Most bone-headed action by Washington QB?

[Silvernon]

The fact that I sometimes have these momentary feelings of dread when watching a 2-minute drive all leads back to Kirk taking a knee. 

 

Just beyond comprehension.

 

We recently talked about the secondary not jumping for a hail mary jump ball vs the Saints as mindblowing, but Kirk's was next-F-in-level.

 

The selfie bothered me at the time, but I had low expectations for Haskins. I haven't watched the most recent game yet to comment on Heinicke. 

 

Oh, and Frerotte's was a dumb celebration that got him injured. Not the difference in his career, imo. Not sure where it stands for me as it was before my fan days.

 

Edited October 25, 2021 by Silvernon

[Burgold]

I have watched forty years of football. I have never seen a player diving towards the end zone ruled down. Not once. 
 

it was a bull**** call. 

[Bloodytusk]

8 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I have watched forty years of football. I have never seen a player diving towards the end zone ruled down. Not once. 
 

it was a bull**** call. 

 It’s based on a rule change from 2018. 

[Burgold]

2 minutes ago, Bloodytusk said:

 It’s based on a rule change from 2018. 

And how many times has it been called vs how many times has it not been called since 2018?

 

It was a bull call. 

[Nerm]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

Yeah even with Jay's explanation the Kirk thing still stays, because it was still a boneheaded move he made when he panicked. There were 24 seconds on the play clock. If your guys aren't lining up where you think they should you can go over to them and say something to try and figure out the situation. The worst thing you can do is take a snap and then take a knee. Just bizarre.

 

I probably rate Kirk higher than most here.  He is a good QB, and I think he has been worth his contact for the Vikings.  But he does seem to have a history of messing up things that seem like they would be automatic.  When he was in Washington, I remember him messing up a hail Mary at the end of the half, when he threw the ball way out of bounds through the end zone.  Then, he has another hail Mary the very next game, and does the same thing.  He had to be thinking "I need to keep the throw in the field of play"... then misses the field of play.  There was another play in the Gruden era where he and Gruden talked about just throwing the ball away if the play was covered.  Kirk saw the play was covered and quickly threw the ball to the ground.  He got an intentional grounding call, because he didn't think to just throw the ball out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.  Gruden had to be thinking "I didn't think I had to specify to throw it away in a manner that isn't a penalty"

[Bloodytusk]

Just now, Burgold said:

And how many times has it been called vs how many times has it not been called since 2018?

 

It was a bull call. 

Glad you brought that up because the first thing I wondered was if that rule is even consistently called. That rule needs some kind of adjustment because that was nonsensical technical bull****.

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, Burgold said:

And how many times has it been called vs how many times has it not been called since 2018?

 

It was a bull call. 

 

Well, how many times has it happened? How many times has a QB tried to jump into the end zone and just barely got his knee down before going in? I'm going to guess not many. It happened to Rodgers a year ago or so IIRC, and he was called down because of it (and his was actually closer than Heinicke's). Other than that I'd guess there are only a few other instances.

 

You may not like the rule, but it's the way it is now. Heinicke did something dumb. He had a walk-in TD and decided for whatever reason to try and fall/dive into the end zone. Because of that dumb decision he didn't get a TD. We should probably deal with it and stop trying to blame everything on the refs.

[petey hodge]

 

[BleedBNG]

To me it was TH diving short of the goal when everyone knows he could have just ran in. I know the choice was the Lambeau leap but the dive was just so unnecessary. It was for a TD and to help keep pace with the Packers and he played it like a goof.

[Llevron]

6 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Same.

 

And the more I think about it, at the time I didn't really think it was too much of an issue, but with hindsight and all, we should have collectively been angrier about that.

I thought he was just young and really stupid and I’m my defenses, he is young and REALLY stupid lol

[FootballZombie]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

Well, how many times has it happened?

 

Every QB slide and kneeldown technically.

 

See it often enough over the course of a year, its just usually not right in front of an endzone. If a runner "gives themselves up" they are down where they hit the ground (outside of a QB slide where it is where the slide begins)

this one sticks out in my mind the most.

 

 

I've seen it prevent Turnovers a bunch. Whenever a QB fumbles while getting trucked while sliding they are offered the same protection. Since they are "giving themselves up" the ball dies when they start the slide.

 

The rule even existed in some capacity in the past, as any player, like say D. Hall, could take a knee in the middle of a field to kill the ball. same idea

 

The hurtful thing is that it puts the onus on a ref to decide if a player is "giving himself up". That involves determining intent which is dangerous.

 

 

It feels stupid b/c it was a forward dive, but TH went down of his own accord and was clearly short of the goaline. If the ref determines his intent, it was the correct call.

Edited October 26, 2021 by FootballZombie

[Burgold]

9 hours ago, BleedBNG said:

To me it was TH diving short of the goal when everyone knows he could have just ran in. I know the choice was the Lambeau leap but the dive was just so unnecessary. It was for a TD and to help keep pace with the Packers and he played it like a goof.

In real time, I get the dive. There were defenders closing in. If he runs upright he gets in, but probably also gets walloped. That happens all the time with a defender hitting a player just after they cross the goal line. Heinike's been coached to preserve himself for hits. He dove vs. slid to make sure he got across. Honestly, I don't blame him. I'm okay with blaming a rule that is never or very, very rarely enforced (players dive towards the end zone every game). Any sane interpretation of the play shows in this instance the player was not giving himself up. In fact, Heinike showed several times that very game he knew how to slide feet first to give himself up. That was going for it while trying not to get clobbered.

 

Bad call. Wrong call. Improperly enforced rule that is almost never enforced.

[Koolblue13]

Yall can **** about the call all you want, but if it was mid field and prevented a fumble, you'd be blaming refs for not calling it. 

 

It's ridiculous. 

 

He had his focus on doing the leap and not the TD. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

LOL that some posters want to say the rule does not apply when it's our QB.  The rule is in place to protect a QB, just because we rarely see this happen does not mean it was a bad call or we should not follow the rule.  TH screwed up, that's all folks.  

 

 

[CjSuAvE22]

"sliding. When a runner slides feet or head first, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. " here's the rule for you guys since we seem to be talking about it a lot....how can you argue against the call if this is the rule im still confused, Heinicke slides his knee hits the ground and the ball is clearly short of the end zone, now had he dove head first he prob would have scored since his body would have hit the ground while the ball broke the plane or was in the end zone...but he clearly didn't do that.

[The Rook]

6 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

"sliding. When a runner slides feet or head first, the ball is dead the instant he touches the ground with anything other than his hands or his feet. " here's the rule for you guys since we seem to be talking about it a lot....how can you argue against the call if this is the rule im still confused, Heinicke slides his knee hits the ground and the ball is clearly short of the end zone, now had he dove head first he prob would have scored since his body would have hit the ground while the ball broke the plane or was in the end zone...but he clearly didn't do that.

 

Here is my "what if" - ball on the two (or forty-two) - QB draw out of the shotgun - QB stumbles forward on take-off - knee hits ground without him being touched.  I guess he could be called down.🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Thinking Skins]

Has anybody mentioned Rex saying we'd win the division the year we went 5-11? Or Beck maybe that same year and all the interviews he gave that off-season and how bad he looked. I mean that 10 sack game has to place right?

 

Then there's McNabb with the whole band. 

 

People talk about Gus and his head butt and yeah for me that ranks not because he hurt himself but because he was playing like a pro bowlers before that. He then took himself out of the game, we got a tie. And he never NEVER returned to that level of play. There is Gus pre head butt and post head butt and it's not even close. 

 

But Heath was a bag of rocks. And we all knew it but he kept going out there and it was we embarassing.

[Voice_of_Reason]

Gus literally knocked himself out of a game the team needed to win to make the playoffs.  
 

That is going to win 100% of the time.  
 

Kirk’s kneel down was ridiculous. And as some posters (I can’t remember who) pointed out, if you watch the film, Jay’s story falls apart.  
 

TH’s play was stupid because he failed to actually score, then got stuffed.

 

Sigh.  They all make me cry. 

[tmandoug1]

I got it.....I got it.....the most boneheaded play would be thinking they would actually win here.....

[tmandoug1]

On 10/26/2021 at 1:56 AM, FootballZombie said:

 

Every QB slide and kneeldown technically.

 

See it often enough over the course of a year, its just usually not right in front of an endzone. If a runner "gives themselves up" they are down where they hit the ground (outside of a QB slide where it is where the slide begins)

this one sticks out in my mind the most.

 

 

I've seen it prevent Turnovers a bunch. Whenever a QB fumbles while getting trucked while sliding they are offered the same protection. Since they are "giving themselves up" the ball dies when they start the slide.

 

The rule even existed in some capacity in the past, as any player, like say D. Hall, could take a knee in the middle of a field to kill the ball. same idea

 

The hurtful thing is that it puts the onus on a ref to decide if a player is "giving himself up". That involves determining intent which is dangerous.

 

 

It feels stupid b/c it was a forward dive, but TH went down of his own accord and was clearly short of the goaline. If the ref determines his intent, it was the correct call.

I guess the plainest way to explain this would be when the QB takes the snap and puts his knee on the ground to end the play.....plays over as soon as his knee touches. Can't pick and choose when to use the rule.

Edited October 28, 2021 by tmandoug1

[mistertim]

11 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Gus literally knocked himself out of a game the team needed to win to make the playoffs.  
 

That is going to win 100% of the time.  
 

Kirk’s kneel down was ridiculous. And as some posters (I can’t remember who) pointed out, if you watch the film, Jay’s story falls apart.  
 

TH’s play was stupid because he failed to actually score, then got stuffed.

 

Sigh.  They all make me cry. 

 

I think it was the Lambeau Leap that put TH's play into this category. Otherwise it would have just been a dumb mistake that happens every once in a while. But he pushed the turbo button and did a celebration after doing something stupid.

[FootballZombie]

On 10/26/2021 at 4:13 PM, The Rook said:

Here is my "what if" - ball on the two (or forty-two) - QB draw out of the shotgun - QB stumbles forward on take-off - knee hits ground without him being touched.  I guess he could be called down

 

Depends on 2 factors

 

1.) Puts to onus on the ref to determine why the player went down. If it was clearly a "turf monster" incident and he was obviously not touched/tripped then no ref will blow the whistle and the play is not over, unless...

 

2.) The player stays down, thus giving himself up.

 

As long as the player quickly fights for more yards, than incidental tripping on grass does not end a play. The main thing is that it is on the refs to decide both the reason the player went down, and if they are trying to fight for more yards after the fact.

 

D Jones infamous grass gobble was a pretty good example of this. He clearly got turf monster'd as no one was close to him, and he fought for and was awarded the extra yardage, getting the ball at the 8 instead of the 14 where he face-planted. This play shows that as long as it is determined that a player does not go down of his own accord to protect himself/end a play, then it is ongoing. 

 

 

Again tho, like the catch rule, your putting a lot on the ref. Anytime you force them to determine intent of a player (was he trying to initiate a football move? was he giving himself up? ect.) its going to be murky

 

 

Players giving themselves up is usually an easy call that we see 30x times a week across the NFL. Its just that in most situations it is easy for the refs to determine intent. instances such as:

-Nobody has to touch a RB who falls over at the end of a game to stay inbounds and kill clock

-Nobody has to touch a RB who falls over to prevent himself from scoring

-Nobody has to touch a WR who stays down after a reception for an extended time.

-Nobody has to touch a kneeling or sliding player

 

In each scenario, the play is over.

 

Its those situations where intent may not be crystal clear that are problematic. Was TH protecting himself from contact w/ that dive? Even if he is also extending for the goaline, your putting the onus on the ref to determine intent, so such calls will be made.

Edited October 28, 2021 by FootballZombie

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I think it was the Lambeau Leap that put TH's play into this category.

It's the package deal on this one for sure.  The LL afterwards and the bonus of fumbling and failing to score after the TD was overturned.

[Voice_of_Reason]

57 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it was the Lambeau Leap that put TH's play into this category. Otherwise it would have just been a dumb mistake that happens every once in a while. But he pushed the turbo button and did a celebration after doing something stupid.

Yeah, but he didn't LITERALLY knock himself out of the game by giving himself a concussion.

 

I think if Gus hadn't concussed himself, then you could argue with a variety of other dumb plays. 

 

But when your celebration results in a self-inflicted concussion and having to miss a half of football?  I mean, you cannot make this stuff up.  Jeff Hostetler had to come in and play.  

 

TH's was stupid.  But it's kindof like the dummies who drop the ball at the 1 yard line as a fumble before actually scoring, which has happened a few times.  Completely stupid.  

 

But not the "I'm going to knock myself out" level of stupid. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Voice_of_Reason

[justice98]

I gotta go with Gus because his bonehead play had the potential to affect other games after that that he had to miss and Hostetler had to start.  Now, Hostetler went 2-1 in those games, but on principle, taking yourself out of commission for several weeks trumps a momentary impact during one game, IMO.