Next Day Thread: Washington vs. Tampa

[Catatonic]

If anything, this game proved that I’d be a terrible odds maker.

[kingdaddy]

Just look at the players we won with yesterday (in addition to our studs) and ask yourself how we did it:

TH

Carter (huge plays)

Seals Jones

Bates

Milne

Humphries

Patterson

Sims

 

Who'm I missin? 

 

 

[Hazel-Ra]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I saw that. I wouldn't mind a 6'5" 230lbs WR on our team.

 

I'd love to get Mike Evans in Burgundy n Gold.

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, hawgboy said:

 

I'd love to get Mike Evans in Burgundy n Gold.

We'll probably see Bates in line and Reyes off ball playing TE the rest of the season. Not WRs, but exciting to see.

[Malapropismic Depository]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That was a Gregg Williams staple when he coached here. 

 

And it seemed to work pretty well.

Gibbs 2.0 + Gregg Williams, got to the playoffs a couple times, with very little offense, and very few studs on the team, so that tells me the defensive coaching had to be good.

One of the playoff runs was a surge that operated with Todd Collins at QB. Now that's defense.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Malapropismic Depository

[NickyJ]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

Awards:

 

 

   - William Jackson III (can't have that penalty)

 

Season to Date:

 

 

  x2- William Jackson III

I feel like this is a special commentary on how Jackson has been so invisible in some games that one of his smilies turned invisible too.

[Dan T.]

One unsung hero - or maybe it should be under-the-radar hero - is Adam Humphries, with a tough, diving third down catch to keep The Drive

alive.  It seems like he comes up with one or two of those key third down catches every game, despite being on the field for limited snaps.

[petey hodge]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

John Bates - I like him... But that fumble ...

 

Did someone say BUTT FUMBLE?

 

 

😆

[London Kev]

44 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Just look at the players we won with yesterday (in addition to our studs) and ask yourself how we did it:

TH

Carter (huge plays)

Seals Jones

Bates

Milne

Humphries

Patterson

Sims

 

Who'm I missin? 

 

 

 

I noticed Reyes in for three or four plays on offense. First time we've used him apart from ST I think.

Edited November 15, 2021 by London Kev

[KDawg]

17 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I feel like this is a special commentary on how Jackson has been so invisible in some games that one of his smilies turned invisible too.

 

Nope. He had a * for his play week 1. Has fallen by the way side since. 

15 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

One unsung hero - or maybe it should be under-the-radar hero - is Adam Humphries, with a tough, diving third down catch to keep The Drive

alive.  It seems like he comes up with one or two of those key third down catches every game, despite being on the field for limited snaps.

 

Yup. Agreed. He's in the OP! With you on this. 

[method man]

By the way, anyone else love how Galdi subtly shades Sheehan on his podcast? On today's episode, he makes fun of how certain people keep bringing up how Devin White was missing in the playoff game (something Sheehan constantly does). 

[gooseneck]

I am so confused.  Did Belichick win the Superbowls because of Brady or vice a versa?  Are we a good team or a bad team?   Are the Wizards the best team in Washington?  I think tomorrow I will get out of the other side of bed so I can figure out reality.  

[Dan T.]

Me rewatching The Drive on my IPhone:

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

All the accolades and the spoils to the victors. My brother-in-law and nephew (who's 8 ) are damn bandwagon Brady fans.  They were fans of his when he was winning in NE, then they became Bucs fans when he moved to the Bucs.  I'm sure they'll adopt whoever is the next big thing so they can root for a winner.  Hopefully they cried themselves to sleep last night.  There is little I cherish more than unhappy Brady.  

 

Ok, with that said, 3 points:

 

1. The key stats of the game is the WFT went 10-14 on 3rd down and 2-2 on 4th down.   That's what enabled them to maintain possession and run the clock.  The biggest contributor to that success was TH, who was REALLY good on third down. The corollary is Tampa was 4-10 on 3rd down, which limited their TOP and opportunities.

 

That's where this game was won/lost.  3rd downs.  If Washington doesn't convert on every one of those third downs and 4th downs, they probably give Brady JUST enough chances to beat them. 

 

The next point is going to make this even more remarkable and praise-worthy.  Our running game on first down stunk.  See #2.

 

2. I liked the fact Scott Turner kept hammering at the run game.  I didn't like when he did it.  Here is some statistical breakdown:

 

There were 29 first downs in the game, when looking at the play-by-play.  This includes 1 which was a PI penalty on Tampa which resulted in the first and goal.

 

Of those:

Run: 

19 attempts, 42 yards, 2.21 yards per paly.  

However, consider:

There were 4 runs for negative yardage.

There were 7 runs for 1 or 2 yards. 

There were 7 runs for 3-5 yards

There was 1 run for 15 yards.

 

So, on 11 of the 19 attempts, the team was in 2nd and 8+.   That's not good.  

 

If you look at just Gibby, he was 13 for 32, a 2.5 clip overall.  He did have the one big one, but also 3 of the negative runs.  

 

Pass:

10 attempts, 86 yards, 8.6 yards per play.

I AM giving credit for the 13 yard PI.  You can't get a PI if you don't throw it.  

Of passes thrown, TH went 7-8 on first down.  THAT is freaking good.  

There was 1 incomplete and 1 sack for -5 yards. (Both included in the number above.

 

So through the entire game, we were 65% run on first down.  Which is fine if you're averaging 4+ yards.  But we weren't.  In fact on over 50% of the runs, we were in 2nd and long.  

 

I'm going to keep banging this drum.  You CAN'T consistently run for such crap yardage on first down and expect to have sustained success.  It puts you in a lot of 3rd downs, and you have to convert a very high percentage of them, or your're punting a lot or kicking FGs.  If you want to score consistently, this has to be fixed.

 

3.  The WJIII penalty was the stupidest penalty I think I've seen in a WFT/Redskin game since Michael Westbrook took off his helmet in a game against the Giants (I think) knocking them out of FG range.  It was completely unnecessary.  There were other people there rallying to make the tackle.  The clock had expired.  All they had to do was get him down.

 

That 3 points could have been enormous.  If the Tampa kicker doesn't miss that extra point, TB would have been down 3.  Now, we had the long drive which would have made it a 2 score game anyway, but honestly, that 3 point lead should have always been 6.  You can't just gift points.

 

I don't know how you coach players to just be smarter.  But that was super dumb.  I don't know when they can get out of WJIII's contract, but I wouldn't wait.  I'd just say that it wasn't working and move on.  This was one of those microcosm moments for me, when a player who should know better just does something so insanely stupid you have to question whether they have the ability to overcome incompetence.  

 

[celticsalmon]

Football is entertainment. I was entertained yesterday by the best game the WFT has palyed in a long time.  

Edited November 15, 2021 by celticsalmon

[Chris 44]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Just look at the players we won with yesterday (in addition to our studs) and ask yourself how we did it:

TH

Carter (huge plays)

Seals Jones

Bates

Milne

Humphries

Patterson

Sims

 

Who'm I missin? 

 

 

I think I remember Reyes in on special teams, not sure if he saw any snaps on offense though.

edit. London kev beat me to it.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Chris 44

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RVAskins]

7 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Thank you KDawg.  Id like to add props to the O line in there also. May not have been great at times in pas pro but run blocked well (TB has a very good D line). Center Tyler Larsen had a good game stepping n for Rouillier. 

Really? Then I guess you missed this play. 

 

 

[fearlessNelms]

Fun game to watch as a WFT fan for a change. Heinicke balled his butt off, while McLaurin, Carter, Humphries and Mckissic made huge catches. Mckissic's reception to give us a first down where he caught it and got down quick before he got lit up and possibly fumbles was absolutely huge- love that dude, he's just a football player.

 

The D was physical and solid- don't recall many missed tackles. O-line wasn't stellar, but solid as well. Kicking game came up big and I can get on board with this Slye guy. He feels like for a kicker he brings a presence out there. 

 

Great team win and if nothing else, it got me excited in the season again. Looking forward to next Sunday.  

[ExoDus84]

7 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

Slye definitely deserves more praise than I am seeing him get.  

 

I mean, he made two 28 yard chip shots and a 46 yarder. He didn't miss a kick, so that's good. But it seems to me he was just hitting the kicks he should have at the NFL level. He wasn't out there booming 60 yarders.

[Vanguard]

That’s why I laugh at people saying we don’t have weapons or we’re not talented.  They don’t know what they’re talking about.  We just have to use our talent correctly.  Put them in a position to do what they do best.

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Of those:

Run: 

19 attempts, 42 yards, 2.21 yards per paly.  

However, consider:

There were 4 runs for negative yardage.

There were 7 runs for 1 or 2 yards. 

There were 7 runs for 3-5 yards

There was 1 run for 15 yards.

 

So, on 11 of the 19 attempts, the team was in 2nd and 8+.   That's not good.  

 

If you look at just Gibby, he was 13 for 32, a 2.5 clip overall.  He did have the one big one, but also 3 of the negative runs.  

 

So through the entire game, we were 65% run on first down.  Which is fine if you're averaging 4+ yards.  But we weren't.  In fact on over 50% of the runs, we were in 2nd and long.  

Just quoting your stats about the running game, and I'll believe we'll agree to disagree.

 

IMHO, a good run is one that goes at least 3 yards. If you can pound that on any running play, you'll go all the way to the endzone. 3+ x 3 >= 10, hence First Down. (3.34 yards to be precise).

 

So out of those 19 runs, 8 were good to pretty good.

 

Not that bad to me.

 

We've had way worse games regarding this. Having a huge early lead also helped vastly in the running and passing game.

[Burgold]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

but the defense almost functioned better without Young and Sweat on the field than it has with them. Why?

I hate the hunger thing because how can you measure it, but I'm going to go there anyway. There's a part of me that thinks these guys thought they'd arrived and lost that extra oomph. Bizarrely, I'm reminded of Michael Westbrook and Albert McConnell who kept bragging they were the best receivers in the league and would light the world on fire only to be so-so in games.

 

Right now, Sweat and Young have all the talent any coordinator could ask for, but are missing that extra something. It can't be the fact that they are being chipped. Young And Sweat can't both be chipped on every play. Besides, all great pass rushers are chipped so it's the great player's job to figure out how to overcome it.

 

The hunger thing doesn't feel quite right just because Chase always seems super into the game so it's hard to question his passion or effort. Still, there's no reason why these two shouldn't be Mann and Manley especially with Allen and Payne playing so well. It makes me wonder if the back ups are playing better because they aren't trying to be stars. They're just trying to earn a place in the league and on the field.

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Just quoting your stats about the running game, and I'll believe we'll agree to disagree.

 

IMHO, a good run is one that goes at least 3 yards. If you can pound that on any running play, you'll go all the way to the endzone. 3+ x 3 >= 10, hence First Down. (3.34 yards to be precise).

 

So out of those 19 runs, 8 were good to pretty good.

 

Not that bad to me.

 

We've had way worse games regarding this. Having a huge early lead also helped vastly in the running and passing game.

I'm sorry, 11 of your 19 first down runs resulting on 2 yards or less is not debatable.  It's bad.  It's not just bad, it's REALLY REALLY bad.

 

Also, we averaged 2.4 yards, not even 3.34 yards.

 

There is just no way to cut it, it's bad.

 

Now, what's different is that on runs on second and 3rd down, they were much more productive.

 

Why?  Because they ran in unpredictable situations.  The defense didn't key off of the tendency, they had to defend both run and pass, and you give the OL and RBs the ability to make some hay.  

 

So my issues is not that we should run less, it's that we should mix up what we're doing on first down more.  65% run on first down in today's NFL is too much.  It makes you one dimensional and predictable, with predictable results.

 

Take half of the first down runs, convert them to passes, and then run on second down instead.  I know, over-simplification, but it would be more productive.

 

 

[Dan T.]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I'm sorry, 11 of your 19 first down runs resulting on 2 yards or less is not debatable.  It's bad.  It's not just bad, it's REALLY REALLY bad.

 

Also, we averaged 2.4 yards, not even 3.34 yards.

 

There is just no way to cut it, it's bad.

 

Now, what's different is that on runs on second and 3rd down, they were much more productive.

 

Why?  Because they ran in unpredictable situations.  The defense didn't key off of the tendency, they had to defend both run and pass, and you give the OL and RBs the ability to make some hay.  

 

So my issues is not that we should run less, it's that we should mix up what we're doing on first down more.  65% run on first down in today's NFL is too much.  It makes you one dimensional and predictable, with predictable results.

 

Take half of the first down runs, convert them to passes, and then run on second down instead.  I know, over-simplification, but it would be more productive.

 

Let's not forget that the Bucs have one of the top two or three run defenses in the NFL.  Rush yards allowed is 2nd in the NFL. Their 3.7 YPC given up is 2nd in the league.  Six rushing TDs allowed is tied for 3rd in the league.

 

I like that Turner kept at it.  Even though they got stuffed early, success, though modest, came later.  Especially on The Drive.  They mixed it in just enough to keep it going.