Daron Payne or Jonathan Allen? You are the GM who do you keep?

[NewCliche21]

Random question, does a team that is having an ownership change get any accommodation? Like a fund that can be drawn from to allow for the 19M that the new owner would have to pay immediately or it's taken from future franchise revenue?

I had a job offer that was effectively commission, so I would get say $5K up front that would be paid back/withheld from my first few paychecks.  This allowed me to go from 30 clients to 0 without making me insolvent.  Nobody profited or lost from it, but it did allow for a transition.  I wish the NFL could do something similar.

[Est.1974]

44 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Random question, does a team that is having an ownership change get any accommodation? Like a fund that can be drawn from to allow for the 19M that the new owner would have to pay immediately or it's taken from future franchise revenue?

I had a job offer that was effectively commission, so I would get say $5K up front that would be paid back/withheld from my first few paychecks.  This allowed me to go from 30 clients to 0 without making me insolvent.  Nobody profited or lost from it, but it did allow for a transition.  I wish the NFL could do something similar.

I would think any investment made from this point forward would be factored into the eventual settlement/purchase amount. Why would a new owner not want a premier asset like Payne on the team? I see NFL financial operations quite different to ‘normal’ trading companies in this sale process. 
 

edit - I think Denver acquired Wilson during the sale process. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Est.1974

[FootballZombie]

57 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

edit - I think Denver acquired Wilson during the sale process. 

 

I think there is a lot to be gleaned from the Denver situation

 

Broncos officially go on sale- Feb 1st

Broncos trade for Russ- March 16th

NFL Free Agency period - Broncos brought in players, including some big deals like 5-yrs 70 Mil for Randy Gregory

Final round bidders announced (5 groups)- June 6th

Walton buys team- June 7th

Broncos sale ratified by owners- Aug 9th

Russ gets new deal in Sept I think

 

 

Its important to remember that all sales are different, but we can infer there is some level of business as usual, even during a sale. The Broncos went tru the NFLs biggest spending spree period of financial transactions (free agency) in the same spot we are in now, and they were still able to throw around some cash despite not knowing who their owner would be.

 

I think its fair to put weight on the idea that they waited for the ownership situation to fully flesh out before giving Russ the bag, but that was also a situation where everybody and their grandma knew that he was going to get a new deal based on the acquisition price and there was absolutely no rush to get it done. If there was any factor that was twisting their arms on the matter, they may have done it, but they didn't have to pay him right away in this case.

 

I'm sure orgs want to be as stable as possible during a sale, but we saw a club go thru this exact scenario last year and they didn't have to count and stress over every penny spent. I'd expect there is some kind of budget in place on our team, probably a stricter one than normal, but there is still a level of business as usual at play for us as well.

[Est.1974]

@FootballZombie totally agree. It may not play out that way here, but it’s no ‘excuse’ in my opinion. 

[KDawg]

Business as usual here has been not spending money. And remember, there is nothing saying this sale happens. Signs point that way, but again… I trust nothing with Snyder.

[50yrSKINSfan]

If I am the GM I am trying to trade Payne although last year would have been better, that is if we have someone to replace him already here. Having  2 DT making top money is not nec.  Now he will want top dollar from us and whoever is interested. I want at least a mid 1st and a mid 2nd. I would use the pics on the TE from ND and use the 2 nd on a Guard.

[50yrSKINSfan]

Just now, 50yrSKINSfan said:

If I am the GM I am trying to trade Payne although last year would have been better, that is if we have someone to replace him already here. Having  2 DT making top money is not nec.  Now he will want top dollar from us and whoever is interested. I want at least a mid 1st and a mid 2nd. I would use the pics on the TE from ND and use the 2 nd on a Guard.

You have to think ahead when you draft 4 D linemen with high #1 pics in a 4 year period. I would now try to unload Sweat and or CY before they kill us with demands. What would you have on the D line, 4 guys getting 15mil a year each?

[Birdlives]

7 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

Random question, does a team that is having an ownership change get any accommodation? Like a fund that can be drawn from to allow for the 19M that the new owner would have to pay immediately or it's taken from future franchise revenue?

I had a job offer that was effectively commission, so I would get say $5K up front that would be paid back/withheld from my first few paychecks.  This allowed me to go from 30 clients to 0 without making me insolvent.  Nobody profited or lost from it, but it did allow for a transition.  I wish the NFL could do something similar.

 

it’s salary, not an up front guarantee. If we franchise Payne he then has to sign the tag. At that point the salary counts against the cap but it’s salary not signing bonus. It counts against the cap but there is no need to escrow the money. It will come out of payroll and is not an out of pocket expense.

[FootballZombie]

40 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

it’s salary, not an up front guarantee. If we franchise Payne he then has to sign the tag. At that point the salary counts against the cap but it’s salary not signing bonus. It counts against the cap but there is no need to escrow the money. It will come out of payroll and is not an out of pocket expense.

 

Oooo, that is good to know.

I'd imagine trades work in a similar fashion as long as a no new deal is involved.

 

Similar to the Russ Wilson scenario if you were to bring in a player via trade, the other team eats the G bonus money and your not on the hook for escrow payments, so in terms of up front payment, there is very little outside of maybe bonus that activate on set dates.

 

That could have major implications on how we operate this year, with both Payne and other positions.

 

 

Good pull dude, that is very useful info.

[skinsfan4128]

I'd rather us spend the money on Payne as opposed to Sweat.

 

Payne was a helluva lot more consistent than Sweat this season.  Having that interior push can be more productive than having Sweat occasionally show up every other game.

 

HTTR!

[KDawg]

10 hours ago, skinsfan4128 said:

I'd rather us spend the money on Payne as opposed to Sweat.

 

Payne was a helluva lot more consistent than Sweat this season.  Having that interior push can be more productive than having Sweat occasionally show up every other game.

 

HTTR!

 

Agree. I'd love to have Payne back, but I do see where guys like Ridgeway and Mathis make him a touch more expendable (but neither are Payne and that needs to be made clear).

 

But Sweat... The guy doesn't finish enough for the contract he is going to want. Now is the time to move him. This offseason. Many will be against that based on the potential of the front four, especially if Payne is brought back. But it's the same thing we've heard for a few offseasons now. Granted Young was coming back from injury so we didn't get the full show with that group this year, but I have been underwhelmed by the four of them together every time they've all been out there. Payne and Allen are the only two that have really lived up to the hype.

 

Young as the overall #2 pick, an emotional leader on the team and a guy with high upside who has been derailed by serious injuries is a better long term bet than Sweat, who has been healthier and is a pressure machine but is going to cost a ton for his sack production.

 

To be clear, I think people here think I don't like Sweat as a player. That's not true. I don't like Sweat as a value and there is a difference. If you told me salary cap concerns vs. his production were unimportant I'd love to have Sweat here. But they are. And his cost vs. production is a concern. And he gets enough pressures that he could get a real nice return at this point. I don't want to see us in a Payne situation with Sweat, either. Now is the time to move him. Having said all of that, I think he'll go elsewhere and wind up more productive on another team. But that's okay. 

[Jericho]

I would agree that now is the time to move Sweat. He's not a bad player, but not good enough for the contract he'll almost certainly get. And some of that is just forward thinking, like when the Pats would trade a guy a year early. Payne just seems like a must keep to me. He's better than Sweat. He's younger than Sweat. If you can't reach a deal, then I'd suggest tagging him, even if its just a transition tag. And it's not like there is an obvious replacement for him. Ridgeway was literally cut 4 months ago and Mathis has never played a single NFL down. There's theoretical upside there, but there's theoretical upside in almost anyone.

[Redwards]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:12 PM, 50yrSKINSfan said:

You have to think ahead when you draft 4 D linemen with high #1 pics in a 4 year period. I would now try to unload Sweat and or CY before they kill us with demands. What would you have on the D line, 4 guys getting 15mil a year each?

Yup.

 

The other problem that no one is really talking about is that even when all are healthy, this D line isn't remotely as good as their pub.  They can be (and are) run on by the better O lines in the league, and only really assert any kind of dominance against mediocre to bad offenses.  

 

This D line should be what Philly's is.  It never has been and never will be. 

 

Time to trade a player or two and get some damn picks and reallocate assets properly.  

[Zim489]

On 1/27/2023 at 3:12 PM, 50yrSKINSfan said:

What would you have on the D line, 4 guys getting 15mil a year each?

A weak back 7.
 

I would move on from Payne and Sweat at this point. 

Edited January 30, 2023 by Zim489

[Skinsinparadise]

If the idea is letting him go why wouldn't they tag and trade?

 

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/2023-Senior-Bowl-Rumors-Tuesday

 

 

With all the general managers, coaches and scouts in attendance for the Senior Bowl, there is a lot of chatter going around. Here are some of the highlights from around the league on Day 2 of the 2023 Senior Bowl week.
 

• Multiple team sources shared with WalterFootball.com that they believe Washington Commanders defensive tackle Daron Payne might be the most sought-after free agent this year, provided he hits the open market. Payne picked a perfect time to have a dominant season, as he reorded 11.5 sacks and 64 tackles in 2022 for the franchise formerly known as the Redskins. Payne will be only 26 entering next season, so he is hitting the prime of his career. Finding quality interior pass rushers is a very difficult in the NFL, so team sources think Payne will face a big market.
  
  Sources from around the league think there is a good chance that Payne will not get hit with the franchise tag. The Commanders have to account for looming contract extensions for Montez Sweat and Chase Young. Fellow defensive tackle Jonathan Allen already received a big contract, and Washington drafted Alabama defensive tackle Phidarian Mathis in the second round last year. Additionally, the Commanders could be in the market for an expensive veteran quarterback. The organization also decided to give Allen a big contract and did not negotiate an extension with Payne prior to his huge 2022 season. Here is a reason why per a source with the Commanders: "The [top decision makers] liked him, but weren't in love with him. Daron has so much potential, but never tapped in as much as they would have liked." Hence, many around the NFL think Payne stands a good chance of hitting the open market.

 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If the idea is letting him go why wouldn't they they tag and trade?

 

 

I don't see why you wouldn't either.

 

As long as you manage the deadlines I don't see why a tag and trade is not the worst case scenario for Payne. Allowing Payne to walk into FA would be terribly dumb. If your not gonna give him a new deal, get something for him. As long as its a 3rd or better your coming out ahead of the possible non-guaranteed comp pick.

Edited January 31, 2023 by FootballZombie

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If the idea is letting him go why wouldn't they they tag and trade?

May not even have the cash to even sign a tag if theres zero trade offers. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

13 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

May not even have the cash to even sign a tag if theres zero trade offers. 

Sorry, but that is nonsense.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

May not even have the cash to even sign a tag if theres zero trade offers. 

 

there were trade offers last year before his breakthrough season, why would that stop this offseason after a bigger year and a pro bowl appearance 

Edited January 31, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[NewCliche21]

19 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

May not even have the cash to even sign a tag if theres zero trade offers. 

 

Don't forget there's a cap floor, too. We can't just NOT spend money.

God I hope we re-sign or do whatever the **** you do to get the right to match or two firsts to let him go.

[Zim489]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

there were trade offers last year before his breakthrough season, why would that stop this offseason after a bigger year and a pro bowl appearance 

Im saying that if they cant come to an agreement on compensation they would have to sign him. They might not even have the budget for the 19 mil to start off with. 

 

Not saying if he gets trade offers. Worded poorly on my part. 

2 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

Don't forget there's a cap floor, too. We can't just NOT spend money.

Were already at the floor. 

[NewCliche21]

7 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Im saying that if they cant come to an agreement on compensation they would have to sign him. They might not even have the budget for the 19 mil to start off with. 

 

Not saying if he gets trade offers. Worded poorly on my part. 

Were already at the floor. 

 

No, what I mean is that the CBA says they HAVE TO spend X amount of dollars. We hear about the high end (cap) that you can't go beyond, but there's a floor that you can't spend under. I can't find where it is, but it does exist or else the NFLPA would lose their ****.

[Zim489]

9 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

No, what I mean is that the CBA says they HAVE TO spend X amount of dollars. We hear about the high end (cap) that you can't go beyond, but there's a floor that you can't spend under. I can't find where it is, but it does exist or else the NFLPA would lose their ****.

We’ e hit the floor

[Warhead36]

My guess is there is already a set amount of money accrued to spending on players so it doesn't matter whether Snyder wants to spend or not, because that money is already committed to that aspect of the franchise. How Payne's contract and franchise tag affects that though I don't know.

[Jericho]

On 1/26/2023 at 9:59 PM, KDawg said:

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

 

There's always a transition tag at about $16 million. Though it's more risky for obvious reasons