The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Koolblue13]

LS Forbes!!

 

Save that draft pick and find a use for him.

[NickyJ]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

LS Forbes!!

 

Save that draft pick and find a use for him.

Forbes gives me a different idea. Rivera should have benched Cheeseman for a week. I hear it's a confidence building technique that teams use.

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, DWinzit said:

No argument! Cut the cheese and figure it out later

 

I could smell this move coming before it broke.

I apologize in advance.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Per Pro Football Network

 

Top OTs in FA:

Jonah Williams

Mike Onwenu

Mehki Becton

Tyron Smith

Trent Brown

Donovan Smith

Yosh Nijman

Josh Jones

 

 

Crossed out the guys I think would be no-go's because of age. Becton is all potential. Not sure if he would be a fit to come in at RT or not. But he's also oft-injured. 

 

Jonah Williams and Mike Onwenu could be two guys we target to bring in at RT. I don't know much about Nijman but he might be a young under the radar signing. Josh Jones ... not sure how he's performed in ARZ but remember liking him going into the draft the year he came out.

 

Since we have to spend money somewhere, it might make sense to pay big $$ to Jonah Williams or Onwenu to man the right side. Feel like there's a bit more certainty and depth of options there than LGs. Maybe signing one of them kicks Wylie into LG. Draft a Center and LT in Round 2. Would give you solid depth and starters ... not sure if we can land a day 1 starting LT in the early 2nd, but there's gonna have to be warts somewhere on the OL, and having a veteran RT would help (as would kicking Wylie to LG to help the rook).

 

An OL of 

LT: Jordan Morgan (R)*

LG: Andrew Wylie

OC: Sedrick Van Purn (R) 

RG: Sam Cosmi

RT: Jonah Williams

 

This of course assumes we go QB in the 1st, which would necessitate going OT/LT in the early 2nd IMO. Hopefully the run on OTs in the late 1st isn't too crazy, or Morgan could be gone, and at that point I stop being able to truly differentiate who is a LT versus RT at the next level.

 

Would then have Paul, Stromberg, and hopefully another OT/OG in the 3rd or 4th round as depth + Braeden Daniels if he sticks around. If Nick Gates sticks too, throw him in the depth conversation. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[Est.1974]

I reckon Harris will be pissed he didn’t force more trades on Ron at the deadline.

[Wildbunny]

3 hours ago, NickyJ said:

I don't know who Jeremy Brenner is, but he writes for Sports Illustrated and clearly hasn't watched a Commies football game in the past two years.

https://www.si.com/nfl/commanders/news/breaking-commanders-cut-camaron-cheeseman-after-botched-snap-vs-rams

 

Who could blame him? Even us are not watching much of our games...

[KDawg]

Every time I see an OL put together by a fan that has Wylie on it I cringe.

[method man]

7 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Per Pro Football Network

 

Top OTs in FA:

Jonah Williams

Mike Onwenu

Mehki Becton

Tyron Smith

Trent Brown

Donovan Smith

Yosh Nijman

Josh Jones

 

 

Crossed out the guys I think would be no-go's because of age. Becton is all potential. Not sure if he would be a fit to come in at RT or not. But he's also oft-injured. 

 

Jonah Williams and Mike Onwenu could be two guys we target to bring in at RT. I don't know much about Nijman but he might be a young under the radar signing. Josh Jones ... not sure how he's performed in ARZ but remember liking him going into the draft the year he came out.

 

Since we have to spend money somewhere, it might make sense to pay big $$ to Jonah Williams or Onwenu to man the right side. Feel like there's a bit more certainty and depth of options there than LGs. Maybe signing one of them kicks Wylie into LG. Draft a Center and LT in Round 2. Would give you solid depth and starters ... not sure if we can land a day 1 starting LT in the early 2nd, but there's gonna have to be warts somewhere on the OL, and having a veteran RT would help (as would kicking Wylie to LG to help the rook).

 

An OL of 

LT: Jordan Morgan (R)*

LG: Andrew Wylie

OC: Sedrick Van Purn (R) 

RG: Sam Cosmi

RT: Jonah Williams

 

This of course assumes we go QB in the 1st, which would necessitate going OT/LT in the early 2nd IMO. Hopefully the run on OTs in the late 1st isn't too crazy, or Morgan could be gone, and at that point I stop being able to truly differentiate who is a LT versus RT at the next level.

 

Would then have Paul, Stromberg, and hopefully another OT/OG in the 3rd or 4th round as depth + Braeden Daniels if he sticks around. If Nick Gates sticks too, throw him in the depth conversation. 

Jonah Williams is going to be the Mike McGlinchey of this offseason. He is a below average to average tackle who is going to get paid like a very good one because of his first round pedigree. No thanks to him. Onwenu is a solid starter but Leno is arguably better and more valuable than all the folks on that list except for Tyron Smith (who is always hurt) and Trent Brown. I’d take Leno at his net $7M cap hit over signing any of these guys on a one year deal

[Commander202]

Personally think Trent brown here would be a good move at RT. LT would be in the second or first .

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@method man I guess. Leno has been so bad though. If he and Leno are the only OL holdovers I guess that’s an improvement regardless. FWIW, a post June 1 cut of Leno saved you $12m. I assume we’d go that route with him since he would save the most going that route. 
 

Stromberg is really the key for me. Is he a legit starting NFL Center? I wouldn’t be shocked if we drafted one early and just banked on the depth and position flex of Stromberg and didn’t rely on him as a starter. So I think you’d still “upgrade” 3 spots. Perhaps sign a LG, then draft a Center and RT early to pencil in as starters. I’d love to replace Leno though, esp if we have a rookie QB back there. 

[Panninho]

4 hours ago, method man said:

Jonah Williams is going to be the Mike McGlinchey of this offseason. He is a below average to average tackle who is going to get paid like a very good one because of his first round pedigree. No thanks to him. Onwenu is a solid starter but Leno is arguably better and more valuable than all the folks on that list except for Tyron Smith (who is always hurt) and Trent Brown. I’d take Leno at his net $7M cap hit over signing any of these guys on a one year deal

 

Mike Onwenu's season grades per PFF: 84.3 as a RT in 2020, 87.0 as LG in 2021, 79.3 as a RG in 2022, then struggled a bit to start the season (as the entire Patriots line did) but he got moved back to RT recently and has improved now to 69.1 on the season.

 

I don't think we have a player of that caliber on our line. Leno has had a pretty solid season but I think Onwenu would be a huge get for us. Would be my number 1 target this offseason. Can play 3 positions on a very high level. After him, the options get less attractive. Especially since Connor Williams tore his ACL.

[philibusters]

14 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

An OL of 

LT: Jordan Morgan (R)*

LG: Andrew Wylie

OC: Sedrick Van Purn (R) 

RG: Sam Cosmi

RT: Jonah Williams

 

 

 

Short term, you probably downgraded LT (I don't know much about Morgan--but the odds are as a rookie he would be a slight downgrade to Charles Leno, even if he ends up being a solid starter eventually), Jonah Williams is probably about the same as Wylie, maybe a slight upgrade, but that is close.   Wylie is an upgrade at LG over the combo of Shaddiq Charles/Chris Paul.  Likewise I don't know much about Sedrick Van Purn.  Our Center play has been worse than our LT play this year, so its possible you get could get an upgrade, but you could also get a push or a slight downgrade, its difficult to project with rookies.

 

Overall long term that O-Line is set up better, but short term, not that is not a big upgrade if its upgrade at all.

[method man]

4 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@method man I guess. Leno has been so bad though. If he and Leno are the only OL holdovers I guess that’s an improvement regardless. FWIW, a post June 1 cut of Leno saved you $12m. I assume we’d go that route with him since he would save the most going that route. 
 

Stromberg is really the key for me. Is he a legit starting NFL Center? I wouldn’t be shocked if we drafted one early and just banked on the depth and position flex of Stromberg and didn’t rely on him as a starter. So I think you’d still “upgrade” 3 spots. Perhaps sign a LG, then draft a Center and RT early to pencil in as starters. I’d love to replace Leno though, esp if we have a rookie QB back there. 

You have a point on making Leno a post June 1 cut if you want to go that route. Leno has been solid this year and his 75ish PFF rating highlights that. He gets owned by Thibodeaux and he struggles against elite pass rushers but he is generally ok. As @philibusters highlighted, he is a fantastic technician who can’t recover well from the rare mistake due to the average foot speed and lack of elite length. Having to play next to Charles and Paul affects his performance as well. If you put a competent veteran next to him, things are different.

 

On Stromberg, my mentality regarding him is I like him but he has shown nothing this year and I think of him more as a valuable backup. I would love to get Connor Williams on an incentive laden 1-2 year deal to allow him to prove his value post ACL tear but also give the new staff an opportunity to see what they have in Stromberg

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

 

Short term, you probably downgraded LT (I don't know much about Morgan--but the odds are as a rookie he would be a slight downgrade to Charles Leno, even if he ends up being a solid starter eventually), Jonah Williams is probably about the same as Wylie, maybe a slight upgrade, but that is close.   Wylie is an upgrade at LG over the combo of Shaddiq Charles/Chris Paul.  Likewise I don't know much about Sedrick Van Purn.  Our Center play has been worse than our LT play this year, so its possible you get could get an upgrade, but you could also get a push or a slight downgrade, its difficult to project with rookies.

 

Overall long term that O-Line is set up better, but short term, not that is not a big upgrade if its upgrade at all.

Jordan Morgan profiles to me as a cheaper Leno. Lack of length and elite foot speed and will have to win on technique. The issue with this projected line is putting a rookie center in there with an inexperienced QB is a challenge - could work for Sam but wouldn’t want to do it if the QB is Daniels

[gooseneck]

11 minutes ago, method man said:

You have a point on making Leno a post June 1 cut if you want to go that route. Leno has been solid this year and his 75ish PFF rating highlights that. He gets owned by Thibodeaux and he struggles against elite pass rushers but he is generally ok. As @philibusters highlighted, he is a fantastic technician who can’t recover well from the rare mistake due to the average foot speed and lack of elite length. Having to play next to Charles and Paul affects his performance as well. If you put a competent veteran next to him, things are different.

 

On Stromberg, my mentality regarding him is I like him but he has shown nothing this year and I think of him more as a valuable backup. I would love to get Connor Williams on an incentive laden 1-2 year deal to allow him to prove his value post ACL tear but also give the new staff an opportunity to see what they have in Stromberg

Jordan Morgan profiles to me as a cheaper Leno. Lack of length and elite foot speed and will have to win on technique. The issue with this projected line is putting a rookie center in there with an inexperienced QB is a challenge - could work for Sam but wouldn’t want to do it if the QB is Daniels

I would love to get Morgan this year if he falls to one of our seconds.  If he does not work at Tackle he could probably become an elite guard.

[NickyJ]

Having a failing OT successfully convert to OG sounds nice, but I'm really starting to hate the thought that it's fine to fail at finding capable OTs because we can just push them to a new position. It's what puts us in our situation now. A mediocre OT who can't help himself when the rest of the line fails, and last season's RT getting shifted to guard and creating such a worse monstrosity than we had before.

 

Which is another point that bothers me. Wylie is horrible. Cosmi may have been mediocre, but he was so much better than Wylie. They *MADE* RT a disaster.

[RWJ]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[method man]

22 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Having a failing OT successfully convert to OG sounds nice, but I'm really starting to hate the thought that it's fine to fail at finding capable OTs because we can just push them to a new position. It's what puts us in our situation now. A mediocre OT who can't help himself when the rest of the line fails, and last season's RT getting shifted to guard and creating such a worse monstrosity than we had before.

 

Which is another point that bothers me. Wylie is horrible. Cosmi may have been mediocre, but he was so much better than Wylie. They *MADE* RT a disaster.

A lot of good college tackles just don’t have the length for the pros. Graham Barton is a guy in this draft who is a good college tackle who will have to move to center or guard die to shorter arm length. 

[seantaylor=god]

27 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Having a failing OT successfully convert to OG sounds nice, but I'm really starting to hate the thought that it's fine to fail at finding capable OTs because we can just push them to a new position. It's what puts us in our situation now. A mediocre OT who can't help himself when the rest of the line fails, and last season's RT getting shifted to guard and creating such a worse monstrosity than we had before.

 

Which is another point that bothers me. Wylie is horrible. Cosmi may have been mediocre, but he was so much better than Wylie. They *MADE* RT a disaster.

Yeah I’m out on drafting any OT that is 6’4, or has short arms, etc. I want a guy that is huge with long arms and profiles as a true OT.  If he fails, he fails. 

[NickyJ]

19 minutes ago, method man said:

A lot of good college tackles just don’t have the length for the pros. Graham Barton is a guy in this draft who is a good college tackle who will have to move to center or guard die to shorter arm length. 

I don't disagree. Which circles back to a point that I was making to someone else in another thread: If we have a top 5 pick, I'd so much rather use that pick to get a career-long OT than gamble on the mid-rounds who have their obvious deficiencies. I think people shrug it off a lot lately because Scherff and Flowers were success stories and Cosmi hasn't been bad. They're starting to get complacent with poor OTs.

Edited December 19, 2023 by NickyJ

[method man]

3 hours ago, NickyJ said:

I don't disagree. Which circles back to a point that I was making to someone else in another thread: If we have a top 5 pick, I'd so much rather use that pick to get a career-long OT than gamble on the mid-rounds who have their obvious deficiencies. I think people shrug it off a lot lately because Scherff and Flowers were success stories and Cosmi hasn't been bad. They're starting to get complacent with poor OTs.

Depends on the need you are trying to solve and who you are taking. I, for example, would be ok with them solving RT via the draft and keeping Leno one more year at LT.

 

I also think this draft is loaded up with tooled up tackles who may fall to the late first / second who would typically be surefire first round picks. Guyton, Suamataia and Paul are examples (given his brother is lazy bum, I don’t want Paul but I like the other two)
 

 

[kingdaddy]

Is it wrong to wonder how easily Brissett ran the offense in his first two series of the season as compared to Sam who is struggling big time? I get the veteran, experience thing, but......why does Sam look so bad compared to what we saw out of Brissett? All I can think of is that he's thinking way too much and is somewhat confused/overwhelmed by where he's supposed to go with the football? This all makes me wonder, how far ahead is Sam ahead of a rookie top 5 pick and how far does he have to go to fully figure this all out? I also wonder who/what can help Sam in the offseason to study and come into camp a much better QB next season after all of the experience he gained this season?

[ClaytoAli]

9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is it wrong to wonder how easily Brissett ran the offense in his first two series of the season as compared to Sam who is struggling big time? I get the veteran, experience thing, but......why does Sam look so bad compared to what we saw out of Brissett? All I can think of is that he's thinking way too much and is somewhat confused/overwhelmed by where he's supposed to go with the football? This all makes me wonder, how far ahead is Sam ahead of a rookie top 5 pick and how far does he have to go to fully figure this all out? I also wonder who/what can help Sam in the offseason to study and come into camp a much better QB next season after all of the experience he gained this season?

Probably one part Sam poor effort and the other part of the Rams weren’t prepared for Jacoby.

[ntotoro]

13 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Is it wrong to wonder how easily Brissett ran the offense in his first two series of the season as compared to Sam who is struggling big time? I get the veteran, experience thing, but......why does Sam look so bad compared to what we saw out of Brissett? All I can think of is that he's thinking way too much and is somewhat confused/overwhelmed by where he's supposed to go with the football? This all makes me wonder, how far ahead is Sam ahead of a rookie top 5 pick and how far does he have to go to fully figure this all out? I also wonder who/what can help Sam in the offseason to study and come into camp a much better QB next season after all of the experience he gained this season?

 

They prepped for Sam, not Jacoby. I'd say it's Sam on the decline through the season combined with Jacoby being a relative unknown in the Offense.

[Thinking Skins]

i'm not backing off my argument htat 500+ attempts so early in Sam's career may have hurt Sam's arm, but I also think that Sam is thinking too much right now. And I keep going back to his Wed press conference saying to get the ball out quickly and then the play when he was trying SO HARD to get the ball to TERRY. He was avoiding wide open guys. Thats pressing. That's not going with the offense and that's creating turnovers. But when he has a pocket and drops back to set, he get's pressure right up the middle (like the play at the 9 yard line).

 

But I just can't get over the fact that on that pic he didn't even look at Dotson. it was a 1st and 10 play and he had time, had a pocket, scrambled to the sideline, thats ok cause Dotson was right in front of him but instead he stays focused on Terry who trys to get open and almost does but he does a bad throw and throwes a pic to a dangerous area. 

 

Question is would we do things to stabalize the offense and let Sam regroup but stay in there? Do we have things like that? Like a running game. Do we have the OL for that? Is BRob good enough for that? I was hoping that for this game BRob and Armah coming back would install life into the running game, but BRob didn't come back and CRod and what little we saw of Gibson didn't do anything to the running game. 

And I'm going to go back and say that normally a young QB's best friend is a BIG TE. Early in the year it was Logan Thomas. Look at his game logs

 

1, 8 Tgts,  4 rec, 43 yds, 0TD

2, 3 Tgts,  2 rec, 22 yds, 1TD

3, 3 Tgts,  3 rec, 41 yds, 0TD

4, 11 Tgts,  9 rec, 77 yds, 1TD

5, 1 Tgts,  1 rec, 2 yds, 0TD

6, 6 Tgts,  4 rec, 51 yds, 0TD

7, 8 Tgts,  6 rec, 44 yds, 1TD

8, 5 Tgts,  4 rec, 31 yds, 0TD

9, 5 Tgts,  5 rec, 40 yds, 0TD

10, 8 Tgts,  5 rec, 58 yds, 0TD

11, 4 Tgts,  2 rec, 15 yds, 0TD

12, 1 Tgts,  0 rec, 0 yds, 0TD

13, 3 Tgts,  1 rec, 7 yds, 0TD

 

Notice that three game slump in priduction by Howell coincides with him not going to Thomas. 

 

Edit: Since Jumbo who carries a lot of weight around here liked this, I won't remove the thread, but I just realized I didn't post htis in the QB thread (What was I thinking) so I was going to move it there if its ok. 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Thinking Skins

[HigSkin]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:37 AM, NickyJ said:

Having a failing OT successfully convert to OG sounds nice, but I'm really starting to hate the thought that it's fine to fail at finding capable OTs because we can just push them to a new position. It's what puts us in our situation now. A mediocre OT who can't help himself when the rest of the line fails, and last season's RT getting shifted to guard and creating such a worse monstrosity than we had before.

 

Which is another point that bothers me. Wylie is horrible. Cosmi may have been mediocre, but he was so much better than Wylie. They *MADE* RT a disaster.

 

Cosmi was actually a bright spot last weekend.