Daron Payne or Jonathan Allen? You are the GM who do you keep?

[tomwvr]

On 1/11/2023 at 6:55 PM, The Rook said:

Let me get this right, this thread is about which one they keep?  Isn't Allen already signed? 

 

Isn't this just another discussion about Payne?  Hasn't this been discussed (a lot) before?

 

OK - some simple things:

Don't franchise him - sign him or don't sign him

Do recognize that he has become a high level DT

Don't pay him Allen money - I have no problem if it is almost that level, but not that level

Do consider that maybe one of the reasons this has been a breakout year is that Sam Mills had been misusing him. 

Don't worry about the "paying both" - cap keeps going up

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I say offer the same contract as Allen. Its 2023 a 4 year contract is at the same value is worth less to the cap in later years.

if he doesnt take it tag him the cost would be 3-5 mil less than the long term contract and since its one year payne may be motivated like this year.

[HigSkin]

 

[ultravin]

His price just went up.  If Seahawks come calling about Payne, I would definitely entertain their offer.  I’d ask for their late first and late second for Payne!

[Warhead36]

36 minutes ago, ultravin said:

His price just went up.  If Seahawks come calling about Payne, I would definitely entertain their offer.  I’d ask for their late first and late second for Payne!

We'd be lucky to get just the 1st and I'd take that but no harm in asking for the farm.

 

I think Lions might be the better fit. Their own pick is around 18. Their interior DL blows and Payne would also help their pass rush. They already have a high 1st from the Rams and lots of cap space to pay Payne.

[PlayAction]

Tag and trade Daron Payne to get something better than the potential future compensatory pick.  The team has decent back-ups and a 2nd rounder from the last draft that never played.  Just don't let him walk with zero compensation for the team.  Payne is young and can potentially get at least two more big contracts if he stays healthy.  He's valuable to other teams.  High sack count and now his first (albeit late) pro bowl.  He's worth more than a third-round pick IMO.      

[Est.1974]

Just give Payne a boat load of cash on a long term deal and be happy he’s one of ours.

[Daniel.redskins]

After watching the San Fran defense yesterday, we desperately need linebackers.  Like really bad.  We need to trade Payne.  Yes, he's a great player but Allen is our long term DT.  We also have two young guys with potential in Ridgeway and Mathis.  Lack of a true MLB will hold this defense back from being legit.  

[RWJ]

17 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

After watching the San Fran defense yesterday, we desperately need linebackers.  Like really bad.  We need to trade Payne.  Yes, he's a great player but Allen is our long term DT.  We also have two young guys with potential in Ridgeway and Mathis.  Lack of a true MLB will hold this defense back from being legit.  

We also need to think about our DEs.  I resign Sweat to a LTD too. 

[method man]

13 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

After watching the San Fran defense yesterday, we desperately need linebackers.  Like really bad.  We need to trade Payne.  Yes, he's a great player but Allen is our long term DT.  We also have two young guys with potential in Ridgeway and Mathis.  Lack of a true MLB will hold this defense back from being legit.  

Finding a guy like Fred Warner who can go cover CeeDee Lamb 40 yards down the field is easier said than done

There is one guy in free agency that excites me at off ball linebacker and that is Lavonte David. He is old but just had another amazing year. Don’t know if he would want to leave Tampa but may if they blow it up after Brady leaves. Otherwise, you are best off just resigning Holcomb

Edited January 24, 2023 by method man

[HigSkin]

 

[Birdlives]

If they can’t pay Payne and it looks to me like that’s the problem (I.e. dan ain’t gonna put dollar 1 into escrow for a bonus and probably can’t afford to) they have to franchise him. They’re not required to take 2 1st rounders, they accept whatever trade they want or match any offer. He has to be worth a 1st. I would look for a 1 and 3 and see who bites. He’s a known quantity who can play 3 downs and doesn’t get injured unlike Allen, who is better but more fragile. I said already I would keep Payne but if the current situation is what it looks like, dan isn’t close to willing to put up money to help the team and does seem the type to poison the well on the way out by not getting guys we developed under contract. I think Ron can franchise him though because it’s not guaranteed salary right now. You have to get more than a 3rd next year. He (Ron) already gave away Trent on an ego thing. If he lets Payne walk for nothing he shouldn’t make the scouting combine. It’s gross negligence.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Birdlives said:

If they can’t pay Payne and it looks to me like that’s the problem (I.e. dan ain’t gonna put dollar 1 into escrow for a bonus and probably can’t afford to) they have to franchise him. They’re not required to take 2 1st rounders, they accept whatever trade they want or match any offer. He has to be worth a 1st. I would look for a 1 and 3 and see who bites. He’s a known quantity who can play 3 downs and doesn’t get injured unlike Allen, who is better but more fragile. I said already I would keep Payne but if the current situation is what it looks like, dan isn’t close to willing to put up money to help the team and does seem the type to poison the well on the way out by not getting guys we developed under contract. I think Ron can franchise him though because it’s not guaranteed salary right now. You have to get more than a 3rd next year. He (Ron) already gave away Trent on an ego thing. If he lets Payne walk for nothing he shouldn’t make the scouting combine. It’s gross negligence.

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

 

So what would you do, then? Kind of hard to just let him walk after the season he just had.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

 

I mean, where else are you really going to spend it? At least Payne is good and young. This team has blown a lot of money on far worse players and I don't see a ton of great free agent options signing here (and fewer that will be worth it). 

[Panninho]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

We aren't going to spend big anywhere else anyways this year. The new ownership should be in place next year with a new GM, they can then decide what to do with Payne. Is it ideal? No. But it's also not ideal to just let him walk for basically a 4th round pick in 2024.

[FootballZombie]

We should want to bring Payne back, the lopsided investment in DL is not ideal roster construction, but it does not matter. It is what it is at this point and Payne has proven himself on the field. You don't move on from Payne in the hope of getting a player of Payne's quality at another position. You have a bird in the hand here. A bird that you know fits well in your scheme no less.

 

If the money is not there, or you can't agree to a deal, then scout out the Tag n trade route. That should really be the worst case scenario. No way do you let this guy walk for a possible 3rd rd comp pick. Get something for him this year.

 

[Est.1974]

I know it’s a numbers game in terms of salary cap, but I’m going to be very disappointed if we let Payne walk away. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a massive Jon Allen supporter and want them both here. Gut feeling tells me Allen is a better option for 2-3 years, but with Payne we could be getting 5-6 years of elite level play. My guess is Allen may well wear down quicker.
 

Find a way to keep them both in the short/medium term.

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, bird_1972 said:

 

So what would you do, then? Kind of hard to just let him walk after the season he just had.

Work out a long term deal. Find a way to get one done last off-season. I’m doubting paying him $19M this year is in the budget for Snyder. 

 

7 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

I mean, where else are you really going to spend it? At least Payne is good and young. This team has blown a lot of money on far worse players and I don't see a ton of great free agent options signing here (and fewer that will be worth it). 

Likely no where… including on Payne. If Snyder is truly selling he is going to do the bare minimum payout wise. 
 

I’m on record as wanting Payne here. But our situation matters more than many give merit. 

 

2 hours ago, Panninho said:

We aren't going to spend big anywhere else anyways this year. The new ownership should be in place next year with a new GM, they can then decide what to do with Payne. Is it ideal? No. But it's also not ideal to just let him walk for basically a 4th round pick in 2024.

We aren’t going to spend big anywhere. Snyder has to pay that $19M. I have my doubts.

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Work out a long term deal. Find a way to get one done last off-season. I’m doubting paying him $19M this year is in the budget for Snyder. 

 

We aren’t going to spend big anywhere. Snyder has to pay that $19M. I have my doubts.

I don’t see that as a factor. IF Snyder is staying, maybe the wider cash flow matter might be a problem. 
 

Keeping Payne increases the value of the overall asset you are selling. If you put money in escrow, that would be reimbursable under a sale. Or if it’s 19mil salary on a tag, that’s likely pro-rated on an what, a monthly basis. So it’s not all upfront. I don't think so anyway.

[Birdlives]

11 hours ago, KDawg said:

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

im good with that. Less than we’d spend on Wentz.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

I don’t see that as a factor. IF Snyder is staying, maybe the wider cash flow matter might be a problem. 
 

Keeping Payne increases the value of the overall asset you are selling. If you put money in escrow, that would be reimbursable under a sale. Or if it’s 19mil salary on a tag, that’s likely pro-rated on a what, a monthly basis. So it’s not all upfront. I don't think so anyway.

I disagree. I see it as a huge factor. Of course he may be tagged and the $19M is banked. But I’m not sure how you look at how this team is operating as of late and believe there isn’t a chance that Snyder’s cash strap is an issue here I don’t know how to convince you. And that’s okay. We all have opinions.

[HigSkin]

 

 

[formerly4skins]

I'm inclined to say you find a way to keep both.

 

If I'm allocating resources along the DL, Sweat is the one I'm moving before he needs a big payday. 

[method man]

12 hours ago, KDawg said:

So one issue with this plan… if no one bites were on the hook for $19M in salary for Payne. About a million more than Allen and $37M tied up in two DTs.

You could franchise for now and a new owner can okay the extension for both Payne and Curl once he is in seat. This would ultimately reduce the cap hit some for 2023, albeit too late for the bulk of FA

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, method man said:

You could franchise for now and a new owner can okay the extension for both Payne and Curl once he is in seat. This would ultimately reduce the cap hit some for 2023, albeit too late for the bulk of FA

This is assuming the sale happens any time soon. I know reports indicate it will, so it’s hopeful. But I don’t deal with hopeful when it comes to Snyder. So I’ll wait and see.