Next Day Thread: Dallas and their Benches vs. WFT

[KDawg]

-Taylor Heinicke was horrendous. A good portion of the game he was under constant duress. Dallas' gameplan looked simple on it's surface: jam the receivers and bring heat. Heinicke was under constant pressure in the first half and then when he wasn't, and had plenty of time, he just couldn't throw the ball in position for our receivers. Maybe he was banged up, maybe he was hurt, but the combination of the pressure coming at him and his own version of Sam Darnold's "I'm seeing ghosts" was detrimental. Kyle Allen came in and threw one really, really beautiful ball to DeAndre Carter down the sideline, which he dropped. Some liked the out ball in the end zone, but I think it was a bit outside it's target point. But beyond the one throw we saw why it's Heinicke and not him, despite the fact Allen has a better arm: He has no escapability. That fumble (which I agree was a fumble, the ball went more up than out and came out of his hand before the wrist seemed to snap) was not a good look.

 

-The offensive line looked confused and bewildered all day. Lack of running lanes and pass protection. They had some good moments in between and I understand they are working from a decimated unit. But games where the defense is bringing junk and jamming receivers are the games that are won when a good offensive line takes over and asserts dominance. This OL, yesterday, didn't assert anything.

 

-Cam Sims would have gotten more than a single star if he had more playing time/chances yesterday. That touchdown reception was a thing of beauty. The rest of the receivers were apparently on the field. Somewhere.

 

-Antonio Gibson's vision is lacking and he is clearly worn down. He doesn't have the explosion he has had in the past. They are putting too much on him (stop me if you've heard that before). 3.6 yards per carry yesterday. I like Gibson and think he is a key to this franchise's near future, but not if they keep throwing him into a wall repeatedly and asking him to find a seam. I do like Jonathan WIlliams (for now) and think he's a hard nose runner but he's not going to do much to change the running game long term. We need a bellcow.

 

-Daron Payne and Jon Allen continue to be dominant.

 

-Landon Collins has been an issue on this defense the last two seasons. Up until the last few weeks. He has been absolutely phenomenal. He had two sacks and a pick yesterday. I truly think Collins' position change was a game changer for him. He's a guy that went from "I can't wait until he's gone" to "please don't leave us" real quick. 

 

-Cole Holcomb has an up and down tenure. He doesn't fill will downhill all the time and when he does he seems to miss tackles in the backfield routinely. But I think he had the best game of his career yesterday. That pick six was the biggest play at the biggest time for us. (Dallas fans have to be pissed about them throwing there). 

 

-Kam Curl is the surest tackler on the team and he is literally all over the field all game long. 

 

-Coverage breakdowns were an issue yesterday. It just seemed like the whole team was pressing. The D almost reverted but they kept their heads in it and I think played a good game overall. 

 

-Montez Sweat's absence, and the possibility (unconfirmed) that he was responsible for Toohill and Smith-Williams absence, is just another hit on the greatest sack duo of all time. Sweat and Young need this season to end immediately and to get a reset. I would be shopping both this offseason and listening strongly.

 

-Speaking of the greatest sack duo of all time: Micah Parsons (who I am on record not wanting due to his character issues but not his play) had a better statline than Young by halftime, if not sooner. I don't mean season vs. season stats, obviously. I mean Parsons 1 game vs. Young's season. Again, Young needs a reset button on this season. Hopefully he returns to the lineup more willing to fit within a scheme and hungry again. He has the tools and talent to be fantastic. 

 

Awards:

 

*** - Cole Holcomb/Landon Collins

** - Daron Payne/Jon Allen

* - Cam Sims/Kam Curl

 - Antonio Gibson

  - Taylor Heinicke/Kyle Allen

   - The Offensive Line (besides Flowers)

 

 

 

Season to Date:

 

* x12 - Terry McLaurin

* x12 - Jon Allen

* x7 - Kam Curl

* x6 - Taylor Heinicke

* x6 - JD McKissick 

* x5 - Daron Payne

* x4 - Tress Way

* x4 - Logan Thomas

* x3 - Erick Flowers

* x3 - "The Fan"

* x3 - Adam Humphries

* x2 - Antonio Gibson

* x1 - Brian Johnson

* x1 - Benjamin St Juste

* x1 - DeAndre Carter

* x1 - Jamin Davis

* x1 - Shaka Toney

* x1 - Matt Ioannidis

* x1 - Cam Sims

 x1 - Joey Slye

 x1- Cole Holcomb

 x1- William Jackson III

 x2 - Kyle Allen

 x2 - Landon Collins

 x2 - Dax Milne

 x2 - Brandon Scherff

 x2- Kendall Fuller

 x3 - The Whole OL (minus Scherff)

 x3 - Cornelius Lucas

 x3 - Dustin Hopkins

 x3 - Charles Leno, Jr.

 x4 - Chase Young

 x5 - Bobby McCain

 x7 - Jon Bostic

 

[NoVaSkins21]

Yesterday showed how far removed they are from Dal@ss in terms of talent.  Getting blown off the ball and destroyed by their DL.  Just pathetic.  The game was essentially over in the 1st quarter and they never fully recovered.  They looked like the 2-6 team before the bye week.  Heinicke was horrible and showed that he can be a bridge QB and obviously isn't the future of this team.  

[Burgold]

Humphries made some plays when targeted. Not sure if he merits a star. Hard to tell with the QB play we had. It might have been my imagination, but I thought the oline got a little better when Israel replaced Larson at center. Patterson did okay with limited carries. Hard to tell though since garbage time runs are often there for the taking.

 

Maybe I'm just hunting for silver linings.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Humphries made some plays when targeted. Not sure if he merits a star. Hard to tell with the QB play we had. It might have been my imagination, but I thought the oline got a little better when Israel replaced Larson at center. Patterson did okay with limited carries. Hard to tell though since garbage time runs are often there for the taking.

 

Maybe I'm just hunting for silver linings.

Humphries wasn’t bad by any means. He was 4/34 on the day. The biggest play he made was getting crushed out of bounds on the sideline. If he didn’t take that hit Washington would have punted. 

[fearlessNelms]

Heinicke stunk, the o-line stunk and as a result, the offense as a whole obviously stunk. That said, this game was lost when we turned the ball over on back to back possessions, which led to 15 Dallas points. Dallas had 9 points on real drives, as their other 18 points came off a fumble scoop and score and two short fields on a pick and Gibson's fumble. 

 

I thought the D was okay. Again, they gave up 9 points on non turnover drives- that's usually winning defense. We had some missed opportunities when Fuller dropped a pick and Davis dropped a pick. Dallas also put the ball on the ground a few times when Prescott stumbled on the exchange with Elliott and on the ensuing kickoff after Holcomb's pick 6, but the ball didn't bounce our way and Dallas recovered both.

 

With all that we still had a shot and if Carter doesn't drop the dime Allen put on him down the sideline, who knows what might have happened. Dallas won this game with their relentless pressure on our QB's and if that doesn't get fixed, we have no shot against Philly and Dallas again in 2 weeks.

 

What really pisses me off about this loss is how McCarthy guaranteed a win- basically unheard of out of a coaches mouth and how Dallas brought in their own benches as an @#$% you and we let them make good on it. Usually when stuff like that happens, the team that talks ends up looking like fools after they get beat down. The Raiders had a team gathering on the Chiefs logo at midfield yesterday before the game and the Chiefs said that was major motivation for the whoopin' they put on the Raiders. 

 

We got chumped and I hope we're pissed about it. 

[markmills67]

Just out of curiosity KDAWG what do you think we would get if we traded both Young and Sweat?.

[Tonysoprano1]

All things considered I also thought the D was ok, turnovers by the O handed points away. This game really exposed the limitations of TH. When there no real run game, and he becomes a pass first offense, well that abouts spells trouble. He lofts passes into double and triple coverage with no real zip, he panics and his decision making goes out the door. Fine back up, but for a team serious about moving deep into the playoffs and ling term success TH simply is not the answer. Tons of hearts and guts, but short on overall skill set and talent. Best thing he does is scramble. KA in the same boat. Simple facts.

Montez Sweat "I'm not getting a vaccination" position really came back to kill us. Not only does he go down, but hes likely the reason the others did too and we were forced to play with no experienced 3rd and 4th stringers. Nice job Montez, grow up next year or it's time to move on.

[UK Skins]

8 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Just out of curiosity KDAWG what do you think we would get if we traded both Young and Sweat?.

Maybe not the place for this convo Mark (I'll leave that to Kdawg) but we will get screwed if teams know we are trading both of them. Be like a fire-sale, I think the Americans call it. Maybe one this off-season and the other the following, if they don't learn their lesson?

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Just out of curiosity KDAWG what do you think we would get if we traded both Young and Sweat?.

 

Just now, UK Skins said:

Maybe not the place for this convo Mark (I'll leave that to Kdawg) but we will get screwed if teams know we are trading both of them. Be like a fire-sale, I think the Americans call it. Maybe one this off-season and the other the following, if they don't learn their lesson?

Eh, it's fine.

 

I have no idea. I don't think they have high worth right now. Maybe a pair of 2s? A healthy Young probably nets a 1.

[Thinking Skins]

I was on twitter complaining about the defense and how they were dropping INTs early. It was frustrating because especially after we were down 18-0, I was saying that we could have had more of a chance. That said, I give them credit. In particular I give a nod of my head to Shaka Toney and Johnathan Williams. Toney drew a critical holding call and got a sack on Dak and a holding call. Johnathan Williams came alive in a seemingly meaningless drive that gave us 7 and brought us to within 13 points. Seemingly unimportant but then the pic 6 and we have ourselves a ball game. I hope he gets more opportunities to play because I just haven't been seeing it from Patterson (although he did play a better game today than previously). If JDM can't go, I'd like to see more of him. 

Oh and I give so many props to Cam Sims. That's the guy I've been asking to see more of all year and we finally saw him. Its his second TD of the year and second beautiful catch. He's a bigger body who can beat press man like they were playing today. Our other WRs didn't show up today. 

[KDawg]

I do find it interesting that people say they don't see it with Patterson but seem to think Gibson has played well. 

 

Patterson is 3.6 yards per carry (not good). GIbson is 3.9 yards per carry (not good). I think Gibson's issue is mostly usage % related. But still. Interesting paradox. 

[MrJL]

I hope Heinike is okay for next week.  Our OL did look bad, but I wonder if Larsen was actually playing hurt at the start.  And then Leno went out and I don't think he came back in.  I hope next week if Leno can't go they swap Lucas and Charles or get Cosmi back so Lucas can swing over.  So pissed off oat Sweat his actions take us from where we could get one of our starting DE's back instead we end up losing both of our primary backups

 

Glad they made something of a game of it at the end.  Still think Heinicke was down on the fumble return

Edited December 13, 2021 by MrJL

[Acworth skins fan]

How does everyone know that Sweat brought it in and not someone else?

[DWinzit]

13 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I have no idea. I don't think they have high worth right now. Maybe a pair of 2s? A healthy Young probably nets a 1.

It's going to be hard to get a lot for either right now. Would need Sweat to come back healthy and play well and Young to have a quick recovery

 

It has been nice to see the D playing well with both of these guys out. It started with Bostics injury and Collins finally playing where he should have been.

 

Love me some Shaka

 

8 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I do find it interesting that people say they don't see it with Patterson but seem to think Gibson has played well. 

 

Patterson is 3.6 yards per carry (not good). GIbson is 3.9 yards per carry (not good). I think Gibson's issue is mostly usage % related. But still. Interesting paradox. 

Big fail not to have upgraded or at least held onto Peyton Barber. There were some that argued we were set with Gibson and JDM, now we all know another back is required!

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

It's going to be hard to get a lot for either right now. Would need Sweat to come back healthy and play well and Young to have a quick recovery

 

It has been nice to see the D playing well with both of these guys out. It started with Bostics injury and Collins finally playing where he should have been.

 

Love me some Shaka

 

Big fail not to have upgraded or at least held onto Peyton Barber. There were some that argued we were set with Gibson and JDM, now we all know another back is required!

And the thing is those people that said we were set took it as a knock on Gibson. It's not. Gibson can play. But he's a converted receiver who isn't used to the workload and touches. Injuries, wearing down and fumbles come with the territory when you run a receiver into a brick wall repeatedly.

 

Gibson is an excellent back when fairly fresh and able to use his explosiveness.

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, MrJL said:

I hope Heinike is okay for next week. 

Our OL did look bad, but I wonder if Larsen was actually playing hurt at the start.  And then Leno went out and I don't think he came back in.  I hope next week if Leno can't go they swap Lucas and Charles or get Cosmi back so Lucas can swing over. 

Sure do hope TH is healthy too! He is a warrior out there, one that got bloodied bad yesterday

I don't think Cosmi is eligible to come off the 21 list until next week

[Est.1974]

Getting rolled over in the first quarter was demoralising. They talked us down then blew us away. Intensity and execution on a different level to us. That hurts. We missed too many opportunities.

 

Parsons is a great one in the making. Stay clean and he’ll run riot for years. 
 

Heinicke completely folded. OL was shambolic. Our 18mil man looking distinctly average at best. I feel that we have a pretty good receiver group in the making. They had little hope yesterday for the vast majority of the game aside from jump balls. Gibson remains frustrating. 
 

Our D just about held their own eventually. Usual suspects performing well. Payne and Allen quality.

 

Another blocked kick. I mean if we score again to make it 27-26, are you going for two or taking the kick. You just know we’re missing that kick to draw level. 

[skins island connection]

This was definitely a let-down game; this team has enough talent to beat Dallas.

IMO this was more on the OC Turner than TH; everyone knew the Dallas D-line was healthy and gonna bring pressure, but TH kept hanging in the pocket instead of rolling out away from pressure.  The way to keep an aggressive d-line at check is to force them to keep guessing by roll-outs and designed run plays by TH, and the o-line didn't do ghim any favors.

 

The secondary still looks confused. One play where Cooper caught the short pass with nobody around him, they're all in the endzone, and he simply runs straight through them as they stand flat footed. There is a bad need for talent back there, Curl can't do everything. 

 

Dallas isn't THAT great; they played aggressive and WFT didn't, simple as that. Waiting for WRs to come to you AFTER they catch the pass is not a winning formula. We all knew Dallas' running game wasn't going to be anything but defenders have to stop playing so far off the LOS; it was pitch-n-catch for Dallas THEN they go to tackle the WR.

[CjSuAvE22]

The offense hasnt been doing much the last 3 weeks they did just enough to win the seattle and vegas games, and lost the game for the team yesterday, in an offense minded league if we are ever going to be "contenders" we need to fix that side of the ball. We can nitpick the defense about dropped int's etc, but in 2021's NFL they are doing just fine atm. 

 

Also can someone explain to me the penalty on Jackson on 3rd down and long that he was called for? I was at the game and didnt see a penalty...unless it wasnt on jackson. 

Edited December 13, 2021 by CjSuAvE22

[Chris 44]

Credit to Wise for sticking with Prescott as he rolled out and getting in his face forcing the pick 6 to Holcomb.

[lovemaskins]

6 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

 

 

Also can someone explain to me the penalty on Jackson on 3rd down and long that he was called for? I was at the game and didnt see a penalty...unless it wasnt on jackson. 

It was a bad call, even Merlin Olsen said so as ex Tight End commentating. Basic NFL WR / Corner hand fighting that they called PI.  Zebras have been struggling all over the league it seems this year.

[method man]

56 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I do find it interesting that people say they don't see it with Patterson but seem to think Gibson has played well. 

 

Patterson is 3.6 yards per carry (not good). GIbson is 3.9 yards per carry (not good). I think Gibson's issue is mostly usage % related. But still. Interesting paradox. 

It’s because Patterson doesn’t fit a role. He’s too small to take a lot of carries but doesn’t seem to have the abilities of a scat back. He is practice squad material

[Koolblue13]

Nice to see Cole and Landon working their way out of the deep end. Collins has been insanely good the last few weeks. Our LBers are becoming a strength. 

 

WJ3 has been playing much better too. Fuller is playing really well. Been quiet in the last couple weeks and that's a good thing.

 

Curl is a beast.

 

Allen is on track for double digit sacks, while being great against the run.

 

Payne is getting better every week at closing on the QB, while being a monster against the run. He's having a year like Allen has last year. Lock this man up long term.

 

Our defense is just balling. It's fun to watch.

 

On offense, we have no QB. AG is wildly and incorrectly used. Matt Jones 2.0. I'll say this about AG. If the offense had a real QB and was putting points on the board with an affective passing attack, I think AG can be our RB1. But teams know we have to run the ball all the time, so it's a grind. He's not built for that.

 

Offensive line looked really good later in the game.

 

Heinicke holds the ball too long, throws inaccurate passes, refuses to tuck it and run, doesn't see presnap blitzers. He's bad and it's getting guys hurt. 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, method man said:

It’s because Patterson doesn’t fit a role. He’s too small to take a lot of carries but doesn’t seem to have the abilities of a scat back. He is practice squad material

 

Yeah, but Gibson doesn't fit a role (the way he's being used) either.

 

So there's that.

[method man]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Nice to see Cole and Landon working their way out of the deep end. Collins has been insanely good the last few weeks. Our LBers are becoming a strength. 

 

WJ3 has been playing much better too. Fuller is playing really well. Been quiet in the last couple weeks and that's a good thing.

 

Curl is a beast.

 

Allen is on track for double digit sacks, while being great against the run.

 

Payne is getting better every week at closing on the QB, while being a monster against the run. He's having a year like Allen has last year. Lock this man up long term.

 

Our defense is just balling. It's fun to watch.

 

On offense, we have no QB. AG is wildly and incorrectly used. Matt Jones 2.0. I'll say this about AG. If the offense had a real QB and was putting points on the board with an affective passing attack, I think AG can be our RB1. But teams know we have to run the ball all the time, so it's a grind. He's not built for that.

 

Offensive line looked really good later in the game.

 

Heinicke holds the ball too long, throws inaccurate passes, refuses to tuck it and run, doesn't see presnap blitzers. He's bad and it's getting guys hurt. 

At this point, if he is ok playing buffalo nickel in 2022, I keep Landon. If you do, the only starting position you’d need to upgrade is FS. I’m interested to see what this D can do in 2022 with 10/11 starters back