Curtis Samuel in 2022?

[Voice_of_Reason]

Samuel would be a $19M cap hit if he was cut.  The team has 13m of cap space.  19 > 13.  
 

In order to release him, they would have to create 6m of cal space to take a hit for absolutely no reason. So they would have to either cut other players or restructure somebody.

 

No other teams do this. At least for a position other than QB.  And even then it’s rare.  
 

They can get out of Samuel’s contract for $7.2m next year, and if they designate him as a June 1 cut it’s half that.

 

Its just plane stupid on steroids to cut a player which would put you OVER the cap with the dead cap hit.

They will release him next year if he can’t stay healthy.  

Let’s stop with the stupid please. 

[ntotoro]

1 hour ago, No Nonsense said:

Not a good analogy when it comes to Washington. Being like other teams might not be a bad idea. 

The team would be very close to being over the cap (if not actually over it) after a potential cut. It’s a stupid idea. They’ll need that space during the season, when injuries surely come. Cutting someone knowing your cap will be sacrificed is just dumb. No one does that short of cutting a player for disciplinary reasons.

Edited August 2, 2022 by ntotoro

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, ntotoro said:

The team would be very close to being over the cap (if not actually over it) after a potential cut. It’s a stupid idea. They’ll need that space during the season, when injuries surely come. Cutting someone knowing your cap will be sacrificed is just dumb. No one does that short of cutting a player for disciplinary reasons.

You're right. 

 

They would be $6m over the cap if they cut Samuel.  So in order to cut Samuel, they would have to clear $6m of space by either cutting or restructuring other players.

 

Like I said above, let's stop with the stupid.   I get the frustration, but he's not going anywhere this year.  If he can't stay healthy, they would cut him next off-season.  Most likely they would designate him as a June 1st cut, and it would be a $3.7m. cap hit in 2023 and 2024 to get rid of him, which is manageable.  (If they just out-right released him, it would be a $7.2m hit against the 2023 cap.  Which also isn't terrible.  But I think they will want as much cap room as they can get in 2023. They have Curl, Holcomb, Payne all up for new contracts, as well as probably needing to do a deal with Sweat if they want to keep him.  

[SkinsFTW]

They better be hoping that those 2 former Panther OL dudes turn out to be studs because otherwise this BS about signing former Rivera players is going to look at least as bad as the previous BS with signing former Bucs. I get why they do it, but it never seems to work out. 

[justice98]

I haven't heard much about Dyami Brown so far. Is he making any impression at all, good or bad?  

[RFK Lives]

They were talking about Samuel this morning on the Junkies.  

 

The question to the fans if they were in and out on Samuel for 2022.  I think maybe the question should be is Samuel in?

 

How many times have we seen a player with proven talent on another team, come here to only get nicked up and never see the field consistently?  This team doesn't have the herd mentality or winning pedigree in the locker room to correct it meaning to get players to train and heal correctly and sometimes play hurt if it's not a risk to exacerbate the injury.

 

It's just my two cents, I am not saying Curtis Samuel was not hurt but it really feels like we have seen this movie time and time again.  

Edited August 2, 2022 by RFK Lives

[NickyJ]

Maybe Curtis has homesickness of the knees?

[Koolblue13]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

 

Its just plane stupid . 

[CobraCommander]

28 minutes ago, RFK Lives said:

They were talking about Samuel this morning on the Junkies.  

 

The question to the fans if they were in and out on Samuel for 2022.  I think maybe the question should be is Samuel in?

 

How many times have we seen a player with proven talent on another team, come here to only get nicked up and never see the field consistently?  This team doesn't have the herd mentality or winning pedigree in the locker room to correct it meaning to get players to train and heal correctly and sometimes play hurt if it's not a risk to exacerbate the injury.

 

It's just my two cents, I am not saying Curtis Samuel was not hurt but it really feels like we have seen this movie time and time again.  

It would've helped to hire a head athletic trainer that wasn't a pill pushing felon. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

It would've helped to hire a head athletic trainer that wasn't a pill pushing felon. 

You know, the lack of a head athletic trainer last year does not get enough play. I think that was an issue.  

 

 Though, about whatshisname, I don't think he's been charged with anything yet.  It's been a REALLY long time with no word.  There was some reporting at one point he was being singled out unfairly, and nothing has come of any of the allegations, as far as I know.  It's going on almost a year with no information, unless I missed something.  

 

Though the team did move on and hired another head athletic trainer for this year, so there is somebody there managing this.  And by all accounts, he is extremely well respected.

[CobraCommander]

23 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know, the lack of a head athletic trainer last year does not get enough play. I think that was an issue.  

 

 Though, about whatshisname, I don't think he's been charged with anything yet.  It's been a REALLY long time with no word.  There was some reporting at one point he was being singled out unfairly, and nothing has come of any of the allegations, as far as I know.  It's going on almost a year with no information, unless I missed something.  

 

Though the team did move on and hired another head athletic trainer for this year, so there is somebody there managing this.  And by all accounts, he is extremely well respected.

I don't think the DEA knocks down your door without serious allegations and evidence very often. If it were the local sheriffs office working on some suspect information I would understand.

[Voice_of_Reason]

58 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

They better be hoping that those 2 former Panther OL dudes turn out to be studs because otherwise this BS about signing former Rivera players is going to look at least as bad as the previous BS with signing former Bucs. I get why they do it, but it never seems to work out. 

Yeah, I think the Companthers thing is a bit over-played. I think it was a thing early on, but I don't think it's really a thing anymore.  I think the media likes to keep regurgitating "ComPanthers" and poke fun at it, and fans have just sortof accepted there are a bunch of former Panthers on the team.  But it's really not true.  

 

If you look at the roster now, in year three, there are what, 3 former panthers who played with Ron which might have significant roles, and 2 of them are new this year?  Samuel, Norwell and Turner? The other two I can think of are Efe Obada (backup DL) and Taylor Heinicke (backup QB), who was signed as an emergency QB in December 2020.  I'll grant you, it's basically the same coaching staff, but if you look at the roster, maybe there are a few other depth guys who I can't even think of, but I believe those are the only folks who are expected to actually make the team.   

 

And if Rouiller is healthy, then Turner and Schweitzer are probably battling for one of the guard spots, so it might just be 2 of that group who are starters.  

 

There were a whole bunch of depth/ST guys they brought in for year one, which I had no problem with.  The roster was void of depth and talent just about everywhere, and they brought in low-cost guys they knew to fill out roster spots 40-53 and who knew what Ron expected.  Whatever.  Most of them are gone.  Until Samuel, probably the most significant guy they brought in from the Panthers was Kyle Allen, who they traded a 5th for. And he's gone. And I was fine with that also, they traded a 5th for a backup who knew the system.  TH doesn't count, he was signed mid-season as an emergency QB off his sister's couch.  

 

I posted this before, but the vast majority of the players on the roster at this point, either starters or significant backups, are draft picks.  A few low-end FAs have popped as well.  They have, by my count, had 3 "big name" signings: Wentz, Samuel and WJIII.  If you want to put Fuller in that category from 2020, ok, fine.  

 

The one spot on the team now which has more FAs than draft picks is OL.  And they still have 2 starting OL they drafted, with Cosmi and Rouiller.   

Notable Starters/Backups who have been drafted:

QB: Howell

RB: Gibson, Robinson 

WR: McLaurin, Dotson, D.Brown, Cam Sims, (and a whole bunch of depth guys). I think the only FA who would make the team is Samuel

OL: Cosmi, Rouiller, Charles, Larsen, Ismael

DL: Young, Sweat, Allen, Payne, Mathis, Several depth guys (Bradley-King, Rotimi, James Smith-Williams, etc.)

LB: Holcomb, Davis, Hudson, 

CB: St. Juste, Fuller (kindof?), Danny Johnson, 

Safety: Kam Curl, Forrest, Butler, Reeves

Special Teams: THE Cheeseman (long snapper)

 

I mean, that's A LOT of draft picks who are expected to either start or be significant contributors.  

 

The significant FA/Trades:

Wentz (From Colts)

Logan Thomas (From Lions)

McKissic (From Lions)

Lucas/Leno (From Bears)

Samuel (From Panthers)

WJIII (From Bengals)

Norwell/Turner (From other places, but previously with Ron in Carolina)

McCain (From Dolphins)

 

Am I missing somebody important? 

 

The former Panthers are TH (if you want to count him), Samuel, Norwell, Turner and Efe Obada?  Are there others? Obada is a backup, it's possible Turner is a backup to Schweitzer... There was a guy they signed as a kick returner who played for the Panthers last year, but Ron wasn't there, I can't remember his name.  

 

Samuel would be the big swing-and-a-miss.  And I don't know if I would care that he was a former Panther or not.  If he's not healthy, it would just be a bad signing.  

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

I don't think the DEA knocks down your door without serious allegations and evidence very often. If it were the local sheriffs office working on some suspect information I would understand.

Sure, but still, nothing has come of it and it's been almost a year.  It's impossible to know what the truth is here until some conclusion.  I'm just saying, I heard he possible rubbed some folks the wrong way and became targeted in some way.  

 

Regardless, Ron certainly didn't know about this, and Ron trusted him with his cancer treatment, so the two men are pretty close.  

 

I am just waiting for some conclusion to the story.  

 

Regardless of all of that, however, not having a head athletic trainer, and I think one of the other staffers got caught up in it also, was a big loss last year.

 

[TheShredder]

9 hours ago, justice98 said:

I haven't heard much about Dyami Brown so far. Is he making any impression at all, good or bad?  

It's practice. Just put the pads on, so now at least the match ups have meaning. Think the last report was Dyami has made a few catches deep, but follows it up with a drop later. Kinda 50/50 moving into padded sessions. We'll see a lot of Dyami in preseason (only a week and a half).

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

It's practice. Just put the pads on, so now at least the match ups have meaning. Think the last report was Dyami has made a few catches deep, but follows it up with a drop later. Kinda 50/50 moving into padded sessions. We'll see a lot of Dyami in preseason (only a week and a half).

He seemed to have a good practice today.  
 

He’s a guy who will greatly benefit from game planning.  Wheee Turner is going to get him on a LB by scheme and formation operating from the slot.  

[Conn]

Edit: Entirely the wrong thread 🤦‍♂️

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Conn

[DiscoBob]

How's it groining Curtis?

[Kurd Cudins]

On 8/1/2022 at 9:41 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Samuel would be a $19M cap hit if he was cut.  The team has 13m of cap space.  19 > 13.  
 

In order to release him, they would have to create 6m of cal space to take a hit for absolutely no reason. So they would have to either cut other players or restructure somebody.

 

No other teams do this. At least for a position other than QB.  And even then it’s rare.  
 

They can get out of Samuel’s contract for $7.2m next year, and if they designate him as a June 1 cut it’s half that.

 

Its just plane stupid on steroids to cut a player which would put you OVER the cap with the dead cap hit.

They will release him next year if he can’t stay healthy.  

Let’s stop with the stupid please. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

7 minutes ago, Kurd Cudins said:

Then how does it work?

[Koolblue13]

I'm totally cool bringing Curtis back slow and carefully. When healthy, dudes an insane weapon. Not a lot, if any, WRs that can do what Samuel's can do and especially not with his suddenness and speed.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Samuel doesn’t have an injury history. I expect him to ball out this season. The shade thrown at him is so over the top.

 

Side note: The fact that Ron said “they probably brought him back too soon” last year was (IMO) a coach sticking up for his player. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t really care. It’s these kinds of little things that really win over a locker room. I love RR. Hope he can get this done. 

[kingdaddy]

16 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Samuel doesn’t have an injury history. I expect him to ball out this season. The shade thrown at him is so over the top.

 

Side note: The fact that Ron said “they probably brought him back too soon” last year was (IMO) a coach sticking up for his player. Whether it’s true or not, I don’t really care. It’s these kinds of little things that really win over a locker room. I love RR. Hope he can get this done. 

Curtis could be our Deebo Samuel if we use him to carry the ball some. Lots of ways this offense can beat you if the OC gets creative.

[NickyJ]

32 minutes ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Samuel doesn’t have an injury history. I expect him to ball out this season. The shade thrown at him is so over the top.

Last year is his injury history. He touched the ball 10 times at $1.3 million per touch. If he had been put on IR and we swallowed the pill whole, it would have been less bitter than the drip drip drip of "He might play", "He's almost healthy", "Just imagine what we'll do when he's 100%", "He's questionable", "He's doubtful", and "Not this week."

 

Is it his fault that's he's always just a little too injured to play? No, not really. Is it my fault or other fans' that we can't get ourselves lathered up watching another team's highlights from 2 years ago, waiting for the second half of his contract because the first half bombed?

 

This is year two of three. If he misses half the season, it truly is half his contract spent riding pine saying "maybe later".

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

45 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

This is year two of three. If he misses half the season, it truly is half his contract spent riding pine saying "maybe later".

I’m not asking anybody on here to get lathered up. Seems like an awful idea. 😆

 

I’m just pointing out that it’s unfair to treat him like Malcolmb Kelly part two when the guy doesn’t have an injury history prior to last season.

 

Lots of ifs in your above statement. Why is everyone assuming he’s gonna miss half the season? I think it’s misguided and I look forward to all the crow this place will refuse to eat. 🍻

[NickyJ]

The reasons why I expect him to miss more time is because he's missed practice time already, and Ron himself saying that "the ultimate goal is really the regular season". It gives me the impression that he's too fragile to risk in preseason. Too fragile to give any real game time to work with Wentz against actual opponents in pads. It reeks of Jordan Reed, but without the prolific results in the moments he did play. I want to be proven wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited August 3, 2022 by NickyJ