Running on the Rollercoaster: Antonio Gibson and the Rushers

[Burgold]

I wanted to talk about Gibson and wasn't sure where to go. I even did a search and found no solo topic on page 1 and page 6 using his name. So, Gibson gets a new thread.

 

I don't know quite what to make of Gibson's game yesterday. He had another red zone fumble that led him being benched for the half, but when he came out of the dog house he came out like a man on a mission, pulling off big run after big run and really punishing Carolina. Then, at the end of the game, on that 7 yard final run you can see him try to hit the brakes so he wouldn't go out of bounds, but he did it too late and was thrown out of bounds to stop the clock. Given everything he's going through from nagging injuries to the positional change it was quite a game. 

 

You can see he doesn't have the vision of Patterson, but what he does have is explosion and power. I still want to see him used on screens or as a receiver more so he can exploit his speed. Still, I can't decide if that benching turned on a light because the running back we saw through most of the second half was really, really good.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Burgold

[Darrell Green Fan]

Such a frustrating player, when he ran out of bounds I wanted to throttle him.  Patterson has been a disappointment once the real games began and I just don't trust Gibson not to fumble or make a knucklehead play.  

[Chris 44]

I disagree on Patterson, I think he has played pretty well given the limited opportunities. Don't think he will ever be your primary work horse type back but seems a good change of pace / relief type of back. I dont know, work in progress?

[ANONYMOUS SOURCE.]

Reminds me of Tiki Barber. Was on his way out till he went back and changed how he handled the ball, started carrying it like a loaf of bread and went on to a decent second half of his career. Perhaps Gibson can do something similar. The dumb decisions are  lack of awareness and not sure what you can do about that.

Edited November 22, 2021 by ANONYMOUS SOURCE.

[Chris 44]

3 minutes ago, ANONYMOUS SOURCE. said:

Reminds me of Tiki Barber. Was on his way out till he went back and changed how he handled the ball, started carrying it like a loaf of bread and went on to a decent second half of his career. Perhaps Gibson can do something similar. The dumb decisions are  lack of awareness and not sure what you can do about that.

Kinda concerning that even after he came back in he still seemed to be a little loose with the ball. Love his drive and effort, its what's going on between the ears that is concerning.

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

 I still want to see him used on screens or as a receiver more so he can exploit his speed. 

Agreed, he was such a great college player due versatility being positioned all over the field. 

They were enamored enough with him to draft him higher than his rankings on most boards, yet went right into trying to change him. I wish he was moved around more and they had brought in another back that can carry more of the rushing duties. I am certain that will be high on next years wish list

[TradeTheBeal!]

I feel like, if Samuels had been able to stay even somewhat healthy, you’d see a lot more of Gibson motioning into the slot/hback/etc.  

 

But groins gonna groin and he’s kinda stuck playing exclusively tailback.

 

But, I love his game when he’s not fumbling.  Kid runs with real attitude.

[Koolblue13]

He should be doing a lot better behind this offensive line, because they are dominant. 

 

And he's got a fumbling problem now. 

 

Then the out of bounds play.

 

We need a true RB1.

 

I think if he gets a hang of the fumbling, he would make one of the best 3rd down backs in the league, but he is not a primary RB and that's fine.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't see him as as valuable on 3rd down as a guy like McKissic.  Gibson dropped a lot of passes, which is odd as he played receiver, and he isn't that small guy able to make quick cuts like a traditional 3rd down back.   I think his role will be as the primary RB, he has shown that ability if he learns to hang on to the ball and shows more game awareness.  

[method man]

Gibson is a guy that you milk during his rookie deal but let someone else overpay for on his second deal. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…this team cannot let McKissic go

[Tarpon75]

11 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

He should be doing a lot better behind this offensive line, because they are dominant. 

 

And he's got a fumbling problem now. 

 

Then the out of bounds play.

 

We need a true RB1.

 

I think if he gets a hang of the fumbling, he would make one of the best 3rd down backs in the league, but he is not a primary RB and that's fine.

Disagree in regard to blaming Gibson for not doing better running the ball. Most  of the time when he is limited to a short gain or a loss it is because he is hit in the backfield before he even has a chance.Given that the offensive line has been kind of patchwork it’s understandable, but they have allowed a lot of pressure on TH  and a lot of running plays to be blown up in the backfield. While his fumbleitis  is definitely a problem Gibson runs extremely hard and should  continue to improve. Just hope he can get the fumbles under control.I agree with someone who stated earlier that he was still holding the ball to loosely after his red zone fumble.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Tarpon75

[ananoman]

No excuse on that out of bounds play.  He should have taken a dive even before he was closing in on the sidelines regardless of whether he was about to get tackled or not.  

 

...and the fumbling is a huge concern.  The guy carries the ball too loosely- looking like it could get poked out on any given play 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I like Gibson but I’d like to see him used a bit more creativity. Line that dude up all over the field. Put him on the field with McKissic and make defenses have to account for two guys that can catch passes out of the backfield. Do they not have a two back package for these guys? How can you not?

 

I’ll get flamed for this but I don’t think his fumble yesterday was as bad as it looked. Panthers player punched it out perfectly, sometimes you can’t defend that. Happened at a terrible time for sure. 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I like Gibson but I’d like to see him used a bit more creativity. Line that dude up all over the field. Put him on the field with McKissic and make defenses have to account for two guys that can catch passes out of the backfield. Do they not have a two back package for these guys? How can you not?

 

I’ll get flamed for this but I don’t think his fumble yesterday was as bad as it looked. Panthers player punched it out perfectly, sometimes you can’t defend that. Happened at a terrible time for sure. 

The Milne punch the prior week while he was hugging it and being hit by a huge LBer known for those plays and Gibson barely securing the ball while a defender grazed it trying to tackle him are widely different situations. That fumble is firmly on Gibson and it's been an issue this year.

2:25 mark. 

[Warhead36]

Gibson has talent but he's not a pure workhorse type back and we need to stop using him like that. His vision is lacking at times and he's constantly running into the backs of his linemen. However, when he sees the hole and makes that cut, he can rip off big runs. He's also really hard to bring down and consistently gets extra yardage. He's MUCH better in space than in traffic. He had that one sick run on that drive he was averaging 10 YPC where he planted his foot and made a guy just miss like he was Barry Sanders.

 

I don't understand why we don't motion him out of the backfield and use him as a receiver more like we do with McKissic. I haven't been as critical on Scott Turner as others but that's the one issue I have with him: he doesn't really maximize Gibson as much as he could. I'd like him better as a 15 carry/5 catch per game type instead of a 20+ carry guy. I don't think we've run a single screen pass to Gibby ever and rarely do we send him out on pass patterns. I really hope this isn't gonna be another Clinton Portis situation where we turn a speed type back and try to turn him into a grinder.

 

Gotta give him a lot of credit for coming back after the benching and running with authority. He looked like a stud on that one drive. But can he maintain that? Not 10 YPC of course but just being able to see holes, plant his feet, make a cut and go, etc. And of course the fumbling. He has gotta work on that. But that's something that can be fixed.

[Renegade7]

As much as some folks want to say Young is going through a sophomore slump, Gibson doesn't seem to be getting that benefit of the doubt despite switching positions for us. The talent is obviously there and he's only 23 years old.  We should be talking growing pains, not replacing him as RB1.

[Burgold]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

As much as some folks want to say Young is going through a sophomore slump, Gibson doesn't seem to be getting that benefit of the doubt.

That's a really good point.

[Darrell Green Fan]

I'm not sure fumbling and failing to realize you need to stay in bounds in the final minutes can be called a sophomore slump but I guess everyone has a different definition.  

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, ananoman said:

No excuse on that out of bounds play.  He should have taken a dive even before he was closing in on the sidelines regardless of whether he was about to get tackled or not.  

 

...and the fumbling is a huge concern.  The guy carries the ball too loosely- looking like it could get poked out on any given play 

This was my thought as well.  There’s two things he simply cannot do on that play - fumble and go out of bounds.  With that said, and more time to think about it, I’m a bit more understanding of the situation.  For starters, I genuinely think he thought he might be able to get that 1st down and therefore we could run out the clock.  He had a chance to be the hero to make up for his fumble and that might have affected his decision making.  Secondly, he hasn’t had much experience (relative to his peers), so I have to imagine that’s sort of a new situation for him.  Third, at least he didn’t straight up run out of bounds (I’ve seen others do that over the years in similar situations).

 

I can understand those that want him used more as a weapon (a-la McKissick or Chris Thompson), but I think he’s a fine #1.  He runs with a lot of power, shrugs off first contact routinely, has good balance, and decent to good quickness.  His vision can (needs to) improve, but he’s still pretty inexperienced.  He’s got to improve his fumbling though for sure.  I was one that thought Najee would have been a good pick for us at 19 last year though, so obviously I’d like to add another #1 type of back.  Gives us insurance for Gibson, and potentially pushes Gibson to be the change of pace or backup if the added back excels.

 

 

Edit: @Burgold- your thread of course, but maybe this could be(come) the catch-all run game thread?

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by skinny21

[ThomasRoane]

4 hours ago, Burgold said:

I wanted to talk about Gibson and wasn't sure where to go. I even did a search and found no solo topic on page 1 and page 6 using his name. So, Gibson gets a new thread.

 

I don't know quite what to make of Gibson's game yesterday. He had another red zone fumble that led him being benched for the half, but when he came out of the dog house he came out like a man on a mission, pulling off big run after big run and really punishing Carolina. Then, at the end of the game, on that 7 yard final run you can see him try to hit the brakes so he wouldn't go out of bounds, but he did it too late and was thrown out of bounds to stop the clock. Given everything he's going through from nagging injuries to the positional change it was quite a game. 

 

You can see he doesn't have the vision of Patterson, but what he does have is explosion and power. I still want to see him used on screens or as a receiver more so he can exploit his speed. Still, I can't decide if that benching turned on a light because the running back we saw through most of the second half was really, really good.

 

He is very frustrating but also very talented.  Man, this kid is so close to being considered a top 5 running back. He is more patient when needed and is now learning when he just needs to lower the pads and get what he can get.  But the fumbles and the brain cramp at the end!  UGH!!!  (Let's not forget he probably cost the team the game vs the Chargers this year too)  

 

On the fumbles, he has got to keep that ball high and tight in traffic!  I'd make him keep two hands on the ball up the middle until he satisfies his opponents that his fumbling days are behind him.  Until then, they'll keep tugging and punching. 

 

EDIT: Coaching point I always used was No Air between your body and the ball!!! 

 

On the out of bounds plays I saw the same thing he did.  He had a shot at getting a first down and closing out the game.  But it wasn't worth the risk.  He will hopefully learn from that.  You saw it in his face.  He was so disappointed in himself.  

 

You can't give up on him.  He's special.  He's also still a baby as far as playing RB.  He just needs more reps.  McKissic and Patterson have had years of working on ball security so it's second nature to them.  Gibson will get there.  I think putting him in the doghouse for the first half was good coaching.  It wasn't just punishment.  It was also done to keep Gibson from trying to immediately make up for it and making matters worse.  

 

I'll just repeat myself here because, as a coach, I can see how close this kid is to breaking out.  The game is slowing down for him as a running back.  He's starting to anticipate the opening of a hole.  Not just seeing daylight.  But seeing the potential for daylight.  He's really exciting to watch.  Hopefully Bmitch will get in his hear and remind him "ball security is job security!"

Edited November 22, 2021 by ThomasRoane

[NickyJ]

43 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

As much as some folks want to say Young is going through a sophomore slump, Gibson doesn't seem to be getting that benefit of the doubt despite switching positions for us. The talent is obviously there and he's only 23 years old.  We should be talking growing pains, not replacing him as RB1.

The sophomore slump of a DE is "wow, that sucks that he only put pressure on the QB instead of sacking him." The sophomore slump of Antonio Gibson is "wow, that sucks that he gave the ball to the other team on 3 of his 5 fumbles and gave the other team an extra 40 seconds of possession time to make a comeback drive."

 

RBs are a dime a dozen. DE's drafted with the second overall pick are not. It doesn't mean Gibson needs to be cut the moment he makes a mistake, but he does get a much shorter rope for much more disastrous mistakes.

Edited November 22, 2021 by NickyJ

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, ananoman said:

 

 

...and the fumbling is a huge concern.  The guy carries the ball too loosely- looking like it could get poked out on any given play 

...and herein lies the problem going forward, opposing defenses see this and will make it a key topic during their pre game practices.

[ThomasRoane]

1 hour ago, Tarpon75 said:

Disagree,in regard to blaming Gibson for not doing better running the ball. Most  of the time when he is limited to a short gain  or a loss it is because he is hit in the backfield before he even has a chance.Given that the offensive line has been kind of patch work it’s understandable, but they have allowed a lot of pressure on TH  and a lot of running plays to be blown up in the backfield. While his fumbleitis  is definitely a problem Gibson runs extremely hard and should  continue to improve. Just hope he can get the fumbles under control.I agree with someone who stated earlier that he was still holding the ball to loosely after his red zone fumble.

 

What's so frustrating is coordinators like Gruden and Turner who insist on getting cute with the sift block.  Where you expect the TE to go across the formation to block a much bigger DE with a full head of steam!  Just stop it!  Give the TE a fighting chance.  Motion him before the play or whatever.  

 

Next issue is too often I see people passing color.  What I mean by that, is let's say you are pulling or trapping or washing a defender down.  As you are on your way you should never pass color!  (Meaning, a different color jersey than your team has)  Too often I see lineman pass up a guy who hits the RB in the backfield.  Take care of the most dangerous threat first!  Let the RB make the other guy miss.  Then, there's an issue of sustain.  Milne brush blocked a blitzing safety yesterday.  He bumped him and went to the next why.  WHY!?!?!  That safety made the tackle!!!  

 

So yeah, a lot of the hits in the backfield are not on Gibson or any RB.  A RB should not have to make a cut before he even reaches the LOS!

[Burgold]

15 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

 

Edit: @Burgold- your thread of course, but maybe this could be(come) the catch-all run game thread?

 

Sure, I changed the title. Antonio Gibson and the Rushers sounds like a 50's do-wop group lol

[wit33]

1 hour ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

He is very frustrating but also very talented.  Man, this kid is so close to being considered a top 5 running back. He is more patient when needed and is now learning when he just needs to lower the pads and get what he can get.  But the fumbles and the brain cramp at the end!  UGH!!!  (Let's not forget he probably cost the team the game vs the Chargers this year too)  

 

On the fumbles, he has got to keep that ball high and tight in traffic!  I'd make him keep two hands on the ball up the middle until he satisfies his opponents that his fumbling days are behind him.  Until then, they'll keep tugging and punching. 

 

EDIT: Coaching point I always used was No Air between your body and the ball!!! 

 

On the out of bounds plays I saw the same thing he did.  He had a shot at getting a first down and closing out the game.  But it wasn't worth the risk.  He will hopefully learn from that.  You saw it in his face.  He was so disappointed in himself.  

 

You can't give up on him.  He's special.  He's also still a baby as far as playing RB.  He just needs more reps.  McKissic and Patterson have had years of working on ball security so it's second nature to them.  Gibson will get there.  I think putting him in the doghouse for the first half was good coaching.  It wasn't just punishment.  It was also done to keep Gibson from trying to immediately make up for it and making matters worse.  

 

I'll just repeat myself here because, as a coach, I can see how close this kid is to breaking out.  The game is slowing down for him as a running back.  He's starting to anticipate the opening of a hole.  Not just seeing daylight.  But seeing the potential for daylight.  He's really exciting to watch.  Hopefully Bmitch will get in his hear and remind him "ball security is job security!"

All of this!

 

His ability to run from under center has improved DRAMATICALLY. I continue to say his ability to provide a power running game out of the shotgun set is unique. I don’t watch the rest of the NFL as much as I used to, but I don’t see other RBs providing the power he does out of shotgun. 
 

Many point to his youth as a RB (which is true) but his “do it all” background seems to have provided him great comfort in handling the ball out of the gun. 
 

He’s trending way up. Outside of the fumbling 😕