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2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

zCommander

By zCommander
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DWinzit

DWinzit

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A point on Dawand, the asisstant O line coach who I believe currently is the defacto head O line coach, coached the Senior Bowl O lineman. 

 

Dawnd was one of the players in his squad.  And he commented to the WP it helped him a lot to coach these guys and get a sense of their play.  Add that along with they've now met with him or about to 4 times --  Senior Bowl, Combine, Top 30 visit, Pro Day -- shows clear indication of interest. 

Indication of interest indeed, great point.

 

I have not followed the visits with other OL. Do  you know if  the team has met with any other Senior Bowl OL they had time with,  like  Freeland, Olu, Duncan or especially Mauch who I believe  they allowed  to play 4 different positions during  the game?

6 hours ago, RWJ said:

EB seems to envision Wylie as our starting RT per the articles but as we know he can play multiple positions in a pinch:  Inside Andrew Wylie's transition to offensive tackle (commanders.com)

 

From the article: 

"The transition to tackle started all the way back in 2020, when the Chiefs ran out of tackles because of injury to Mitchell Schwartz and Mike Remmers. The Chiefs decided to bump Wylie out to the position, and he ended up staying at the position all the way through the team's playoff run. He was put in the same position the following season, when Lucas Niang was sidelined with a knee injury, and ended up starting seven games in 2021.

 

Wylie earned the role as the starting right tackle outright in 2022 and kept it for the entire season. He feels much more comfortable at the position now than he did three years ago, and he can credit some of that to learning from Schwartz, who received positive grades from Pro Football Focus in run- and pass-blocking for his entire nine-year career.

"He's one of the most talented guys I've seen play at the position," Wylie said. "I relied a lot on his coaching, his friendship."

 

Commanders OL Nick Gates Expects To Play Center (profootballrumors.com)

 

From the article:

"In related news, Washington plans to slide Samuel Cosmi to right guard, as John Keim of ESPN.com writes. Cosmi, a 2021 second-round pick, has taken most of his pro snaps at right tackle and has played reasonably well there. However, he has dealt with injury issues in each of his first two seasons in the league, and the Commanders recently signed Andrew Wylie to man the RT post.

 

Per Keim, the club is likely to add more O-line reinforcements in this year’s draft.

 

 

This tells me that the OC, RG and RT is put into place and now LG becomes the No. 1 position of concern.  As mentioned in previous post Norwell is here for another year and he can man the position but we can do better at LG.  Does Norwell stay on as a reserve or starter or is he cut as he carries a cap hit in 2023 of over 5 Mill and change if he meets all of his incentives: Andrew Norwell Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac.  

 

Many questions to be answered via the upcoming draft.  I would think Leno stays as our starting LT but I could see us easily drafting a LT that hopefully has LG experience too or drafting a LT and LG.    

 

 

If their concern is really at LG then they will hope Torrence is available. Then that spot is solidified by a guy that totally fits what EB wants

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Chump Bailey

Chump Bailey

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24 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I have not followed the visits with other OL. Do  you know if  the team has met with any other Senior Bowl OL

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/3/20/23576654/washington-commanders-2023-nfl-draft-pre-draft-meetings-visits-tracker

Offensive Line

Mason Brooks, OT, Mississippi (Hula Bowl informal meeting)

Dillan Gibbons, OG, Florida State (Hula Bowl informal meeting)

Antonio Mafi, OG, UCLA (East-West Shrine Game informal meeting) (Pro Day interest) (Top 30 visit)

Jordan McFadden, OT, Clemson (East-West Shrine Game formal meeting) (formal Combine meeting)

O’Cyrus Torrence, OG, Florida (formal Combine interview) (Top 30 visit) (Draft Profile)

Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State (Top 30 visit)

Cody Mauch, OG, North Dakota State (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Wanya Morris, OT, Oklahoma (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Olu Oluwatimi, OL, Michigan (formal Combine meeting)

John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Peter Skoronski, OT, Northwestern (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Sidy Sow, OL, Eastern Michigan (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Tyler Steen, OT, Alabama (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Ricky Stromberg, C, Arkansas (formal Combine meeting)

Joe Tippmann, C, Wisconsin (formal Combine meeting)

Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee (formal Combine meeting) (Top 30 visit)

Jake Andrews, OG, Troy (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Steve Avila, OG, TCU (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Matthew Bergeron, OT, Syracuse (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Alex Forsyth, C, Oregon (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Paris Johnson, Jr., OT, Ohio State (formal Combine meeting)

Broderick Jones, OT, Georgia (formal Combine meeting)

McClendon Curtis, OG, Tennessee-Chattanooga (Senior Bowl informal meeting)

Ryan Swoboda, OT, Virginia (NFLPA Collegiate Bowl informal meeting)

Spencer Anderson, OL, Maryland (East-West Shrine Bowl informal meeting)

Brandon Kipper, OL, Oregon State (NFLPA Bowl informal meeting)

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Number 44

Number 44

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/3/20/23576654/washington-commanders-2023-nfl-draft-pre-draft-meetings-visits-tracker

Offensive Line

Mason Brooks, OT, Mississippi (Hula Bowl informal meeting)

Dillan Gibbons, OG, Florida State (Hula Bowl informal meeting)

Antonio Mafi, OG, UCLA (East-West Shrine Game informal meeting) (Pro Day interest) (Top 30 visit)

Jordan McFadden, OT, Clemson (East-West Shrine Game formal meeting) (formal Combine meeting)

O’Cyrus Torrence, OG, Florida (formal Combine interview) (Top 30 visit) (Draft Profile)

Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State (Top 30 visit)

Cody Mauch, OG, North Dakota State (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Wanya Morris, OT, Oklahoma (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Olu Oluwatimi, OL, Michigan (formal Combine meeting)

John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Peter Skoronski, OT, Northwestern (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Sidy Sow, OL, Eastern Michigan (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Tyler Steen, OT, Alabama (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Ricky Stromberg, C, Arkansas (formal Combine meeting)

Joe Tippmann, C, Wisconsin (formal Combine meeting)

Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee (formal Combine meeting) (Top 30 visit)

Jake Andrews, OG, Troy (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Steve Avila, OG, TCU (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Matthew Bergeron, OT, Syracuse (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Alex Forsyth, C, Oregon (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Paris Johnson, Jr., OT, Ohio State (formal Combine meeting)

Broderick Jones, OT, Georgia (formal Combine meeting)

McClendon Curtis, OG, Tennessee-Chattanooga (Senior Bowl informal meeting)

Ryan Swoboda, OT, Virginia (NFLPA Collegiate Bowl informal meeting)

Spencer Anderson, OL, Maryland (East-West Shrine Bowl informal meeting)

Brandon Kipper, OL, Oregon State (NFLPA Bowl informal meeting)

Seems odd to me that only 4 of the top 30 visits are dedicated to the OL.  Arguably our biggest need.  Maybe they are satisfied with what they know about a few other linemen so as to not need to use a top 30 visit on them, but it sure seems like a low number of visits for the OL, IMO.  Heck, 5 of the 22 starting players are on the OL, and all things are certainly not equal for the OL group compared to other groups.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/3/20/23576654/washington-commanders-2023-nfl-draft-pre-draft-meetings-visits-tracker

Offensive Line

Mason Brooks, OT, Mississippi (Hula Bowl informal meeting)

Dillan Gibbons, OG, Florida State (Hula Bowl informal meeting)

Antonio Mafi, OG, UCLA (East-West Shrine Game informal meeting) (Pro Day interest) (Top 30 visit)

Jordan McFadden, OT, Clemson (East-West Shrine Game formal meeting) (formal Combine meeting)

O’Cyrus Torrence, OG, Florida (formal Combine interview) (Top 30 visit) (Draft Profile)

Dawand Jones, OT, Ohio State (Top 30 visit)

Cody Mauch, OG, North Dakota State (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Wanya Morris, OT, Oklahoma (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Olu Oluwatimi, OL, Michigan (formal Combine meeting)

John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Peter Skoronski, OT, Northwestern (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Sidy Sow, OL, Eastern Michigan (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Tyler Steen, OT, Alabama (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Ricky Stromberg, C, Arkansas (formal Combine meeting)

Joe Tippmann, C, Wisconsin (formal Combine meeting)

Darnell Wright, OT, Tennessee (formal Combine meeting) (Top 30 visit)

Jake Andrews, OG, Troy (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Steve Avila, OG, TCU (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Matthew Bergeron, OT, Syracuse (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Alex Forsyth, C, Oregon (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Anton Harrison, OT, Oklahoma (formal Combine meeting) (Draft Profile)

Paris Johnson, Jr., OT, Ohio State (formal Combine meeting)

Broderick Jones, OT, Georgia (formal Combine meeting)

McClendon Curtis, OG, Tennessee-Chattanooga (Senior Bowl informal meeting)

Ryan Swoboda, OT, Virginia (NFLPA Collegiate Bowl informal meeting)

Spencer Anderson, OL, Maryland (East-West Shrine Bowl informal meeting)

Brandon Kipper, OL, Oregon State (NFLPA Bowl informal meeting)

 

Good stuff.   From what I understand the Senior Bowl stuff especially if its informal are meaningless becasue according to Nagy every team talks to every Senior Bowl player.  Assume the same about East-Shrine.

 

Dawand had a combine formal meeting, too. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)

I was listening to Keim's last podcast and as usual he referenced having a conversation with someone from the team about this, his impression was.

 

He gives the vibe that it might be O line in the first, tackle or guard and CB in the 2nd.  

 

I gather similar thought to what a PFF guy said he would do in this team's case which is he expects a run on the O lineman in the first and slimmer pickings in the 2nd versus the depth at CB where you likelly still have strong pickings in the 2nd. So he'd go O line first.

 

He doubts they go TE early, ditto doubts they go LB early.

 

This feels a lot like the Payne, Guice draft where they basically telegraphed (Keim among others had it but Doug Williams basically let it slip out, too) that they were targeting DT and RB in the first two rounds and it seemed clear that DT is coming fist.  But at some point hinted he thinks they'd consider.

 

This feels clear that they will draft both spots in the first two rounds and try to trade down in doing so.

 

I get the vibe that they'd like a tackle over a guard everything being equal.  Based on their meetings seems like a lock at some point they take a center.   I'd guess they end up with one of everything, tackle, guard and center.

 

To me especially if they want a tackle, you got to do it in the first.  I think there is a drop off after that 2nd tier grouping and I think the best tackles are going in the first, maybe bleed into the early 2nd.  The only tackle that I really like, but not love, that I get the vibe that might be there at 47 is Bergeron, and I think that's only 50-50 that he's there.  Tackles tend to go early. 

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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted

I think guard is pretty abysmal all things considered after the first two to three guys. 
 

For that reason I wouldn’t be surprised if Torrence is on their radar in the first. 
 

I think tackle is much deeper than guard.

 

Center is very deep and generally drafted later. If they are drafting based on scarcity of resources I’d think guard.

 

If they are drafting based on positional value, it’ll be tackle.

 

I think it’s essentially a lock we’re going to take one of them in the first.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
On 3/27/2023 at 7:45 AM, DWinzit said:

Indication of interest indeed, great point.

 

I have not followed the visits with other OL. Do  you know if  the team has met with any other Senior Bowl OL they had time with,  like  Freeland, Olu, Duncan or especially Mauch who I believe  they allowed  to play 4 different positions during  the game?

 

 

Of the players he coached.  If I have it right, these are the guys they had formal meetings at the combine with.

 

Dawand Jones

Cody Mauch

Olu Oluwatimi

Jake Andrews

 

Dawand they've gone to town with -- Senior Bowl, combine, top 30 visit. 

 

The three which they've done both combine and are also doing top 30 visits:  Dawand Jones, Torrence, Wright. 

 

Sort of interesting to see who they weren't interested in exploring further after coaching them and meeting them (they met with everyone at the Senior Bowl):  Mcclendon, Duncan, Freeland, Hayes, Patterson, Richards, Vorhees.  It's possible that they loved them that much that there was no need to see more but I doubt it because arguably all of those players have some obvious question marks.  Plus I recall Logan Paulsen referncing a conversation he had I believe with a scout from this team about Duncan where they spoke about meeting him, that left him with an unsure if they like him vibe.

 

 

 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think guard is pretty abysmal all things considered after the first two to three guys. 
 

For that reason I wouldn’t be surprised if Torrence is on their radar in the first. 
 

I think tackle is much deeper than guard.

 

Center is very deep and generally drafted later. If they are drafting based on scarcity of resources I’d think guard.

 

If they are drafting based on positional value, it’ll be tackle.

 

I think it’s essentially a lock we’re going to take one of them in the first.

 

To me I think its tricky.  I think after Dawand, Harrison, Wright, there is a drop off.  Then B. Jones, Bergeron, then drop off.

 

With guard I think you likely have some left in the 2nd and third.   To me Mauch, Steen, Daniels are guards -- they don't have enough length to play tackle IMO so they beef up the depth at that spot. 

 

So the next tier at tackle would be Wanya Morris, Freelend, Duncan, Warren, Hayes.  

 

Though, I can defiintely see Torrence from the stand point of he's plug and play.  He'd have to adjust to the left side, though.    I am guessing right now they successfully trade down and take BPA left among:  Dawand, Wright, Torrence, Harrison.   

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DWinzit

DWinzit

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To me I think its tricky.  I think after Dawand, Harrison, Wright, there is a drop off.  Then B. Jones, Bergeron, then drop off.

 

With guard I think you likely have some left in the 2nd and third.   To me Mauch, Steen, Daniels are guards -- they don't have enough length to play tackle IMO so they beef up that spot. 

 

So the next tier at tackle would be Wanya Morris, Freelend, Duncan, Warren, Hayes.  

 

Though, I can defiintely see Torrence from the stand point of is plug and play.  He'd have to adjust to the left side, though.    I am guessing right now they successfully trade down and take BPA left among:  Dawand, Wright, Torrence, Harrison.   

Makes a lot of sense to me as well. Trade down and take a guy should at least eventually be cabalbe of playing LT or take the top LG and solidify that spot. Then in the 3rd or 4th grab a C (maybe Olu is  their guy). Nice rebuild of the OL with the FA acquisitions. Go DB/LB/RB with the surrounding picks.

 

I am skipping TE only because of their comments of being happy with what they have now. Iam interested to see if they look any more at the top  couple TE's

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KDawg

KDawg

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To me I think its tricky.  I think after Dawand, Harrison, Wright, there is a drop off.  Then B. Jones, Bergeron, then drop off.

 

With guard I think you likely have some left in the 2nd and third.   To me Mauch, Steen, Daniels are guards -- they don't have enough length to play tackle IMO so they beef up the depth at that spot. 

 

So the next tier at tackle would be Wanya Morris, Freelend, Duncan, Warren, Hayes.  

 

Though, I can defiintely see Torrence from the stand point of he's plug and play.  He'd have to adjust to the left side, though.    I am guessing right now they successfully trade down and take BPA left among:  Dawand, Wright, Torrence, Harrison.   

 

Top three guards to me are: Torrence, Skoronski (yes, he is a tackle, but when I watch him play and move he moves so much like a guard. Even some of his pass sets almost seem more like a guard's. I think he actually plays tackle like a guard would. I think his transition to guard would be smooth) and Mauch.

 

Not all that sold on Steen or Daniels as guards. Position changes are tough. I think Daniels has a better shot. He is explosive off the line and moves real well laterally. Also very aggressive.

 

But imo:

 

Johnson, DJones, Harrison, Wright, BJones and Bergeron > Torrence, Skoronski, Mauch, maybe Daniels.

 

I think by 47, though, there are maybe 2-3 of these guys on the board. Bergeron could be, but I have doubts. Mauch could be, but I have doubts. I think Daniels may be there but he does need to transition. 

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Top three guards to me are: Torrence, Skoronski (yes, he is a tackle, but when I watch him play and move he moves so much like a guard. Even some of his pass sets almost seem more like a guard's. I think he actually plays tackle like a guard would. I think his transition to guard would be smooth) and Mauch.

 

Not all that sold on Steen or Daniels as guards. Position changes are tough. I think Daniels has a better shot. He is explosive off the line and moves real well laterally. Also very aggressive.

 

But imo:

 

Johnson, DJones, Harrison, Wright, BJones and Bergeron > Torrence, Skoronski, Mauch, maybe Daniels.

 

I think by 47, though, there are maybe 2-3 of these guys on the board. Bergeron could be, but I have doubts. Mauch could be, but I have doubts. I think Daniels may be there but he does need to transition. 

 

Yeah agree very few people left argue that Skoronski is a tackle.   I like both Steen and Daniels as guards, both really athletic dudes who can move but without the length to play tackle. 

 

Tackles go early. So yeah while I do agree, I said so, that the tackles are better than the guards but that's sort my point because I don't think they are lasting long. 

 

I see Wright sometimes for example top 15 in mocks.   I think the only tackle who has a shot among the ones you mentioned left at 47 would be Bergeron and even he isn't slam dunk to be there.   Mocks aren't always correct clearly but tackles tend to go if anything earlier than expected typically not later.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Makes a lot of sense to me as well. Trade down and take a guy should at least eventually be cabalbe of playing LT or take the top LG and solidify that spot. Then in the 3rd or 4th grab a C (maybe Olu is  their guy). Nice rebuild of the OL with the FA acquisitions. Go DB/LB/RB with the surrounding picks.

 

I am skipping TE only because of their comments of being happy with what they have now. Iam interested to see if they look any more at the top  couple TE's

 

I get the vibe that edge will be in the mix at some point, too. As far as meetings overlapping coaching at the Senior Bowl, Foskey is the one that hits me that fits that as to edge.  Doubting he's there though in the late third.  But if they trade down and pick and get maybe an early 3rd round pick, maybe there is an off chance he's there.

 

I talked about him recently on ths thread.  I like him, don't love him.  But late 2nd, early third I think he'd be a good get on the off chance he lasts that long.  He needs to develop more pass rushing moves IMO -- but as a pure athlete and pure potential, he's really intriguing to me.   Well rounded skills.

 

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Chump Bailey

Chump Bailey

Posted
Posted

IMO, this OT class is being slept on. There is value to be had.

 

Big-time Bargain Potential:

 

Matthew Bergeron

Warren McClendon

Wanya Morris

Tyler Steen 

 

High Ceiling:

 

Blake Freeland

Anton Harrison

Broderick Jones

Jaelyn Duncan

 

Plug N Play:

 

Paris Johnson

Dawand Jones

Pete Skoronski

Darnell Wright

 

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KDawg

KDawg

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chump Bailey said:

IMO, this OT class is being slept on. There is value to be had.

 

Big-time Bargain Potential:

 

Matthew Bergeron

Warren McClendon

Wanya Morris

Tyler Steen 

 

High Ceiling:

 

Blake Freeland

Anton Harrison

Broderick Jones

Jaelyn Duncan

 

Plug N Play:

 

Paris Johnson

Dawand Jones

Pete Skoronski

Darnell Wright

 

We’re talking specific to the first two rounds.

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kingdaddy

kingdaddy

Posted
Posted

On ESPN.com, forme GM Mike Tannenbaum picks the entire 1st round and gives TE Dalton Kincaid to the Commanders. I just watched highlights of Kincaid and he looks like a great pick for us. Howell would love this kid. When you watch footage of a kid like this it's easy to move on from an older guy like Thomas. Check him out.

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Est.1974

Est.1974

Posted
Posted

Rivera plugging both Charles and Paul as young players in a battle for that LG berth. He also talked about having that third safety. Versatile DB who can cover the slot. This is going to be an exciting draft. 

Still think we go CB but I’m throwing Branch back in the conversation. In fact we likely take 2 DBs before we take 2 OL in my opinion.

 

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