2023 NFL Draft Watch and Post Thread - The Hangover Special

[Warhead36]

Bust can differ based on where a guy is taken. If Forbes only ends up being like a 3rd or 4th CB, then he's a bust. On the flip, if Henry or Rodriguez develop into backups, its a successful pick.

 

I think Forbes will be good. Martin? Meh, so so. Stromberg will be okay. Rest will probably flame out but I could see Rodriguez carving out a career as a short yardage/goal line type back.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Has Rick Snider summarized the draft in 2 minutes yet?  I can’t wait.  

[ntotoro]

“Gimme two minutes and I’ll tell you this draft was mediocre, but give me another two minutes three years from now to tell you how is really is… ‘

Edited April 30, 2023 by ntotoro

[HigSkin]

9 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Has Rick Snider summarized the draft in 2 minutes yet?  I can’t wait.  

 

😂

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Matt Bowen, smart guy, and understands the secondary especially the safety spot very well

 

NFL draft 2023: Best prospects at 53 different skills

Best deep-field range: Jartavius Martin, S, Illinois

Martin can match in coverage, and he's an explosive mover with good speed. His 4.46-second run in the 40-yard dash ranked third among safeties at the combine, and we see him open and run well on tape. His deep range fits as a center fielder or Cover 2 safety in the league. Martin can cover some grass here. One of the most versatile defensive backs in this year's class, he logged 12 pass breakups and three interceptions for Illinois last season.

 

Top ball hawk: Emmanuel Forbes, CB, Mississippi State

Forbes has the play instincts to get a jump on the throws, and his long frame creates more on-the-ball opportunities. In three seasons at Mississippi State, Forbes recorded 14 interceptions and 18 pass breakups. And six of those interceptions went for touchdowns the other way. He's a playmaking coverage corner with the 4.35 speed to track the ball at the third level.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/36147742/nfl-draft-2023-best-prospect-every-skill-top-traits-accuracy-speed-strength-instincts-blocking

[NoVaSkins21]

4 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

😂

 

 

We are so lucky to have our local Mel Kiper Jr. with a lot less hair and a lot more LBs

Edited May 1, 2023 by NoVaSkins21

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Was away on a golf trip from Thursday until last night, but tuned in from the bar.  I can’t possibly digest all of this thread.

 

Can someone point me to the section where we gripe about not taking a tight end?

[Chump Bailey]

Mitch Tinsley is a good signing IMO.

[Skinsinparadise]

By far the worst team in the division that’s nuts 

The Giants have become the hipster team with the national media and we remain super uncool

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

By far the worst team in the division that’s nuts 

The Giants have become the hipster team with the national media and we remain super uncool

 

 

Well, I had a hard time accepting all the happy B grades.

I do think a C is more realistic, D is harsh.

[Cool Hwhip]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

By far the worst team in the division that’s nuts 

The Giants have become the hipster team with the national media and we remain super uncool

 

 

 

Its the Sporting News. Don't think they get the cream of the crop when it comes to writers. I give our draft a solid B.

[Number 44]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree as for PFF on Stromberg

 

As I said the other day as to PFF specifically it makes so sense for them as to Stromberg.  They gave him really good grades for his play.  They have him with the 2nd highest grade (tied for 2nd) as a player among these centers.  They will say sometimes don't fixate on the aggregate score in cases when a player played lesser competition. OK, but Stromberg played in the SEC.

 

Kiper called it a reach, too. Disagree.  Late third seemed right.  

 

I think though its a toss up as to Martin being available in the late third versus Stromberg in the mid 4th.  I'd probably bet on Stomberg being there in the mid 4th versus Martin going late third.  But of course no way to know.  

 

I think that it is doubtful that Stromberg would have made it to us in the 4th, now that I've noticed that Scruggs went in the 2nd round.

[method man]

6 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

I think that it is doubtful that Stromberg would have made it to us in the 4th, now that I've noticed that Scruggs went in the 2nd round.

Agreed. With the run on interior linemen in the initial part of the 4th, I don’t think Stromberg would have made it given his ability to play guard as well

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Makes sense.

 

The other component to it for me is Bieiniemy, also former RB, also had a DUI in his past.  Maybe he thinks he can help mentor him if need be.   This pick was driven by Bieiniemy according to Rivera. 

CRod’s DUI is overblown. That’s not character defining, being a 2x team captain is

[Andre The Giant]

Prisco is positive.  
 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-2023-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams-eagles-cowboys-bengals-lions-get-as-4-tie-for-worst-mark/

[RandyHolt]

Venting isn't working. The more I read back the more I think we fumbled away addressing our biggest needs. I thought we would target LB. I saw too many backs breaking tackles on Jamin for one. I know JDR doesn't use 3 LBs much but is JDR and his hybrid DB even going to be a thing next year?

 

The thing JDR did best (besides accepting Will Jackson was a terrible fit) was make due with "street" DBs and if you think our shiny new DBs aren't going to get burned more power to you. A pass cover DB can only be utilized to their strengths on roughly half our plays (non running plays). Don't forget say maybe 50% of THOSE pass snaps he will be in soft zone / bend don't break. I like taking an OL instead with a first - you go after someone who contributes every down.  Better ROI.

 

I still think we should have taken a QB. What are the odds a 5th round QB becomes a top 15ish starter? 5%? What about one learning 3 offenses in 3 years. In a tough MF division. Sam only got snaps in a meaningless game because Taylor forced RRs hand - it all seems like a testament to how raw he is as he learns a new playbook. I bet Sam would prefer an R1 OL vs a CB.

 

I am sure i will feel better in OTAs when our new DBs are doing The Jimmy Moreland Special ™

Edited May 1, 2023 by RandyHolt

[RVAskins]

32 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Prisco is positive.  
 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-2023-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams-eagles-cowboys-bengals-lions-get-as-4-tie-for-worst-mark/

I like this line. I feel the same way.

They firmly believe in Sam Howell — and they should —even if nobody wants to believe it. 

[Koolblue13]

26 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

Prisco is positive.  
 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/priscos-2023-nfl-draft-grades-for-all-32-teams-eagles-cowboys-bengals-lions-get-as-4-tie-for-worst-mark/

Dude hates RBs. 

 

He has a few people as his favorite that I really liked. Herbig in the 4rth, Winters in the 6th, Kuntz round 7, Vorhees 7th, Wypler 6th, Trice 7th Mingo, Avalia, Mafi

 

Didn't like some that I didn't like Washington, Daniels

[Voice_of_Reason]

This is my annual post which gets ignored every year, but here goes again.  (As a side note, I really should save this so I don't have to write it every year, but I don't have that type of forethought, planning, or intelligence, apparently, so here goes.)

 

1. Draft grades mean absolutely nothing.  

2. Draft grades mean absolutely nothing.

3. Draft grades mean absolutely nothing.

 

The 2012 Seahawks draft which netted them Russell Wilson and several other starters was graded an F.  

 

There is absolutely no way to know if a draft class is going to be good, bad or average until 2-3 seasons down the road.  You can start to get an inkling after 1 year, but it's really not until after the second year you really have a feeling for how the players are developing.  

 

The pundits grade drafts based on one thing, and one thing alone: how the team did against their draft board.  I don't care if it's Mel (who I love), PFF, Thor, or any other draftnik site, none of them grade players the way any of the 32 teams do, and each of the 32 teams do it somewhat differently.  They will use words like "reach" and "value."  A reach is simply a pick which based on THEIR board the player should have gone later.  Value is a player who they predicted earlier who fell.  But to have a "reach" or a "value" pick, you have to compare it against something.  And in this case, they are comparing it to their own analysis.  

 

They will also say things like "you could have gotten this player later."  Well, unless they have a DeLorean Time Machine, there is no way to substantiate that claim.  If one team took a player earlier than the punditry thought they should go, what makes you think another team or two wouldn't have had a similar grade or taken them early? 

 

The other fatal flaw in the punditries rankings is they only see a partial picture of the players: they see film, combine numbers, and some of the workouts, including senior bowl practices.  They do not see medicals or participate in interviews and conversations.  They also don't rank based on scheme fit, because how could they? So their ranking is inherently flawed.  And it's the basis of the grading.  

 

Some GM said it would be easy to get A grades in the draft: just look up the mock drafts and big boards, and follow them.  If you follow the punditry, you get a good grade.

 

Anyway, this is my annual reminder not to listen to, believe or put any stock in any draft grade given out by anybody, whether it's good or bad.  Graders will love the pick if it aligns with their thinking. 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Dude hates RBs. 

 

He has a few people as his favorite that I really liked. Herbig in the 4rth, Winters in the 6th, Kuntz round 7, Vorhees 7th, Wypler 6th, Trice 7th Mingo, Avalia, Mafi

 

Didn't like some that I didn't like Washington, Daniels

I found Vorhees, Skinner and Wypler 3 of the biggest steals of the draft. 

 

Vorhees and Skinner are calculated risks based on injury recovery. They may not be realized until next year but well worth it.

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

This is my annual post which gets ignored every year, but here goes again. 

 

2 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I found Vorhees, Skinner and Wypler 3 of the biggest steals of the draft. 

 

Vorhees and Skinner are calculated risks based on injury recovery. They may not be realized until next year but well worth it.

I know you were really high on Skinner.

 

Vorhees is a definite starter in a couple years and we weren't drafting a starter anyway.

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I know you were really high on Skinner.

 

Vorhees is a definite starter in a couple years and we weren't drafting a starter anyway.

Oh yeah!

Skinner is loaded with freakish potential

Vorhees would be a starter next year at with G plus can fill in at T, solid players both

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, method man said:

 

CRod’s DUI is overblown. That’s not character defining, being a 2x team captain is

 

 i don't know the dude but that cuts both ways -- as to giving him the benefit of the doubt and also not.   I watched a coupe of interviews and as I mentioned came off like a good kid.

 

If the DUI and suspension for 4 games for embellishing his work sheets is nothing -- cool.  Probably is nothing.  Just saying its part of the narrative for Rodriguez whether justfied or not.    

 

I like the pick, like the player.  He has a small disclaimer on him which is not the case I believe with the others.  Good chance the disclaimer means nothing.  but will see.

 

https://www.on3.com/college/kentucky-wildcats/news/additional-details-arise-on-suspensions-for-chris-rodriguez-jordan-wright-uk-healthcare/

 

Report: Additional details arise on the suspensions for Chris Rodriguez, Jordan Wright

The Chris Rodriguez suspension saga just got a bit deeper. After an NCAA investigation on Rodriguez and his Kentucky teammate Jordan Wright over the offseason that has bled into the early portion of the 2022 season, some light may have been shed on the details surrounding the suspensions.

According to documents obtained by the Lexington Herald-Leader, the two UK football players, who were employed by UK HealthCare, were clocking in inaccurate time cards for their shifts. The HL noted that two players specifically were investigated in the matter, and those two names, we now know, were Rodriguez and Wright’s.

“One week I noticed that some of them were clocking in 5 or 6 days a week,” one UK HealthCare employee told the HL, via KSR’s Nick Roush. “Mostly 12 hour shifts, some as much as 14. When I made this realization, the next morning during our impromptu ‘morning meeting’ we usually have prior to bed meeting, I mentioned to her that I did not feel comfortable doing their time anymore. She simply nodded her head and said she would take care of them from that point on.”

 

...Rodriguez won’t see the field until Kentucky’s next SEC road tip against Ole Miss on Oct. 1. In total, Wright only had to miss the season-opener, while Rodriguez received the brunt of the punishment with a four-game suspension.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Mitch Tinsley is a good signing IMO.

With all due respect, CB, I don't think he has the speed or quickness.  I think the Brycen kid from Stanford has a better camp. I also think we overpaid for Tinsley but let's see how it plays out in camp.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

We shall see how it plays out in camp.  I still think the Stanford WR surprises.