2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Redskins 2021]

It appears chiefs may have some intrust in trading for M Sweat. I would imagine we would get there first. Who would we want with that pick ? I was hoping they would keep him but I guess we can't sign all four defensive linemen

Edited March 31, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

I think the perception at the tackle position is likely changing because there are fewer elite LT knocking around now. You have players like Orlando Brown who play left, many teams should be right. Maybe the league is predominantly full of swing tackle level players.

 

But man, you get a Trent Williams elite athlete and he’s not going to get out of bed to play RT. 

 

I don't think this is true at all.  Why do you think the level of tackle play in the NFL isn't good? And Trent Williams started most of his games at Oklahoma at RT.  He played LT for us because we were had a major hole there.  Lane Johnson is just as good of an athlete as Trent, is arguably the best tackle in the NFL right now, and plays RT in the NFL.  Orlando Brown is far from a swing tackle caliber player.  Not trying to come off too harshly here, but being entrenched in an outdated view of the tackle position that it leads one to reason that Orlando Brown isn't that good is a clear demonstration of how misconceptions about skillset/scheme leads to errors in evaluation.

[Est.1974]

13 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I don't think this is true at all.  Why do you think the level of tackle play in the NFL isn't good? And Trent Williams started most of his games at Oklahoma at RT.  He played LT for us because we were had a major hole there.  Lane Johnson is just as good of an athlete as Trent, is arguably the best tackle in the NFL right now, and plays RT in the NFL.  Orlando Brown is far from a swing tackle caliber player.  Not trying to come off too harshly here, but being entrenched in an outdated view of the tackle position that it leads one to reason that Orlando Brown isn't that good is a clear demonstration of how misconceptions about skillset/scheme leads to errors in evaluation.

There aren’t many more than you’ve named really. The guy at Houston keeps robbing them.

17 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

It appears chiefs may have some intrust in trading for M Sweat. I would imagine we would get there first. Who would we want with that pick ? I was hoping they would keep him but I guess we can't sign all four defensive linemen

Where is that news coming from?

[Redskins 2021]

14 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

There aren’t many more than you’ve named really. The guy at Houston keeps robbing them.

Where is that news coming from?

Chat sports Kansas city chiefs channel did a video on it last night. It was also in an si posting a couple days ago.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Redskins 2021

[Going Commando]

6 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

There aren’t many more than you’ve named really. The guy at Houston keeps robbing them.

 

Agreed that Tunsil is committing some larceny.  But Andrew Thomas and Tristan Wirfs?  Darrisaw and Mailata?  Ramczyk?  Bahktiari?  Ronnie Stanley too, when he's healthy.  We've got some dudes playing tackle in the NFL.

 

Even the average guys like Kolton Miller, McGary, McGlinchey, Tytus Howard, Brian O'Neill, Jake Matthews, etc. are pretty good players.  Better than Leno, who is probably the  benchmark for average starter in the league, and he holds it down pretty well.

[Est.1974]

19 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Agreed that Tunsil is committing some larceny.  But Andrew Thomas and Tristan Wirfs?  Darrisaw and Mailata?  Ramczyk?  Bahktiari?  Ronnie Stanley too, when he's healthy.  We've got some dudes playing tackle in the NFL.

 

Even the average guys like Kolton Miller, McGary, McGlinchey, Tytus Howard, Brian O'Neill, Jake Matthews, etc. are pretty good players.  Better than Leno, who is probably the  benchmark for average starter in the league, and he holds it down pretty well.

I think you’d have to gauge how that evolves. You’ve taken a bit of an outlier view on this re RT/LT, which I respect. But I’m not sure the reality is quite where your position is. Yet.

[FrFan]

 

[DWinzit]

On 3/31/2023 at 7:52 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

I mentioned Diaby yesterday that I was watching him and is a mid round type edge that I really like.  I'll double down on that point.  I take back the mid round stuff even though he's there is some mocks I've seen, i think he goes in the late 3rd-4th round range.

 

Yaya Diaby, 6 '3, 263, edge from Lousiville.  9 sacks.   He's sort of a poor man's Uzomah.  He's a similar player stylistically IMO.

 

Fast first step, he's fast period, really good bend.  Sheds tackles.  He's not as consistent and in turn as menacing as Uzomah but not a mile off either.  His bend is good but IMO not on Uzomah's level.  I think I like Keion White, who also plays in a similar brand, over both of these guys but I'll save that for a different post. But I do like all three to different degrees.

 

Diaby killed the combine as far as showcasing his athleticism.   Like Uzomah just OK against the run.  Can get lost in the wash and swallowed out of some plays.  But he hustles which I like, a Qb sprung loose on a play and he chased him about 20 yards down the field.

 

PFF is not high on him, their scores are good for him but don't rank him high overall.  Brugler seems to like him.    I've been at odds with some of Brugler's takes in recent years on some players but I am with him on Diaby and Zavala

 

They moved him around, left and right, liked to use him on stunts to come inside.  Fun watch of him versus Bergeron -- Bergeron mostly held his own but also easy to see that he was a handful to deal with and sometimes he got double team help.  At a minimum Diaby really made Bergeron work and he got to his outside shoulder and even past him on some plays.   Spin move, swim, rip, bull rushes. 

 

I believe I saw that he had a good game againt Clemson but couldn't find a game that just focuses on the defense and I don't have the patience to work through that full game.

 

 

I enjoy these day 3 player posts. Team has a lot of needs, they all can't be filled the first 2 days. Diaby would be a nice day 3 fit if Edge is not addressed earlier

Edited April 1, 2023 by DWinzit
Spelling correction

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Taking Keim’s point further that can mean a pass rushing LB like Pace 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

On 3/30/2023 at 6:55 PM, KDawg said:

He’s probably been mentioned but keep an eye on EDGE/LB Derek Parish, Houston. 4.09 20 yard shuttle, 4.5ish 40.

 

Guy had 8.5 TFL and 5 sacks this season. In four games.

 

Captain.

 

Has missed some games so he’s going to be a lower round guy but I’d love to get this guy late. I think he’s on the Texans radar… from Houston, played for Houston in college.

 

 

 

This post is similar to the one I just like the SIP post I just mentioned, really enjoy these posts!

 

I have an Edge/LB question.

I have noticed many mocks have us selecting Nick Herbig in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th rounds. Do not like him in the 2nd round and don't see him as a great Edge. Do you we could use him as a LB and move him around sticking him at Edge some? He seems much better in a 3-4.

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Taking Keim’s point further that can mean a pass risking LB like Pace 

So weird you just posted this as I was writing my post.

Man are Pace's moves and instincts incredible. His size and speed are a little scary but what a fun player. He can fake the pants of blockers 

Edited April 1, 2023 by DWinzit

[method man]

On Keim’s point, you could just get another off ball LB and have Jamin rush the passer more. It’s his special skill

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, method man said:

On Keim’s point, you could just get another off ball LB and have Jamin rush the passer more. It’s his special skill

 

Keim believes they are getting a LB no matter what.  In addition to that clearly its a DE or LB who specializes in pass rushing.

 

I like Jamin's pass rushing ability, I think I might have even been the first to point that out here before the draft, they didn't rush him much but when they did he looked good.  Kentucky initially considered using him at edge at the start of his college career.  Having said that, I don't think he has the pass rushing chops of the typical edge or for that matter a LB like Pace. 

 

Jamin on delayed blitzes, double A, etc sprints at the QB like a bat out of hell, and is good at it, but IMO if they want to bring another component of pass rush lets say Hassan Reddick style, I think they got to go beyond Jamin IMO.

Edited April 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

I talked about Sirvocea Dennis before in depth so don't feel like repeating all of it again but I'll hit the highlights.  But I'll say he fits the Rivera profile, military backgound, high character, position flex -- played outside LB then moved to the middle.

 

7 sacks.  2 force fumbles and a pick.    His missed tackle rate, is the best in this class, under 5%

 

His pass rushing IMO is more in the style of Jamin, meaning more about timing and speed then been about a pass rushing arsenal.  And like Jamin he's a good athlete but not as freakish as Jamin, he had the best vertical in this group of LBs.  Physically he looks jacked similar to Jamin so fitness is obviously important to him.

 

A bit undersized at 226 but has 33 inch arms, longer arms than Sanders, Simpson, Campbell, etc.

 

He's not a stack and shed LB like Campbell who of course I'd prefer. 

 

He's a sound tackler though if you can keep him clean, goes low, wraps and finishes the block well, reminds me a little of Brian Branch on that count.  Can overshoot his targets. Plays like a ball of energy but noticed that energy wasn't the same level towards the end of the games. 

 

Looks to have good play recognition skills but can get washed up too much for my liking in traffic -- reminds me a little of Dorain Williams on that front.

 

In th 5th roundish range, he's intriguing to me

 

 

https://triblive.com/sports/thanks-to-parents-army-background-pitt-linebacker-sirvocea-dennis-grows-into-leader/

Thanks to parents' Army background, Pitt linebacker SirVocea Dennis grows into leader

The middle linebacker position is one of toughness and leadership — Dick Butkus played there; so did Jack Lambert — and those concepts were not difficult for Dennis to embrace.

“I come from a military background,” he said. “I, basically, grew up into it. My Mom and Dad are both in the military. Both grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles. If I didn’t get my homework in on time, I got a lot of pushups and pullups.

“I used to think (leadership) was the hardest part (of playing middle linebacker), but being that it comes from my background, it’s easier than I thought it was. Coming into that role more helps me become a better player.”

 

 

 

https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2021/08/25/cam-bright-sirvocea-dennis-lead-pitt-football-deep-rangy-linebacker-room-wendell-davis-pat-narduzzi-cdc

 

"Dennis has done both," Narduzzi said of Dennis playing outside and mike linebacker. "He can play all three linebacker spots so offenses will have to worry about him all over the field. There's competition that will come down to just how they practice each week and fit into our game plan versus each offense we face. We know where they can play and their strengths and weaknesses, but it will just come down to game week and how guys work into the game plan, play well and show up in practice."

Dennis called the opportunity to play all the positions "a gift" from Narduzzi and sees it as an opportunity to make himself more of a playmaker.

"I've been working to know where everyone is from multiple positions," Dennis said. "I need to know everything about the defense and the concepts we try to implement. Now that I can do that everywhere, I thank coach (Narduzzi) for that."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

One of my favorite backs in this draft, plays a similar style to Spears IMO.  But like Spears his stop and go ability is really good.   Lacks breakaway speed.

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FrFan]

Day 2 of the SB Nation 2023 Mock Draft Extravaganza - The Commanders are nearly on the clock

[Skinsinparadise]

The more I dive in this class, edge, might be my favorite class in this draft.  The 2nd-3rd round range at that spot feels killer, there are too many of them I think to not have one fall to our late third round pick.   Some say you got to come out with a corner in a draft like this, I agree, but edge to me is just as stacked, its maybe even more stacked.  I think Keion White remains my favorite in that 2nd tier group so far but I have plenty more to watch. 

 

Derick Hall.  Edge from Auburn..  6.3, 256, good athlete, ran 4.55 with killer agility scores.  Had sack production in multiple seasons.   

 

Has length and change with 34.5 inch arms. 21 hurries.  9 sacks.  He uses his length well.

 

He reminds me strength and weakness wise some of Isaiah Foskey.   I come off with the same vibe watching both players, good players, not convinced they are great (lack that elite twitchiness-bend) but have the potential-athleticism-length to grow in the pros. I'd favor Foskey by a little because IMO he's better against the run.

 

Good first step but not great.  I've seen better bend too.   But still good -- but not freakishly good. 

 

As a pure pass rusher, like Foskey IMO does a lot of things good, nothing hits me great but well rounded.  There is some stiffness is his movement.

 

I don't like him against the run.  Hall can get washed in traffic in the run game and pushed out of the play.  When teams want to run outsize zone against him, especially when he's playing on the left side, they seem to have little issue opening a gap by pushing him out of the way to break a wide zone run.  

 

Seems to have a good arsenal of moves.  Bull rushes, rip move, swing move.  Strong hands, swats O lineman arms down, using his length.

 

Likely benefited from having Wooden on the other side, but he was double teamed multiple times in the 2 games I watched -- I haven't counted to see if it was more or less than Wooden.  They switch both guys around to different spots.   Wooden on the inside at times.

 

Played plenty without his hand in the dirt, and some in coverage.   If there are going with one of their 5 D lineman sets, I can see someone like him lining up wide. 

 

Late 3rd roundish, good pick in that range.  One of my least favs in this 2nd tier group but I still like him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

The EDGE class is ridiculous. Going to be guys who are fringe first rounders in the third round this year. 

[Est.1974]

26 minutes ago, KDawg said:

The EDGE class is ridiculous. Going to be guys who are fringe first rounders in the third round this year. 

Yep. We got to take one IMO.

[RWJ]

4 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Yep. We got to take one IMO.

Making a trade down a good possibility not for that reason but wanting to move down and having an extra 3rd round pick.  

[Koolblue13]

Nice to see pass rusher being prioritized. It's been a top 4 need since last year.

 

We have elite level pass rush from the line. We need a weapon coming from behind them. 

 

Edge/OLB specialist, that can grow into a complete LBer.

 

That's why Sanders is my top LBer. Then Simpson. I like Herbig.  Diaby, Hall, Overshown, Henley, Pappoe too.

 

Nick Hampton might be a 7th rd guy.

 

Nolan Smith at 16 would be my favorite pick.

[Going Commando]

I wish Blake Corum had declared.  He is one of the most elusive runners in the hole that I've seen in a while.  He absolutely stunned Jack Campbell in the Iowa game for his TD.  Jack came in on a normal angle of pursuit unblocked and Corum hit him with such a quick little hesi dead leg cut before bouncing further outside that you can see the "wtf just happened?" in Campbell's body language.  And Jack Campbell is a good athlete.

 

Corum would be such a perfect change of pace runner to go with Gibby and Robinson.

 

Oh well.  I still like Deuce Vaughn as the poor man's version of Corum.

 

On the topic of rush linebackers, Ivan Pace is what you want there, and he's going to be a late rounder.

[Going Commando]

Schematic question: if you use Pace primarily as a pressure player, and mainly have him rush the A and B gaps like he did at Cincinnati, how do you compensate for that in your coverages if you run a four man line?  Do you have to become zone blitz heavy?

[Chump Bailey]

Keep tabs on Freshman Georgia DB Malaki Starks. He is going to be a stud.

 

[KDawg]

44 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Schematic question: if you use Pace primarily as a pressure player, and mainly have him rush the A and B gaps like he did at Cincinnati, how do you compensate for that in your coverages if you run a four man line?  Do you have to become zone blitz heavy?

Lots of ways. Question is, what are the coaches comfortable doing?

 

Can zone blitz for sure. Can run more of a 2-4 with more backers on the field instead of DL. Can play man coverage. Can leave a zone evacuated based on tendencies. Can throw caution to the wind and just send more than they can block based on protection schemes. 
 

A lot of ways but some require creativity. 
 

One way I wouldn’t do it is the way we usually do and stay in the four DL set and zone drop Chase and/or Sweat.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 hours ago, KDawg said:

The EDGE class is ridiculous. Going to be guys who are fringe first rounders in the third round this year. 

 

Agree.   

 

I've been diving into them harder the last couple of weeks and I feel almost ridiculous when I do it and start touting this or that guy because I like so many guys, too many, where it feels like I like everyone at that spot.     I recall a recent draft where I liked or loved so many receivers, that I didn't know where to stop -- this feels the same but at edge. 

 

I like the depth at edge even more so than CB-TE which are the other spots most believe are stacked in this draft.  This is the best draft for edge I can ever remember.  

 

Another reason to trade down, IMO you can find a good one in this draft in the third round.   I hate that our third rounder is so late.  Would love an early third rounder.