The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[skinsfan66]

2 minutes ago, MrJL said:

You're not helping your case on well thought out decisions. You led off with a guy who's about to be a free agent.  This is Samuel's last year, the other years on his contract or void years.  Thomas cannot be June 1 since next year is the last year of his contract.  Gibson is also a free agent.  Dotson is only in his second year. 

 

The only thing you're right about is Wylie and Gates

I am thinking in total rebuild mind set that was stated to me, I think I am right about all. Samuels, Thomas will be cuts or not resigned and I take the dead cap space that goes with it. Trade Dobson if you can take the small dead cap space too. There would be dead cap space that would come with trading Terry, Allen but they earn theirs that is why I keep them. 

[dunfer]

whatever anyone has in mind, its going to take a couple offseasons with a new fo and coaching staff to bear any fruit

[skinsfan66]

51 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Just a question.....if a team only wins 4 games how is anything they do considered a re-build? We don't have any building blocks as it is.....isn't a rebuild done after a team was once good and got old? 

I'd argue that we need a build....with a reputable builder to construct this building. But I'm just being a smart ass. However, I just think we need the right staff building onto what we already have which could be much better with better coaching. 

Can someone define a total rebuild please? Mine would be get rid of the fat that did not earn their contract, not the ones that do and are on a contract even though they are higher priced but not a problem and create another 2 holes to fill. Trading players means dead cap space too it comes do right away. So why not get rid of the dead weight and eat their dead cap space now why you have the big cap. If you pick a new QB and trade Howell there is dead cap space there too. The couple picks are nice for Terry and Allen but it's not like we filled a lot of holes with are last 2 drafts.

8 minutes ago, dunfer said:

whatever anyone has in mind, its going to take a couple offseasons with a new fo and coaching staff to bear any fruit

Hopefully a couple not several.

[kingdaddy]

14 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

I am thinking in total rebuild mind set that was stated to me, I think I am right about all. Samuels, Thomas will be cuts or not resigned and I take the dead cap space that goes with it. Trade Dobson if you can take the small dead cap space too. There would be dead cap space that would come with trading Terry, Allen but they earn theirs that is why I keep them. 

Dotson can play, he's a perfect example of how bad our offensive game plan is. If used right, he should be moved around where he can get a mismatch. If we can get a better TE with a tall WR as our 3rd guy Dotson should be a tremendous weapon. In fact, I'll bet a new coaching staff will come in and love having Terry and Dotson as their top 2 WR's.....just my opinion.

I've seen Dotson play at Penn State and he was a playmaker....it's why he's a 1st round pick. 

[NickyJ]

I think ES talent evaluators are pretty on the mark when they judge players. If they say Dotson goes, Dotson goes.We'd need a replacement for our #2 receivers though. I'd make a run at one of the diamonds in the rough that ES found: Maurice Harris. I would never doubt an ESer's opinion.

[skinsfan66]

5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Dotson can play, he's a perfect example of how bad our offensive game plan is. If used right, he should be moved around where he can get a mismatch. If we can get a better TE with a tall WR as our 3rd guy Dotson should be a tremendous weapon. In fact, I'll bet a new coaching staff will come in and love having Terry and Dotson as their top 2 WR's.....just my opinion.

I've seen Dotson play at Penn State and he was a playmaker....it's why he's a 1st round pick. 

Makes no sense to trade Terry for a draft pick, my opinion. that's what I was responding too. Dotson dropped a lot of balls this year at bad times I would still keep Dotson too. Dotson would get traded before Terry if I was making a change. Add the Big TE, WR or both we need them. Same for Allen keep him. I could carless about Samuels and Logan they never lived up to their contracts and easy to replace their production. What part of the team do you leave alone in a total rebuild? 

[skinsfan66]

2 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I think ES talent evaluators are pretty on the mark when they judge players. If they say Dotson goes, Dotson goes.We'd need a replacement for our #2 receivers though. I'd make a run at one of the diamonds in the rough that ES found: Maurice Harris. I would never doubt an ESer's opinion.

Would you trade Terry?  Maybe we could take another WR from Colorado with the pick for Terry too (Westbrooke) to replace our WR1? No.3 WR for you to be correct about Dotson, Samuels played much better and can hold on to the ball in crunch time.  Do you replace the players who earn their contract and keep the dead weight because you can get a higher pick in a total rebuild?  Samuels and the rest go first in a total rebuild if it came down to it but Dotson before Terry. That's my point and opinion in any rebuild for me. I think you do not want to lose Dotson as much as I do not want to lose Terry or Allen. 2 more holes to fill too. 

[NickyJ]

3 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Would you trade Terry?  Maybe we could take another WR from Colorado with the pick for Terry too (Westbrooke) to replace our WR1? No.3 WR for you to be correct about Dotson, Samuels played much better and can hold on to the ball in crunch time.  Do you replace the players who earn their contract and keep the dead weight because you can get a higher pick in a total rebuild?  Samuels and the rest go first in a total rebuild if it came down to it but Dotson before Terry. That's my point and opinion in any rebuild for me. I think you do not want to lose Dotson as much as I do not want to lose Terry or Allen. 2 more holes to fill too. 

I think Terry is overrated and overage. I'd trade him for someone who can be had on an affordable contract. Maurice Harris is still my number one, but I'd try to pry Leonard Hankerson out from the 49ers. He's tall, has big hands, is tall, outproduces Dotson, and is tall, and has big hands. Young WRs grow on trees and should be thrown out after 2 years anyway. They age like milk.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Terry is going to be what, 28? Maybe he wants to win before he’s out of the league. Team like KC would probably give up their 1st for him. And it would make sense. Swap 3 years of Terry at $20+ million per year for a rookie who’s gonna cost $2-3m per year for 5 years. 
 

Basically what Minnesota did with Diggs a few years ago. He wasn’t older but he wanted out. And then they used that pick on Jefferson. 
 

Deep WR class. You’re downgrading talent this year presumably but if you hit on that pick you’re breaking even at a big discount. 
 

I think Jon Allen is way more likely to be traded though. I think we’d have to get at least a 1st for Trrry from a Super Bowl contender and “do right by him” 

 

Trading Terry and Allen would signal the rebuild. You know by the time you’re competitive again they’ll be either off the books or past their primes. It doesn’t make sense to hang on to expensive older talent if your goal is to get young and build for 2-3 years from now. It’s got nothing to do with 2024 and losing their impct and being able to replace it. It’s about turning over the roster to be stocked in 2025/2026. And a 1st rounder this year would inevitably be more impactful at that point than Terry or Allen. 

Edited December 22, 2023 by JamesMadisonSkins

[skinny21]

47 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Makes no sense to trade Terry for a draft pick, my opinion. that's what I was responding too. Dotson dropped a lot of balls this year at bad times I would still keep Dotson too. Dotson would get traded before Terry if I was making a change. Add the Big TE, WR or both we need them. Same for Allen keep him. I could carless about Samuels and Logan they never lived up to their contracts and easy to replace their production. What part of the team do you leave alone in a total rebuild? 

I think generally, you keep youth, you keep cheaper guys that have shown something, and pricier guys that have years left on their contract (assuming they’re roughly playing up to their cost).  And of course you have guys hitting FA that you may or may not re-sign (I’d consider Curl, though I think he’ll want too much, and I probably let Fuller walk), and guys going into their final year you might extend (Cosmi, for example, is a no-brainer for me).

 

It’s nuanced though.  Take someone like Brian Robinson.  If we draft a qb this year, the expectation/hope is we probably kind of stink next year, challenge for playoffs in ‘25, and are contenders for a period after that.  With 2 years left on his deal, trading Robinson for a 3rd-5th makes some sense - you shouldn’t re-sign backs (generally) and so why not get a pick (w/ a 4 year contract, if they pan out - big if) if BR isn’t gonna help us contend?  Flip side, having a ground game helps a qb out, and Robinson’s proven to be a solid runner and pass catcher.  So, maybe you hold onto him as a transition piece instead?

 

I’m certainly not anxious to move on from Terry, I’d hold on to him for our qb’s sake, but I do get the thinking that by the time we’re actually contending (in theory), he’s a FA or in his final year.  I’d keep Dotson for sure though.  No telling if he pans out, but he’s relatively cheap for 3 more years and (more importantly, IMO) his trade value is terrible right now.

 

Definitely let Samuels walk, probably cut Logan (I’d like to get someone in-house before releasing him).  Leno I hold onto for now.  Not anxious for a repeat of releasing Moses (not apples to apples of course)… gotta prioritize protecting the young qb.

[kingdaddy]

10 hours ago, skinsfan66 said:

Makes no sense to trade Terry for a draft pick, my opinion. that's what I was responding too. Dotson dropped a lot of balls this year at bad times I would still keep Dotson too. Dotson would get traded before Terry if I was making a change. Add the Big TE, WR or both we need them. Same for Allen keep him. I could carless about Samuels and Logan they never lived up to their contracts and easy to replace their production. What part of the team do you leave alone in a total rebuild? 

Good question that I can't answer because I don't know the character of the players other than what I read and see with my eyes. I think Payne and Allen care. I'd keep Terry and Dotson unless someone offers a 1st for Terry. BRob stays. Defensively I can't believe it but everyone is up for grabs....and then there's Sam. I would be open to dealing Sam if a QB I loved fell to us in the draft, otherwise he obviously stays. Jamin Davis is another one, I think he can probably play but who knows how badly coached these guys really were coached?

[skinsfan66]

10 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Terry is going to be what, 28? Maybe he wants to win before he’s out of the league. Team like KC would probably give up their 1st for him. And it would make sense. Swap 3 years of Terry at $20+ million per year for a rookie who’s gonna cost $2-3m per year for 5 years. 
 

Basically what Minnesota did with Diggs a few years ago. He wasn’t older but he wanted out. And then they used that pick on Jefferson. 
 

Deep WR class. You’re downgrading talent this year presumably but if you hit on that pick you’re breaking even at a big discount. 
 

I think Jon Allen is way more likely to be traded though. I think we’d have to get at least a 1st for Trrry from a Super Bowl contender and “do right by him” 

 

Trading Terry and Allen would signal the rebuild. You know by the time you’re competitive again they’ll be either off the books or past their primes. It doesn’t make sense to hang on to expensive older talent if your goal is to get young and build for 2-3 years from now. It’s got nothing to do with 2024 and losing their impct and being able to replace it. It’s about turning over the roster to be stocked in 2025/2026. And a 1st rounder this year would inevitably be more impactful at that point than Terry or Allen. 

If I was KC I would make the trade for Terry.  Because he fills a big hole after they traded the best WR in football and on their team (T.Hill). How are those replacements for him doing?  Diggs was a good a trade for both teams because Minn. hit on Jefferson with a high 1st rd. pick. K.C would love a redo of that trade. 

[Warhead36]

I don't wanna trade Terry if we draft a QB in the top 5. We gotta make sure he has reliable veteran weapons to throw to.

[skinsfan66]

12 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Dotson can play, he's a perfect example of how bad our offensive game plan is. If used right, he should be moved around where he can get a mismatch. If we can get a better TE with a tall WR as our 3rd guy Dotson should be a tremendous weapon. In fact, I'll bet a new coaching staff will come in and love having Terry and Dotson as their top 2 WR's.....just my opinion.

I've seen Dotson play at Penn State and he was a playmaker....it's why he's a 1st round pick. 

Dotson was drafted middle of the first it's his 2nd year has not lived up to it, Terry was drafted 3rd rd. earned a 2nd. contract both played on same condtions. Terry has had a different QB every year too. Why do you trade him, we have no cap problem, because he is 28 years old.?    Bring someone in who can beat him out first.

Edited December 22, 2023 by skinsfan66

[Warhead36]

Yeah I don't get the notion of just giving Terry away. WR is a PRIME position in today's NFL and while he isn't an A1 superstar, he is definitely a quality #1 starting receiver.

 

Now if some team offers us multiple 1sts for him, yeah I'd probably pull the trigger. But I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of "oh we have to get rid of everyone."

[MrJL]

12 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Dotson was drafted middle of the first it's his 2nd year has not lived up to it, Terry was drafted 3rd rd. earned a 2nd. contract both played on same condtions. Terry has had a different QB every year too. Why do you trade him, we have no cap problem, because he is 28 years old.?    Bring someone in who can beat him out first.

this is only Dotson's second year

[skinsfan66]

12 hours ago, NickyJ said:

I think Terry is overrated and overage. I'd trade him for someone who can be had on an affordable contract. Maurice Harris is still my number one, but I'd try to pry Leonard Hankerson out from the 49ers. He's tall, has big hands, is tall, outproduces Dotson, and is tall, and has big hands. Young WRs grow on trees and should be thrown out after 2 years anyway. They age like milk.

Is their a cap problem,? Some WR's drafted in the middle of the 1st. rd. and have not earned no.1 money after 2 years most likely will never. Flip side you want to throw out a WR who earned his second contract after playing on a third rd. contract because he is 28 years old. Dotson has missed more games in 2 years than Terry his whole career, dropped more passes and plays like a light weight. Terry did more his first 2 years and earned his bump in pay 2 years later and still is earning it. Overrated he is not for what he has produced as a 3rd rd. pick. Dotson can't carrier Terry's tool bag and never will?   Throw out the best WR we have had in years into the clearance rack over a draft pick and his age. But let's keep the ball face boy who has not stepped up to date and in 2 years might be worth a low comp pick. 

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

this is only Dotson's second year

Right and he is a middle rd. no.1 pick in his 2nd year who at this point has not earned his money. I would (trade) Dotson before Terry any day of the week. Has he been worth the pick? Some want to cut Terry over Money his age and a draft pick.  

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Yeah I don't get the notion of just giving Terry away. WR is a PRIME position in today's NFL and while he isn't an A1 superstar, he is definitely a quality #1 starting receiver.

 

Now if some team offers us multiple 1sts for him, yeah I'd probably pull the trigger. But I wouldn't trade him just for the sake of "oh we have to get rid of everyone."

That's my point, and would like to keep Both but my choice would be Dotson if you needed a pick.

[Warhead36]

I'd rather keep both and then add a big stud to put us over the top.

 

Lets try to dominate instead of settling for "meh".

[NickyJ]

24 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

Is their a cap problem,? Some WR's drafted in the middle of the 1st. rd. and have not earned no.1 money after 2 years most likely will never. Flip side you want to throw out a WR who earned his second contract after playing on a third rd. contract because he is 28 years old. Dotson has missed more games in 2 years than Terry his whole career, dropped more passes and plays like a light weight. Terry did more his first 2 years and earned his bump in pay 2 years later and still is earning it. Overrated he is not for what he has produced as a 3rd rd. pick. Dotson can't carrier Terry's tool bag and never will?   Throw out the best WR we have had in years into the clearance rack over a draft pick and his age. But let's keep the ball face boy who has not stepped up to date and in 2 years might be worth a low comp pick. 

You know what, you're right. I never said we should keep Dotson, and I was convinced by an ES talent evaluator that he should be traded before he tests the USFL FA market, but now I'm double convinced that Dotson needs to be traded. But Terry needs to go. He's old and slow. Terry's tool bag is lighter than my grandma's belt bag, Dotson not being able to carry it isn't a credit to Terry. Our WRs are bums, we let the best one go when DeAndre Carter left. We still haven't recovered from it. He's also a guy I'd go after. We need lunch pail, pound the rock, man's man, football BALLERS like Maurice and DeAndre. Not dumb fools like Dotson who can't get out the front door without dropping his keys, or old man McLauren who's already getting nursing home advertisements.

 

This team needs vision. It needs to let go of the old and decrepit, even good old toolbag terry. I have clear eyes now. Do you?

Edited December 22, 2023 by NickyJ

[mh86]

Maybe we can trade Forbes for someone’s stapler. I hope this next regime can evaluate talent properly and coach well. Then, they can bring in all the FAs and let the competition weed out the bad.

[wit33]

Trading away valuable players to acquire more draft picks, given the unpredictable nature of the draft, seems counterintuitive. Acquire and keep great to elite talent. 

 

Instead of shedding top talent, focus on parting ways with older or overpaid average performers, while leveraging free agency and the draft to bolster the team. The ultimate aim is to secure an elite or promising quarterback on a rookie contract.

 

On a separate note, witnessing the Rams celebrate an 8-7 win, boosting their playoff prospects, brings back nostalgia. I hope for a return to those hopeful days, especially considering Washington’s likely position with a top 5 draft pick.

[skinsfan66]

2 hours ago, NickyJ said:

You know what, you're right. I never said we should keep Dotson, and I was convinced by an ES talent evaluator that he should be traded before he tests the USFL FA market, but now I'm double convinced that Dotson needs to be traded. But Terry needs to go. He's old and slow. Terry's tool bag is lighter than my grandma's belt bag, Dotson not being able to carry it isn't a credit to Terry. Our WRs are bums, we let the best one go when DeAndre Carter left. We still haven't recovered from it. He's also a guy I'd go after. We need lunch pail, pound the rock, man's man, football BALLERS like Maurice and DeAndre. Not dumb fools like Dotson who can't get out the front door without dropping his keys, or old man McLauren who's already getting nursing home advertisements.

 

This team needs vision. It needs to let go of the old and decrepit, even good old toolbag terry. I have clear eyes now. Do you?

 Now did you say your Grand paw has a big tool bag and plays in the USFL and drives a McLauren?  And Terry is older than the hills on your grandmothers chest? Mr. Mago dropped another football? Did the ES talent evaluator stay in a holiday Express before your chat?  You have Maurice and DeAndre in your lineup this week?  It's all clear now, I can see the light now, wait for it, 20 mil Terry is still here. The End, Do you see it? 

[MrJL]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Trading away valuable players to acquire more draft picks, given the unpredictable nature of the draft, seems counterintuitive. Acquire and keep great to elite talent. 

 

Instead of shedding top talent, focus on parting ways with older or overpaid average performers, while leveraging free agency and the draft to bolster the team. The ultimate aim is to secure an elite or promising quarterback on a rookie contract.

 

On a separate note, witnessing the Rams celebrate an 8-7 win, boosting their playoff prospects, brings back nostalgia. I hope for a return to those hopeful days, especially considering Washington’s likely position with a top 5 draft pick.

 

don't you know that someone being on the Commanders means they're by definition NOT great?

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

don't you know that someone being on the Commanders means they're by definition NOT great?

This appears to be the logic for some.