2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

Darnell is technically raw as a blocker, which kind of surprised me a little bit and negatively colored my view when I watched his cut ups.  But I think I'm feeling more open to him now.  No college tight end is ever that consistent and masterful of a blocker because they would probably be playing on the OL if they were.  They are going to miss blocks and get shucked, the goal is more to slow things down for DLs and then get out on those safeties and linebackers and move them in lead blocking type scenarios, which Darnell does at a high level.

 

I don't think he's as savvy and aware of a blocker as Mayer is, who just seems to have a natural feel for where everyone is in the area.  But he's more athletic.  His potential as a blocker does seem unique, once he gains more mastery and learns to let his technique do the heavy lifting so that he doesn't have to keep athleting every situation out there.

 

I have mixed feelings about drafting him at 16.  On the one hand, making him the first tight end off the board with two potential Pro-Bowl guys in Kincaid and Mayer sitting there behind him makes me really nervous.  We would never feel good about picking OJ Howard or Darren Fells if the Cowboys get Zach Ertz and someone else gets the next Jason Witten in the 20s.  But two things:

 

1 - I do want Darnell on this team.  Am I going to haggle about the value of him at 16 if we get someone like Dawand Jones, Cody Mauch, or O'Cyrus Torrence, in the second and someone like Clark Phillips or maybe even Julius Brents in the third?  Hell no.

 

Or another way to play it is something like Washington, Ringo/Brents/Forbes, then Avila in the third.

 

2 - I can see a path where Darnell is the right pick for us even though I think Kincaid and Mayer are better than him.  I see a situation where they end up getting better stats than him, and get the Pro-Bowl nods, but we win with Darnell.  It'd look like a reach, and maybe it'd be easier to just go Mayer or Kincaid.  But I think Darnell would be one of the identtity-defining guys, like BRob and Terry, who doesn't really get the accolades outside of the building, but makes the culture better inside of it.

 

My absolute favorite draft scenario is one where we get both Darnell and Dawand Jones.  I was thinking Dawand at 16 and Darnell somewhere in the second, but if the more plausible play is to pick Darnell at 16 then move back up from 47 for Dawand, then I'm all for that.  After hearing that radio segment where the Saints have been targeting him at 29, I think that constitutes Darnell's floor.  Dawand might still be there heading into day two.

 

 

I get the early vibe that they want to trade down so they are scoping out different players who would be there in a trade down.  If you judge it by mocks -- Dawand fits that, so does Darnell, so does Torrence maybe Harrison, maybe Wright.

 

I get that impression based on a comment from Keim.  Logan Paulsen keeps pushing trading down and he works for the team. And Rivera seems to be proud of what they did with their trade down last year. 

 

And I suspect they will indeed find trading partners to do it because I suspect there will be some unexpected faller to that spot.

 

So I am guessing they aren't locked into one player but locked into multiple players like they were last year if they lost out on Drake London.

 

I don't get the sense they are thinking TE early but if they did take one Darnell would make sense because they seem into:

 

A. Bringing some nasty to the offense

 

B.  Springing open bigger plays as to YAC, via the running games, screens, WCO concepts

 

And Washington to me as blocker, his gift is blocking on the move-2nd level.  He's both fast, powerful and willing.  

Edited March 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Turner, another one of my faves but i wouldn't go as ar as the #2 corner in the draft but surprised he gets so little buzz aside from some during the combine

 

 

 

[method man]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Turner, another one of my faves but i wouldn't go as ar as the #2 corner in the draft but surprised he gets so little buzz aside from some during the combine

 

 

 

 

It's because he is likely a nickel at the next level given his size and length

[method man]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

My gut says you're right.  But I think conditioning issues are that one big potential red flag that will hang over Dawand his whole career, and I could see it hurting his draft stock.

 

But I suspect Pittsburgh is weighing Dawand vs Joey Porter, and I could see them going with Dawand over him if both are on the board.  They're going to make a run with Pickett and Pickens and Najee.  That offense is about to take off.

 

If I were the GM, Dawand would be my pick at 16.  But the mock drafters are low on Dawand and they might be right.  I thought Cosmi was going to be a first round pick and we got him in the second.  I don't think he will, but it wouldn't shock me if Dawand drops.

 

Would you guys trade back from 16 to 31 with Kansas City for their second rounder (63) and one of their fourths?

 

The Chiefs make the deal to move up for someone like JSN/Quentin Johnston or an OT like Anton Harrison/Dawand Jones.

 

That would give us 31, 47, 63, 97, 118, and probably 122 for our first four rounds.  Does that feel worth it? 

 

What if you then use some ammo to go back up for someone like Darnell Washington in the late 20s to get in front of New Orleans at 29?

 

If they decide that they are set at tackle and don't require one, your proposed trade with KC is the way to go. You could probably pick up a starting TE, a starting G, a C (at least the backup to Gates), a 3rd corner, a LB and a receiving back with those 6 picks - need to take advantage that our positions of need are also the deepest in this draft (outside of off ball LB)

 

You would then have the 5, the 6s and the 7. Can grab the 3rd QB and backup buffalo nickel. Could also choose from a kicker to compete with Slye, an extra LB, a developmental EDGE, a return man, etc with those final 2 picks.

 

The second order effect is that it allows you to then release Logan Thomas and Roullier to open up a bit more cap space this offseason

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Would you guys trade back from 16 to 31 with Kansas City for their second rounder (63) and one of their fourths?

 

The Chiefs make the deal to move up for someone like JSN/Quentin Johnston or an OT like Anton Harrison/Dawand Jones.

I would certainly trade back with KC, I can imagine that’s something they’ve discussed to be honest. But I think I’d want their 2nd and 3rd. Even if we threw a late rounder back too like a 6th. 
 

Getting 29 and 40 from NO would also be a nice option.

[bowhunter]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Getting 29 and 40 from NO would also be a nice option.

I agree that any move gets us from a mid 1st to a later 1 and an extra 2nd would be ideal.

I think a draft of D.Washington, C.Mauck and J.Campbell in the first 2 rounds would be an amazing draft.  Of course we do need a LT and Mauck would give us a roster of 15  Guards and 2 starting tackles, so there is that....

[Est.1974]

He’ll even get to keep his number 
 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, method man said:

 

It's because he is likely a nickel at the next level given his size and length

 

Maybe.  He played outside, just about exclusively in college.  Not really short, not tall either 5 '11. He is light but still has 10 pounds on Forbes.

 

To me he's not one of the first tier corners.  but he's high on my list in that 2nd-3rd round range and i do think he drops there in spite of his 4.26 speed because there are so many bigger corners with longer arms who aren't as fast but still plenty fast among other reasons. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[HigSkin]

 

[Est.1974]

Damn this is a good draft to bag a dynamic RB with a mid round value pick. 

[seantaylor=god]

10 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

And he doesn’t turn 21 until October!

 

[mhd24]

32 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Damn this is a good draft to bag a dynamic RB with a mid round value pick. 

Yup.  If we don't draft Bijan at 16, I'm down with taking a RB with that comp pick.

Edited March 29, 2023 by mhd24

[Skinsinparadise]

Darnell Washington.  My take 887 on him.    6 '7, 264.    Basically has a Marvell hero physique and plays football.  A bit raw but shows his freakish physicality enough on the field where IMO he's more than just teasing about what he can do if it all comes together for him, he's IMO further along than that -- but I'll grant he has more developing to do.  He is 21 years old. 

 

He had the fastest shuttle time among all of the TEs. 9.9 RAS in total.   Biggest wingspan in the history of TEs, 2nd largest hands ever for the spot. 

 

As a blocker.  Best 2nd level blocker I've ever seen for a TE. That IMO is his top super power.  He's powerful, fast and willing. He helps spring big plays in the run game and does it with gusto and attitude. He sometimes darts down the field so fast that he overruns his block but then will readjust and and go back a foot or so and block the player.  Can overshoot his blocks in short yardage at times too but usually recovers quickly.

 

Good pass blocker, Georgia used him in line at times as an extra blocker but wiffs on a block on occasion.  The issue with him though is he blocks so much compared to the average TE I watch that he's bound to have some bad plays mixed among the good, because of the large sample size.  Sometimes he sustains his blocks well, sometimes he doesn't, not always fluid with his hands technique wise but his wingspan is so freakish (alas the TE version of Dawand Jones) that he can be sloppy with his hands and still get the job done.  Blocks with a mean streak and throws players to the ground.

 

As for his receiving, he's a work in progress especially as a route runner where it looks like mostly delayed-hot routes and crossers, stick routes.  He does find though open space well in that process for the most part especially on delayed routes. 

 

But his potential as a pass catcher IMO is evident, I think he will be better than a Y-TE like Bates who majors much more in blocking who just makes some occasional catches.   I do think he will major in blocking but my point is i think he will be much more than an occasional pass weapon.  Washington can be a body catcher at times but also has good hands who makes acrobatic catches using his wingspan and impressive catch radius when needed, made one handed catches including at the combine.

 

He shows his physicality more as a YAC guy than he does making contesting catches.   Michael Mayer for example is better at using his body, using his outside shoulder basketball style to catch the ball  in traffic than Washington does.  I think with Washington's physique he should develop a contested catch super power because his ceiling is high on that front since he has the frame and ball skills.  But as a player with a ball in his hands, he's feisty, hard to bring down.  He's more a bull dozer-break tackle YAC runner than he is elusive in open field.   

 

He sinks his hips well and gets low as a blocker and his combine numbers show he has really good agility but as a runner in open field he can look a bit stiff at times.

 

They only really used him as a receiver for one season.  His critics tend to take his full college career and sum it up that way which basically dilutes his production numbers by acting like every season he was used the same way.    His one season was last season where he was used to some extent as a receiver and the only reason why he didn't have more production is they have Bowers as the featured TE who is an uber prospect on steriods at that spot. 

 

In his one season as a seconday weapon at that spot.   He beat any college season that Kittle had as a receiver and Kittle is often billed as a dude where you got to ignore his college production and focus on this traits.   OK, cool. But Washington has plenty of traits, too. 

 

Last season...

 

A.  28 receptions for 454 yards

 

B.  16.2 YPC which is the highest in this group.   Beating other guys billed in this group for being explosive like Kincaid by about 4 YPC and Laporta by about 5 YPC

 

C. 6% drop rate which is one of the best in this class.

 

D.  7 and change average YAC which is one of the best in this class.

 

 

 

Supposed to be a good dude who works hard and wants to be great

 

https://www.on3.com/college/georgia-bulldogs/news/kirby-smart-assesses-the-growth-of-darnell-washington-from-last-year-to-now-georgia-bulldogs-tight-end/

 

“The combination of athleticism and displacement, probably none,” said Smart first evaluating who he could compare Washington to. “We’ve had a couple guys when I was at Alabama – Michael Williams – we had some really big, more blocking Ys, offensive tackle type guys. But he has a receiving skillset that’s unique, combined with that size.

“The best thing right now about Darnell is he has been working so hard. He has practiced – you see it usually in year three in guys – where you go ‘wow, that guy’s matured. That guy knows how to practice. That guy knows how to push himself.’ They sort of start trusting that if I go really hard during the week, the game will be easy. And I’ve seen more of that out of Darnell this year and you’re able to see it in the game because he doesn’t get tired, he pushes, he makes plays.”

 

 

https://www.onlineathens.com/story/sports/college/bulldogs-extra/2021/10/01/georgia-football-darnell-washington-tight-end-kirby-smart-todd-monken-jt-daniels/5955739001/

 

“Darnell has from the moment that I saw him, you can certainly see the upside of a big, athletic, tough young man,” Georgia offensive coordinator Todd Monken said before the bowl game last season. “You can just see that, what his upside can be as a raw player. And, to boot, he is an awesome kid. He is an awesome kid. Always smiling. Got a great disposition about him.”

 

 

 

https://www.ajc.com/sports/georgia-bulldogs/darnell-washington-is-an-unique-nfl-prospect/ADF4XIP3SJESLO4MALDGNINN6U/

Washington caught 45 passes for 774 yards and three touchdowns over three seasons. At 6-foot-7 and 261 pounds, Washington developed into a respectable blocker.

“I feel like I’m only scratching the surface,” Washington said. “I feel like I’m a good blocker, but I can turn into a great blocker. I’m a good athlete. I feel like I can turn into a great athlete.”

 

 

Washington plans to run in the 4.6s in the 40-yard dash. NFL teams are impressed as he has had several formal interviews.

“They see the size,” Washington said. “I’m bigger than most of the tight ends, and they’ll see the 40 (yard-dash time).”

 

When Washington arrived on campus from Las Vegas, he was a willing blocker. Over time he developed into a more efficient blocker.

“I take pride in it,” Washington said. “I embraced it at the University of Georgia. I knew I wasn’t getting 50, 40 balls because we’ve got Brock Bowers and Ladd McConkey. There is only one football. You can’t give it to everybody. I just embraced the role of blocking. It’s a mindset thing.”

 

 

His freakishness was evident even when he was a high school player.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

Zaire Barnes ILB Western Michigan is...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good,  

 

 

I like the fit for the Commanders. 

[Hooper]

My prediction is Levis and Richardson will both be available and we will wisely pass.

 

NFL GMS are a lot smarter and more risk averse than blogger boys who at this point last year had Malik Willis going in the first round (something they all never bring up).

 

Richardson has a ton of tools, but I watched almost every Florida game and would be terrified to take him in the first round.

 

Levis I just don't get at all.

 

Every year "experts" talk up QBS while almost never mentioning the hit rate is like 40 percent. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I thought I liked Wright more than most months back but I’ll say the draft media’s growing infatuation with him is getting over the top for me, next they will be talking about him as a top 5 pick 😃

 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I thought I liked Wright more than most months back but I’ll say the draft media’s growing infatuation with him is getting over the top for me, next they will be talking about him as a top 5 pick 😃

 

You know I like him too, SIP!  

[Morneblade]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I thought I liked Wright more than most months back but I’ll say the draft media’s growing infatuation with him is getting over the top for me, next they will be talking about him as a top 5 pick 😃

 

 

He's going to be really good. I hope he falls to us. He played against the best, and pretty much smoked them.

[method man]

47 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I thought I liked Wright more than most months back but I’ll say the draft media’s growing infatuation with him is getting over the top for me, next they will be talking about him as a top 5 pick 😃

 

He famously loved Haskins, his opinion holds no value for me 

[mhd24]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

He famously loved Haskins, his opinion holds no value for me 

Also HATED Jalen Ramsey.

[kingdaddy]

6 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Damn this is a good draft to bag a dynamic RB with a mid round value pick. 

Sounds like RR agrees with you based on his recent comments....as much as I love BRob/Gibson I feel like we can possibly draft a guy even better than both of them? 

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Turner, another one of my faves but i wouldn't go as ar as the #2 corner in the draft but surprised he gets so little buzz aside from some during the combine

 

 

 

Turner at 2? Wow, Simms always looking to draw a little attention to himself...

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, RWJ said:

You know I like him too, SIP!  

 

I like him but prefer Harrison and Dawand over him but he'd be next.  I think he will be a good player, but best player in the draft from Reddick is way over the top for me.    The odd thing for me about it is it seems to becoming a group think with the draft media about him, with each week he seems to be rising with them.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

He's going to be really good. I hope he falls to us. He played against the best, and pretty much smoked them.

 

I was pretty early on Wright.  I like him, I admit I am not smitten to the extent where I am totally in love with the player like the draft media have become, mainly for two reasons -- balance (he ends up on his butt and loses leverage more than I'd like and you don't see a lot of a sample of what he can do as run blocker.  But I like his potential-athleticism.  Played great against Will Anderson.

 

I just looked at PFF's take on him, they pride themselves on their views on the O line more than any other position in the draft -- heard a couple of the PFF people talk about this in interviews where its the spot they both feel the most confident about their takes and have been validated the most on as to predicting college play to the NFL.  

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

The last few pages have been dominated by two Darnell's. Who was the last prospect we discussed with that name? I don't recall any 

 

I find Darnell Washington's potential impact much more intriguing than Wright. Washington, like Mayer, could bring an immediate impact to the offense and that is what RR needs. I don't really like either at 16 though.

 

There was discussion earlier regarding Avila. I would think this would be thoughts of round 3. He is a more solid C than G. It would be an intriguing pick to then see what the do with Gates at C. Would they think of moving one to LG or would Avila be looked at as backup at C, LG, RG? It would allow a Roullier cut but would it do the same with Norwell?

Edited March 30, 2023 by DWinzit