Next Day Thread: Dallas and their Benches vs. WFT

[zCommander]

What the hell????

 

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, zskins said:

What the hell????

 

 

 

I’m pretty sure trainers carry scissors for taping. Probably fell off a trainers belt. That’s all. 

[Dan T.]

 

Here's video.  Thank goodness for his eagle eyes...

[No Nonsense]

23 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Clearly not. I'm no idiot, been here a long time and I coach football.

 

Why aren't we simplifying the game for Taylor when there's the kind of pass rush we saw yesterday , or is he doing it to himself? I'll never understand why we continued to have him sit in the pocket and get blasted all day. Move the pocket, quick passing game, hot route to a back or TE... I dont get it

 

I remembered why I hardly post after reading this and all of your other smart ass replies... tough loss after high hopes yesterday I guess. I'll go back to reading and searching for answers after another letdown. 

I hate it when people use those types of arguments too. They know no one is asking Taylor to be Rodgers. 

[just654]

1 hour ago, MrJL said:

 

I agree.  I can only assume that the official considers it to be plant leg only and since he basically contacted his entire body he couldn't be said to just get the plant leg

My wife who only started watching football when she met me and really doesnt pay attention to the games. Saw that and was like that has to be 15 yards. First time I ever saw her get loud about a call. It was kinda a proud moment

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

Here's video.  Thank goodness for his eagle eyes...

Cut it out......

 

maybe it was his subtle way of begging Washington to cut him? 
 

maybe he meant they just couldn’t cut it out there yesterday. 
 

or he was telling fox to cut to commercial?

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Cooleyfan1993

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

13 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

It is, thats right.

though I didnt go into yesterday thinking our O was "that" beat up. Missing Thomas and McKissic at the start, plus some O Line injuries that we've played through during this stretch. Add what should be a healthier 30mil receiver and I had hopes of some offensive output yesterday. The late injuries to T Mac and Larsen, and Heine arent what I'm talking about. Dallas' D really got a lot healthier at the wrong time for us, you can see things like the screen game where it's just one assignment or missed cut block away from something big. Everything went wrong yesterday and we still had a shot. This one stings

It definitely sucks.  It's rather sobering to watch Dallas guarantee victory, bring their own benches, and go up 24-zippy.

 

I guess for me though, I knew going into it that we were missing pieces, some very key pieces and Dallas was getting healthy.  Dallas has a QB they have to decide to pay a top of market deal or not and we have an undrafted FA at QB.  It was a very tall task any way we chop it up.  

[DEASkins]

35 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

How do you propose we do that without getting better players? You think the Chiefs will lend us Mahomes and the Saints lend us Kamara and the Cardinals lend us Hopkins etc. etc.?

My guess is that the coaching staff will use the players they currently have on the team to administer the butt whooping Dallas has coming. The majority of elite competitors don't take well to being disrespected to the degree that Dallas handed it out. I imagine Wash will do it with class regardless of who is healthy enough to lace up their cleats

[method man]

Not sure if it'll make a difference but the team should get Cosmi, McKissic, Sweat, JSW and Toohill back for the next go around

[dyst]

Jamin Davis SUCKS. That’s not to say be can’t get better but its safe to say he was an awful pick “so far”. 

[CjSuAvE22]

Why were those stupid cowboy benches even allowed in the stadium did jerry give dan an under the table check?

[zCommander]

8 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Why were those stupid cowboy benches even allowed in the stadium did jerry give dan an under the table check?

 

They asked the FO for permission and they were given that permission. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

6 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Why were those stupid cowboy benches even allowed in the stadium did jerry give dan an under the table check?

Apparently Seattle complained that our sideline bench heaters on the visiting sideline kept going in and out, and they clued Dallas in on that (for what reason, i dont know), and it’s a league rule that visiting teams can have control over their own sideline. Nobody has ever brought their own benches to an away game though, until yesterday 

[Burgold]

5 hours ago, method man said:

 

How is 15 carries a game being a battering ram? He wasn't even top 25 in touches per game last year. 

I think it's not just the number of carries, but the type of carries. So often, they want Gibson to charge through the center of the line where he's going to get more of the big hits. In fact, they openly talk about wanting him to fall in love with the four yard gain or the three yards and a cloud of dust gain.

 

I'm not saying that's wrong. Sometimes, you have to take what's there versus looking for the big play and risk losing yards, but it sort of reminds me of Clinton Portis. I remember when Portis came here he was billed as a home run threat. Somehow, with us, he became Eddie George or John Riggins. I always wondered what happened to the big play ability. I sometimes wonder that about Gibson, too. He's supposed to have this incredible speed, but we rarely see it in action.

[Rex Tomb]

43 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Cut it out......

 

maybe it was his subtle way of begging Washington to cut him? 
 

maybe he meant they just couldn’t cut it out there yesterday. 
 

or he was telling fox to cut to commercial?

 

[Wildbunny]

48 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I’m pretty sure trainers carry scissors for taping. Probably fell off a trainers belt. That’s all. 

Seems like that happen in a Raiders' game too.

 

Anyway, that's still a problem as it could lead a player to serious injury.

[Cooleyfan1993]

3 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Seems like that happen in a Raiders' game too.

 

Anyway, that's still a problem as it could lead a player to serious injury.

It also happened in a couple of other non Washington games. And from what I’ve read on twitter, the scissors fell off and Heinicke picked them up right away. It isn’t as if it was just sitting there on the field for minutes without anyone noticing. This is a non story 

Edited December 13, 2021 by Cooleyfan1993

[DEASkins]

36 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Why were those stupid cowboy benches even allowed in the stadium did jerry give dan an under the table check?

Like the other posters mentioned the visiting team is responsible for the benches on their sideline and so Dallas took that principle to an extreme level and flew their own in. If Daniel Snyder wasn't such a degenerate owner it would be somewhat humorous that the opposing team had to deal with defective bench technology on the visitors side of the field, but in this case it just makes him look even more like a cheap ****

Edited December 13, 2021 by DEASkins

[Wildbunny]

3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

It also happened in a couple of other non Washington games. And from what I’ve read on twitter, the scissors fell off and Heinicke picked them up right away. It isn’t as if it was just sitting there on the field for minutes without anyone noticing. This is a non story 

It is a non story until it is. That's how it works usually.

 

Back to the game, word out there is that Curtis Samuel and Terry McLaurin played some snaps. They've been missing in action all day long that's weird like we aren't go throw their way at all...

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Clearly not. I'm no idiot, been here a long time and I coach football.

 

Why aren't we simplifying the game for Taylor when there's the kind of pass rush we saw yesterday , or is he doing it to himself? I'll never understand why we continued to have him sit in the pocket and get blasted all day. Move the pocket, quick passing game, hot route to a back or TE... I dont get it

 

I remembered why I hardly post after reading this and all of your other smart ass replies... tough loss after high hopes yesterday I guess. I'll go back to reading and searching for answers after another letdown. 

 

This is something I've been trying to wrap my head around as well. Does our playbook not have hot reads? Do we not have any way to beat it when a team brings extra guys like Dallas was doing all day yesterday?

 

If we do have that baked into the system, why isn't Heinicke hitting them? Is he not seeing the pressure pre-snap? Is he not adjusting protections properly? Is he just not looking at his hot for some odd reason...trying to do too much and not wanting the quick stuff?

 

IIRC Rivera noted yesterday in his post-game presser that Heinicke was holding the ball too long, so clearly we're not the only ones who see it.

[Skinsfan1311]

4 hours ago, max21 said:

How bad were the cowboys fans? I met some cool Cowboys fans in 2012 before the night game when we won the NFC East, we even tailgated with a few. The Eagles fans are the ones that actually bothered me 

Oh....the Dallass fans weren't any more, or less, obnoxious as usual.

It just sucks that there were so many.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Koolblue13]

7 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

This is something I've been trying to wrap my head around as well. Does our playbook not have hot reads? Do we not have any way to beat it when a team brings extra guys like Dallas was doing all day yesterday?

 

If we do have that baked into the system, why isn't Heinicke hitting them? Is he not seeing the pressure pre-snap? Is he not adjusting protections properly? Is he just not looking at his hot for some odd reason...trying to do too much and not wanting the quick stuff?

 

IIRC Rivera noted yesterday in his post-game presser that Heinicke was holding the ball too long, so clearly we're not the only ones who see it.

He obviously isn't seeing them. When Dallas has 5 down linemen and Parsons in the A gap and you either dont audible or you expect a RB to stop and hold him coming unchecked and dont just make a quick throw, theres a problem. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Hopefully we got bodies for next week on the d line for the Eagles game. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

This is the same old song and dance every week we lose though.  Every time we lose the OC was supposed to simplify the game for Taylor, and every time we lose the All 22 shows there was plenty out there to be had and it just didn't happen.  As a coach, you should know how hard it is to game plan your beat up, short handed, less talented team to win a ball game.

I actually disagree that we need to simplify the game for TH.  There are things I think he can do, things he can't, and he can read a defense fairly well.  I agree, I don't think there's any reason to simplify anything.  

 

(The rest of this is not directed at the quote or poster I quoted.)

 

Look, I have been the guy who's been on Turner and the play calling even during the winning streak.  In 2 of the games we won, we scored 17 points.  I've been screaming for weeks that playing this style of offense works great if you are converting 3rd downs, but you give yourself almost no margin for error.  

 

Here's the thing with this offense with TH at QB: He HAS to be 100% on-time and make the right read all the time, or the whole thing falls apart.  He can't be late with a throw, he can't double clutch.  He has to be 100% on-time.  Because he is SO limited from an arm strength perspective, he doesn't have the luxury to make up for a late decision.

 

They went into the game trying to do the same thing they have been doing successfully: Run the snot out of the ball, convert 3rd downs, dominate TOP, and win the game. The WFT knew this, all the educated fans knew this, and Dallas knew this.  The thing is, Dallas knew how to stop it also.   I put my drive summary chart below.  It wasn't until the 7th drive of the game, when they were trailing 24-0, when they started to change things up a bit, and started to have a little more success.  

 

In the first 6 drives, when they were still in the "run the hell out of the ball and convert 3rd downs" mode, they had 10 first downs. Gibson ran on 6 of them for 8 total yards.  The best run on first down was the Kyle Allen 11 yard run.  They also ran on 6 consecutive first downs.   That's a recipe for disaster.  

 

You don't think Dallas KNEW they were going to do this?  Of course they did.  McCarthy might be an absolute fool, but Dan Quinn isn't.  They knew they could play almost entirely run on first down, and then bring HUGE pressure on 2nd and 3rd and long, play tight up on the receivers, and blow up the entire offensive operation.  Granted, not every team CAN do this, they have a lot of good playmakers up-front which allows them to do it.  

 

In hindsight, what they needed to do is find a way to get Dallas out of it's defensive plan.  Now, the question is, does this version of the WFT offense have the horses to do that?  I dunno.  TH can't throw into tight windows, only 1 receiver can get separation, McKissic was out, Seals-Jones as in his first game back... Maybe not?  But what frustrates me is they didn't really even try.  

 

I mean, try anything.  Run some Read-Option on first down.  Or a jet sweep.  Or maybe even a trick play.  Or a simple rollout.  Mis-direction run.  I'm not asking for the Greatest Show on Turf Rams, or an Air Raid offense, or anything like that.  

 

But by the time they started to do anything other than hand the ball to Gibson for 1 yard on first down, they were down 24-0.  

 

I'm actually starting to think they don't believe TH can run "quick game," at least outside the numbers, where you substitute a short pass for a run.  Things like quick WR screens, quick slants, comebacks, curls, just stuff outside the numbers.  The thing is, if you're late or slow on any of those throws, it can become a disaster very quickly, because there is NOBODY between the receiver and the end-zone.  If a defender gets a jump on the ball, it's going the other way for points  They try some regular screens, which often get blown up.  But they really don't use a lot of quick game with TH. They actually did some of it with Alex Smith last year, so I know it's in the playbook.  I don't know why they don't use it.  

 

Anyway, for those of you who are still with me, here's the drive chart.  

1st drive: 

1st-down: Completion for 14 yards!

1st-down: Gibson for 2, 2nd-down, incomplete, penalty on 3rd and 8, incomplete on 3rd and 13.  

 

2nd drive:

1st-down: Gibson for 0 yards. 2nd-down: incomplete, 3rd down was the R. Gregory interception on 3rd and 10.  

 

3rd drive:

1st-down: Gibson for 1 yard.  2nd down was incomplete (heavy rush), 3rd down was also incomplete, but they got the unsportsmanlike penalty to give them a 1st.

1st-down: Gibson for 3 yards.  2nd down was an incompletion, 3rd was a short completion to Hump, and 4th was the fumble returned for a TD.

 

(FYI, now they're down 18-0)

 

4th drive

1st-down: (Allen in for this play). I don't know if this was a designed run or not, but Allen carried for 11 yards

1st-down: TH back in. Gibson for 2 yards.  2nd down was incomplete, 3rd down TH was sacked.  

 

5th drive

1st-down: Incomplete pass to Curtis Samuel. 2nd Down - Gibson for 4, 3rd down Incomplete.

 

(Now down 21-0)

6th drive

1st down: TH scrambles for 6. 2nd down, GIbby for 5. (I think this is the first second down they converted into a first down the entire game.)

1st down: Gibson for 0.  2nd was the OPI on Bates, then 2nd and 20 was incomplete (massively underthrown) to McLaurin, then incomplete on 3rd, and punt.

 

7th drive was the knee at the end of the half. 

 

(Now down 24-0)

8th drive: 

1st down: TH incomplete.  2nd: Incomplete.  3rd and 10, complete to Hump! for a first down!.  

1st down: TH complete to Carter for 2 yards.  2nd TH complete to Hump for 3 yards.  3rd down, TH Incomplete to McLaurin, massively under-thrown, and McLaurin is hurt.  http://www.sadtrombone.com

 

9th drive:

1st Down: TH incomplete. 2nd - 10: Gibson (best run of the game) for 13 yards.  I think this is the second second down they converted to a first down.  We're in the 3rd quarter.

1st Down: TH complete to Bates for 19! (Now we're rolling)

1st Down: Gibbs for 6. (First positive 1st-down run of the game for him.  This was at 7:47 of the second half.).  2nd down TH to Patterson for 9.

1st Down: TH deep to Cam Sims for a TD. 2 point conversion good.

 

10th Drive:

1st Down:  TH pass to Gibson for -1 yard.  ( I honestly don't remember this play at all. 2nd Down was the killer. Gibson fumbles.  

 

(Now down 27-8)

11th Drive:

1st down: TH to Patterson for no gain.  But wait! HOLDING.  On 1st and 20 they run Patterson for 5.  2nd: TH was sacked.  3rd.  Complete to Carter for 10.

 

12th drive;

1st down: TH sacked. He's hurt and leaves the game. 2nd Down: Allen incomplete.  3rd is a short completion and off-setting taunting penalties.  

 

13th drive: 

1st down: Patterson for 12. (I think the Cowboys really thought this was garbage time.  Gibson was out of the game.  Allen was in the game.  Whatever.)

1st down: Allen incomplete.  2nd: Patterson for 8.  3rd: Patterson for 4

1st down: Allen incomplete. 2nd: complete to Cam Sims for 19

1st  down: Allen incomplete: 2nd JWilliams for 6. 3rd: Allen completes to Williams for 19 yards

1st and Goal: JWilliams for 7 yards, 2nd: JWilliams for 2 yards, 3rd: Allen up the middle for 1, 4th JWilliams in for the TD.

 

** This was a remarkable drive because they overcame 3 consecutive incomplete passes on 1st down.  

 

It's now 27-20 because McCarthy wanted to run up the score and Dak threw a pick-6.  

 

14th drive:

1st down: Allen complete to Cam Sims 2nd Down, CRUSHING drop by Carter deep down the field.  3rd down was the fumble by Allen to end the game.  

 

My general comentary is it took them being down by 24 to figure out the plan wasn't working, and they needed to change it up.  By the time they did, it was really too late.  

 

I just don't think this offense should run through Gibson.  I think it should run through the QB distributing the ball to:

 

Gibson

McLaurin

McKissic

Samuel

Carter

Brown

Cam Sims

RSJ

Bates

 

The plan should be to get each of these guys (at least those who are available) multiple touches per game, and not be predictable.  You can still run the ball, but do it creatively and not with Gibson all the time. If it were me, I'd target Gibson, McKissic and Patterson to have ~8 carries each a game, and get 6 carries by WRs.  That's 30 rushes total.  That should be more than enough to keep @TryTheBeal! happy.

 

Then spread the ball around.  

 

If you're diverse, you can continue to play the same style of "keep away" offense, but in a way that forces the defense to cover more guys and not key on 1 guy.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Voice_of_Reason