2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Chump Bailey]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Turner, another one of my faves but i wouldn't go as ar as the #2 corner in the draft but surprised he gets so little buzz aside from some during the combine

 

 

 

 

It's a size thing. That's the only reason he is not considered higher, IMO. He's one of the best man-cover CB's in the class for my money. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

It's a size thing. That's the only reason he is not considered higher, IMO. He's one of the best man-cover CB's in the class for my money. 

 

He's not as sticky in coverage IMO as the top corners in this class or as physical as some.  So I get why he's not compared to them.  but in that next grouping IMO, the 2nd tier he's IMO one of the best.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

My last plea for GM's for our 2023 ES Mock Draft. Any takers let @COWBOY-KILLA- know.

 

Join us!

 

It's a fun exercise for us draft nerds but we are close to being shut down this year for lack of players. 

[Going Commando]

I don't really get the Darnell Wright love fest.  His tape is good, but it certainly isn't great.  And he got covered up in pass pro by that short drop, no huddle, and intensely RPO heavy offense Tennessee offense, especially against Clemson, and still got beat four or five times by Bresee. Bresee moved around and played in a rotation, so this was not an every down match up where Darnell was getting in his share of wins too.  He just couldn't deal with Bresee's combo of superior speed and power.

 

Darnell is used to bullying guys who he is quicker and bigger than, and that was most match ups at the college level, but it won't be the same in the NFL.  He isn't a master technician with effortless footwork on NFL style setting like Harrison.  The type of setting he did at Tennessee was super gimmicky and won't translate that well to the NFL where he is going to have to do a ton of vertical setting against wide rushers who will absolutely smoke him if he tries to jump them or block them without bucket stepping.

 

And he isn't power personified.  He's got quick hands, but they are tiny and his grip strength is nothing special.  His functional power is not in the same league as Dawand's or Bresee's.  Bresee got into his chest and Darnell couldn't clear his hands try as he might.  That plus the fact he always tries to jump the DL and ends up lunging are why he gets beaten by push-pull, and that is a rush that every single NFL DL can use in their sleep.

 

Darnell is a good lineman but the tape does not back up the glowing takes every draftnik has had about him since the senior bowl.  Every time I've read the love fest about him, I go back to Tennessee O cut ups to try and talk myself into him, and the tape just isn't there for me.  That offense was a gimmick.  Neither are the quality SB practice and drill reps.  And it actually worries me that his style won't translate that well to the league, and that he's going to end up at guard.

 

I like him better than Broderick Jones and O'Cyrus Torrence, but he's a clear step down in quality from Skoronski, Harrison, and the Ohio State guys to me.

[Warhead36]

After Johnson the OT rankings are just so erratic and all over the place. There doesn’t appear to be any consensus. 

[Chump Bailey]

26 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

After Johnson the OT rankings are just so erratic and all over the place. There doesn’t appear to be any consensus. 

 

It's hard to rank them this year, I agree. 

[Going Commando]

I think Wright is a first rounder based on the fact that he's really quick and light on his feet, particularly for his size.  He's going to be a good run blocker because of his explosiveness and running ability.  And he's a clever player with good hand work that is quick and he does a good job diagnosing how rush plans and countering them.  But I don't think he's a dominant player.  And I also think there is a little bit of stiffness there in him.

 

Watching that Georgia game again, you can see why people love Jalen Carter the player.  He is obviously a dominant talent who is on a different level from all of the other linemen around him.  He's Chris Jones if his career doesn't go sideways over character problems. 

 

But the other guy who is so tantalizing from that D is Ringo.  That battle with Cedric Tillman was fun, and that INT from press man was about as impressive and dominant a rep as you will see from a corner.  Really physical player in the run game too.  He's got sky high upside, but the route recognition skills just aren't there yet.  He would be a guy whose interviews will make or break his first round stock for me.  If he seems like a guy who will put the work in to improve, then you can forgive some of the clueless looking film and breakdowns in technique.

[Going Commando]

The corner class is a lot harder for me to rank than the OL class.  I'm pretty set on an OL ranking of:

 

1 - Paris

2 - Dawand

3 - Anton

4 - Skoronski

5 - Darnell

6 - Broderick

7 - Cody

8 - O'Cyrus

9 - Bergeron

10 - JMS

 

WR is hard to rank this year too.  So are LB and Edge.

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

But the other guy who is so tantalizing from that D is Ringo.  That battle with Cedric Tillman was fun, and that INT from press man was about as impressive and dominant a rep as you will see from a corner.  Really physical player in the run game too.  He's got sky high upside, but the route recognition skills just aren't there yet.  He would be a guy whose interviews will make or break his first round stock for me.  If he seems like a guy who will put the work in to improve, then you can forgive some of the clueless looking film and breakdowns in technique.

The one reason I like Ringo for us(more than many other teams) is how good our staff is at developing DBs. St. Juste, Curl, Forrest, all mid to late round picks. Now you give them someone like Ringo with much more raw physical talent and the potential is through the roof. Definitely a risky pick at 16 but if he drops to the end of the 1st I wouldn't mind trading up to snag him(assuming we don't draft a DB at 16).

Just now, Going Commando said:

The corner class is a lot harder for me to rank than the OL class.  I'm pretty set on an OL ranking of:

 

1 - Paris

2 - Dawand

3 - Anton

4 - Skoronski

5 - Darnell

6 - Broderick

7 - Cody

8 - O'Cyrus

9 - Bergeron

10 - JMS

 

WR is hard to rank this year too.  So are LB and Edge.

I have Harrison over Dawand Jones at T but otherwise I agree with your top five Ts.

 

Skoronski is going to be a G so I wouldn't rank him with the Ts. He loses a lot of value, but at 16 would probably be worth it(even though I'm vehemently against taking Gs in the 1st).

[Chump Bailey]

John Stephens Jr, Raging Cajuns WR/TE is an interesting prospect. 

[Skinsinparadise]

As for the Kelee Ringo talk here.  IMO, he'd be one of my top wants at 47 albiet i suspect he doesn't last that long.

 

He gets murdered by double moves and gave up some big plays.   But his size-athleticism screams special.  I posted articles about him here previously -- really high intangibles. He's only 20 years old.  He plays hard, strong against the run.  He's plenty sticky in coverage for the chunk of the games I've watched but then he will all of a sudden give up a big play.   Has ball skills.

 

To use a baseball analogy, he'd be pitching a shut down and then all of a sudden give up some mamouth home runs.  I think that likely can be coached out of him as to biting on double moves.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[NYSkins21]

1 hour ago, Chump Bailey said:

My last plea for GM's for our 2023 ES Mock Draft. Any takers let @COWBOY-KILLA- know.

 

Join us!

 

It's a fun exercise for us draft nerds but we are close to being shut down this year for lack of players. 

I’d like to jump in

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Kelee Ringo talk here.  IMO, he'd be one of my top wants at 47 albiet i suspect he doesn't last that long.

 

He gets murdered by double moves and gave up some big plays.   But his size-athleticism screams special.  I posted articles about him here previously -- really high intangibles. He's only 20 years old.  He plays hard, strong against the run.  He's plenty sticky in coverage for the chunk of the games I've watched but then he will all of a sudden give up a big play. 

 

To use a baseball analogy, he'd be pitching a shut down and then all of a sudden give up some mamouth home runs.  I think that likely can be coached out of him as to biting on double moves.

Ringo is a very frustrating player. I recall some games where he was the most standout player of that whole talented roster. I also recall throwing things at the TV after being scorched numerous times. I don't know if he can be taught or not but I pushed out of the first round long ago. I guess he would be okay at 47 but he just scares the crap out of me.

[Warhead36]

The way I see it is: we don't have enough special, game breaking talent. Our roster is fairly solid across the board, and we some really good players, but other than McLaurin nobody on our team is a real dynamic game changing type of player(Young if he can reach his potential could be). Ringo can be that kind of player and would present tremendous value if he were a late 1st/2nd rounder. I agree at #16 he might be too big of a risk but at some point we gotta swing for the fences for some real dynamic talent if we wanna reach the upper echelons.

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The way I see it is: we don't have enough special, game breaking talent. Our roster is fairly solid across the board, and we some really good players, but other than McLaurin nobody on our team is a real dynamic game changing type of player(Young if he can reach his potential could be). Ringo can be that kind of player and would present tremendous value if he were a late 1st/2nd rounder. I agree at #16 he might be too big of a risk but at some point we gotta swing for the fences for some real dynamic talent if we wanna reach the upper echelons.

Roster needs a dynamic/stud DB and an offensive playmaker equally as dynamic added IMO.

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Roster needs a dynamic/stud DB and an offensive playmaker equally as dynamic added IMO.

I wanna see what some of our skill players can do with Bienimy. Turner was so bad at maximizing the talent at those positions but I think under Bienimy you're gonna see guys like Gibson and Samuel really shine. And I think Dotson will take a big step up in year 2. 

 

But I do agree that we need more gamebreaking/playmaking talent. Guys that can win a game on their own with a breakaway TD or pick 6/fumble 6 type play. 

 

We saw Young make those kinds of plays his rookie year so I'm optimistic he can return to that kind of form and even build on it, but need someone else in the back end.

[mhd24]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for the Kelee Ringo talk here.  IMO, he'd be one of my top wants at 47 albiet i suspect he doesn't last that long.

 

He gets murdered by double moves and gave up some big plays.   But his size-athleticism screams special.  I posted articles about him here previously -- really high intangibles. He's only 20 years old.  He plays hard, strong against the run.  He's plenty sticky in coverage for the chunk of the games I've watched but then he will all of a sudden give up a big play.   Has ball skills.

 

To use a baseball analogy, he'd be pitching a shut down and then all of a sudden give up some mamouth home runs.  I think that likely can be coached out of him as to biting on double moves.

I forgot where I read, but some scouts said Ringo has to either move to FS or play in an exclusive cover 3.  I think Bob Mcgann is doing his annual positional previews.  Maybe it was there?

[Est.1974]

4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I wanna see what some of our skill players can do with Bienimy. Turner was so bad at maximizing the talent at those positions but I think under Bienimy you're gonna see guys like Gibson and Samuel really shine. And I think Dotson will take a big step up in year 2. 

 

But I do agree that we need more gamebreaking/playmaking talent. Guys that can win a game on their own with a breakaway TD or pick 6/fumble 6 type play. 

 

We saw Young make those kinds of plays his rookie year so I'm optimistic he can return to that kind of form and even build on it, but need someone else in the back end.

Zay Flowers could be a surprise target. Rivera wants to get the ball out quick. How many times did he mention doing what KC do when interviewed. Can’t wait for the draft, should be real interesting.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Est.1974

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

21 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I recall they met him in some capacity

 

 

 

That kid was routinely nailing 60 yarders in practice.

 

He's basically the Steph Curry of kickers: His range is once he steps on the field.

[NYSkins21]

5 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The way I see it is: we don't have enough special, game breaking talent. Our roster is fairly solid across the board, and we some really good players, but other than McLaurin nobody on our team is a real dynamic game changing type of player(Young if he can reach his potential could be). Ringo can be that kind of player and would present tremendous value if he were a late 1st/2nd rounder. I agree at #16 he might be too big of a risk but at some point we gotta swing for the fences for some real dynamic talent if we wanna reach the upper echelons.

Exactly! Which is why I would absolutely love for them to go BPA at 16. AssumingThe following are gone:

Christian Gonzalez

Paris Johnson Jr.

Peter Skoronski

Devon Witherspoon

Id absolutely love that #16 dynamic BPA selection to be:

Bijan Robinson or Dalton Kincaid

One of those two would be an incredible hit filling a need, giving young SH another weapon and arguably one of the most young talented Offenses in the NFL within EB’s offense. Hammer the rest of the draft with OL, CB, LB. Maybe take a shot at another QB in rounds 3-4?

 

We have a good young CB room. Could we use another one? Sure. But the Corners are deep in this draft.  A healthy CY obviously helps this group as well.

 

Giving young SH weapons all over the field must be a priority.

 

Man I’m excited to say the least.

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

Zay Flowers could be a surprise target. Rivera wants to get the ball out quick. How many times did he mention doing what KC do when interviewed. Can’t wait for the draft, should be real interesting.

 

It would be beyond a surprise for me, I'd be shocked.  I keep hearing from those covering the team is that Rivera wants Bieniemy to be able to get the ball to their three pass catchers and they might not be hankering for another pass catching TE because how many balls can they spread around?   And supposedly according to Keim the Dyami Brown trade rumor is BS, he heard directly from a team source on that and was told they are high on his potential in this coming offense.

 

You add that to the idea that they seem to be meeting with hardly anyone at WR.  It would be a wow out of left field pick I think.  It definitely would have escaped Keim who has mentioned spots they are looking to upgrade and not once mentioned WR.

 

I doubt they have a left field pick in the first.  But if there is one, I suspect its more likely edge.    Having said that like i always say if Keim changes his tune, that will get my attention as always.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I doubt they have a left field pick in the first.  But if there is one, I suspect its more likely edge.    Having said that like i always say if Keim changes his tune, that will get my attention as always.

Edge for sure is a possibility. I do think all options may well be open though. I’d add a receiver, RB and TE if the draft fell right. 
 

Re OL, still unsure if we go for a pure centre. KC drafted Creed Humphrey, Rivera seemed very keen to reiterate the KC model on interview. The fact they have Mahomes somewhat impacts that 

 

At this stage, I’m not that invested in the positions taken on our early picks. Just pick some good players who will contribute, right. Oh and we’ll need to bag a couple of Alabama players won’t we  

Edited March 30, 2023 by Est.1974

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, NYSkins21 said:

I’d like to jump in

 

Excellent! @COWBOY-KILLA- we have a new GM that would like to participate! 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Bieinemy, that's intense for him to go.  More Darnell Wright?  Maybe as far as the Tennesse receivers?

Edited March 30, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Chump Bailey]

I won't be shocked if Darnell is the pick @ 16 assuming there are no offers to trade down.