafting woes goes all the way back to the decimation of the scouting department by Commander Dan.  The rebuilding of that department should be a priority starting now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[wit33]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Whether its PFF, the players ranking their own guys, All Pro votes, personnel guys, you name it picking the top 100 players in the league -- we rarely have much representation.  Trent was always in the mix back in the day.  But otherwise we'd have a dude ranked like 85, sometimes two players, sometimes 1, sometimes none.

 

we need a FO who can draft game changers.  Elite players.  We draft some very good players but rarely the best of the best, a top 5 player at their position, etc.  Guys like Kam Curl are special to us fans.  But the rest of the league consider other safeties as special not him.

 

Part of the reason why I wanted Chase Young was he came off like a dude who would be top 5.  It hasn't happened yet but it still could.

 

The best players on this team are arguably from Jay's era.

 

I watch a dude like Devon Achane yesterday and he looks special.  Heck Christian Gonzalez preinjury hyped as special.  Darrisaw who they passed over at LT for Jamin Davis is borderline special.  Ivan Pace doesn't grab them.  But he grabbed me and several others here.

 

They seem to have a good eye to find good players.  I don't think this FO has a good eye to find special talent. 

Devon Achane gets lumped in with Trent after a few weeks of highlights? I get your point and agree talent has been a struggle at Mrs with Washington. Imagine Devon Achane in Tennessee lol. Good fit in Miami! 
 

This is why uniquely talented OCs who are sometimes trailblazers are paramount, in my view. EB leans me in direction he will have Washington fans excited about a player, two or three by the close of the season. 

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Devon Achane gets lumped in with Trent after a few weeks of highlights? I get your point and agree talent has been a struggle at Mrs with Washington. Imagine Devon Achane in Tennessee lol. Good fit in Miami! 
 

This is why uniquely talented OCs who are sometimes trailblazers are paramount, in my view. EB leans me in direction he will have Washington fans excited about a player, two or three by the close of the season. 

 

I think you are taking the point too literally.  When do we hear about OUR players leading the league in this or that. Maybe Achane ends up sucking but for now he looks great. 

 

It's not debatable that multiple regimes here especially this one has struggled to find elite players.  It's not easy to do but we basically hardly ever do it. 

[Thinking Skins]

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

Well, that worked spectacularly given the bears rushed 32 times for 178 yards (5.6) per carry.  

 

It that truly was their game plan, they failed spectacularly on multiple levels.  They didn't stop the run and they didn't stop the pass.  

 

EDIT: if they switched back to cover 2 and couldn't stop the run because Cody Barton sucks, that's on Jack, Ron and Marty for not getting a better LB. 

 

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Voice_of_Reason

[wit33]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think you are taking the point too literally.  When do we hear about OUR players leading the league in this or that. Maybe Achane ends up sucking but for now he looks great. 

 

It's not debatable that multiple regimes here especially this one has struggled to find elite players.  It's not easy to do but we basically hardly ever do it. 

It’s scheme and a player thing for me. I get what you’re saying though. 
 

In EBs scheme, I project cool individual stats will take place. 

[RVAskins]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't think this FO has a good eye to find special talent. 

I think a big reason for this is that the previous owner didn't spend money to make our scouting department a good one. He didn't seem to value it which is crazy. I think he had dreams of being a Jerry Jones and calling the shots but he failed miserably when he did that.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

It’s scheme and a player thing for me. I get what you’re saying though. 
 

In EBs scheme, I project cool individual stats will take place. 

 

I cite the Dolphins because their previous FO approach felt similar to ours with similar results.  High floor-lower risk players.  They have swung big and it seems to be working for them.  That's another team among others who rebuilt their team during Ron's years here but faster and better -- pun intended.

 

I have a close Dolphins friend who is absolutely giddy about his team. He can't even believe it because like us he was so used to mediocrity or less.

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

I think a big reason for this is that the previous owner didn't spend money to make our scouting department a good one. He didn't seem to value it which is crazy. I think he had dreams of being a Jerry Jones and calling the shots but he failed miserably when he did that.

 

I think its part of it.  I think the other part of it is Ron seems to like to shoot for higher floor players in the draft -- he's conservative in his approach. 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[NewCliche21]

36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

<snip>

 

I think its part of it.  I think the other part of it is Ron seems to like to shoot for higher floor players in the draft -- he's conservative in his approach. 

 

And he sucks at it. That's a big thing, he may have a good/principled approach, but Ron just sucks at it from what I've seen so far.  And I'm a Ron guy, but man, it's not good.

[Captain Wiggles]

Quote

Dolphins have all 7 of NFL’s fastest top speeds. Hill has 1st, 4th, 6th. De’Von Achane has 2nd, 3rd, 7th. Raheem Mostert has 5th:

 

That must be nice. 😒

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

 

The stupidity and arrogance of Del Rio is something else.  This was his ****ing plan after the Eagles, Bills, and Broncos absolutely shelled us?  This is horrible coaching, and this is why our DBs are struggling.

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Going Commando said:

 

The stupidity and arrogance of Del Rio is something else.  This was his ****ing plan after the Eagles, Bills, and Broncos absolutely shelled us?  This is horrible coaching, and this is why our DBs are struggling.

I honestly don't put this on him any more. I think this is above him. I think Ron wants turnovers more because they win games and the #analytics people are taking about it. So he is probably stressing JDR to change his highly  crafted scheme to do this. And it's not working. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I honestly don't put this on him any more. I think this is above him. I think Ron wants turnovers more because they win games and the #analytics people are taking about it. So he is probably stressing JDR to change his highly  crafted scheme to do this. And it's not working. 

I doubt Ron is dictating in-game adjustments.  It’s been said by multiple sources that Forbes was Del Rio’s guy, and you draft Forbes for picks not man coverage and tackling.  
 

I’d be surprised to learn any gameplanning or strategy is at the direction or Ron.  Never seen a coach that appears and sounds more hands off than Ron, particularly of late.  When I attended camp, I said to my son that if you didn’t know any better, you wouldn’t even know who was in charge.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Stone Cold]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Standard Washington bs.  We draft these ballers, then make them fit their olaymaking abilities into the confines of a system.  A barbaric one at that.  We never alter coaching to maximize talent.  We’re not creative.  We’re not ready to compete with teams that do this and do it well.  Come on offseason

Edited October 9, 2023 by Stone Cold

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

On 10/8/2023 at 6:04 PM, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’d never call a player a bust after 5 games.

 

[CTskin]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:35 PM, Captain Wiggles said:

 

Why? That move resulted in Dotson, Howell, Robinson, and Turner. That might be one of the better moves this franchise has made in decades. 🤷‍♂️

There are so many possible scenarios where we could have drafted all of them if we didn’t make that 1st rd trade… 

 

and listen I love BRob, his story is legendary, but he was a reach. He’s solid, but he’s not special. 

[MrJL]

12 minutes ago, CTskin said:

There are so many possible scenarios where we could have drafted all of them if we didn’t make that 1st rd trade… 

 

and listen I love BRob, his story is legendary, but he was a reach. He’s solid, but he’s not special. 

he was only a third round pick

[lavar1156]

 

[Stihl89]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I think its part of it.  I think the other part of it is Ron seems to like to shoot for higher floor players in the draft -- he's conservative in his approach. 

He tried to go after big coaches. Those are something he can sell. I think he didn’t invest in the FO cause he could envision an ROI on things like coaches and players. That’s what he spent money on. Left everything else a mess. Food for the players. World smallest gym. Terrible FO. I’ll never forget this interview Jay had in like 2016 at the combine. He had mentioned that just that season they finally were able to get player cut ups for film study. They could only watch each game and just rewatch it and find out who was in the game on each snap 

[KDawg]

We tried a few different things against Chicago and none of them worked defensively. Our scheme is questionable but our talent is severely lacking. 
 

And that is on this front office. When you use 6 first round picks and two seconds on the defense you cannot have results like these. 
 

I was no Holcomb fan (though I didn’t think he stunk, either) but if Barton was the alternative Holcomb was a much better choice for the couple million extra. Barton was a hope and a prayer and didn’t align with what we do defensively. 
 

Back to scheme, I think the biggest difference schematically is when we started to bring a little heat. That changes the timing of things and gets the offense a little off balance. Sitting back and letting them decide on what to do based on the number of safeties and our lack of discipline is a losing formula for this crew. 
 

Our talent just doesn’t match up well enough with one another. Sweat and Young do a lot of the same things… that may seem helpful but it’s not. They both rush the passer but are just okay against the run as edge protectors. That leaves both edges vulnerable and we are asking the two ILBs to scrape and help cover that space. But as soon as they flow to it the runner can adjust and head towards the middle. 
 

I think our edges are a bigger problem than we like to acknowledge. So is our LB talent. And our secondary just can’t cover for that given their lack of discipline this year. 

[RandyHolt]

If JDR signed off on Forbes and can't use him he needs to go. Will Jackson and his 9M cap hit says, remember me?  Oh and Landon Collins and hit 5M cap hit say hello too.  SSDD.

 

RR and JDR are clearly joined at the hip and its time to rip those 2 apart. Sure many agree its too early to ****can Ron but its not too soon to ditch JDR after his continual failures to field a functional D to start seasons. Name an interim coach - Ill be fine with Kerrigan - I guarantee he cannot do worse than JDR. JDR lost the room 16 months ago and its the elephant in that room. Just don't name anyone with the last name Del Rio or Rivera from the assistant pool. They can go too actually.  Heads are going to roll with Harris in town we all know it.  It's time for a foot to be put down. Harris doesnt need to wait 3 more months to evaluate JDR - the book is written. Does Harris want to try to win this year, has anyone asked?  We assume he does but assumption is the mother of all **** ups.

 

Drafting Forbes and then not being able to use him to his strengths is a draft and coaching disaster.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2023 by RandyHolt