The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Here are some highlights that show a lot of the things I discussed above about Maye. 
 

I think people will fall in love with Daniels/Williams but I think they both have higher bust potential (Williams makeup/Daniels accuracy issues). To be clear, I like them both. Just not as much as Maye. 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy

[Dexter]

4 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

Frankly I am relieved they made the change at QB. Sam is fried. I also think he has been mismanaged. Simply the ratio of runs to passes was mind-boggling to me. But many have already talked about that on this board.  I still maintain it is difficult to know who he could be.  Maybe a sports psychologist could help him. And I am not joking about that.  He has two more years left here with a whole new regime coming in.  Anything can happen. 

Totally agree.....I certainly agree we have mismanaged him with this pass happy approach.  I am super impressed with how he handled himself most of the year.  But Sam looks defeated and has taken some hits to his confidence for sure.  I do think he can still excel with a more balanced approach.

 

It would be dreadful to see him attempt to battle pissed off 49ers and Cowboys teams.  The top pass rush teams in the league who have come off of bad loses....no thank you.  No use of putting Sam in a whole he can't get out of.

[DazedSkinsfan]

46 minutes ago, Dexter said:

Totally agree.....I certainly agree we have mismanaged him with this pass happy approach.  I am super impressed with how he handled himself most of the year.  But Sam looks defeated and has taken some hits to his confidence for sure.  I do think he can still excel with a more balanced approach.

 

It's almost criminal how this staff mismanaged Howell. Not upgrading the oline certainly didn't help. 

[RWJ]

22 minutes ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

It's almost criminal how this staff mismanaged Howell. Not upgrading the oline certainly didn't help. 

Spot on.  Look at his stats at NC where Maye played at.  His and Mayes stats are very similar.  If Maye would have played behind this Oline, he would be in the same position.  Don't ya think? People need to ask themselves that question.  Having a mobile QB that has qualities that can't be taught is a gift not something learned.   

Edited December 28, 2023 by RWJ

[skinsmania123]

29 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Spot on.  Look at his stats at NC where Maye played at.  His and Mayes stats are very similar.  If Maye would have played behind this Oline, he would be in the same position.  Don't ya think? People need to ask themselves that question.  Having a mobile QB that has qualities that can't be taught is a gift not something learned.   

100%. I completely agree.  Any rookie or first year player would have struggled behind this line AND the play calling of EB. I have now looked at some of Maye's tape and yeah, they are "very similar."  

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Here are some highlights that show a lot of the things I discussed above about Maye. 
 

I think people will fall in love with Daniels/Williams but I think they both have higher bust potential (Williams makeup/Daniels accuracy issues). To be clear, I like them both. Just not as much as Maye. 

 

 

appreciate your sharing this....I've never seen Maye play before.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy said:

Yeah, I don’t see the Palmer comp at all really. And I liked Carson.

 

Maye has much better pocket awareness than DJones and I think more twitch in his running style (I know you’re simply speaking on mobility…I added the pocket awareness)

 

He’ll also make some “magician” type throws that remind me a bit of Aaron Rodgers. Side arm/pitch ahead kinda stuff. 
 

I’ll get crucified for saying this, but I think Peyton Manning is a better comp than Carson Palmer. No…I don’t think Maye is as good of a prospect as Peyton, I just see more similarities in their play. 

 

I like Maye and I’ve watched a lot of him at this point.

 

To each their own but he doesn’t remind me much of Peyton.

 

Payton was an uber accurate pocket QB with average arm strength and lacked mobility.

 

 I think the Herbert comps are close. 

Maye’s weaknesses for the moment are his inconsistent accuracy and being prone to sacks. But he has really intriguing traits - arm strength, mobility, quick release and accuracy on the 2nd level.

 

Hes not from what I’ve read the Alpha personality that Peyton is but sounds like he’s a good dude 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like Maye and I’ve watched a lot of him at this point.

 

To each their own but he doesn’t remind me much of Peyton.

 

Payton was an uber accurate pocket QB with average arm strength and lacked mobility.

 

 I think the Herbert comps are close. 

Maye’s weakness for the moment is his inconsistency accuracy and being prone to sacks. But he has really intriguing traits - arm strength, mobility, quick release and accuracy on the 2nd level.

 

Hes not from what I’ve read the Alpha personality that Peyton is but sounds like he’s a good dude 

I agree with most of your posts as you know, SIP.  One thing I will say is yes, Maye is fast and mobile but the quickness that Williams and Daniels have I don't think Maye has that.

[actorguy1]

Could we see a 2024 version of the 2004 draft day trade between the Chargers and Giants?

2004- Eli Manning drafted number one, Phillip Rivers drafted 4th. Manning refused to play for the Chargers so they swapped quarterbacks 

2024- Caleb Williams refuses to play for the Bears so he tells them to trade with Washington who would draft Daniels/Whatever player they want and then swap.

 

Chargers traded Manning—the No. 1 overall pick to the Giants. In exchange, San Diego received the following from New York: Philip Rivers, the Giants' third round pick in 2004 along with their first and fifth round selections in the 2005 draft. 

Edited December 28, 2023 by actorguy1

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I agree with most of your posts as you know, SIP.  One thing I will say is yes, Maye is fast and mobile but the quickness that Williams and Daniels have I don't think Maye has that.

Daniels by a good margin is the faster and quicker of the three.

 

Caleb of course is the most mobile laterally and off platform.

 

Drake as a runner again reminds me of Daniel Jones. Decisive runner and has decent speed.

[skinsmania123]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

To each their own but he doesn’t remind me much of Peyton.

 

Payton was an uber accurate pocket QB with average arm strength and lacked mobility.

Manning was a very cerebral player and boy could he decipher defenses and make adjustments at the line.  But Payton Manning threw "ducks" and I remembered him saying it once.  Manning said. "I do throw ducks. I've thrown a lot of yards and touchdown ducks, so I'm actually quite proud of it."

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maye’s weakness for the moment is his inconsistency accuracy and being prone to sacks. But he has really intriguing traits - arm strength, mobility, quick release and accuracy on the 2nd level.

That does almost make him comparable to Howell doesn't it.  Inconsistency, propensity to sacks. Wow, we certainly don't need to put him behind this O-line, or anything resembling it.

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hes not from what I’ve read the Alpha personality that Peyton is but sounds like he’s a good dude 

You know just the fact that Howell has kept in touch with him and has gone to see him play, and Howell being such a good guy, I could see it. If we do draft him, he would be a good character guy.  

[RVAskins]

7 hours ago, Jumbo said:

I'm thinking of changing my real name to Bo Nix. It's just too cool.😎

Bo knows.

[NoCalMike]

Fan base gonna blow up if EB calls 20+ run plays in the first half Sunday lol.

[Ball Security]

I was today years old when I realized Drake Maye is Luke Maye’s brother.

[zCommander]

8 hours ago, Est.1974 said:

Yeah I agree with this. All a bit ‘medium’ for me.

Yup. Maye is just a taller version of Howell. 

[zCommander]

 

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

Thanks you for your application for the role of GM. We have kept your details on file and wish you every success with your future endeavors…

 

🙂

 

 

Great all we need is a GM who hates Mazda as well.

[KDawg]

Maye is my favorite prospect of the three big ones… he’s by far the safest.

 

But I don’t think you go safe in the top 3.

 

So if I had my choice at who fell to us I’d take Daniels.

 

His bust potential is through the roof. But if he hits… he’s the X factor. 
 

I keep watching Williams games and even highlights to try to like him more. I just… don’t.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

1 hour ago, zCommander said:

Yup. Maye is just a taller version of Howell. 

Lazy take. I’m shocked. 😆

[Going Commando]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 I think the Herbert comps are close

Me too.  But he's better than Herbert was.  I see the NFL version of Josh Allen.  I also see Trevor Lawrence.  The way he runs and creates and tries to jump over dudes is Allen-esque, and he has better instincts than Herbert had.  Reminds of Lawrence when he's dealing in how he has such effortless and explosive vertical passing ability.  To be as efficient as he was, in an offense that frankly isn't any good, while also pushing the ball down field like they do, is special.  He carried a huge burden in that system, and made big plays look routine.

 

IMO the only QB prospects since 2013 that are better than Drake Maye are Burrow, Williams, and Lawrence.  I actually think he's a pretty easy call to be the #2 in this class, but I do also like Jayden Daniels and feel he's a worthy top five pick.

 

All three of these kids compare very comfortably to the best QBs in the NFL right now.  I think they are blue chip prospects that can absolutely be the foundation for a future contender.  The reservations I have with our team go beyond their quality. I still don't trust that this organization can develop a franchise QB and provide these kids with what they need to be successful here.  I dread watching us ruin the career of another one of these kids.  But I also understand that we have to try with one of them.  Passing on them because we can't develop them is giving up on competing.  And there is no such thing as conducting a rebuild without a long term QB in place.

 

If we end up with an opportunity to get Caleb Williams, he is the one I would want out of all three.  He'd have the best chance to succeed here IMO, because he's the best one.  His talent and creativity are so absurdly special that he has the best chance to thrive in a **** situation with minimal commitment and support.  But the only way he'll be in play for us is if he forces the situation like Eli did.  Why would he do that?

[FootballZombie]

47 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I still don't trust that this organization can develop a franchise QB and provide these kids with what they need to be successful here.

 

I'll worry more about that when given a reason to worry.

 

It will be a brand new front office, coaching staff and owner to boot. They don't get dinged for previous administrations failure to create a environment where a young QB can thrive. We may even go out and build a staff with guys who have a proven record of developing QBs if we are really confident that we are gonna draft one. Then it might be a strength.

 

As of right now, the hypothetical new staff has not proven they can develop a new QB, but they also have not shown an inability to do so either. We can't just assume it will be a massive problem before they even start.

[AlwaysBeRedskins2Me]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Daniels by a good margin is the faster and quicker of the three.

 

Caleb of course is the most mobile laterally and off platform.

 

Drake as a runner again reminds me of Daniel Jones. Decisive runner and has decent speed.

Decent speed? I still have nightmares about Daniel Jones burning us multiple times for 50 plus yard runs. Even our defensive backs struggling to catch up to him. Looking like the white Usain Bolt! 

[LetThePointsSoar]

9 hours ago, Ball Security said:

I was today years old when I realized Drake Maye is Luke Maye’s brother.

 

He's apparently got a hell of an athletic family all around... 

 

 

 

Drake Maye (from Wikipedia) 

 

Maye's father, Mark, played quarterback for the Tar Heels from 1983 to 1987. His brothers Luke and Beau played basketball for the Tar Heels, with Luke being part of the 2017 national championship team. Another brother, Cole, was a member of the 2017 Florida Gators baseball team that won the national championship. 

[DWinzit]

56 minutes ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Decent speed? I still have nightmares about Daniel Jones burning us multiple times for 50 plus yard runs. Even our defensive backs struggling to catch up to him. Looking like the white Usain Bolt! 

JDR let all the Giant QB's run through our D lie that whether Jones, Tyrod or Devito. They all looked like combinations of Bolt and Montana. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Me too.  But he's better than Herbert was.  I see the NFL version of Josh Allen.  I also see Trevor Lawrence.  The way he runs and creates and tries to jump over dudes is Allen-esque, and he has better instincts than Herbert had.  Reminds of Lawrence when he's dealing in how he has such effortless and explosive vertical passing ability.  To be as efficient as he was, in an offense that frankly isn't any good, while also pushing the ball down field like they do, is special.  He carried a huge burden in that system, and made big plays look routine.

 

IMO the only QB prospects since 2013 that are better than Drake Maye are Burrow, Williams, and Lawrence.  I actually think he's a pretty easy call to be the #2 in this class, but I do also like Jayden Daniels and feel he's a worthy top five pick.

 

 

As to pure hype, I'd agree Maye would be just after Burrow, Williams, Lawrence.  Not quite the arm strength of Josh Allen but otherwise I get the parallels.  And agree he carried a high burden in that system which will help him in the NFL.  

 

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

All three of these kids compare very comfortably to the best QBs in the NFL right now.  I think they are blue chip prospects that can absolutely be the foundation for a future contender. 

 

Agree.

 

8 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 The reservations I have with our team go beyond their quality. I still don't trust that this organization can develop a franchise QB and provide these kids with what they need to be successful here.  I dread watching us ruin the career of another one of these kids. 

 

I hit back on this point in the draft thread.  I don't get this point.  I know you don't mean it ths way but to me it unintentionally comes off almost complementary of Dan Snyder.  That the problem with the organization is just about holistic historical Washington Redskins-Football Team-Commanders issues.  Dan was just another symptom, not better, not worse alone the ride.

 

Dan wasn't a symptom of the disease.  He was the disease.  And its not even remotely a debatable point.  There is no other side to the discussion.  This team in the mid to late 70s through the early 90s was one of the finest organization in sports and well run with two legendary coaches and a hall of famer GM.

 

Dan Snyder was a douche on sterioids who infused the bad culture and hired people especially in the FO who sucked, were unqualified and yet interferred to no end.  Jay Gruden among others talked about it plenty.  He couldn't cut players he wanted to cut. 

 

He was forced players he didn't want.  One of the key FO people even admitted that the FO didn't even factor the coaches system when acquiring personnel.  The owner and a politician running the FO would overrule the coaches in personnel and even gameday decisions.  Dan would jock sniff his favorite players and undermine the coaches.  And they'd run that building like Darth Vadar -- with fear and create a scapegoating atmosphere.  People were underpaid and hated working there.  And that's before delving into the sexism and apparently culture of cheating fans out of money and the NFL too. 

 

Dan wouldn't give a rats ass about who was in that FO because he was often the defacto GM or his best buddy du jour.  They paid much less then league average for scouts.  They were cheap across the board.  The facility was a piece of garbage.  They served the players peanut butter and jelly sandwiches as dinner on the team plane.  Lunch was cheap junk food at the facility until Shanny changed it.  RG3 among others got hurt on their piece of crap field which they refused to upgrade until recent years. 

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg about Dan.  I don't recall you posting much on the Dan-Bruce threads so maybe you aren't as familiar with the depth of the dysfunction and his specific stamp on just about all of it.  It was beyond insane.  I'd put money we'd get a Netflix 6 part series on it someday.  And people who covered the team said it was much worse than just the stories that came out.  It's not a Washington Commanders thing -- its a Dan Snyder thing.  This team was for God sakes investigated by Congress and the dysfunction became a national story.  To say that Dan was epically bad would be an understatement.   

 

Now, We are about to get rid of the vistages of Dan's regime.  To expect anything similar to what's happened feels beyond crazy to me.  I know you don't like Harris' GM hire for 76ers.  But no one compares anything he's done there or elsewhere to Dan Snyder.  By almost every account, he's the opposite of Snyder. A nice guy, competent, doesn't interfere and spends every dollar he can on facilities, scouting and anything the team needs.

 

And even if for whatever reason you don't believe that -- whether you love him, hate him, no one accuses him of being dysfunctional like Dan.  lol, he does have two media critics (the rest love him) and one of the critics hits him over and over again mostly because he doesn't interferre and wants him to interferre but doesn't accuse him of being a bad person.   At a minimum this organization should be at least average.

 

According to the players the team has already made major strides in making life better for them.  They had a meeting to talk about what they can do to make things better for families and in that facility already made some improvements.  And will build a brand new facility soon.  They've already hired a sports science guy to help them with nutrition and recovery.  Spent almost $100 million to improve the stadium and about to spent a lot more.  They are just getting started. They didn't take over until a month before the season.

 

But expect at a minimum this organization to function like a normal organization versus the worst run organization in sports.  They are about to for the first time hire a pedigreed GM and put real money into scouting.  And then the GM will hire the HC.  At least that's what some reporters with ties to the organization have been told.  Though its consistent with what he's done elsewhere.  But even if you are thinking "meh", Dan Snyder was in his own orbit as the worst owner in sports.  He was the problem.  100% of it.

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[FootballZombie]

1 hour ago, AlwaysBeRedskins2Me said:

Decent speed?

 

Credit to D Jones.  Dude put down a 4.81 at the combine but that sho' don't translate to tape.

 

Dude is like the definition of game speed over combine speed. He should not be able to stay ahead of guys the way he does. Looks almost like a 4.5 guy.