2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Yeah, I've been on the Bijon to Atlanta train.  He'd make that offense gel.  However, going skill in three consecutive drafts would be worrisome and they can take a RB with their relatively high 2nd round pick.  Right now, it's Carter (if he's there), Withersoon/Gonzalez (whomever is available (unless Vegas & Detroit both take Corner)), or Bijon for me for Atlanta's pick.

 

All of those options are highly plausible.  But I think Tyree Wilson will be the pick if he's on the board.  There are a lot of Georgia fans in the market, and they're a little antsy on Jalen Carter.  Normally they would be homerish and be all about him, but I think character issues are scaring them off.  I think they'd draft Wilson over Carter if both are there.

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, shemp nixon said:

Yep, and an LT to groom behind Leno this year.

He's never played on the left side of KC's Oline.  He isn't being groomed as Leno's replacement at LT.  

[mhd24]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

All of those options are highly plausible.  But I think Tyree Wilson will be the pick if he's on the board.  There are a lot of Georgia fans in the market, and they're a little antsy on Jalen Carter.  Normally they would be homerish and be all about him, but I think character issues are scaring them off.  I think they'd draft Wilson over Carter if both are there.

 

Wow, good to know.  I thought getting a DT to pair with Jarret was more of a need.  However, not taking Carter might be the best move for Carter (to get him out of the area).

 

Bijon is probably more highly rated as a player, but taking skill for 3 straight drafts doesn't diversify your team building strategy.

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I had to put Steen and Mauch at guard to be consistent with my reasoning for putting Skoronski at guard.  Sub 33" arms can't just be the cut off for Skoronski or else it isn't really a standard.  Daniels just barely passes the cut off so I left him at tackle, but I think you're right that his future is at guard and he's a better fit there.  Actually a very intriguing prospect at that position.

 

The guard class ends up looking a lot better when you move Steen, Mauch, and Skoronski and Daniels there and it isn't just Torrence alone at the top.  It's deeper in quality that tackle under those circumstances.

 

I think we in this thread are largely of a mind on the OTs this year, and it's probably because our opinions of what we value are shaped by the style of the Commanders.  Also we influence each other ad are probably watching the same games of cut ups.  The only differences of opinion we have are more fringey takes, like how much we value the potential of a few guys like Bergeron or Freeland.  In CB's case, he likes the upside on Freeland and sees the best case scenario, whereas I get more hung up on the strength and technique issues and don't like the bet as much.  Stuff like that, where reasonable minds can disagree.

 

Agree, its the tackle converts that bolster the guard spot.  I am not in love with the class as for those ones who played straight on guard.  I think the center class is pretty good, not great, but good.

 

Am still working my way though the guards so this might change.  My rankings of the tackles did change some as i kept probing.    But among the ones I'v watched I'd have them sort of somewhere in this ranking.

 

 

 

[mhd24]

Listened to Tony Pauline briefly today and he said after his workout, Paris Johnson isn't getting past Chicago at 9.  Johnson could also go as high as 7 to Vegas.

[KDawg]

Paris Johnson was never in jeopardy of falling to 16.

[Chump Bailey]

An interesting trade down situation may occur. The Cowboys want Bijan Robinson for sure. I think a move up to #16 to take him is feasible.

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

An interesting trade down situation may occur. The Cowboys want Bijan Robinson for sure. I think a move up to #16 to take him is feasible.

I aint doing that trade.  No way do I want Bijan in the division.  I'm hoping Philly doesn't take him at 10.  If Bijan is there at 16, I'm taking him for our team.

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

Wow, good to know.  I thought getting a DT to pair with Jarret was more of a need.  However, not taking Carter might be the best move for Carter (to get him out of the area).

 

Bijon is probably more highly rated as a player, but taking skill for 3 straight drafts doesn't diversify your team building strategy.

 

I think a lot of people around here are fans of Carter and have viewed him as the best player in the class for a long time, but the story of the street racing accident and Carter's involvement in it was broken by the Atlanta Journal Constitution.  So people here are super familiar with the incident and his character issues, and can probably run down the list of all of his run-ins with the law off the top of their heads with no hesitation.  I think you're right that the best thing for Jalen Carter is to get him out of the area and turning over a new leaf in a new part of the country.  There is a lot of unease with the Georgia program culture right now because of the off-field issues that basically came into public view immediately after the season ended.  There is some mistrust of the program.  But I do think they still like a lot of the prospects on that team--for instance things like viewing Chris Smith as a second round talent, etc.

[method man]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Feels like Wypler, Olu, Stromberg might be there in that third range.  If not in the 4th, I'd guess Forsyth is still there.  Heck if I buy the mocks, Stromberg might still be there in the 6th.  

I agree. Based on history, someone we like who has a high chance of being a future starter and at least a solid backup this year should be around in the 3rd. I think Stromberg will go a lot higher than what these mocks are calling for

[KDawg]

Just now, method man said:

I agree. Based on history, someone we like who has a high chance of being a future starter and at least a solid backup this year should be around in the 3rd. I think Stromberg will go a lot higher than what these mocks are calling for

Strommy is the best pure C in this class imo. If he’s available after the third and we get him later we should throw a rave. I won’t be there. I’m too old for that ****. But we should do it anyways.

[method man]

2 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Didn’t Wylie start at RT for most or even all last season, including a shutdown performance in the SB.

 

Let’s draft a couple of nasty mauling IOL. 

That slippery turf really helped both OLs in the Super Bowl. Wylie is a fantastic athlete with shorter arms who has played better at guard

[shemp nixon]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

He's never played on the left side of KC's Oline.  He isn't being groomed as Leno's replacement at LT.  

I should have chosen my words better, I was talking about an LT in the draft.👍

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, method man said:

I agree. Based on history, someone we like who has a high chance of being a future starter and at least a solid backup this year should be around in the 3rd. I think Stromberg will go a lot higher than what these mocks are calling for

 

I've been high early on Stromberg so I am partial to him.  But I need to do with this position group the same I did with tackles and that is someday watch the centers that are bunched up in my mind as close to ability wise, back to back, that tends to help me seperate them.   

 

Right now, I got Olu, Wypler, Stromberg and Forsyth close together, they all strike me as solid-good.  I am leaning Stromberg over the other 3 right now.

 

I'd put Michael-Schmitz and Tippman just a half a peg ahead of them.  Stomberg plays in the same brand of Tippman IMO, both physical players but I'd put Tippman a half a peg higher because he comes off to me a little more athletic and a little more physical, plus i suspect Tippman would play guard just as well as center so I like his position flex.

 

All the guys I've ranked so far, i'd like to have.  I've watched some others further down tier wise but am not ready to rank them yet.

 

Wypler IMO I'd go over Olu because to my eyes he's both a little more physical and also faster -- combine bears that out.   but Olu would be a nice pick.  And like Stromberg I think Forsyth as i mentioned earlier today is underrated -- I am guessing what he suffers from he's decent all around player but there isn't one thing that really jumps out about him -- not a killer athlete or especially physical.  But IMO his super power is consistency and he anchors-mirrors well in pass protection.

 

For the top center names that i am compiling stats for the only 2 centers with 33 plus inch arms are Tippman and Stromberg.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Number 44]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, its the tackle converts that bolster the guard spot.  I am not in love with the class as for those ones who played straight on guard.  I think the center class is pretty good, not great, but good.

 

Am still working my way though the guards so this might change.  My rankings of the tackles did change some as i kept probing.    But among the ones I'v watched I'd have them sort of somewhere in this ranking.

 

 

 

Ekiyor?  Broeker?  Patterson?  Kirkland?

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Strommy is the best pure C in this class imo. If he’s available after the third and we get him later we should throw a rave. I won’t be there. I’m too old for that ****. But we should do it anyways.

 

Maybe a combination parade Dan sells, and we just drafted Stromberg?  Two for the price of one.

[Chump Bailey]

1 hour ago, mhd24 said:

I aint doing that trade.  No way do I want Bijan in the division.  I'm hoping Philly doesn't take him at 10.  If Bijan is there at 16, I'm taking him for our team.

 

While it's true facing Bijon, Lamb and now Cooks would not be fun for our D, we need to continue building our foundation through the draft. If we can secure multiple day 2 picks in the top 100 or so, that'd be fantastic, IMO. I think this class is being - wait for it - underrated.  There a lot of of good options especially for the positions we are in need of, IMO and this would be a good time to do it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Number 44 said:

Ekiyor?  Broeker?  Patterson?  Kirkland?

 

As I mentioned, I've watched others but am not ready to rate them.  As far as guards the off beat one I like that is suppposed to go later in the draft is Zavala, Brugler touted him and I agree with his take, i am not blown away by him but he's solid, consistent.

 

What I haven't liked on first watch has been the 3rd tier type guards as to their inconsistency.  I've watched Sow, Ekiyor, Gaines, McClendon, McFadden (convert from tackle).  All of whom I did sort of a half page write up.  But there are more guys I need to watch.  Am watching Anthony Bradford right now.  It's been awhile for me with Ekiyor so i am going to need to refresh.  But eventually I'll get to that next tier and see if I bump any of them into the 2nd tier.

 

I don't like to rush through the spots that I know that are likely going to draft.  I'd rather know some players really well, at least in my own mind I think I do   even if it comes at the expense of covering more ground.  So especially with the players that hit me intriguing, I'll also watch their interviews and pull some articles about them to get a small feel of their intangibles like i did today with Alex Forsyth.

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Anthony Bradford, big dude who can move, right guard, 6 '4, 332 from LSU.   33.5 inch arms.  Freakish athletic numbers for his size.   He's an inconsistent player with some issues to fix, and since I am no offensive line expert-coach clearly, its tough for me to gauge how easy its to fix.  I have a hard time judging players like him from the stand point of I am not sure how easy its to fix technique. 

 

There have been some O lineman over the years who I've liked in part because of some highlight plays and have glossed over their inconsistency like Will Herhandez for example.  And in retrospect that was a mistake on my end.  So i've come to really value players who display consistency at the O line.

 

Bradford doesn't aways use his hands well or has a good feel for leverage IMO, defenders can get under his pads and slip off him or at times even fling him to the ground.   His balance IMO is meh.  But then on some plays he looks more than fine on those counts.  So again wonder about his consistency.

 

He's not always that swift in following his assignment on combo blocks. To me that an underrated quality for interior O lineman, something that for example I noticed Forsyth was good at when rewatching him this morning.

 

When he is square with the defender shoulder to shoulder he can maul and has a strong punch, and its obvious to see he has strong upper body and legs so if he improves his technique he has clear good upside.

 

I think his best potential right now is as a run blocker where he can use his size and speed to people move. He had a cool play where he was motoring down the field on a run play where he blocked two Alabama players on the same play, one he knocked on the ground.   He had some fun plays in short yardage including one on the goal line where he mauled a defender to help the RB get a TD.

 

6th roundish?  Definitely a bit of a project but with some rare upside.   He's sort of the poor man's guard verson of Wanya Morris for me.  That is, when he's on he's great but when he's off, he's off.   But if they can fix their issues, they can potentially be really good -- high ceiling players.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

A little more on Alex Forsyth, if you recall the WP article about the combine interviews of the O lineman with this team, he got the most attention space wise in that article

 

I watched the video i attach below.  He reminds me some of Tucker Kraft in that he like Kraft comes off uber mature and serious and smart -- both driven by family tragedy.  Alex lost his dad in a random mall shooting, sad story. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2023/03/06/commanders-nfl-draft-offensive-linemen/

 

Forsyth, of Oregon, felt as if he were being tested because the Ducks ran an up-tempo scheme and rarely huddled.

“He’d show a play on the board, and I’d have to go through my process,” Forsyth said.

 

Forsyth remembered explaining that before a pass play, he reads the linebackers first and then the defensive line. If he can, he looks at the safety rotation, but if the offense is using tempo, “it’s a little bit harder to do that.” Forsyth said he dived into the finer details of schemes, combo blocks and presnap movement that would lead him to flip a protection call.

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Would Dallas really draft Robinson when they already have Pollard on the franchise tag? That's a big chunk of resources to commit to a nearly obsolete position. I think after Zeke flamed out they're gonna avoid taking RB in the 1st. 

[mhd24]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Would Dallas really draft Robinson when they already have Pollard on the franchise tag? That's a big chunk of resources to commit to a nearly obsolete position. I think after Zeke flamed out they're gonna avoid taking RB in the 1st. 

Zeke wasn't a bad pick.  He carried that offense and was an elite player.  

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'd like Levis more if he wasn't gonna be 24 at the start of the season. That old and still super unpolished. Let some other team take a risk on him.

 

Mechanically and physically, I don't think he's that unpolished.  He looks like a super advanced thrower of the football who moves around in the pocket and gets the ball out really fast at an instinctive level.  That kind of NFL ready movement and mechanical ability looks like something he has mastered.  And there is so much power on his throws at the second and third level, throughout the work out.  He has really quick and explosive pocket movement, and the dude looks really well conditioned.  Like he's got his NFL body already and can throw it deep with velocity and control all game.  That usually takes some time for dudes to develop.

 

In terms of his mental development and ability to play at a high level, I think you have to account for the situation at Kentucky for why he might be behind.  Four different offenses in four years is tough.  He needs some consistency, and he also needs high level coaching.  But as we saw with other physically superior QBs who struggled with consistency and decision making in school, like Herbert and Allen, they can really thrive and make rapid strides in an NFL setting.

 

I think this guy has a chance to be a really special player.  He has the kind of work horse passer talent that Herbert and Allen do, and is just begging to play in a wide open spread offense with track meet receivers and an aggressive coach.  He would be perfect for a team like Miami, but isn't going to last deep enough into the round for them to get him.

 

This QB class is really good, so much better than last year's.  Kind of killing me that we jumped the gun and got a lesser prospect and that it probably means we have to sit this first round crop out.

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, mhd24 said:

I aint doing that trade.  No way do I want Bijan in the division.  I'm hoping Philly doesn't take him at 10.  If Bijan is there at 16, I'm taking him for our team.

I'm with you unless we can fleece them....I'd also love to make am unusual move for us and take Robinson if he's there....we'd have the BRob twins in the backfield and could trade Gibson or use him as a 3rd down back. Talk about helping out your kid QB. 

[Conn]

Anyone post this yet? 
 

This means we’re somewhere in the middle. 
 

Incredibly poor performance from the Raiders. That HAS to be historically poor. Mayock will never work in the league again obviously, but I have to assume that as the guy with final say and a $100M contract, Gruden probably had a huge hand in that. 
 

Rams aren’t surprising given they traded so many of their draft picks in that time period.