2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

What list did I put out?  I responded to a post where someone mentioned some specific TEs and I responded to that and mentioned some less heralded names that I like, too.  As far as a list goes I said a million times on this thread he's my #2 TE and might be my #1, i waver back and forth.

 

I'd put a wager that i've put more propaganda for Darnell Washington and by a good margin than anyone here on this thread and have been at it for months.   Look at my posts around the combine in particular the thread was basically consumed by it being a love letter for me for Washington and I debated some on it.

 

Just a whopping hour ago, i said I liked Washington.  but yeah I haven't done a full gush fest in recent days, sorry. 

 

 

 

4th place isn't bad, SIP. Just embrace it and move on. Be humble.

[Going Commando]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just a whopping hour ago, i said I liked Washington.  but yeah I haven't done a full gush fest in recent days, sorry. 

 

It's time for you to fire one off.  I listen to the sports radio in Atlanta and they are really dialed in to the Georgia program and hear things about their players, and they dropped a nugget about Darnell on the morning show today.  They'd heard that two teams in particular are really digging in to him hard, one was New Orleans at 29, and the other was us at 16.

 

I think we've kind of kept our interest in Darnell as covert as we can, and that he's actually one of the front runner targets for us.  I think the Wylie signing is something they wanted to get done in order to target Darnell, and now that they did, they might pass on OT this draft class.

 

Also thought it was interesting that the radio guys were so scared of Darnell going to New Orleans because they didn't want to have to face him twice a year with Derek Carr throwing him the ball.  They are nervous about the fact that New Orleans has a late first and an early second and presumably has two shots at Darnell in his draft range.  Seems like we'd be on the early end of picking him at 16, but I'd note we have not been afraid of making some reaches in the first in order to make sure we get our guy, and that Jamin and Jahan seemed to have worked out for us and validated the strategy.

 

I just have a feeling Darnell is going to be our pick in the first, and I think we are hoping that the mock drafters are right about Darnell Wright, Dawand Jones, and Anton Harrison and that they are going to slide down the board in the first/early second.  If they don't, then we pivot to Guard/DB focus on day 2.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

4th place isn't bad, SIP. Just embrace it and move on. Be humble.

 

lol, they can put me in 4th place, I don't care.      But I am not going to 4th place because I am not high on Darnell Washington.  It would be like hitting the Pope for not being Catholic enough. 

 

I've pushed him so much that I know his stats by heart.  Reminds me of how familar I got with Terry McLaurin's stats while pushing him before that draft that I can still recite his college stats without looking them up. 

[bowhunter]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I wasn't already top 3?

 

Keep your top three ranking you caveman!

@Jumbo was at #1 and 3, (#3 based upon his posting content and #1 bc he has a ban hammer) and SIP WAS at #2 before he went a full 6 hours without loving on Washington. So you have now replaced him at #2. I'll try to get the rankings posted at the top with a sticky. Just below TKs rambling about rules and stuff.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

It's time for you to fire one off.  I listen to the sports radio in Atlanta and they are really dialed in to the Georgia program and hear things about their players, and they dropped a nugget about Darnell on the morning show today.  They'd heard that two teams in particular are really digging in to him hard, one was New Orleans at 29, and the other was us at 16.

 

 

I'll do it shortly.  That's interesting to me because when I think about how Rivera describes what he wants from this team -- and then couple that with Bieinemy's takes.  They want some nasty in the offense.  And I've been saying on this thread for quite some time that the two players that really jump at me on that front are Darnell Washington and Cody Mauch.

 

Dawand Jones is nasty, too.  Further down the draft, Willis. 

 

 But if you recall Bieineimy flat out told Terry in his intro press conference -- about wanting to bring more nasty.  I got to wrap something up but I'll launch one of my Washington propaganda posts shortly. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll do it shortly.  That's interesting to me because when I think about how Rivera describes what he wants from this team -- and then couple that with Bieinemy's takes.  They want some nasty in the offense.  And I've been saying on this thread for quite some time that the two players that really jump at me on that front are Darnell Washington and Cody Mauch.

 

Dawnad Jones is nasty, too.   But if you recall Bieineimy flat out told Terry in his intro press conference -- about wanting to bring more nasty.  I got to wrap something up but I'll launch one of my Washington propaganda posts shortly. 

 

Dawand is a different nasty. Washington and Mauch bring a brand of aggressive, no non sense destruction. They are my favorite ass-kickers in the draft.

 

I like Double A for that, too. 

[Going Commando]

@mhd24 Another draft tidbit I got from the local Atlanta radio is they thought that signing Calais Campbell might be a precursor to picking Jalen Carter if he is there at 8.  Their thinking was that they might have the leaders/mentors on the DL now to handle Jalen and steer him on the right path between Campbell and Grady Jarrett.

 

This was new to me because I hadn't heard much interest in Jalen from the Atlanta guys before now.  Obviously they like him as a player and the thought throughout the season was no way they'd be in position to draft him because they assumed he was going top two.  But I got the sense they were scared off by the risk he carries after all Hell broke loose with him at the combine.

 

I think it's always easy to sell a Georgia kid to that fanbase, so I think the team could draft him and their fans would be super tolerant about it.  But it's a weird situation where I think a lot of people would be nervous about him staying in the Atlanta metro area and not being able to change his ways.

 

Regardless, I think he's in play for them.  Probably more so than Bijan is to be honest, and I think would handicap him as the #2 option behind Tyree Wilson.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's what brought it back ti me because now I recall thinking hey that might take Joey Porter off the table,

Agreed, I thought similar.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Dawand is a different nasty. Washington and Mauch bring a brand of aggressive, no non sense destruction. They are my favorite ass-kickers in the draft.

 

I like Double A for that, too. 

 

Dawand uses his size to steam roll guys at times in the run game.  

 

While Washington IMO isn't as good of a blocker as Mayer, not as polished and consistent but I still think he's one of the most unique TE blockers I've ever seen especially in the run game where he hits that 2nd level with such speed and ferocity and levels guys.   He's more of a work in progress as a pass blocker but has plenty of moments on that front including dealing with Will Anderson one on one. 

 

Mauch is nasty, also 2nd level guy, is a people mover and plays with attitude.   There are a bunch of O lineman I like in this draft but if I am focused on nasty he's the one that stands out.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Dawand is a different nasty. Washington and Mauch bring a brand of aggressive, no non sense destruction. They are my favorite ass-kickers in the draft.

 

I like Double A for that, too. 

 

Yeah Dawand is non-chalant.  He's going to pull you down and then fall on you, but it's a casual affair to him to dominate the mortals that line up in front of him.  If he went as hard as Cody Mauch does, he would probably kill someone.

 

Dawand kind of has the Shaq mindset of confidence bedrocked in the fact that the game is just easier for him at his size than it is for regular players.

[KDawg]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Dawand uses his size to steam roll guys at times in the run game.  

 

While Washington IMO isn't as good of a blocker as Mayer, not as polished and consistent but I still think he's one of the most unique TE blockers I've ever seen especially in the run game where he hits that 2nd level with such speed and ferocity and levels guys.  He's more of a work in progress as a pass blocker but has plenty of moments on that front. 

 

Mauch is nasty, also 2nd level guy, is a people mover and plays with attitude.   There are a bunch of O lineman I like in this draft but if I am focused on nasty he's the one that stands out.

Mauch is my favorite OL in this draft. Not necessarily the best OL, though he's not far. But the way he plays is a way that I value. 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Mauch is my favorite OL in this draft. Not necessarily the best OL, though he's not far. But the way he plays is a way that I value. 

 

I don't know if I have a favorite, I haven't thought about that yet.  But I've been high on him since the first time I watched him, weeks before the Senior Bowl.  I recall saying I didn't want to like him because I hate image driven story lines -- but I couldn't help liking him.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Yeah Dawand is non-chalant.  He's going to pull you down and then fall on you, but it's a casual affair to him to dominate the mortals that line up in front of him.  If he went as hard as Cody Mauch does, he would probably kill someone.

 

 

Agree, his nasty is a different form, its his size which ends up hurting people but that happens organically versus being about his attitude.  Though I heard that Dawand off the field has some swag.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Everyone remembers the triplets from Dallas; Aikman, Irvin, Emmit

How bout Howell, Terry Mac, Bijan? 

Think about it, you get a stud running back who is a true game changer paired with Bienemy and some great WR's and these aren't your same Redskins/Commanders.

We become legit contenders in the NFC.

 

I love Bijan Robinson. Have from the jump. I'm not against it. There's an excellent chance Bijan Robinson is there for us and that will present a most interesting scenario for the Commanders. I can't wait until this plays out.

[Est.1974]

 

[Chump Bailey]

ES GM Mock Drafts start this Friday whomever is perusing this thread and interested. Let @COWBOY-KILLA- know if you want to partake. 

[mhd24]

38 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

@mhd24 Another draft tidbit I got from the local Atlanta radio is they thought that signing Calais Campbell might be a precursor to picking Jalen Carter if he is there at 8.  Their thinking was that they might have the leaders/mentors on the DL now to handle Jalen and steer him on the right path between Campbell and Grady Jarrett.

 

This was new to me because I hadn't heard much interest in Jalen from the Atlanta guys before now.  Obviously they like him as a player and the thought throughout the season was no way they'd be in position to draft him because they assumed he was going top two.  But I got the sense they were scared off by the risk he carries after all Hell broke loose with him at the combine.

 

I think it's always easy to sell a Georgia kid to that fanbase, so I think the team could draft him and their fans would be super tolerant about it.  But it's a weird situation where I think a lot of people would be nervous about him staying in the Atlanta metro area and not being able to change his ways.

 

Regardless, I think he's in play for them.  Probably more so than Bijan is to be honest, and I think would handicap him as the #2 option behind Tyree Wilson.

 

Interesting.  Yeah, Carter's talent warrants the pick.  The question is if Atlanta is the right situation for him geographically.  I figure Carter's floor is 12 to Houston.  They won't pass on him if he's on the board.

 

 

If we are targeting Darnell Washington, better to try and trade down to a team that wants WR1 or CB3 (Porter) and pick him then.  I could see the appeal of Washington for sure.

 

But, I keep going back to Keim who has repeatedly stated that the team likes the young TEs on the roster.  Obviously Washington is completely different than everyone else though.  

 

I just think Dawaand isn't going to be there at 16 for some reason.  I figure Paris Johnson is gone at 9 to Chicago, and Tennessee (assuming Levis isn't on the board), takes either Wright or Dawaand.  New England at 14 fits Dawaand perfectly considering the success they have had with Trent Brown.  They also prefer tackles with super long arms.

Edited March 29, 2023 by mhd24

[method man]

Not would I want to do but taking Skoronski at #16 to be a guard is justifiable. The top guards these days are at a $15Mish AAV. If they feel strongly that Skoronski is a top 10 guard year 1, that is decent value capture

 

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, method man said:

Not would I want to do but taking Skoronski at #16 to be a guard is justifiable. The top guards these days are at a $15Mish AAV. If they feel strongly that Skoronski is a top 10 guard year 1, that is decent value capture

 

 

I'm starting to think he's going to be there at 16.  I can only see NE taking him in the top 14.  Maybe Philly at 10.  Otherwise, how can any other team see him at tackle with those arms.  One concern with Skoronski is that he's already had one torn ACL.

[Going Commando]

54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

While Washington IMO isn't as good of a blocker as Mayer, not as polished and consistent but I still think he's one of the most unique TE blockers I've ever seen especially in the run game where he hits that 2nd level with such speed and ferocity and levels guys.   He's more of a work in progress as a pass blocker but has plenty of moments on that front including dealing with Will Anderson one on one. 

 

Darnell is technically raw as a blocker, which kind of surprised me a little bit and negatively colored my view when I watched his cut ups.  But I think I'm feeling more open to him now.  No college tight end is ever that consistent and masterful of a blocker because they would probably be playing on the OL if they were.  They are going to miss blocks and get shucked, the goal is more to slow things down for DLs and then get out on those safeties and linebackers and move them in lead blocking type scenarios, which Darnell does at a high level.

 

I don't think he's as savvy and aware of a blocker as Mayer is, who just seems to have a natural feel for where everyone is in the area.  But he's more athletic.  His potential as a blocker does seem unique, once he gains more mastery and learns to let his technique do the heavy lifting so that he doesn't have to keep athleting every situation out there.

 

I have mixed feelings about drafting him at 16.  On the one hand, making him the first tight end off the board with two potential Pro-Bowl guys in Kincaid and Mayer sitting there behind him makes me really nervous.  We would never feel good about picking OJ Howard or Darren Fells if the Cowboys get Zach Ertz and someone else gets the next Jason Witten in the 20s.  But two things:

 

1 - I do want Darnell on this team.  Am I going to haggle about the value of him at 16 if we get someone like Dawand Jones, Cody Mauch, or O'Cyrus Torrence, in the second and someone like Clark Phillips or maybe even Julius Brents in the third?  Hell no.

 

Or another way to play it is something like Washington, Ringo/Brents/Forbes, then Avila in the third.

 

2 - I can see a path where Darnell is the right pick for us even though I think Kincaid and Mayer are better than him.  I see a situation where they end up getting better stats than him, and get the Pro-Bowl nods, but we win with Darnell.  It'd look like a reach, and maybe it'd be easier to just go Mayer or Kincaid.  But I think Darnell would be one of the identtity-defining guys, like BRob and Terry, who doesn't really get the accolades outside of the building, but makes the culture better inside of it.

 

My absolute favorite draft scenario is one where we get both Darnell and Dawand Jones.  I was thinking Dawand at 16 and Darnell somewhere in the second, but if the more plausible play is to pick Darnell at 16 then move back up from 47 for Dawand, then I'm all for that.  After hearing that radio segment where the Saints have been targeting him at 29, I think that constitutes Darnell's floor.  Dawand might still be there heading into day two.

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Darnell is technically raw as a blocker, which kind of surprised me a little bit and negatively colored my view when I watched his cut ups.  But I think I'm feeling more open to him now.  No college tight end is ever that consistent and masterful of a blocker because they would probably be playing on the OL if they were.  They are going to miss blocks and get shucked, the goal is more to slow things down for DLs and then get out on those safeties and linebackers and move them in lead blocking type scenarios, which Darnell does at a high level.

 

I don't think he's as savvy and aware of a blocker as Mayer is, who just seems to have a natural feel for where everyone is in the area.  But he's more athletic.  His potential as a blocker does seem unique, once he gains more mastery and learns to let his technique do the heavy lifting so that he doesn't have to keep athleting every situation out there.

 

I have mixed feelings about drafting him at 16.  On the one hand, making him the first tight end off the board with two potential Pro-Bowl guys in Kincaid and Mayer sitting there behind him makes me really nervous.  We would never feel good about picking OJ Howard or Darren Fells if the Cowboys get Zach Ertz and someone else gets the next Jason Witten in the 20s.  But two things:

 

1 - I do want Darnell on this team.  Am I going to haggle about the value of him at 16 if we get someone like Dawand Jones, Cody Mauch, or O'Cyrus Torrence, in the second and someone like Clark Phillips or maybe even Julius Brents in the third?  Hell no.

 

Or another way to play it is something like Washington, Ringo/Brents/Forbes, then Avila in the third.

 

2 - I can see a path where Darnell is the right pick for us even though I think Kincaid and Mayer are better than him.  I see a situation where they end up getting better stats than him, and get the Pro-Bowl nods, but we win with Darnell.  It'd look like a reach, and maybe it'd be easier to just go Mayer or Kincaid.  But I think Darnell would be one of the identtity-defining guys, like BRob and Terry, who doesn't really get the accolades outside of the building, but makes the culture better inside of it.

 

My absolute favorite draft scenario is one where we get both Darnell and Dawand Jones.  I was thinking Dawand at 16 and Darnell somewhere in the second, but if the more plausible play is to pick Darnell at 16 then move back up from 47 for Dawand, then I'm all for that.  After hearing that radio segment where the Saints have been targeting him at 29, I think that constitutes Darnell's floor.  Dawand might still be there heading into day two.

Just don't see it Going Commando.  Teams aren't going to pass on those long arms.  With OL getting PAID, getting cheap contributors is paramount.  I think Dawaand's ceiling is Tennessee at 11.  Pittsburgh has been talking to him a lot this off-season too.

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Just don't see it Going Commando.  Teams aren't going to pass on those long arms.  With OL getting PAID, getting cheap contributors is paramount.  I think Dawaand's ceiling is Tennessee at 11.  Pittsburgh has been talking to him a lot this off-season too.

 

My gut says you're right.  But I think conditioning issues are that one big potential red flag that will hang over Dawand his whole career, and I could see it hurting his draft stock.

 

But I suspect Pittsburgh is weighing Dawand vs Joey Porter, and I could see them going with Dawand over him if both are on the board.  They're going to make a run with Pickett and Pickens and Najee.  That offense is about to take off.

 

If I were the GM, Dawand would be my pick at 16.  But the mock drafters are low on Dawand and they might be right.  I thought Cosmi was going to be a first round pick and we got him in the second.  I don't think he will, but it wouldn't shock me if Dawand drops.

 

Would you guys trade back from 16 to 31 with Kansas City for their second rounder (63) and one of their fourths?

 

The Chiefs make the deal to move up for someone like JSN/Quentin Johnston or an OT like Anton Harrison/Dawand Jones.

 

That would give us 31, 47, 63, 97, 118, and probably 122 for our first four rounds.  Does that feel worth it? 

 

What if you then use some ammo to go back up for someone like Darnell Washington in the late 20s to get in front of New Orleans at 29?

[mhd24]

20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

My gut says you're right.  But I think conditioning issues are that one big potential red flag that will hang over Dawand his whole career, and I could see it hurting his draft stock.

 

But I suspect Pittsburgh is weighing Dawand vs Joey Porter, and I could see them going with Dawand over him if both are on the board.  They're going to make a run with Pickett and Pickens and Najee.  That offense is about to take off.

 

If I were the GM, Dawand would be my pick at 16.  But the mock drafters are low on Dawand and they might be right.  I thought Cosmi was going to be a first round pick and we got him in the second.  I don't think he will, but it wouldn't shock me if Dawand drops.

 

Would you guys trade back from 16 to 31 with Kansas City for their second rounder (63) and one of their fourths?

 

The Chiefs make the deal to move up for someone like JSN/Quentin Johnston or an OT like Anton Harrison/Dawand Jones.

 

That would give us 31, 47, 63, 97, 118, and probably 122 for our first four rounds.  Does that feel worth it? 

 

What if you then use some ammo to go back up for someone like Darnell Washington in the late 20s to get in front of New Orleans at 29?

If Bijan is off the board at 16, I'll probably do that deal.  I'm not in love with any of the other players at our range.  Heck, Mayer might be there at 31.  Or, we could take Torrence at 31 to be the LG.  Maybe Branch slips that far (although I see Philly nabbing him at 30 if he's on the board).

 

JMS or Tippman would be solid picks at 31 too.  

Edited March 29, 2023 by mhd24

[Skinsinparadise]

I recall they met him in some capacity

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

All in favour of bringing another K in for a look.

[Skinsinparadise]

One of my favs. I'd be cool with the late third for him.   6 '5, 325 yet great athlete.  Left guard, plug and play.