The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[Redwards]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Given how critical of an offseason this is, I wonder if Harris and company have given much thought on the image they want to present to prospective GM's, coaches and players. Right now we are the lame ass Commanders, named by a lame ass former owner who destroyed the franchise. How does the new ownership make this a more attractive destination besides the cap money they have? Short of a name change, does a new logo or something add to the image they want to portray as being a fresh start for everyone? I don't know if they'll have enough time to change anything but I wonder if they can come up with something more attractive to entice players to come here. Maybe some bad ass new uniforms and helmet designs with a secondary logo of sorts? They'd be wise to tap in to the artists I've seen here on this site. 

I just don't think fixing the hot water in the showers is gonna be a big enough sell. We need to make this organization a desired destination!

 

If they keep the name (and I seriously hope it goes) they MUST change the uniforms as soon as the league rules allow.  Other than the Dolphins, we have the softest look in the NFL.  Just about everything from head to toe is straight garbage.  

 

We need to get rid of the matte/satin look on the helmets.  Just awful.  Matte helmets make any logo look like a cheap gumball machine sticker.  On top of that, the "W" on our helmet is as lame and lazy as a logo gets.  It and the stripe seriously look like someone just slapped some funky orange/yellow electrical tape on the helmet.  

 

White and Black uniforms are straight trash.  Burn 'em.  The red design is fine, I think except for the "Commanders" name being way too big.  And we desperately need piping on the pants.

 

There is absolutely nothing even remotely exciting about this brand.  And because this isn't basketball or baseball where you can clearly see the person in the uniform at all times, football teams need to have an awesome look.  That's 99% of what you see - the uniform.  I seriously don't know one person who actually likes the branding of this team.  Everyone laughs at it, fan or not.  

 

I know Magic Johnson doesn't like the uniforms.  Saw him on the Today show a number of months ago, right before they bought the team, and the host was joking that if they got the team, they gotta change the uniforms.  Magic laughed and immediately nodded and said "Yes".  

 

Bottom line: even with the horrible name, there are other logos and uniforms that can look great just waiting to be designed.  Harris has to AT LEAST do this.   The branding is maybe the worst in the league.  There's zero exciting about it.

Edited November 29, 2023 by Redwards

[formerly4skins]

20 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

WR Tee Higgins

I really like everyone on your list except Higgins.

 

This is a guy who would make me nervous to sign to a top-tier WR contract. A little too much "risk" in the risk/reward calculation.

 

Dude has missed time 3 years running with recurring hamstring and ankle injuries...now, when he plays and he's healthy, he's pretty much a sure thing for 1,000+ yds.

 

But, a super-size WR, with ongoing leg issues, that didn't have great top-end speed to begin with is too risky a bet for me...especially since he'll probably be looking for a massive payday. 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2023 by formerly4skins

[RWJ]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd love to have a TE but to me that would be Bowers or bust based on what I watched so far.  Stover in the the third, J. Sanders maybe but on first glance wow does this TE class look like a step down from last year. 

 

Not a great FA class.  Maybe Noah Fant?  He's 26, so still young.  

I like Stover and I have him on my list below.  It is WAY early yet and it will be modified several times. 

 

1st: Joe Alt, Notre Dame, OT

2nd: J.T. Tuimoloau, Ohio State, EDGE

2nd: Terrion Arnold, Alabama, CB

3rd:  Javon Foster, Missouri, OT

3rd:  Michael Pratt, Tulane, QB

4th:  Cade Stover, Ohio State, TE

5th:  Junior Colson, Michigan, ILB

6th:  Omar Speights, LSU, ILB 

7th:  Aubrey Burks, West Virginia, S

[Est.1974]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd love to have a TE but to me that would be Bowers or bust based on what I watched so far.  Stover in the the third, J. Sanders maybe but on first glance wow does this TE class look like a step down from last year. 

 

Not a great FA class.  Maybe Noah Fant?  He's 26, so still young.  

Agree re the FA pool.

 

Luke Lachey in the draft. Injured this season, could net someone a complete steal I reckon if he falls due to that. Wouldn’t mind your view in the draft thread if you get chance.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

55 minutes ago, formerly4skins said:

I really like everyone on your list except Higgins.

 

This is a guy who would make me nervous to sign to a top-tier WR contract. A little too much "risk" in the risk/reward calculation.

 

Dude has missed time 3 years running with recurring hamstring and ankle injuries...now, when he plays and he's healthy, he's pretty much a sure thing for 1,000+ yds.

 

But, a super-size WR, with ongoing leg issues, that didn't have great top-end speed to begin with is too risky a bet for me...especially since he'll probably be looking for a massive payday. 

 

 

 

I kind of agree with you here. I like Tee when he's healthy and he can be a game-changer and a great complement to Dotson and Terry. But the injuries are a concern, as is spending Top10 money on a second WR. 

 

But if we end up moving on from Leno and Logan Thomas we will have nearly $110m in cap space and while we don't have to spend ALL that money, we do need to spend a good chunk of it (and I would think a new FO and Coach, looking to do some major roster turnover, will take advantage of the $$ being there). So if there was a year to be a bit more "wreckless" with our cap space, I guess this would be the year to do it, especially if the goal is to load up the offense to see if Sam is really "the guy" if that makes sense.

 

I would look at investments made on the offense this off-season to give Howell the absolute best chance to thrive in 2024. It's 100% going to be a decision year. He's either the guy, a guy, or someone you can move on from. By The Guy, I mean someone you're willing to extend and give $40+m a year to. By "a guy" I mean he's someone you have to consider ... do we extend him or move on from him (Daniel Jones situation, in which case I think we'd either trade him or just let him play out his contract while drafting a replacement). Or he's someone that is clearly an option for the 2025 season but not someone you're extending. 

 

To move the franchise in the right direction, you're going to need to know that answer by the end of 2024, definitively. And to make sure that the answer is most guided, you need to make sure the offense is fully loaded. 

[woodpecker]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

6 of the top 10 TEs you list in the top 10 are first or 2nd rounders so am not sure how that slam dunks that argument.

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. Eight out of the 10 he listed are third round pix or earlier! I realize you can get a sleeper tight end in the later rounds, but that’s certainly not something you can count on. Seems like we’ve taken several late round TEs recently, with nothing to show for it. Would be nice to have some stability at the position, with someone who can both catch and block. Bowers? Hell yeah bring him on. A lot of our ES scouts were talking up a LaPorta last year, and I wish we would’ve taken him instead of either one of our top two picks.

[method man]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Good stuff, how about Miami and Jacksonville the past couple of seasons? I recall both of them going wild with spending and wondering how they could get so many free agents.

They've both had quick turnarounds with young QB's.

I remember that JAX was maligned in the 2022 offseason for paying Oluokon and Kirk big $ but both guys stepped their games up after coming to JAX

[Warhead36]

45 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. Eight out of the 10 he listed are third round pix or earlier! I realize you can get a sleeper tight end in the later rounds, but that’s certainly not something you can count on. Seems like we’ve taken several late round TEs recently, with nothing to show for it. Would be nice to have some stability at the position, with someone who can both catch and block. Bowers? Hell yeah bring him on. A lot of our ES scouts were talking up a LaPorta last year, and I wish we would’ve taken him instead of either one of our top two picks.

The sweet spot is rounds 2-3.

 

You just don't wanna take them top 15.

[Koolblue13]

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

 

 

 Bowers is such a blue chip talent that I wouldn't completely hate the pick. 

This is probably the biggest ringing endorsement for drafting Bowers top 10 that I have ever seen.

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The sweet spot is rounds 2-3.

 

You just don't wanna take them top 15.

I agree. TE and LBer are drafted on day two. Positiobs like C,G, S should be day three guys that you've developed. OT, QB, CB, WE, DE are day one positions, but there are exceptions and when the cupboard is as bare as ours, it forces anything possible.

[ntotoro]

I've watched every Georgia game this year. Undefeated? Sure. Number 1 in the playoff standings. Yep. Bowers is the only one on the team to me who actually stands out on Offense.

 

To me, anyway.

[Warhead36]

17 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

This is probably the biggest ringing endorsement for drafting Bowers top 10 that I have ever seen.

I still don't love taking a TE so early but I am so desperate for an elite blue chip actual NFL SUPERSTAR that I might just pull the trigger. We haven't had one since legit RG3 in 2012 and it lasted one freaking season.

 

You know Harris is thinking something similar too. Stars sell jerseys and tickets and get national TV spots even if the team doesn't win. I'm not saying he should mandate his football people take Bowers, but if its close or a tie between Bowers and someone else I think Harris would step in and say "take the guy who can garner more national buzz."

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I still don't love taking a TE so early but I am so desperate for an elite blue chip actual NFL SUPERSTAR that I might just pull the trigger. We haven't had one since legit RG3 in 2012 and it lasted one freaking season.

 

You know Harris is thinking something similar too. Stars sell jerseys and tickets and get national TV spots even if the team doesn't win. I'm not saying he should mandate his football people take Bowers, but if its close or a tie between Bowers and someone else I think Harris would step in and say "take the guy who can garner more national buzz."

Harris doesn't do that.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Agree re the FA pool.

 

Luke Lachey in the draft. Injured this season, could net someone a complete steal I reckon if he falls due to that. Wouldn’t mind your view in the draft thread if you get chance.

 

He's on my list to watch along with Mitchell Evans but dudes with bad injuries in college like them two create a red flag to me considering how its an injury prone spot to begin with.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, woodpecker said:

Yeah, I was about to say the same thing. Eight out of the 10 he listed are third round pix or earlier! I realize you can get a sleeper tight end in the later rounds, but that’s certainly not something you can count on. Seems like we’ve taken several late round TEs recently, with nothing to show for it. Would be nice to have some stability at the position, with someone who can both catch and block. Bowers? Hell yeah bring him on. A lot of our ES scouts were talking up a LaPorta last year, and I wish we would’ve taken him instead of either one of our top two picks.

 

Agree.

 

Of course the pool of players in the 2nd to 7th round is larger than just the first.  So the pool of 230 players will likely beat as pool of 32 players on almost any spot because of the volume.  Granted that dynamic is even more pronounced at TE.

 

If you go through the drafts there are so many jags or worse in the mid rounds at TE and then every other year or so there is one gem on that round in the mix of other dudes who are meh.  If it was easy to figure out who that gem is, terrific, I am on board.  But in general you have a better shot finding a good TE in the higher rounds than lower rounds.

 

I do think that position is being valued more in recent years.  Prospects end up going higher than I expected in recent years which is a feeling I didn't have years back. 

 

As far as Laporta, I was in early on him before that draft, he made my predraft "my guys list".  Loved the player.  As a college player, Bowers is a full peg better than Laporta.  they also share the same superpower which is YAC ability.  And Bowers is the even better YAC guy, heck they even line him up in the backfield at times as a RB. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

I am now thinking Connor Williams is a must get in free agency. If you look at the FA center class, it is deep with solid proven starters. The issue is that most of the group is 1) fairly average and 2) most of them are also smaller centers (closer to 300 pounds). Not only is Williams playing at an elite level this season (and he did last year too) and showing himself to be worthy of top 5 money at the position but he is also close to 320 and we are going to need that sort of size in the middle given how important protecting Sam against interior pressure is and because we have Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter and Dexter Lawrence in our division.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

14 minutes ago, method man said:

I am now thinking Connor Williams is a must get in free agency. If you look at the FA center class, it is deep with solid proven starters. The issue is that most of the group is 1) fairly average and 2) most of them are also smaller centers (closer to 300 pounds). Not only is Williams playing at an elite level this season (and he did last year too) and showing himself to be worthy of top 5 money at the position but he is also close to 320 and we are going to need that sort of size in the middle given how important protecting Sam against interior pressure is and because we have Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter and Dexter Lawrence in our division.

 

Connor Williams would be a great signing. The only thing that steers me away from him is if the new FO thinks Stromberg can take over at Center in 2024. We HAVE to sign someone on the OL in FA and I frankly don't care where it is. It would make most sense to me to sign a RT so that Wylie can kick in to LG, unless Stromberg could be a legitimate LG too. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we double-dipped and went C/LG and RT in free agency, allowing us to go LT in the draft and have a full overhaul of the OL.

 

In a perfect world, we sign Connor Williams and a RT (Austin Jackson?) in free agency, then draft a blue-chip LT in Round 1 as well as a premier Guard in R2 or R3. Wylie kicks to LG so you aren't starting a rookie at LT and LG. 

 

Fashanu - Wylie - Williams - Cosmi - Jackson as starters would be nice. Backed up by Rookie 3rd round OG, Paul, Stromberg, Gates and Daniels. This would be a full OL overhaul, although I suspect the new FO won't try to fix it all in Year 1, we might have to accept having a black sheep on the OL in 2024 while things get sorted out. 

 

Can't or shouldn't write-off Daniels or Stromberg, but with a new FO coming in, they might view them as the old regime's picks and not prioritize getting them starting looks in 2024. 

Edited November 29, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[skinny21]

34 minutes ago, method man said:

I am now thinking Connor Williams is a must get in free agency. If you look at the FA center class, it is deep with solid proven starters. The issue is that most of the group is 1) fairly average and 2) most of them are also smaller centers (closer to 300 pounds). Not only is Williams playing at an elite level this season (and he did last year too) and showing himself to be worthy of top 5 money at the position but he is also close to 320 and we are going to need that sort of size in the middle given how important protecting Sam against interior pressure is and because we have Jordan Davis, Jalen Carter and Dexter Lawrence in our division.

I like your thinking here.  While I’m hopeful that Stromberg could nail down our center spot, 1) I’m tired of relying on hope, 2) I wanna put together a really stout interior, and 3) worst case, Stromberg provides nice depth at all 3 spots.  So with that in mind, I’d love to come away from FA with at least one stud at either LG or C, and then draft a guy (or 2).  I’ll add that I’d rather spend more for quality than spread out our cap on a larger number of decent players.

[Koolblue13]

Unless we're running a system like the Dolphins and passing the ball in two seconds, I'm not real interested in their OL FAs.

[method man]

10 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I like your thinking here.  While I’m hopeful that Stromberg could nail down our center spot, 1) I’m tired of relying on hope, 2) I wanna put together a really stout interior, and 3) worst case, Stromberg provides nice depth at all 3 spots.  So with that in mind, I’d love to come away from FA with at least one stud at either LG or C, and then draft a guy (or 2).  I’ll add that I’d rather spend more for quality than spread out our cap on a larger number of decent players.

 

That's exactly it. A good FO is going to see an unproven guy like Stromberg as a nothing and he should be thought of as depth, if that, unless he proves otherwise. We need proven solutions or high probability solutions like 1st and 2nd round picks at each spot on the OL

[woodpecker]

4 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The sweet spot is rounds 2-3.

 

You just don't wanna take them top 15.

I don’t disagree with that in general, but I think it’s a mistake to be so ultra rigid about what rounds certain positions should be taken. If 2–3 is the sweet spot, then grabbing someone who is a special talent at the position a round earlier shouldn’t be taken off the table. OT + rd 2 TE or TE + rd 2 OL—I think it would work pretty well either way. But Bowers is the guy who gives us the star power that a lot of fans are craving. 

[Thinking Skins]

21 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Connor Williams would be a great signing. The only thing that steers me away from him is if the new FO thinks Stromberg can take over at Center in 2024. We HAVE to sign someone on the OL in FA and I frankly don't care where it is. It would make most sense to me to sign a RT so that Wylie can kick in to LG, unless Stromberg could be a legitimate LG too. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we double-dipped and went C/LG and RT in free agency, allowing us to go LT in the draft and have a full overhaul of the OL.

 

In a perfect world, we sign Connor Williams and a RT (Austin Jackson?) in free agency, then draft a blue-chip LT in Round 1 as well as a premier Guard in R2 or R3. Wylie kicks to LG so you aren't starting a rookie at LT and LG. 

 

Fashanu - Wylie - Williams - Cosmi - Jackson as starters would be nice. Backed up by Rookie 3rd round OG, Paul, Stromberg, Gates and Daniels. This would be a full OL overhaul, although I suspect the new FO won't try to fix it all in Year 1, we might have to accept having a black sheep on the OL in 2024 while things get sorted out. 

 

Can't or shouldn't write-off Daniels or Stromberg, but with a new FO coming in, they might view them as the old regime's picks and not prioritize getting them starting looks in 2024. 

 

 

I don't like this at all. 

 

Why would we keep Wylie? As a starter? What has he shown us that he has the potential to be a sarter? If we're going to bring in a C and RT, why not bring in a LG as well? If not, I'd rather have Stromberg start over him or Daniels. I'm not ready to write off Paul or Charles yet either. I think this year was a lot going wrong all at once. Its hard to judge if one player is right on one play if everybody else is bad on every other play. 

[Est.1974]

Just been reading the piece @Skinsinparadiseposted about Harris discussing future plans and preaching patience. No shortcuts to the top.

 

Linking that to our 2024 free agency approach, that should bring a more targeted approach on player acquisition. Apply a medium-longer term plan. Only get players coming out of rookies deals for example. Don’t go after anyone 30+. Don’t hand out contracts to free agents that are under 3 years. None of this 1 or 2 year stopgap approach, unless by expection if you are hit by a specific injury during camp for example.

 

Will be interesting.

[MrJL]

3 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Just been reading the piece @Skinsinparadiseposted about Harris discussing future plans and preaching patience. No shortcuts to the top.

 

Linking that to our 2024 free agency approach, that should bring a more targeted approach on player acquisition. Apply a medium-longer term plan. Only get players coming out of rookies deals for example. Don’t go after anyone 30+. Don’t hand out contracts to free agents that are under 3 years. None of this 1 or 2 year stopgap approach, unless by expection if you are hit by a specific injury during camp for example.

 

Will be interesting.

 

if we're not going for players over 30 we're not improving significantly next year.  There's a fair amount of weakness in the positions we need next free agency cycle and some short term rentals  are what we need and what I was hoping for.

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Just been reading the piece @Skinsinparadiseposted about Harris discussing future plans and preaching patience. No shortcuts to the top.

 

Linking that to our 2024 free agency approach, that should bring a more targeted approach on player acquisition. Apply a medium-longer term plan. Only get players coming out of rookies deals for example. Don’t go after anyone 30+. Don’t hand out contracts to free agents that are under 3 years. None of this 1 or 2 year stopgap approach, unless by expection if you are hit by a specific injury during camp for example.

 

Will be interesting.

 

Harris has to thread the needle some.   I think the aggressivness is more likely to come as to the draft, acquiring picks with a future oriented approach.  If they follow the Eagles model for example, in FA they swung hard at times.   They have a dual present and future approach.  Both Keim and Russini said in seperate conversations that they heard this team will be very aggressive in FA.

 

I am expecting a big signing or two.  Keim among others would say before the Sweat-Young trades, don't count on a slam dunk comp pick if they let them hit FA because a big signing would negate it.

 

Going back to the draft, all the coaches-GMs (sans one year under Scot McCloughan) could give a rats ass about trading down to acquire anything but picks in that same draft -- never Eagles style caring about future drafts.  I think that's going to change.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[method man]

7 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Just been reading the piece @Skinsinparadiseposted about Harris discussing future plans and preaching patience. No shortcuts to the top.

 

Linking that to our 2024 free agency approach, that should bring a more targeted approach on player acquisition. Apply a medium-longer term plan. Only get players coming out of rookies deals for example. Don’t go after anyone 30+. Don’t hand out contracts to free agents that are under 3 years. None of this 1 or 2 year stopgap approach, unless by expection if you are hit by a specific injury during camp for example.

 

Will be interesting.

I couldn’t disagree with this post more

 

1) Sports medicine and analytics is way better now than 20 years ago when Dan was going for > 30 FAs. The > 30 FAs bring leadership and gravitas no one on this roster really has. Teams also tend to overpay ascending players earning a 2nd contract but underpay the > 30 guys who are still effective. Mike Evans, for example, is going to get similar money as Michael Pittman but is going to put up a better 2024 with at least a 1000 yards and at least 8 TDs no matter who plays QB. I similarly think Danielle Hunter is going to be very effective in his early 30s. If Lavonte David wanted to leave TB, we would be very lucky to have him for a year.

 

2) The 3 year+ deals come with more guaranteed money and makes it tougher to move on from busts. This also reduces cap flexibility moving forward. For example, if we choose to end things with both Wylie and Gates, both will have to be post June 1 cuts and the dead cap charges on both would be high

Edited December 1, 2023 by method man