2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

Just now, Est.1974 said:

For me, Fuller is overrated and BSJ has suffered multiple concussions. I see a risk in depth.
 

That said, Rivera has never taken a corner in the first round. Not sure a Mayhew ever has either.

 

So the historical pattern suggests it won’t be CB 

 

See, I think Fuller is underappreciated.

 

St Juste is certainly an issue, but Holmes played well towards the end of his rookie campaign, we added Dantzler and Danny Johnson has been pretty decent for us and has only gotten better. 

 

If I were targetting a CB, I'd be looking for 2nd-3rd range and my eye on a St Juste clone... like Brents. 

[Est.1974]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

See, I think Fuller is underappreciated.

 

St Juste is certainly an issue, but Holmes played well towards the end of his rookie campaign, we added Dantzler and Danny Johnson has been pretty decent for us and has only gotten better. 

 

If I were targetting a CB, I'd be looking for 2nd-3rd range and my eye on a St Juste clone... like Brents. 

Yep Brents fits the mould. Ultimately that’s the route I think they probably go. Especially if we bail out of pick #16.

[Skinsinparadise]

Keim diving into the draft some.

 

A.  thinks its O line in round 1 likely,  tackle over guard if they pick at 16

 

B.  If they trade down, maybe guard.

 

C.  The 2nd most likely position in the first is CB

 

D.  He doesn't rule out TE but doesn't think its likely at 16, he knows though there are some they like

 

E.  They are having a proday with Brian Branch.    they like him but doesn't think at 16.  Suggested maybe if he drops.  Said they want a big nickle player in this draft.

 

F.  Won't take Hooker at 16, maybe if he drops to the 2nd and if they add a 2nd in a trade down where they have an extra pick.  Otherwise he thinks they take a Qb somewhere in the draft.

 

G. LB on the radar.  He's said in other podcasts it can still be a veteran, also based on other podcasts I doubts its the first two rounds.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

See, I think Fuller is underappreciated.

 

St Juste is certainly an issue, but Holmes played well towards the end of his rookie campaign, we added Dantzler and Danny Johnson has been pretty decent for us and has only gotten better. 

 

If I were targetting a CB, I'd be looking for 2nd-3rd range and my eye on a St Juste clone... like Brents. 

 

Holmes was benched for the last 4 games because he gave up a 100% catch rate against Falcons and Giants.

[skinzplay]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Keim diving into the draft some.

 

Glad you shared that, SIP. It was, as usual, a very insightful podcast by Keim.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

Holmes was benched for the last 4 games because he gave up a 100% catch rate against Falcons and Giants.

 

Yes he did. I'm not talking about stats. I'm talking movement skills, the way he moved. Any CB can give up receptions and yards. I'm going by a lot more than that. He was a rookie, remember. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

 

Glad you shared that, SIP. It was, as usual, a very insightful podcast by Keim.

 

We talk about pro day visits value versus not, etc.  The one thing is Keim is killer with this.  Not for the whole draft but the first round, sometimes 2nd.   As for the whole draft right around when it happens he gets good with that, too.  But the first round, sometimes 2nd, he's on it typically.

 

For example yeah they didn't bring in Dotson last year but who knew he was on their radar?  Keim of course.

 

So far, he hasn't been really giving names yet, its more about saying what they feel about the positions.  I am guessing the FO hasn't nailed down their target list, yet.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[skinzplay]

Dude is sooooo tuned in. Always knows more than he reports, which is one of 8 million reasons why his sources trust and are willing to openly share things with him. Eager to hear Monday's podcast with McElroy on the QB stuff.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is me reading tea leaves between Rivera's own comments and combining Keim.  Neither one flat out said it but its my interpretation of what they are thinking.  But I am hearing more signs of BPA than earlier but they are still not budging off O line.

 

A.  They really really want to trade down and pick up another pick in the 2nd or like last time 3rd-4th.

 

B.  Bieniemy might have changed their board some

 

C.  With that extra pick or two they want to use it as a wildcard, BPA, where anything goes but they have enough targeted postions that it fills a need too

 

D.  The only thing they are really locked in on is getting an O lineman early, they don't want to come out of this draft saying the board didn't fall their way at that spot -- they will find a way to get one, early and then more later

 

E.  Feels like even though they are saying BPA, there are positions they are targeting:  multiple O lineman, CB. nickle/safety, RB, Edge, the darkhorse is TE.   

 

F. They accept they might not get all of those spots and if so would find a veteran but won't be denied at O line, CB.

 

G.  To that same point, I'd be surprised if they take a WR

 

A point Keim made is even though some don't like the depth in this draft, the depth is good at their positions of need. 

 

10 hours ago, method man said:

They loved Tyler Smith and were hoping he’s drop to their 2nd round pick. They also supposedly liked Davis-Price a lot and would’ve supposedly taken him if he’d been there in the 3rd w the comp pick

 

Rivera referencing having 5 players in their bucket when they traded down that they wanted.   3 WRs and 2 O lineman.   It's easy to piece together Olave was one of them but he was taken.  Dotson obviously was another.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

That's music to my ears. Love it.

 

I wonder if the speed is just raw speed, or abnormal speed for the rest of their skillset? Like Darnell Washington at his size and blocking ability has the speed to be a seam threat. That's abnormal. But he's not a Vernon Davis blazer.

 

I think we aren't drafting Josh Doctson or Kelvin Harmon anymore.

 

It made me think of Pacheco.  I've mentioned on and off Keaton Mitchell, late round burner. 

 

They met with Israel Abankinda, fast player.

 

I saw they are meeting with Kuntz who is one of the faster TEs in the group.  @Going Commando mentioned he heard they have interest in Darnell Washington, they also met him at the combine -- he's really fast for his size, best shuttle time of that group.

 

Thinking speed -- Achane?  Would they take though a back in the 2nd, feels high based on other things that were said.   Chase Brown is fast.  Hull, Spears, 

 

But if I am thinking pure speed outside of the first round at RB -- it screams Achane.   But I'd still be surprised if they took him.

 

And then further in the draft this dude below seems obvious.  I watched hjim, explosive, the only thing I didn't like was he's wasn't the best at breaking tackles if the defense penetrates the line of scrimmage. 

 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[DWinzit]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

This is me reading tea leaves between Rivera's own comments and combining Keim.  Neither one flat out said it but its my interpretation of what they are thinking.  But I am hearing more signs of BPA than earlier but they are still not budging off O line.

 

A.  They really really want to trade down and pick up another pick in the 2nd or like last time 3rd-4th.

 

B.  Bieniemy might have changed their board some

 

C.  With that extra pick or two they want to use it as a wildcard, BPA

 

D.  The only thing they are really locked in on is getting an O lineman early, they don't want to come out of this draft saying the board didn't fall their way at at spot -- they will find a way to get one, early and then more later

 

E.  Feels like even though they are saying BPA, there are positions they are targeting:  multiple O lineman, CB. nickle/safety, RB, Edge, the darkhorse is TE.   

 

F. They accept they might net get all of those spots and if so would find a veteran but won't be denied at O line, CB.

 

G.  To that same point, I'd be surprised if they take a WR

 

A point Keim made is even though some don't like the depth in this draft, the depth is good at their positions of need. 

At OL feels like they want someone who can start at LG but move to starting LT or to C. That would give lots of flex, legit backups and lead to cuts and CAP relief.

 

I would think a dude like Spears is on EB's RB radar and LaPorta at TE. Both can contribute right away and Laporta allows a Thomas cut.

 

A DB like @KDawg Brents mention who I have brought up as a favorite of mine is a good fit

 

I could see them go Edge a little later.

 

I know I know, don't target players.

 

RR needs guys that fit and contribute right away. I normally look more towards how good the prospects will be in year two but not this year.

[Est.1974]

Been saying for a while now, we’ll take a couple of DBs over taking a couple of OL.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

At OL feels like they want someone who can start at LG but move to starting LT or to C. That would give lots of flex, legit backups and lead to cuts and CAP relief.

 

I would think a dude like Spears is on EB's RB radar and LaPorta at TE. Both can contribute right away and Laporta allows a Thomas cut.

 

A DB like @KDawg Brents mention who I have brought up as a favorite of mine is a good fit

 

I could see them go Edge a little later.

 

I know I know, don't target players.

 

RR needs guys that fit and contribute right away. I normally look more towards how good the prospects will be in year two but not this year.

 

I thought about Laporta.  He's a dude that they haven't poked around on from what I can tell yet.  But as its been said here that's not always a tell. 

 

I get the impression listening to Keim that he'd be surprised if they took a TE early but not shocked, especially in a trade down.

 

I suspect them poking arond on Darnell Washington, Brian Branch is if they fall to 47 or maybe if they trade down deep in the first.

[mhd24]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I thought about Laporta.  He's a dude that they haven't poked around on from what I can tell yet.  But as its been said here that's not always a tell. 

 

I get the impression listening to Keim that he'd be surprised if they took a TE early but not shocked, especially in a trade down.

 

I suspect them poking arond on Darnell Washington, Brian Branch is if they fall to 47 or maybe if they trade down deep in the first.

 

If they want versatility in an OL, than Tippman seems to be the guy to look at (in a trade down scenario).

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

If they want versatility in an OL, than Tippman seems to be the guy to look at (in a trade down scenario).

 

I think in the 2nd not the first. 

 

Him among others, like Avila.  Both can play guard and center.  Don't think they can play tackle albiet both dabbled with it.  I think JMS likely can play guard, he has the size for it.  

 

But feels like eveything being equal they'd prefer a tackle first who might be able to play guard for now as to the first roundner.

 

If I am guessing this, they take one of the tackles -- Wright, Harirson Dawand (Dawand wouldn't be suited to guard), Jones.  Then do something else, not O line, in the 2nd.  Then in the third-4th take a center.  

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Hendon Hooker is the elephant in the room.  There is a lot of smoke coming off that fire, kind of surprised at how little discussion that generated.  Having Bienemy go to his Pro Day and now having him come visit, those are huge signs of interest in him.

 

I've always liked his fit for us because I thought that we could red shirt him if need be and use the year to see if Sam Howell can play.  But if he truly is on track to be ready for training camp, that's very interesting.  That's Joe Burrowesque, and there are already a lot of easy points of comparison between Hooker and Burrow.

 

Feels weird, but I think Hooker's draft ceiling could be 16.  And I think the trade down talk puts us in Hooker range too.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Hendon Hooker is the elephant in the room.  There is a lot of smoke coming off that fire, kind of surprised at how little discussion that generated.  Having Bienemy go to his Pro Day and now having him come visit, those are huge signs of interest in him.

 

I've always liked his fit for us because I thought that we could red shirt him if need be and use the year to see if Sam Howell can play.  But if he truly is on track to be ready for training camp, that's very interesting.  That's Joe Burrowesque, and there are already a lot of easy points of comparison between Hooker and Burrow.

 

Feels weird, but I think Hooker's draft ceiling could be 16.  And I think the trade down talk puts us in Hooker range too.

 

I think Hooker goes ahead of Levis.

 

But I'm not sure that he's on the Commanders radar at 16. I actually think Seattle is a threat to trade back and get him. 

[Warhead36]

There are QBs drafted in 2020 who are younger than Hooker. And he's coming off injury. Hard hard hard pass. 

 

I think we're going CB at 16 unless the three tier 1 prospects(Gonzalez, Witherspoon, and JPJ) are all taken by then. In which case we'll take best OL available. 

[Andre The Giant]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

Hendon Hooker is the elephant in the room.  There is a lot of smoke coming off that fire, kind of surprised at how little discussion that generated.  Having Bienemy go to his Pro Day and now having him come visit, those are huge signs of interest in him.

 

I've always liked his fit for us because I thought that we could red shirt him if need be and use the year to see if Sam Howell can play.  But if he truly is on track to be ready for training camp, that's very interesting.  That's Joe Burrowesque, and there are already a lot of easy points of comparison between Hooker and Burrow.

 

Feels weird, but I think Hooker's draft ceiling could be 16.  And I think the trade down talk puts us in Hooker range too.

 

Keim addressed this too.

 

He said not at 16 but if he falls to the 2nd maybe.

 

If I had to pull one theme out of multiple Keim's podcasts and comments and combine that with other things -- feels like they really really want to trade down and wonder who falls later in the first round, and can they get an extra high pick with that trade down.  And with all of that they are looking at players who would fall in that bucket.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, Est.1974 said:

Been saying for a while now, we’ll take a couple of DBs over taking a couple of OL.

Been thinking about some of RR's recent quotes and i'm starting to think he grabs a playmaker in round one, possibly the top RB on the board or maybe a stud TE. If he truly feels like he's got one more shot to fix this then he might be leaning towards drafting for the short term over the long. With a young QB like Howell or even if it ends up being Brissett, having a stud running back is a great way to help them out and I don't know that RR is sold on BRob and Gibson being the tandem they think can do that for the QB's. Just my opinion but the state of this head coach makes me think this is gonna be an unusual draft in the 1st 3 rounds for the Redskins. 

[Warhead36]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Been thinking about some of RR's recent quotes and i'm starting to think he grabs a playmaker in round one, possibly the top RB on the board or maybe a stud TE. If he truly feels like he's got one more shot to fix this then he might be leaning towards drafting for the short term over the long. With a young QB like Howell or even if it ends up being Brissett, having a stud running back is a great way to help them out and I don't know that RR is sold on BRob and Gibson being the tandem they think can do that for the QB's. Just my opinion but the state of this head coach makes me think this is gonna be an unusual draft in the 1st 3 rounds for the Redskins. 

I don't see it. They like their young TEs so they won't go TE in the 1st I don't think. And I don't think Bienemy's system relies on super talented RBs. Pacheco was a 7th rounder last year who outplayed their previous 1st rounder Edwards-Helaire. 

 

I could see them addressing those positions in the middle rounds but not at #16.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

 

I think we're going CB at 16 unless the three tier 1 prospects(Gonzalez, Witherspoon, and JPJ) are all taken by then. In which case we'll take best OL available. 

 

Doesn't feel that way listening to Keim.  Seems like he feels they are thinking the reverse that.   CB feels like Plan B, not Plan A.  Having said that even if that's the thought today, we still got three weeks for sentiments to change.   

 

Logan Paulsen wonders what kind of fit Joey Porter would be here, a man corner without ball skills.  He would take Banks over him.  I would also take Banks over Porter too but to me the point is I think its debatable that there aren't other corners on a similar plane to Porter where they feel they have to take Porter at 16.  I think Gonalez and Witherspoon are tier 1.  And that next tier has a bunch of players in that bucket, Porter included.

 

Regardless, I trust Keim, he rarely lets me down, he seems at least for now to think O line is Plan A.  But yeah to your point, I do think if they don't go O line, its CB.  Just saying i don't get the vibe its CB first and then O line, feels like the reverse.

 

They aren't forcing a pick though at any position, get the vibe as I mentioned they want to trade back.   But I think the pool is big enough where they likely end up with O line early.  I think CB more likely in the 2nd-3rd.  But lol, if Keim changes his take so will I. 

 

But to me it makes sense, a PFF guy as i mentioned here went through their draft and favored O line in round 1 and CB in round 2 for reasons I put on this thread before. 

 

Basically the PFF guy thinks there will be a run on O line in the late first-early 2nd to put them in no mans land at that spot.  That's less likely to happen at CB.

 

Edited April 5, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

I like Banks a lot. I just feel like 16 is a wee bit too high for him. If we could move down to like the mid 20s he'd be perfect.  But it could be a Dotson type situation where we agonize over taking a guy a few picks too early and he ends up being really good and nobody really cares a year from now.

[FrFan]