2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Warhead36]

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Zeke wasn't a bad pick.  He carried that offense and was an elite player.  

He had like 2-3 good years and crashed. That's awful RoI from a top 5 pick.

 

The three picks right after him were: Jalen Ramsey, Ronnie Stanley, and Deforest Buckner. All three still playing at an elite level and at much more premium positions. 

[DWinzit]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am really hoping the Commanders end out with one of these guys. This is about as solid a C group as I can recall in recent memory and it is without a single stud. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

Incredibly poor performance from the Raiders. That HAS to be historically poor. Mayock will never work in the league again obviously, but I have to assume that as the guy with final say and a $100M contract, Gruden probably had a huge hand in that. 

 

Those numbers are suspect.  You'd get way more than 12,000 snaps per season just from your starters and there is no way the Raiders fielded a starting line up almost entirely made of free agents every year for the last five years.

[Going Commando]

Granting that Sharp's numbers may be off, Mayock and Gruden were definitely particularly terrible.  I don't think any other team more consistently picked players who I couldn't stand (and did so reaching by multiple rounds) than them.  For every Maxx Crosby stroke of brilliance there were five Alex Leatherwoods and Bryan Edwards and Damon Arnettes.  Scrubs with **** film that couldn't play at all, or dudes who were such easy to see coming turds like Lynn Bowden that only a fool could pick them early.  They had a hard-on for Clemson try-hards in particular.  Tanner Muse in the third round, lol.  Not even Dabo Swinney would have picked him there.  Though to be fair, Hunter Renfrow is a decent player.

 

Stiff ass Alex Leatherwood, who couldn't even bend his knees, won the Outland Trophy because he played for Alabama, then proceeded to get his ass beaten all up and down the field in the Senior Bowl is the thing I remember the most about him.  Gruden loves college players who win awards.  On his second team in his second season = the Mike Mayock special.  I used to think Mayock was really good at the draft, but God.  I don't really know anything, but I know I wouldn't have done worse than him.  Could have just chalk-drafted BPA from Mel Kiper's board and done better than him.

[method man]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

Granting that Sharp's numbers may be off, Mayock and Gruden were definitely particularly terrible.  I don't think any other team more consistently picked players who I couldn't stand (and did so reaching by multiple rounds) than them.  For every Maxx Crosby stroke of brilliance there were five Alex Leatherwoods and Bryan Edwards and Damon Arnettes.  Scrubs with **** film that couldn't play at all, or dudes who were such easy to see coming turds like Lynn Bowden that only a fool could pick them early.  They had a hard-on for Clemson try-hards in particular.  Tanner Muse in the third round, lol.  Not even Dabo Swinney would have picked him there.  Though to be fair, Hunter Renfrow is a decent player.

 

Stiff ass Alex Leatherwood, who couldn't even bend his knees, won the Outland Trophy because he played for Alabama, then proceeded to get his ass beaten all up and down the field in the Senior Bowl is the thing I remember the most about him.  Gruden loves college players who win awards.  On his second team in his second season = the Mike Mayock special.  I used to think Mayock was really good at the draft, but God.  I don't really know anything, but I know I wouldn't have done worse than him.  Could have just chalk-drafted BPA from Mel Kiper's board and done better than him.

I think it’s been reported that Gruden ran the show Day 1 and Day 2 and let Mayock do his thing in Day 3, which makes sense given that’s where they ended up w Crosby and Renfrow

[Chump Bailey]

4 hours ago, method man said:

I think it’s been reported that Gruden ran the show Day 1 and Day 2 and let Mayock do his thing in Day 3, which makes sense given that’s where they ended up w Crosby and Renfrow

 

Really? I've always liked Mayock but I did give him a hard time over those selections. I also wonder why he has not returned to the NFL Network. 

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Really? I've always liked Mayock but I did give him a hard time over those selections. I also wonder why he has not returned to the NFL Network. 

Gruden ran that show. Absolutely. And it has been noted a few times. Mayock probably hasn’t returned because the NFLN has their guys and he made a lot of money with the Raiders.

[Chump Bailey]

Yet another strong CB prospect that could be had for value: Kaleb Hayes, BYU. I like this guy. If we don't come out of this draft with at least one solid CB prospect, I'd be stunned. 

 

 

Kaleb Hayes with a 4.31 in the 40-yard dash! 🔥🔥🔥#BYUFOOTBALL | #GoCougspic.twitter.com/ppa218EpLN

— BYU Sports Nation (@BYUSportsNation) March 24, 2023

 

Kaleb also notched a '40 inch vert.

Edited March 26, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[Rolo Tomasie]

On the subject of Bijan to Philly or Dallas, I think he looks like a great player but don't think the Commanders should worry too much about that. You can't approach the draft playing defense. You have to focus on improving your team the most you possibly can, and if that means trading in the division, do it. Dallas and Philly are probably going to add a great prospect in the draft anyway. Dallas has been great at drafting (hard as it is to say that) and Philly great at player/asset acquisition overall.

 

Zeke Elliott was scary coming out of the draft. He was so fast, low and powerful. So was Saquon. But all of them are only one player and this sport is about having the best team. And if star players either get hurt (Saquon) or don't really take care of themselves (Zeke, imo) it can actually cripple a franchise's season. So you let them take who they want and you worry only about making your team as strong as possible.

 

If there is one specific thing in one of our division opponents that awed me this past season, it was probably how Philly could absolutely convert every single short yardage 3rd or 4th down at will. That's an incredible advantage on offense. Their o-line was that dominant, and because they had a strong and athletic QB, the RB was only a small piece of that. It was mostly incredible power at the tackle and guard positions and an amazingly athletic center who consistently gets lower than anyone else. That's why I hesitate about a guy like Tippmann playing C.

 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Good post @Rolo Tomasie

 

 

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, method man said:

I think it’s been reported that Gruden ran the show Day 1 and Day 2 and let Mayock do his thing in Day 3, which makes sense given that’s where they ended up w Crosby and Renfrow

 

That would get me to quit if I were a GM.  I would not want my name put on those drafts.  Three years where pretty much the only players they got out of the first three rounds were Jacobs and Moehrig, they had to trade Khalil Mack to get a RB, and anyone in the world who is a moderate football fan can pick a star RB in the first round.

 

Good example of why coaches shouldn't run drafts.  Thankfully Ron doesn't seem to have the ego that Chucky does, and is more collaborative in his approach.  But it's stuff like that which makes me really nervous about the head coach centric organization structure.

[mhd24]

I'm thinking if Bijan gets past Philly, he's going to make it to 16.  I think the top 10 (in some order) will be:

4 QBs (Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson)

2 Edges (Anderson, Wilson)

1 DT (Carter)

1 OL (P. Johnson)

2 DBs (Gonzalez, Witherspoon)

 

Ron is going to have a decision to make at 16 if Bijan is there.  Gibson is a FA in a year.  Bijan is an immediate impact RB from day 1.  He'd lift our offense more than other player possibly could.  

[method man]

30 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

That would get me to quit if I were a GM.  I would not want my name put on those drafts.  Three years where pretty much the only players they got out of the first three rounds were Jacobs and Moehrig, they had to trade Khalil Mack to get a RB, and anyone in the world who is a moderate football fan can pick a star RB in the first round.

 

Good example of why coaches shouldn't run drafts.  Thankfully Ron doesn't seem to have the ego that Chucky does, and is more collaborative in his approach.  But it's stuff like that which makes me really nervous about the head coach centric organization structure.

Agreed. What’s funny is that Jay is apparently the opposite of his brother where he is a heck of a talent evaluator but mediocre coach

[clskinsfan]

48 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I'm thinking if Bijan gets past Philly, he's going to make it to 16.  I think the top 10 (in some order) will be:

4 QBs (Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson)

2 Edges (Anderson, Wilson)

1 DT (Carter)

1 OL (P. Johnson)

2 DBs (Gonzalez, Witherspoon)

 

Ron is going to have a decision to make at 16 if Bijan is there.  Gibson is a FA in a year.  Bijan is an immediate impact RB from day 1.  He'd lift our offense more than other player possibly could.  

I dont think Carter goes in the first round now. 

[Est.1974]

Bieniemy has to be on a promise for some skill players. RB,WR and TE all being drafted IMO. Add in a couple of OL and a later round QB. Maybe hold off and get a QB as an UDFA. Add a corner and LB. job done.

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

Ron is going to have a decision to make at 16 if Bijan is there.  Gibson is a FA in a year.  Bijan is an immediate impact RB from day 1.  He'd lift our offense more than other player possibly could.  

 

I do agree with you. I struggle with the Bijan pick CONSTANTLY. But, I do think RB is deep and we can get a good player, not necessarily comparable to a T, but we can get close IMO. I would also strongly consider a trade-down for a team that wants him, regardless of division *if the price is right

 

I was certain we were going CB with our first selection, but now think OL may have leapfrogged that preference. I can't wait for the draft though! This will be a good one I think for Commander fans. 

[Est.1974]

Thinking back to last year after our initial trade back to #16 we then had the Packers, I think, wanting to trade up. They had a couple of picks in the 20s. Sure at the time we were being offered an additional 3rd rounder plus one of those firsts.

 

Would you go back half a dozen or so slots for another 3rd ? 

[mhd24]

19 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Thinking back to last year after our initial trade back to #16 we then had the Packers, I think, wanting to trade up. They had a couple of picks in the 20s. Sure at the time we were being offered an additional 3rd rounder plus one of those firsts.

 

Would you go back half a dozen or so slots for another 3rd ? 

GB wanted to do 22+#53 for #10.  Martin & Ron said no.  They went with the NO trade instead.  It's on the inside draft room video.

31 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I do agree with you. I struggle with the Bijan pick CONSTANTLY. But, I do think RB is deep and we can get a good player, not necessarily comparable to a T, but we can get close IMO. I would also strongly consider a trade-down for a team that wants him, regardless of division *if the price is right

 

I was certain we were going CB with our first selection, but now think OL may have leapfrogged that preference. I can't wait for the draft though! This will be a good one I think for Commander fans. 

It's tough.  When I see comparison to Edge James, that's eye opening.  At some point, you don't pass on talent like that.

52 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

I dont think Carter goes in the first round now. 

Nah, he'll go.  Too talented a player.  Seattle is actually a good spot for him.  With another 1st, a high 2nd, and their own 2nd, they can afford to go for the home run at 5.

[clskinsfan]

21 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Nah, he'll go.  Too talented a player.  Seattle is actually a good spot for him.  With another 1st, a high 2nd, and their own 2nd, they can afford to go for the home run at 5

Its not just his legal issues. He showed up to his own pro day out of shape and wasnt even capable of finishing drills. Add in the medical stuff and I am not touching him if I am a GM.

Edited March 26, 2023 by clskinsfan

[Going Commando]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

Its not just his legal issues. He showed up to his own pro day out of and wasnt even capable of finishing drills. Add in the medical stuff and I am not touching him if I am a GM.

 

What are his medical issues?  I missed them.

[DWinzit]

31 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

What are his medical issues?  I missed them.

Wondering if that just the cramping and muscle tightness he was experiencing  after the workouts that he was definitely not prepared for. 

[clskinsfan]

32 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

What are his medical issues?  I missed them.

There are some reports that the reason he couldnt finish drills is because his knee and ankle issues are lingering. Not really a long term deal. But add it to the other stuff and it could be a problem.

[KDawg]

I’m treating Carter the same as I did Parsons. Character matters. From my end, without knowing the details and every bit of the truth of the matter, I can only venture guesses by what we know.

 

I wouldn’t touch him. At all.

 

Yea, Parsons is incredible and it looks like those character concerns were false. If I had insider info maybe I wouldn’t take that stance. But I don’t and I go by what I see and rely on what I hear for character. 
 

I had the info I had and I do not regret my decision on Parsons (I’m also not a paid NFL GM or scout)
 

I put Carter in the same bucket.

Edited March 26, 2023 by KDawg

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Bieniemy has to be on a promise for some skill players. RB,WR and TE all being drafted IMO. Add in a couple of OL and a later round QB. Maybe hold off and get a QB as an UDFA. Add a corner and LB. job done.

Are we sure? I mean, this is the only place he had an offer from and they would have promised an upgraded OL to his style and a legit vet QB. They have already given him that along with i am certain at least one more in day one or two of the draft. And add in a pass catching RB, could be mid round or still in FA (or trade if any truth were to rumors on Ekeler which I don't buy into). He has stated he likes the WR and TE on the roster. 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m treating Carter the same as I did Parsons. Character matters. From my end, without knowing the details and every bit of the truth of the matter, I can only venture guesses by what we know.

 

I wouldn’t touch him. At all.

 

Yea, Parsons is incredible and it looks like those character concerns were false. If I had insider info maybe I wouldn’t take that stance. But I don’t and I go by what I see and rely on what I hear for character. 
 

I put Carter in the same bucket.

Wouldn't expect any less from you. You have always been very consistent about these character guys. I find his character an issue plus showing up out of shape leads to dedication concerns. I do think he will be drafted in the first round but to this point, RR would avoid him as you would. 

[woodpecker]

3 hours ago, mhd24 said:

I'm thinking if Bijan gets past Philly, he's going to make it to 16.  I think the top 10 (in some order) will be:

4 QBs (Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson)

2 Edges (Anderson, Wilson)

1 DT (Carter)

1 OL (P. Johnson)

2 DBs (Gonzalez, Witherspoon)

 

Ron is going to have a decision to make at 16 if Bijan is there.  Gibson is a FA in a year.  Bijan is an immediate impact RB from day 1.  He'd lift our offense more than other player possibly could.  

If you’re going with a best player available approach, he may will be the pick. I wouldn’t have a problem with it, but Rivera has proven that he is more of a reach for need guy so I’m guessing they would pass on Bijon. Hopefully one of the top CB or OL falls so we can get the best of both worlds.