Daron Payne or Jonathan Allen? You are the GM who do you keep?

[method man]

It is malpractice if this team does not tag Payne. I am feeling confident that, at the very minimum, they get a 2 and a Day 3 pick if they trade him and I feel oddly confident a 1st round pick is a real possibility, especially if it is a mid to late 1st

 

[CobraCommander]

9 hours ago, method man said:

It is malpractice if this team does not tag Payne. I am feeling confident that, at the very minimum, they get a 2 and a Day 3 pick if they trade him and I feel oddly confident a 1st round pick is a real possibility, especially if it is a mid to late 1st

 

I mean, I'm with you in spirit but when was the last time we traded a player for a 1st of even 2nd round pick? I'm honestly asking because I can't remember the last time we got fair trade value for a player that netted us a top pick in the draft.

 

 

[drowland]

44 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

I mean, I'm with you in spirit but when was the last time we traded a player for a 1st of even 2nd round pick? I'm honestly asking because I can't remember the last time we got fair trade value for a player that netted us a top pick in the draft.

 

 

 

I guess Sean Gilbert back in '98.  Two 1st round picks.  

[CobraCommander]

3 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I guess Sean Gilbert back in '98.  Two 1st round picks.  

So before Snyder. We will have to wait until he is gone for a real GM.  

[Wyvern]

[Sorry, this is probably an 'unpopular' thought].

 

I get that we need a high-quality DT complement to Allen, but wonder what is the drop- off in talent and production Washington might get from the unproven Mathis on a rookie contract and/or some of the talented DT's coming out of this draft?

 

Assuming Payne maintains his intensity (once he's been 'paid' in his opinion), then Washington would have a solid interior D-line that opponents might have to scheme around.

 

But, does that mean Washington would then need to sign up Sweat and/or Young to keep the defensive containment/pressure around the ends?  If so, then where does the team start 'pinching pennies' when they find they need to sign up the 'glue' of the defense's back-7?  (And that's probably important as the NFL seems hell-bent on promoting passing attacks for what I believe are media/marketing reasons.)

 

There's a lot of talk about retaining elite players -- but how many elite players can a team afford?  I changed my mind, at this point, Washington needs to 'tag-&-trade' Payne and use their cap-space to retain the leadership quality elite players to mentor/guide/captain their respective functional groups and especially the talented draftees and UDFA's the team brings on to replenish the outgoing talent Washington can't afford to retain for cost reason.  as long as NFL salaries keep sky-rocketing, Washington can't pour all its money into retaining 4 #1picks playing on the D-line, because they'd have to skimp somewhere else. 

 

Since I don't think QB contracts will ever come down to earth -- teams may eventually have to plan around a QB salary gobbling 15+% of cap-space and that means relying more on rookie contracts at many of the non-QB positions.  (unless they continually cycle in new rookie QBs every 3-4 years.)

 

Going forward, It will be interesting to see how teams decide to cope (cap-wise) with these escalating salaries.  Because if the economy sours, the costs cannot always be passed onto higher ticket prices.

[Jericho]

13 hours ago, drowland said:

 

I guess Sean Gilbert back in '98.  Two 1st round picks.  

 

Technically, that wasn't even a trade. The team just franchise tagged Gilbert and then didn't match the Panthers offer. The stated compensation is two first round draft picks. Nothing was negotiated. In fact, it might be the only time in NFL history a team just signed another franchise player without working a trade (there have been several trades, but I'm struggling to remember another time a team didn't just negotiate a deal. The closest was when the Cowboys traded two first rounds picks for Joey Galloway, which would basically be the same as just signing the guy without having to wait to see if another team matches).

11 hours ago, Wyvern said:

There's a lot of talk about retaining elite players -- but how many elite players can a team afford? 

 

 

There are limits, but Washington doesn't have enough elite players to really worry about it. You look at KC, they did eventually decide to move on from Tyreek Hill because of the money paid to guys like Mahomes and Kelce and Chris Jones and Frank Clark and Joe Thuney. Washington doesn't really have that problem.

 

Plus, NFL careers are short. By the time newer draftees need to get paid, some of the older guys will no longer be worth it. 

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 1/30/2023 at 12:07 PM, Zim489 said:

A weak back 7.
 

I would move on from Payne and Sweat at this point. 

Move on and not get anything for them? Why did this happen? Why didn’t we have Payne locked up last year? Same crap over and over and getting tired of it. Our O line sucked this year and you watch the 49s and you see T Williams killing it. You see Kirk C throwing TD passes in Miny. So I guess next season we will see Payne playing for the Seahawks. Can someone please explain this to us? 

[50yrSKINSfan]

On 1/31/2023 at 10:31 PM, method man said:

It is malpractice if this team does not tag Payne. I am feeling confident that, at the very minimum, they get a 2 and a Day 3 pick if they trade him and I feel oddly confident a 1st round pick is a real possibility, especially if it is a mid to late 1st

 

You can tag Payne but he still has to sign it. By the way, what are we going to do with Cam Curl, let him walk too.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

You can tag Payne but he still has to sign it. By the way, what are we going to do with Cam Curl, let him walk too.

I think we'll work out a long term extension with Curl. He's good but shouldn't be that expensive as he's had no Pro Bowls or All Pros and doesn't produce game changing impact stats.

[justice98]

2 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Move on and not get anything for them? Why did this happen? Why didn’t we have Payne locked up last year? Same crap over and over and getting tired of it. 

 

He wasnt playing at a level that he 100% needed to be locked up then.  Plus, there were other considerations affecting signing decisions, like what was happening with QB.

[Redskins Reparations]

On 2/1/2023 at 8:05 AM, drowland said:

I guess Sean Gilbert back in '98.  Two 1st round picks.  

“Those were the days…”

[Redskins Reparations]

I think we all know how this plays out if Payne walks. He will sign a contract to play for another NFC East team like the Eagles and dominate for 10+ years.

Edited February 2, 2023 by Redskins Reparations

[wit33]

Tag him for next two years, then let him walk if a deal can’t be worked out. Next two years are his athletic prime years on the average, milk those and keep it moving. 

[Pwyl]

Tag seems unlikely- don't they have to put the full tag amount in escrow as soon as it's applied? 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Pwyl said:

Tag seems unlikely- don't they have to put the full tag amount in escrow as soon as it's applied? 

Not sure, but there’s a league wide mandate that each team must spend 95% of their cap each season. 

[Pwyl]

A quick googling of the salary  floor indicates the floor doesn't work as you describe. 

[Redskinscub]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:05 AM, drowland said:

 

I guess Sean Gilbert back in '98.  Two 1st round picks.  

not a first but we did get a 5th for Albert Haynesworth

 

Trent and Kirk did not want to be here

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay and Standig talking about this just now.

 

A.  Neither think they got a LTD with Payne

B.  Likely tag for Payne

C.  They suspect Payne wouldn't be happy playing on the tag

 

They do think the ownership issue is an overhang over this.

 

Keim and Bram also talked about it.

 

A.  They think tag.

B.  Keim said last year the offers were for a third rounder for Payne, believes they'd get more after this season from Payne

C.  Thought maybe a lower first round pick or high 2nd rounder could be had for him now.  Or a later 2nd rounder with another pick thrown in

Edited February 6, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

A.  They think tag.

B.  Keim said last year the offers were for a third rounder for Payne, believes they'd get more after this season from Payne

C.  Thought maybe a lower first round pick or high 2nd rounder could be had for him now.  Or a later 2nd rounder with another pick thrown in

 

I'd take C in a heartbeat.  He's a good player and worth that to some team (my view may be biased from 20 years of Snyder-ism management).

On 2/1/2023 at 11:31 AM, Wyvern said:

[But, does that mean Washington would then need to sign up Sweat and/or Young to keep the defensive containment/pressure around the ends?  If so, then where does the team start 'pinching pennies' when they find they need to sign up the 'glue' of the defense's back-7?  

 

There's a lot of talk about retaining elite players -- but how many elite players can a team afford? 

 

A good GM would have planned for this eventuality.  Perhaps the team should never have picked Payne.  Perhaps the team should have traded out of the Young pick OR traded Sweat earlier.  Payne is the first headache - Sweat is the next.  I hope the team gets a good trade offer for Payne and uses the pick(s) wisely.  I haven't had confidence in the front office since Casserly and he was hit and miss at times anyway.

[CRobi21]

Keep both. Trade Chase Y.

[method man]

8 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

I'd take C in a heartbeat.  He's a good player and worth that to some team (my view may be biased from 20 years of Snyder-ism management).

 

A good GM would have planned for this eventuality.  Perhaps the team should never have picked Payne.  Perhaps the team should have traded out of the Young pick OR traded Sweat earlier.  Payne is the first headache - Sweat is the next.  I hope the team gets a good trade offer for Payne and uses the pick(s) wisely.  I haven't had confidence in the front office since Casserly and he was hit and miss at times anyway.

I would move Payne for a late 1st as well. Now, if you get a 1st, you do have the ammo to move up to the top 10 to take a Levis or Richardson. I wouldn’t do it but it is an option…

 

A late 1st would present a lot of interesting options. Importantly, it allows you to really focus on going BPA with #16 if you stay at #16 or it allows you to move up from #16 and package the comp pick to move up a few spots to get someone like a Paris Johnson. A wild card move with a late first is that you could use it on a DE so you have a guy in place to take over for Sweat or Chase because I don’t want to pay both those guys

[method man]

On 2/1/2023 at 9:05 AM, drowland said:

 

I guess Sean Gilbert back in '98.  Two 1st round picks.  

 

Did anyone know Sean Gilbert is Darrelle Revis's uncle?

[Warhead36]

I'm still eying that Lions #18 pick. They already have a really high pick from the Rams so they might be more willing to trade a 1, they'll have plenty of cap space to extend Payne, and their defense could use the boost in talent and production(imagine a Payne/Hutchinson DL wrecking havoc for the next 5+ years). Also Payne is young at 25 so he'd still fit in the Lions MO of building up a young base of talent. 

 

I think I'd even offer like our 4th or 5th along with Payne to get that 18 if need be. We could then lock down both a CB and RT of the future with two 1st round picks. 

[drowland]

On 2/2/2023 at 3:14 PM, Pwyl said:

Tag seems unlikely- don't they have to put the full tag amount in escrow as soon as it's applied? 

 

I think that's only for fully guaranteed money in future years of the contract.  Franchise tag is 1 year deal.  

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm still eying that Lions #18 pick. They already have a really high pick from the Rams so they might be more willing to trade a 1, they'll have plenty of cap space to extend Payne, and their defense could use the boost in talent and production(imagine a Payne/Hutchinson DL wrecking havoc for the next 5+ years). Also Payne is young at 25 so he'd still fit in the Lions MO of building up a young base of talent. 

 

I think I'd even offer like our 4th or 5th along with Payne to get that 18 if need be. We could then lock down both a CB and RT of the future with two 1st round picks. 

I see that lions pick as the prime opportunity to trade up for Richardson. Goff isnt their QB of the future. 

44 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

I think that's only for fully guaranteed money in future years of the contract.  Franchise tag is 1 year deal.  

The money is due the moment he signs the dotted line on the Tag. Makes me think he walks. Dan isnt going to want to sign a 18 million dollar check a month before he sells