2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

It's tough.  When I see comparison to Edge James, that's eye opening.  At some point, you don't pass on talent like that.

 

Damn, that's a good comp friend. Yeah. I'm torn, seriously and I'm not necessarily in the PFF "never take a RB in the 1st" crowd. I can see how they arrived at that conclusion, but I'm still meh about it. A strong running game is an essential part of the equation. 

[Going Commando]

Dawand Jones is an impact player in the run game.  Dude can wipe out the right side of a defensive front on his down blocks because of how big his wake is as a blocker.  Multiple defenders caught up in his traffic.  And he creates massive b gap holes when he gets the assignment to push the force man towards the sideline.  Not to mention when he gets to run and lead block those alley and boundary defenders, you're probably getting a big gain just from staying behind him.  That is a potent first down run game weapon to have in your quiver.

 

I think Dawand helps us a lot more on offense than Bijan would.  You're not getting Dawand level impact from a late rounder, but we can get Bijan level impact from a committee of Gibby/BRob/Deuce Vaughn PLUS you get huge passing game impact from having a lock down tackle on the right side.  Dawand is a presence on your right side that can bully badass edges like Parsons and Thibedaux and keep them from taking over games.

 

I'm telling you guys, if you have Deuce Deuce running behind Dawand on the right side on long yardage downs like first and second/third and long and you're going to get some big plays.  Guys are already intimidated by trying to tackle Deuce in space, if he's running behind a mammoth like Dawand too?  That's a hard day.

[Warhead36]

Since we signed Wylie Im assuming if we draft a T itll be someone who can play on the left.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Since we signed Wylie Im assuming if we draft a T itll be someone who can play on the left.

WH36, Peter Skoronski, Anton Harrison, Darnell Wright, Matthew Bergeron and Tyler Steen are the OTs that I looked up that have started at both LT and RT in college.  Doesn't mean they can try and make the transition but it's what I found out while researching. 

Edited March 26, 2023 by RWJ

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Damn, that's a good comp friend. Yeah. I'm torn, seriously and I'm not necessarily in the PFF "never take a RB in the 1st" crowd. I can see how they arrived at that conclusion, but I'm still meh about it. A strong running game is an essential part of the equation. 

The last RB this team took in the first round was in the 1960s, Ray McDonald.  Of our top 10 career rushers, only John Riggins was a first rounder.  This list includes an 10th rounder, two 8s, a 6 and a 5. 

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Since we signed Wylie Im assuming if we draft a T itll be someone who can play on the left.

The three of our top 4 LTs were top 12 (Lachey was a 12, Samuels was a 3 and Williams was a 4). Our only great LT that was not a top pick was Jacoby and great near HOF-level LTs (Jacoby should be) found off the street or as low round guys are nearly as much a unicorn as finding the next Tom Brady,

[philibusters]

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Since we signed Wylie Im assuming if we draft a T itll be someone who can play on the left.

 

I think the best O-Line we can put out this  year is going to have Leno at LT.

 

In terms of Wylie he can play RT, LG, or RG.  PFF tracks his snaps at each position of the course of his career they are:

 

1.  RT:  1708

2.  RG:  1698

3.  LG     574

4.  TE    11

[Rex Tomb]

1 minute ago, philibusters said:

TE    11

[Skinsinparadise]

Keion White, DE Georgia Tech, 6 '5, 286.  34 inch arms.  Clearly has the size to play inside, too.  2nd-3rd round range intriguing.  I like him a lot.

 

For a dude that tall and with that much weight his bend and ability to sink his hips and get low is really impressive.  Doesn't shock me at all that he had elite numbers in the vertical and broad jump.

 

Started his career as a TE, so still learning the position but is already 24

 

Has some but doesn't seem to have a ton of moves in his arsenal, bull rushes, swim move, spin move

 

Physical player against the run.  I like how he goes low both as to sacking the QB and stopping the run.   Very sound tackler.  And he plays with a lot of hustle -- chases playes down the field, etc.

 

They moved him from right to left quite a bit in the two games I watched.   Georgia Tech seemed to like to keep other teams guessing as for where he was lining up. 

 

Overshoots some where he gets to wide on some pass rushes (ala Montez Sweat) leaving a gap for the running back or the QB to take off. 

 

They sometimes move him inside, he had one great play on that count where he just blew up two blockers and then destroyed the QB.  I have watched some pass rushers this year, not a ton yet but I'll get there -- that play might be the best i've seen among the ones i watched so far. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keion White, DE Georgia Tech, 6 '5, 286.  34 inch arms.  Clearly has the size to play inside, too.  2nd-3rd round range intriguing.  I like him a lot.

 

For a dude that tall and with that much weight his bend and ability to sink his hips and get low is really impressive.  Doesn't shock me at all that he had elite numbers in the vertical and broad jump.

 

Started his career as a TE, so still learning the position but is already 24

 

Has some but doesn't seem to have a ton of moves in his arsenal, bull rushes, swim move, spin move

 

Physical player against the run.  I like how he goes low both as to sacking the QB and stopping the run.   Very sound tackler.  And he plays with a lot of hustle -- chases playes down the field, etc.

 

They moved him from right to left quite a bit in the two games I watched.   Georgia Tech seemed to like to keep other teams guessing as for where he was lining up. 

 

Overshoots some where he gets to wide on some pass rushes (ala Montez Sweat) leaving a gap for the running back or the QB to take off. 

 

They sometimes move him inside, he had one great play on that count where he just blew up two blockers and then destroyed the QB.  I have watched some pass rushers this year, not a ton yet but I'll get there -- that play might be the best i've seen among the ones i watched so far. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think he lasts by our 2nd round pick.  

18 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

He had like 2-3 good years and crashed. That's awful RoI from a top 5 pick.

 

The three picks right after him were: Jalen Ramsey, Ronnie Stanley, and Deforest Buckner. All three still playing at an elite level and at much more premium positions. 

Stanley has been injured consistently.  He's way overpaid for his availability.  The other two players were better values for sure. However, that doesn't discount the impact Zeke had.  Frankly, if they had no Zeke, I doubt Dak is as successful as he's been.  Zeke allowed a young QB to grow into his position.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Dawand Jones is an impact player in the run game.  Dude can wipe out the right side of a defensive front on his down blocks because of how big his wake is as a blocker.  Multiple defenders caught up in his traffic.  And he creates massive b gap holes when he gets the assignment to push the force man towards the sideline.  Not to mention when he gets to run and lead block those alley and boundary defenders, you're probably getting a big gain just from staying behind him.  That is a potent first down run game weapon to have in your quiver.

 

 

A point on Dawand, the asisstant O line coach who I believe currently is the defacto head O line coach, coached the Senior Bowl O lineman. 

 

Dawnd was one of the players in his squad.  And he commented to the WP it helped him a lot to coach these guys and get a sense of their play.  Add that along with they've now met with him or about to 4 times --  Senior Bowl, Combine, Top 30 visit, Pro Day -- shows clear indication of interest. 

29 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I don't think he lasts by our 2nd round pick.  

 

 

I've seen him in some mocks there, some where he isn't.  Not sure. 

[RWJ]

48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A point on Dawand, the asisstant O line coach who I believe currently is the defacto head O line coach, coached the Senior Bowl O lineman. 

 

Dawnd was one of the players in his squad.  And he commented to the WP it helped him a lot to coach these guys and get a sense of their play.  Add that along with they've now met with him or about to 4 times --  Senior Bowl, Combine, Top 30 visit, Pro Day -- shows clear indication of interest. 

Yes, agreed with him being the defacto OL coach but they should just announce it already.  I read an article where they talked about Wharton was up close and personal with a lot of the OL players.  Do you think Dawond could play OG and then be moved to OT in time?  Let's say, we draft Dawond in the 1st, could he play Left OG and let's say they came back in the 3rd and drafted Freeland to play behind Leno.  Thoughts on if that could work with an EB offense.  You grab best CB in the 2nd.    

Edited March 26, 2023 by RWJ

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

The last RB this team took in the first round was in the 1960s, Ray McDonald.  Of our top 10 career rushers, only John Riggins was a first rounder.  This list includes an 10th rounder, two 8s, a 6 and a 5. 

 

Wow. Holy crap. Well, I won't be holding my breath this time around either

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Yes, agreed with him being the defacto OL coach but they should just announce it already.  I read an article where they talked about Wharton was up close and personal with a lot of the OL players.  Do you think Dawond could play OG and then be moved to OT in time?  Let's say, we draft Dawond in the 1st, could he play Left OG and let's say they came back in the 3rd and drafted Freeland to play behind Leno.  Thoughts on if that could work with an EB offense.  You grab best CB in the 2nd.    

 

I'd play him RT, not guard, with his insane wingspan he's suited to tackle.   If they drafted him, I'd guess if they went with another O lineman or two, they'd more likely go interior or sort of a LT who is interchangeable at guard like Bergeron.  

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd play him RT, not guard, with his insane wingspan he's suited to tackle.   If they drafted him, I'd guess if they went with another O lineman or two, they'd more likely go interior or sort of a LT who is interchangeable at guard like Bergeron.  

I know you play Dawond at RT but what happens with Wylie.  We signed him to play RT.  

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I know you play Dawond at RT but what happens with Wylie.  We signed him to play RT.  

 

As we talked about on this thread, move him to LG.  I liked the Wylie signing but I am not willing to have him hold the O line hostage where I feel like we got to accomodate him at a specific spot.

 

IMO there is not enough talent on the O line to box out BPA at that spot in the draft. 

 

 

[mhd24]

I have a feeling New England might take Dawaand.  They love tackles with long arms.  Think of the success they have had with Trent Brown.  

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

IMO there is not enough talent on the O line to box out BPA at that spot in the draft. 

I agree, SIP. Let's say EB holds Wylie at RT, Cosmi at RG and Gates at OC.  What do you do at LG?  We can definitely do much better than Norwell and I don't think Paul is ready yet.  Maybe they think he is.  Leno plays LT this year, I am guessing.   

[Skinsinparadise]

Agree with the point below, except I doubt he's drafted on day 2.  i think he goes day 3.   He's got almost no buzz.  but the dude has great hands, good YAC guy and is a good blocker, too. 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I agree, SIP. Let's say EB holds Wylie at RT, Cosmi at RG and Gates at OC.  What do you do at LG?  We can definitely do much better than Norwell and I don't think Paul is ready yet.  Maybe they think he is.  Leno plays LT this year, I am guessing.   

 

If they are fixated at LG, I don't really have a fixed answer. 

 

Bergeron and Harrison, LT's who can likely play LG for now?

 

I think Tippman can play LG or center.    Avila LG or center. 

 

Mauch is interesting because he's basically so similar to Cosmi where you'd have two guards who can make 2nd level blocks and people move.  

 

I think Steen and Daniels who played LT are more likely natural guards.

 

Lots of options.   I am not really sweating it. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If they are fixated at LG, I don't really have a fixed answer. 

 

Bergeron and Harrison, LT's who can likely play LG for now?

 

I think Tippman can play LG or center.    Avila LG or center. 

 

Mauch is interesting because he's basically so similar to Cosmi where you'd have two guards who can make 2nd level blocks and people move.  

 

I think Steen and Daniels who played LT are more likely natural guards.

 

Lots of options.   I am not really sweating it. 

If Skoronski falls to 16, he could play LG while eventually transitioning to tackle (if his arms allow it to be).  Then again, Keim said that the staff feels that LT, RG, and C are the three most important positions on the OL for them.  Ron was tauting Paul last year.  Maybe they want to see how an off-season of conditioning changes his body.

[RWJ]

55 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

If Skoronski falls to 16, he could play LG while eventually transitioning to tackle (if his arms allow it to be).  Then again, Keim said that the staff feels that LT, RG, and C are the three most important positions on the OL for them.  Ron was tauting Paul last year.  Maybe they want to see how an off-season of conditioning changes his body.

Are you sure it was RG or was it LG, mhd24?

[mhd24]

13 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Are you sure it was RG or was it LG, mhd24?

Definitely RG.

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Definitely RG.

I've heard and read that Cosmi will be used as our starting RG this season with recently signed and former KC Chief, Wylie playing RT.  

[RWJ]

EB seems to envision Wylie as our starting RT per the articles but as we know he can play multiple positions in a pinch:  Inside Andrew Wylie's transition to offensive tackle (commanders.com)

 

From the article: 

"The transition to tackle started all the way back in 2020, when the Chiefs ran out of tackles because of injury to Mitchell Schwartz and Mike Remmers. The Chiefs decided to bump Wylie out to the position, and he ended up staying at the position all the way through the team's playoff run. He was put in the same position the following season, when Lucas Niang was sidelined with a knee injury, and ended up starting seven games in 2021.

 

Wylie earned the role as the starting right tackle outright in 2022 and kept it for the entire season. He feels much more comfortable at the position now than he did three years ago, and he can credit some of that to learning from Schwartz, who received positive grades from Pro Football Focus in run- and pass-blocking for his entire nine-year career.

"He's one of the most talented guys I've seen play at the position," Wylie said. "I relied a lot on his coaching, his friendship."

 

Commanders OL Nick Gates Expects To Play Center (profootballrumors.com)

 

From the article:

"In related news, Washington plans to slide Samuel Cosmi to right guard, as John Keim of ESPN.com writes. Cosmi, a 2021 second-round pick, has taken most of his pro snaps at right tackle and has played reasonably well there. However, he has dealt with injury issues in each of his first two seasons in the league, and the Commanders recently signed Andrew Wylie to man the RT post.

 

Per Keim, the club is likely to add more O-line reinforcements in this year’s draft.

 

 

This tells me that the OC, RG and RT is put into place and now LG becomes the No. 1 position of concern.  As mentioned in previous post Norwell is here for another year and he can man the position but we can do better at LG.  Does Norwell stay on as a reserve or starter or is he cut as he carries a cap hit in 2023 of over 5 Mill and change if he meets all of his incentives: Andrew Norwell Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac.  

 

Many questions to be answered via the upcoming draft.  I would think Leno stays as our starting LT but I could see us easily drafting a LT that hopefully has LG experience too or drafting a LT and LG.