Daron Payne or Jonathan Allen? You are the GM who do you keep?

[HigSkin]

 

[Est.1974]

What’s the deadline to get a deal done, Mid July ?

 

I think the ownership situation is sorted by then, one of the first roster related moves after that could be sanctioning the big money deal for Payne. 
 

 

[SoCalSkins]

15 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

What’s the deadline to get a deal done, Mid July ?

 

I think the ownership situation is sorted by then, one of the first roster related moves after that could be sanctioning the big money deal for Payne. 
 

 

July 17th this year. It’s normally the 15th but that’s a Saturday. Kinda like April 15 falling on a weekend for taxes. 

[Est.1974]

Still half expecting the Bears to come calling with a trade offer. 

[Est.1974]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:51 PM, Est.1974 said:

4 years 96mil, get in done.

Not too far off. Guess I would have overpaid 

[SoCalSkins]

Benefits of a 5th rd qb on a rookie deal

[KillBill26]

Payne is locked up!  Love it!!!!!!

[markmills67]

Great news, just in time for free agency also, possible low 2023 cap hit, more to spend in free agency. Cap this year could be as low as 8m.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Ron kept seeing that "Why not both?" gif and it had an effect on him lol...

[skinsmarydu]

29 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said:

Ron kept seeing that "Why not both?" gif and it had an effect on him lol...

IKR?  I'm so happy. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

It's still a stupid way to spend resources to have a starting DL whose AAV is $90+. 

 

Someone should have been moved a long time ago. One of them should still be moved. But Ron only cares about trying to get 9 wins this year, so he won't.

[Birdlives]

I don’t know about most but I’m for spending my resources on players who can play and stay healthy. Payne doesn’t miss games and he’s a net positive. I’m good with that. 

[London Kev]

I like the Payne signing a lot, we have aurguably the best interior D-line in the league locked up.

 

Now go out and FA/draft CB, LB, TE, lots of OL and I'll be very happy.

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's still a stupid way to spend resources to have a starting DL whose AAV is $90+. 

 

Someone should have been moved a long time ago. One of them should still be moved. But Ron only cares about trying to get 9 wins this year, so he won't.

When you're not paying your QB, there is no excuse to not pay your other players.

 

Heck there are teams like the Saints that are like $30 Mil over the cap and still go out and pay $40 Mil a year for a Derek Carr.

 

The salary cap kinda sorda doesn't really exist if you're smart about it.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's still a stupid way to spend resources to have a starting DL whose AAV is $90+. 

 

Someone should have been moved a long time ago. One of them should still be moved. But Ron only cares about trying to get 9 wins this year, so he won't.

90 for 4 years for a DL.   So many didn't want to pay a QB not long ago cause, you know, you couldn't build a team.

[XxSpearheadxX]

3 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

Payne is locked up!  Love it!!!!!!

No matter what we will get to enjoy seeing the bama boys play off each other for years. For a football fan like me thats a small victory for fun. I have to look for small victories lol

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

When you're not paying your QB, there is no excuse to not pay your other players.

 

Heck there are teams like the Saints that are like $30 Mil over the cap and still go out and pay $40 Mil a year for a Derek Carr.

 

The salary cap kinda sorda doesn't really exist if you're smart about it.

It's kind of funny how this becomes the "smart" take- that the cap just doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. 

 

Wonder why LA just traded the game's best CB for a 3rd round pick and a back-up TE? Wonder why The Titans just dumped a bunch of starters? Those aren't exactly rebuilding teams. Curious. 

 

The Saints are a great example. They went from a title contender to a perennial also ran, letting players leave and fiddling around the edges, without the cap to do anything substantial. And avoiding a major rebuild by restructuring deals so that they have to keep playing the same game every year. But they're proof that the cap doesn't mean anything. Weird. 

[ultravin]

3 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's still a stupid way to spend resources to have a starting DL whose AAV is $90+. 

 

Someone should have been moved a long time ago. One of them should still be moved. But Ron only cares about trying to get 9 wins this year, so he won't.

How is it stupid?  You do understand that they have PLENTY of cap space next year!  Plus, we’re paying  Sam NOT $40 mill a year!  Commanders need to take advantage of this rare occurrence!  Remember, this team LOVED spending money on OTHER players from other teams, it’s about time they started paying players within!

[wit33]

44 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’m on an island here.  I’m just not thrilled with locking up that kind of money at DT.  Beyond that, how long until Jon Allen wants to renegotiate?  What if Chase plays up to his potential, how do we keep him?

 

I realize those are what-ifs, and I also really like Payne - it just seems like a lot of money to lock up at the position.  They have to absolutely dominate every snap to justify the expense.

Obviously not a right or wrong situation, but open to going “all in” at the DT spot because they directly impact both the pass and run game, especially together. Washington can put Jags around them or behind them and I still expect them to compete in the run game consistently in most games. 
 

Dominating the trenches is the only chance you have against the elite QBs and they can bother or at times dominate against the 70% QB pool (Dak and Jones… Hurts is elite) (IMO). 

 

24 minutes ago, ultravin said:

How is it stupid?  You do understand that they have PLENTY of cap space next year!  Plus, we’re paying  Sam NOT $40 mill a year!  Commanders need to take advantage of this rare occurrence!  Remember, this team LOVED spending money on OTHER players from other teams, it’s about time they started paying players within!

 

[XxSpearheadxX]

Hes really young also and durable 

[NoCalMike]

The Allen & Payne contracts tell me that this organization is now paying for performance and Sweat & Chase are officially on the clock.  Chase gets more charity because he did ball out as a rookie and was working his way back from injury in a handful of games, but in 2023 our DE's either ball out or at least one isn't coming back.

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's kind of funny how this becomes the "smart" take- that the cap just doesn't matter. It's irrelevant. 

 

Wonder why LA just traded the game's best CB for a 3rd round pick and a back-up TE? Wonder why The Titans just dumped a bunch of starters? Those aren't exactly rebuilding teams. Curious. 

 

The Saints are a great example. They went from a title contender to a perennial also ran, letting players leave and fiddling around the edges, without the cap to do anything substantial. And avoiding a major rebuild by restructuring deals so that they have to keep playing the same game every year. But they're proof that the cap doesn't mean anything. Weird. 

Let me rephrase it: if you don't have significant money committed to your QB, the cap isn't really a factor, and there is no excuse to not keep good young players you have.

 

The Rams have to rebuild now because Stafford is finished. So not only do they have a lot of money tied up at QB, but they have money tied up in a guy who probably can't play anymore. They also have no 1st round pick this year. Its smart to restock the cupboards.

 

The Titans are rebuilding now as well. They have an albatross at QB in Tannehill. And their new GM is gonna want to revamp the team in his image. They put Henry on the trade block because he's a 29 year old RB. It isn't smart to keep a liability like that on your roster.

 

The Saints contended for many years. Once Brees retired they dropped off, but my point regarding them is that they're way over the cap and STILL managed to spend a bunch of money on Carr. So if they can do that, there is no real excuse for us to let a talented proven young player go for money reasons. 

 

We have basically nothing invested at the QB position. The only one on the roster right now is Howell who is making pennies(relatively speaking). So if you aren't paying your QB, then there is no justification for letting good players at other positions walk away. The Eagles are gonna be in a tight spot now because they're gonna have to give Hurts a mega deal, which is why they're putting guys like Slay on the trade block.

 

So in a couple years if Howell balls out and you have to pay him, then sure I can understand the reasoning for not wanting to pay a player like Payne for cap reasons. But now? Pay em. After all, the whole point of starting Howell is because a QB on a rookie deal allows you to stack the roster around him.

[Jericho]

6 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

It's still a stupid way to spend resources to have a starting DL whose AAV is $90+. 

 

Someone should have been moved a long time ago. One of them should still be moved. But Ron only cares about trying to get 9 wins this year, so he won't.

 

In a vacuum there is some truth to this. But the reality is that elite level players don't just appear out of thin air. Free agency tends to have B and C level guys at the more important positions. And trades are pretty costly and fairly risky. So the general idea is to retain the good players you have and only worry about the cap when you actually have enough good players to worry about it.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Let me rephrase it: if you don't have significant money committed to your QB, the cap isn't really a factor, and there is no excuse to not keep good young players you have.

 

Because there are limited resources to build;d a football team. From draft picks to roster spots to cap space, how you spend your resources determine how good your team will be. This should be self evident. 

 

So, committing enormous amounts fo those resources to one position, like DL, is not a smart way to build a team. It just isn't. And pretending the cap "doesn't matter" or it's okay because maybe the completely unproven 5th round QB will secure the position for a few years, doesn't really change that fact.

[NoCalMike]

To the point of the posts above, the Commanders might see themselves in a similar situation the Eagles were with Hurts.  I would call Hurts a good QB, but not great, however he is good enough that he will end up paid like a great QB (or at least what the standard of pay used to be, right?) so the Eagles probably figured they have a couple seasons to load up on as much talent around him before his contract takes up a much bigger % of the contract.  By then Hurts will have either grown and developed into a great QB or the Eagles could look to alter the contract or something else to off get off the hook. 

 

I think 2023 might be that season for Howell.  If he goes out in 2023 and  shows he is capable of being a QB you can win with (sprinkled in with dual threat playmaking ability) you might see them try to load up like crazy next offseason to make a run.

Edited March 13, 2023 by NoCalMike