Next Day Thread: The Jaguars vs. The Command

[Warhead36]

Its mind boggling to me that Turner is still being criticized so heavily. The offense put up 28 points despite three turnovers. We were 4/4 in the red zone. The ball was spread to multiple targets. The offense dropped off some when Schweitzer went out and our OL couldn't hold up in pass protection anymore. That ain't on him.

[Thinking Skins]

Honestly it starts with Wentz to me. What I saw is a guy who makes average players better. That goes for defense too. The fact that Gibson and Samuel were the guys on offense is interesting but they aren't really household names. We were talking about cutting both of them this off-season (the fans). But having a QB that makes them defend the whole field and can also run with it really changes how the game is played. 

 

 

He did slip up. Turner changed the offense, our guards were hurt and we were up 2 scores so maybe we were trying to just kill the clock and we made some mistakes. But again at saw what having a good QB can do. Previous QBs wouldn't have thrown those balls up. I'm talking Heinicke, Smith, Haskins, Allen, McCoy, Cousins. They wouldn't do it. So we lose that game. Wentz put them up and our guys came down with the go ahead TDs. 

 

I think we're on the brink of a 1999 level offense again 

[Ball Security]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its mind boggling to me that Turner is still being criticized so heavily. The offense put up 28 points despite three turnovers. We were 4/4 in the red zone. The ball was spread to multiple targets. The offense dropped off some when Schweitzer went out and our OL couldn't hold up in pass protection anymore. That ain't on him.

Yeah, I don’t think it was necessarily play call as much as execution in the middle of the game.  For example, on one drive in the third, they got a first, then a 2nd and two.  Wentz missed Samuel low which would move the chains, then Bates had a drop killing that drive.

[justice98]

Turner's got a lot of toys to play with.  Will be interesting to see when his two rookies (Robinson and Turner) get healthy.  I can see some games where 8-10 guys touch it.

[Warhead36]

IF I were to criticize Turner the only thing I'd say is he didn't do enough to move McLaurin around to get favorable matchups like the Jags did with Kirk, or what O'Connell did with Jefferson and the Vikings in their game vs. the Packers today. But it looks like the gameplan was for everyone to eat so I really can't complain. You score 28 points despite 3 turnovers, the OC did a good job.

[bearrock]

FWIW, I hope you continue doing the NDT @KDawg.  Always enjoy reading your NDT post and the discussion it generates.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Chris 44]

29 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

For me the biggest takeaway is that you can see how this could be a very dangerous, maybe even an elite offense. Now, they didn’t play great for the whole game, @KDawg highlighted Turner going conservative in the middle of the game and that can’t continue. 
 

But Wentz spread it around, he used his weapons in a balanced manner.  If they can all stay healthy and if Turner stops going conservative after getting an early lead, they can put up a bunch of points. Samuel, Dotson, McLaurin and Gibson on the field at once? Forget it. 
 

I wrote this in the other thread, but I like Wentz’s short memory. He came right back and wasn’t afraid to chuck it after his two picks.  Some might call it a gunslinger’s mentality but I just view it as a guy who believes in his stuff. 
 

This game probably has a very different outcome if Lawrence didn’t struggle in the beginning, he missed some

throws that would put points on the board and he was able to find a bit of a groove later on.  I like that JDR was able to ramp up the pressure but the rest of the defense leaves a lot to be desired. 
 

I think we’re in line for a lot of shootouts this season.  I still don’t know if Wentz is the guy to take this team on a deep playoff run but he’s certainly better than anyone we’ve had under center for the past 10 years or so, it’s obvious. 
 

Also excited to have a rookie 1st round pick come out and play like a veteran. Dotson was awesome today, can’t wait to see more. 

Wentz sailed at least 2 throws over guys who were wide open for big gains (think it was Milne and Logan) if he can figure that part of his game out that would be huge.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Its mind boggling to me that Turner is still being criticized so heavily. The offense put up 28 points despite three turnovers. We were 4/4 in the red zone. The ball was spread to multiple targets. The offense dropped off some when Schweitzer went out and our OL couldn't hold up in pass protection anymore. That ain't on him.

 

The fact that we lost the turnover battle 3:1 and still won is a statistical anamoly.   We shoiuld embrace it considering if we were playing a better team we'd have lost this one.  You can't lose the turnover game like this typically and win.  So yeah Turner to me was fine. 

 

 

On another note, Logan Thomas looked slow post surgery.  Getting Cole Turner next week should help. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, Chris 44 said:

Wentz sailed at least 2 throws over guys who were wide open for big gains (think it was Milne and Logan) if he can figure that part of his game out that would be huge.

 

I don't think there is much to figure out there. He saw they were open and made the right choice to go that way. Just needs to work on his mechanics to increase consistency.

[Chris 44]

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

I don't think there is much to figure out there. He saw they were open and made the right choice to go that way. Just needs to work on his mechanics to increase consistency.

Excited to see what he can do as he gets more comfortable with this offense. Prior to today he had what, 3 or 4 quarters of preseason / recievers, with a much scaled back playbook

[Skinsinparadise]

I've liked but not loved Payne through his tenure here.

 

Logan Paulsen said in camp he senses a different type of determination from Payne, speculated it could be because of it being a contract year.  Brian Mitchell mentioned Payne wants to get paid -- that was his takeaway from being around camp.

 

For me, I got nothing wrong with whatever drives a player.  Payne wouldn't be the first player to put up his best season during a contract year.  And he's off to a good start. 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Payne has always been good and very under appreciated by the fans. Dude is reliable as heck and very durable(only missed one game in four years)and I believe played a ridiculously high % of snaps last year. He's also only 25 years old so it could be that he's just hitting his prime.

 

We're gonna regret not giving him a long term deal. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

Gibson played about as well as you can ask a RB1 in this offense to play.  Very happy for him.

[max21]

All 3 of our main wideouts scored today. Pretty dope 

[FootballZombie]

Payne looked like the best guy on the field today. Went against a good G in Brandon too so that bodes well for his continued success.

 

We went right back to the Gibby show with the lion's share of rushes going his way, but we did work him more into the passing game as well. Not counting Wentz unplanned ones no one else got more than 4 carries. I don't think this staff wants to split his load with anything less than a B Rob unless he puts it on the turf.  I speculated this was the most likely outcome and it looks like its playing out. We riding this wave boys.

 

C Sam lined up allover the place which was cool.

 

Forrest just played his way into buffallo nickel when we are fully healthy.

 

Dot might be our redzone threat, which is sorely needed cuz Logan did not look like Logan.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by FootballZombie

[mistertim]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I've liked but not loved Payne through his tenure here.

 

Logan Paulsen said in camp he senses a different type of determination from Payne, speculated it could be because of it being a contract year.  Brian Mitchell mentioned Payne wants to get paid -- that was his takeaway from being around camp.

 

For me, I got nothing wrong with whatever drives a player.  Payne wouldn't be the first player to put up his best season during a contract year.  And he's off to a good start. 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I don't really fault guys for wanting to get paid, but I'm always wary about a player who seems to up his game quite a bit on a contract year. 

 

48 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Payne has always been good and very under appreciated by the fans. Dude is reliable as heck and very durable(only missed one game in four years)and I believe played a ridiculously high % of snaps last year. He's also only 25 years old so it could be that he's just hitting his prime.

 

We're gonna regret not giving him a long term deal. 

 

I think the issue would be how much Payne wants. If he wants a mega contract, he's not worth that. If he wants a reasonable one, then great, I'd like to have him back. He's a good and very reliable player but he's never really been any more than that. The Commanders clearly think at least somewhat the same way, otherwise they would have been working hard to get him signed to a new contract.

[dckey]

Don't see how the play calling got conservative if anything he was to aggressive in the second half.  4 drives before TD drives with 2 int and the other 2 with 3 rushing att for 15 yards and 10 pass att.  We had a 2nd & 2,  and 3rd & 2.  Both were pass attempts one dropped by Bates

[757SeanTaylor21]

With Mathis being injured and having no idea on severity I think we need to re visit the idea of paying the man. He was going crazy. 

 

Was an up and down game but we don't win the game with a lesser qb. A qb who can hit throws and put some mustard on it was the game changer. 

[skinsfan93]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

St Juste is an excellent hybrid. He looked like Landon Collins out there, except younger and with a bit more range and actual desire to play in that spot on the defense. He provided some excellent pass rushes and set up a big sack by Toohill (which was negated by penalty).

I completely disagree with you on St Juste. Watch the highlights that was posted on YouTube and you will see St Juste was lost at times and more concerning was lackadaisical on some. Watch the 2nd play in this highlight reel when Robinson breaks off a long yard. You actually see St Juste running away from the play. 
 

Watch at 3:30, he actually played soft at coming off a simple block and let Etinenne run right past him. 
 

On the drop by Etinenne at the goal line, I believe he was St Justes responsibility but he got lost in the backfield trying to cover a receiver. These are some of his mistakes in just the first half. I’m sure he had many more in the 2nd half but I didn’t look at it closely. 
 

https://youtu.be/aosepuuGeIg

Edited September 12, 2022 by skinsfan93

[Warhead36]

St. Juste is a press man to man corner. That's about all he can do well. He is bad in space and has stiff hips.

[Reaper Skins]

My biggest takeaway:

 

This team is still fighting itself more than it fights its opponents.

 

We have talent, but we're not using it to its potential.  Head scratching calls on offense, poor designs on defense, and complete lack of threats on special teams

 

We had a few lucky breaks and dropped passes go our way, but this team really needs to learn how to get out of their own way or we'll be over-complicating things all season long.

 

This was the easy part of the easiest schedule in the league.  The lucky breaks aren't gonna keep up like this

Edited September 12, 2022 by Reaper Skins

[Darth Tater]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

It's a shame they have never been able to just put a freaking team away when they have them down. Seems to always be both sides of the ball, Del Rio and Turner that can't go for the juggler. Or is it Rivera?

Don't know but failure to put away the other team is pretty common in the NFL. This week, less than half the teams were out of it when the fourth quarter started.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Wentz sailed at least 2 throws over guys who were wide open for big gains (think it was Milne and Logan) if he can figure that part of his game out that would be huge.

 

I think it was Milne and Dotson (in 1st quarter). The one to Logan looked more like lack of chemistry/coaching/whatever. Logan just got back from injury, and unless I'm misremembering he went more front pylon when Wentz was throwing for more back pylon. That seems more lack of being on the same page.

[petey hodge]

6 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Are Dyami Brown's days on the team numbered?  Where does he fit into this WR rotation (assuming everyone is healthy).  I know he has a specific skillset but it isn't unique enough to really stand out amongst a WR core that already is speedy to begin with.