Conn Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said: Personally I would've paid him a bit more if that's what it took. It is not going to be easy to replace his contributions It will be fine imo. His fantasy stats were nice in PPR leagues bc he caught a lot of balls regardless of yardage, but the reality is that short RB receptions—while a viable replacement for the running game in some offenses and an easy way to get playmakers the ball—are some of the least efficient and least valuable touches you can force. And some of the easiest to replace. I think we’ll be able to find someone who can catch 50+ balls if necessary—in fact Gibson should be that guy if we can get him more of a bruiser as a running mate. McKissic touched the ball a lot for us in a way that we hadn’t seen in a while—since peak healthy Chris Thompson, really. But those are not high value touches and good offenses don’t struggle to put a player in that role. I’ll concede that his real value was that he could reliably catch the ball down the field as a RB—but unfortunately that aspect of his skill-set was underused with Heinicke and most of his touches were, as I keep saying, low efficiency low value ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarpon75 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, actorguy1 said: Not worried about being excited now. I want to be excited on April 30th and in early September and in early January and ultimately in mid February. I'm ok with being underwhelmed in March Don't need to be overwhelmed but there have been opportunities to help fill-in some holes in the roster. Really feel like they need to fill some of these needs before the draft. Would like to see them do something at MLB for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 We didn't trade for Carson Wentz who has one of the best deep balls in the league to run the offense through dump-offs to JD McKissic. We need a bellcow back to keep AG fresh and establish the run while Wentz pushes the ball deep. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Conn said: I completely understand it because it has been a deeply miserable life being a fan of this team, but this reads as decades of compounded frustration to me—rather than a fair critique of where this specific roster is at this specific time. This is the best all-around roster we’ve had in a long time, the division is pretty weak, the conference is very weak, and we have the best QB we’ve had in ages. My passion for this team isn’t high, and I’m not thrilled to be defending it. The apathy is strong. The rebrand is bad, the ownership is catastrophic, the stadium is a dump, the fanbase is in tatters. But on the field, this is the most promising things have been in quite a while with an actual talented potential answer at QB (flawed or we wouldn’t have had a shot at him). It’s strange but true, even if this team refuses to do things “correctly” by tanking for a perfect QB prospect and doing a full rebuild, even if we haven’t made any big signings so far. This is fair. I'm not rooting against this working or outright saying this will definetly fail. I see similar thing to you, Wentz comes anywhere close to the guy he was before he got hurt the year Foles won the Super Bowl it makes Wentz the most talented QB we've ever had. That alone is reason for optimism, I get it, I really do. I'll still go to games, I just...I feel like I've seen this movie before in different ways. My concern will be building around him and Wentz also not self-imploding like he did in Philly and Indy. That is entirely possible considering our current cap situation and Wentz history up to this point. This could work, I hope it works. Very early in the thread for him being traded I said it will take at least until I see him throwing passes to get past everything you, I, and others have mentioned. Yea, this could work, and I hope it does. For folks calling this negativity, it's not, it's realism, and we should not bury that because "we're in a better situation then we've been in", that's what a lot of us did with Kirk. Not saying you specifically are saying that, but like i said in the thread announcing the trade, August can't get here soon enough for me. Edited March 16, 2022 by Renegade7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 7 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: We didn't trade for Carson Wentz who has one of the best deep balls in the league to run the offense through dump-offs to JD McKissic. We need a bellcow back to keep AG fresh and establish the run while Wentz pushes the ball deep. Good point....backs can be found, same as we found JD. He did a lot of good things for us though. Lets see who we get. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarpon75 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, Conn said: It will be fine imo. His fantasy stats were nice in PPR leagues bc he caught a lot of balls regardless of yardage, but the reality is that short RB receptions—while a viable replacement for the running game in some offenses and an easy way to get playmakers the ball—are some of the least efficient and least valuable touches you can force. And some of the easiest to replace. I think we’ll be able to find someone who can catch 50+ balls if necessary—in fact Gibson should be that guy if we can get him more of a bruiser as a running mate. McKissic touched the ball a lot for us in a way that we hadn’t seen in a while—since peak healthy Chris Thompson, really. But those are not high value touches and good offenses don’t struggle to put a player in that role. I’ll concede that his real value was that he could reliably catch the ball down the field as a RB—but unfortunately that aspect of his skill-set was underused with Heinicke and most of his touches were, as I keep saying, low efficiency low value ones. Have to disagree with you. I think he was very valuable and clutch when needed. This offense is not good enough that it doesn't need that type of player. Like you said Chris Thompson was the last player that Washington has who could do the things JDM can do. And as much as I liked Chris he was seldom healthy. JD led the league in catches out of the backfield last season before he was injured if I am not mistaken.I feel like for the amount of money it would have taken to keep him it is a mistake. 1 minute ago, kingdaddy said: Good point....backs can be found, same as we found JD. He did a lot of good things for us though. Lets see who we get. I don't know,when's the last time Washington found one before JD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: Good point....backs can be found, same as we found JD. He did a lot of good things for us though. Lets see who we get. A risky signing, but a guy I really like is Raheem Mostert. I can see him and Gibson being a great backfield combo. Mostert can bring it and shouldn't be expensive. He's coming off an injury but, if he's healthy I think he could help us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said: Have to disagree with you. I think he was very valuable and clutch when needed. This offense is not good enough that it doesn't need that type of player. Like you said Chris Thompson was the last player that Washington has who could do the things JDM can do. And as much as I liked Chris he was seldom healthy. JD led the league in catches out of the backfield last season before he was injured if I am not mistaken.I feel like for the amount of money it would have taken to keep him it is a mistake. I’m not disagreeing that he caught a ton of balls for us and got us 1st downs etc, we will need to find somebody to do what he did. Gibson should be that guy if we can bring in another RB. My point was that unless you have a game-breaker catching those balls that RBs are usually catching, the analytics show that they are low value touches, much more easily replaced in an offense than receiving production from other positions. We can replace that production without spending what he cost, the only time that isn’t true is when you have truly special YAC-creators at the position, which McKissic was not. Those touches and yards are more scheme-based than player-based, even if he was really good in that role. Edited March 16, 2022 by Conn 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebestian Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Lets do a reset here. I agree with MMills that after the new league year starts that they will have players ready to sign. MLB has to be addressed in my opinion. Vander Esch, A. Johnson, K. White? I would like K. White or A. Johnson. Next I think we have to look at O line for depth or a starter. I cannot get Norwell out of my head for some reason. I know he is getting up there in age but he graded really well last year and I have always liked him. I think WR can be addressed in the draft. #11 or a trade down scenario their is so much talent at that position. What do you guys thinks happen and what do you want to happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarpon75 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Conn said: I’m not disagreeing that he caught a ton of balls for us and got us 1st downs etc, we will need to find somebody to do what he did. Gibson should be that guy if we can bring in another RB. My point was that unless you have a game-breaker catching those balls that RBs are usually catching, the analytics show that they are low value touches, much more easily replaced in an offense than receiving production from other positions. We can replace that production without spending what he cost, the only time that isn’t true is when you have truly special YAC-creators at the position, which McKissic was not. Respectfully,just going to agree to disagree. Don't think it is as easy as you believe to replace that kind of production. Those very few truly special YAC guys you're talking are going to demand more than 4 million per year most likely. When's the last time Washington had one? Edited March 16, 2022 by Tarpon75 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: If anyone is feeling down about our future, just imagine what it's like to be a falcons fan. Ridley suspended, such a dearth of talent on both sides of the ball. Even if they trade for Watson, the loss of premium picks it would take would still ensure they are one of the worst teams for the next few years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilberMarshall Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Just here to say thank you to JD. Loved watching play for the team. Best of luck in Buffalo. Hope you end up in the Pro Bowl. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebestian Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 In terms of RB, are we talking about making Gibson the third down pass catching back, or just try to replace Mckissic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 Once all of our good rotation guys are signed by other teams, we'll finally be able to make the ES dream come true and sign Eddie Royal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 13 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said: Respectfully,just going to agree to disagree. Don't think it is as easy as you believe to replace that kind of production. Those very few truly special YAC guys you're talking are going to demand more than 4 million per year most likely. When's the last time Washington had one? I’m not really arguing that—it’s not really about McKissic specifically. When you run so much of your passing offense through RB receptions, every catch a RB has that isn’t in a WR’s hands has a significantly lower EPA. That’s just the reality of the numbers, over a large sample size. That’s what makes it a replaceable role even if McKissic, within that niche, was good (not elite, but good!). They just on the whole are not valuable touches unless you’re creating explosive plays beyond the norm, which again McKissic was not. In fact, while he was better in 2021, McKissic had a negative EPA on his receptions in 2020–Gibson was actually better. You could argue McKissic’s 2021 performance was actually the anomaly and outlier for his career and was the breakout season that caused him to get paid—those types of players are not always good investments regardless. But even more so when you’re talking about a role that is so dependent on scheme to accumulate so many low value touches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 We found JD on the scrap heap and made him what he has become. I think we can find someone to fill that role without spending $4MM a year. I thought he would be a great fit in Tampa, a definite upgrade over throwing the ball to Fournette but what a great spot for him in Buffalo. Good luck to him, the rest of the guys we lost I could care less. 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 With JD gone and since Wentz likes to throw to TE not running back . I would like to see us get a TE on a prove it deal. I think OJ Howard would be a good candidate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebestian Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 34 minutes ago, kingdaddy said: A risky signing, but a guy I really like is Raheem Mostert. I can see him and Gibson being a great backfield combo. Mostert can bring it and shouldn't be expensive. He's coming off an injury but, if he's healthy I think he could help us. Do you worry at all that he is a product of the Shanahan system outside stretch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Kev Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 4 hours ago, sebestian said: Are you guys comfortable with the receiving corps as currently constituted. I actually am and I really want Kyami to take that next step. I really like the move Indy made by hiring R. Wayne to be the WR coach. Does anyone know who the commanders WR coach is? If we can sign Carter and Samuel is healthy, and Dyami can take a step, its a solid group. Still love me some C. Watkins, but we are not drafting a WR before the 4th if that. What do you guys think? I wouldn't mind it if we brought in another vet or signed a mid to late round rookie, but I'm fairly happy with what we have. Terry is obviously a star, and I rate Samuel more than most others seem to. I think he's just been unlucky with injuries, rather than being injury-prone. Sims is an okay #3, and I like Humphries in the slot. Dyami Brown has been a disappointment so far and if he doesn't show anything in his second year then it will be concerning, but his main weapon is speed, so maybe Wentz can better exploit his talents than Henicke could. DeAndre Carter better get re-signed (mainly for his return abilities), it would be a big mistake to lose him IMO. Harmon and AGG are fairly good depth, and I've been rooting for baby-face Dax to show that he belongs in this league since we got him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I love McKissic but I won’t cry that he’s gone. He’s replaceable. And here’s a novel thought...maybe some of these guys don’t want to play here? I mean, I would kill for the red light “Men In Black” treatment to erase my fanhood. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 49 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said: I don't know,when's the last time Washington found one before JD? Alf Morris? Antonio Gibson? 17 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said: With JD gone and since Wentz likes to throw to TE not running back . I would like to see us get a TE on a prove it deal. I think OJ Howard would be a good candidate. I don’t know why people are getting this idea Wentz does not throw to backs. He had two RBs with 40 catches at the Colts last season. He does like to push the ball down the field and he will hold the ball and take sacks - but he uses his backs and TEs a lot as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 2 minutes ago, MartinC said: Alf Morris? Antonio Gibson? Also wasn't Chris Thompson doing exactly the same role? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoBob Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, London Kev said: Dyami Brown has been a disappointment so far and if he doesn't show anything in his second year then it will be concerning, but his main weapon is speed, so maybe Wentz can better exploit his talents than Henicke could. Recent history has biased many people's view about WRs - historically, most rookie WRs don't do much. Especially true when they are not first rounders. There are always exceptions, but I still have hope the Dyami can turn into a productive WR. Edited March 16, 2022 by DiscoBob 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebestian Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Commander Adama said: Also wasn't Chris Thompson doing exactly the same role? I agree. Quite frankly I think Thompson was better then JD. Also I think JD caught all those passes was more a reflection of TH inabilities, then it was that JD was that good. I mean I think JD is a good player but not to be thought of as a cant lose player. JMHO> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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