The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

He’s from DC though. He’s got plans… Schemes. He keeps talking about getting back together with his old friends. You know, "the gang," he likes to call them. Yeah, you know, they're hatching something, you can count on that.

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Captain Wiggles said:

 

It certainly couldn't be the fact Howell has been sacked sixty times and ya still call an offense that throws the ball 65% of the time now huh Eric? 🤣

 

What a ****ing idiot. I hope he goes back to KC and remains a position coach for the rest of his career. Dude has zero business being in charge of anything. 

How much has he been sacked the last month?

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah it was one thing when that 2nd tier was getting paid 25 million or so.  But that's now headed to 35-45 million range with the high ends to 50-60 million.   

 

A rookie QB is more valuable than ever.

 

@wit33 i think might finally have his thought happen which is the mid tier veteran price tags come down or at a minimum you can't pay some outrageous sum for a mid tier QB. 

 

 

Veteran players need to start engaging with their franchises with a shift in mindset, transitioning from a sense of entitlement to embracing a partnership and demonstrating gratitude. 
 

Must stop looking up at the elite salaries and look down to the bargain rookie contracts. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The QB spot salary wise is going well beyond incremental inflation range which is making the point how valuable a top 8 type of QBs are -- teams that have them will pay whatever it takes to keep them thus pushing these salaries up.

 

Outrageous. 
 

Or a guy like Flacco making $1mil or whatever providing every bit the same value of a Carr or Wilson making 30-40x what he makes. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But in turn, its making the rookie Qb salary an even bigger money cheat code.  And likewise it would make this team look even dumber for not taking a QB high in this draft assuming they like one.

5 years at a cheap salary is wildly valuable in the current QB landscape. I especially like the supremely athletic QB in this scenario, treat him like a RB early on and hope he develops as a passer late in his rookie deal. Obviously, if you have an all world guy who can operate within and outside the pocket I’ll take that over anything. 

 

1 hour ago, Jumbo said:

All those NFL guys who passed on eb knew what they were doing. Eb was apparently somewhat useful in his bubble-wrapped role on Reid's staff, safely cocooned and limited.

 

But there were always well sourced questions as to just how much a factor he was in unassisted scheming 

 

I think keeping his name alive as an hc candidate and puffing up his cred was an Andy pet project with good motives.

 

His ceiling is likely not as bottom line deficient as I think he's been here, but I sure hope he's on the bus with everyone else that Ron hired.

 

 

I wonder what portion of NFL fans, collectively, believe that their team's Offensive Coordinator lacks football knowledge and is just clueless. My guess it exceeds 70%. 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by wit33

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

How much has he been sacked the last month?

Particularly the last few weeks, he’s been bailing before that can even happen.  There was only two ways things could go, get sacked into injury or the mental toll would break him.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

16 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I wonder what portion of NFL fans, collectively, believe that their team's Offensive Coordinator lacks football knowledge and is just clueless. My guess it exceeds 70%. 

I don’t think it’s so much lacks football knowledge as it is coaches doing what they want to do as opposed to what’s right for their personnel.  This goes for coordinators on both sides of the ball.  At minimum, I expect my coordinators to install game plans that marry their strengths with attacking weaknesses.  We’ve seen very little of that with EB.

[wit33]

20 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Particularly the last few weeks, he’s been bailing before that can even happen.  There was only two ways things could go, get sacked into injury or the mental toll would break him.

 

 

 

Not saying there's no truth to coaches overwhelming QBs, but I'd rather see that issue come up early so we can move on from a QB who might struggle. That's just my take—I'm not into a QB who can't handle the heat in the NFL.

 

I believe mediocre  coaches (80%)  often times hold players back, aiming for average to keep their high-paying gigs. I'm all about taking risks, being bold, and going for elite status instead of playing it safe for a fat paycheck.

 

10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think it’s so much lacks football knowledge as it is coaches doing what they want to do as opposed to what’s right for their personnel.  This goes for coordinators on both sides of the ball.  At minimum, I expect my coordinators to install game plans that marry their strengths with attacking weaknesses.  We’ve seen very little of that with EB.

 

Which recent Washington coordinator do you think has performed up to your standards?
 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I believe mediocre  coaches (80%)  often times hold players back, aiming for average to keep their high-paying gigs. I'm all about taking risks, being bold, and going for elite status instead of playing it safe for a fat paycheck.

I don’t think EB dropping Sam back a million times qualifies for what you are getting at.  There’s nothing bold about choosing to throw it a million times against every team no matter what their weaknesses are, that’s just dumb.

 

Something tells me he will make it an emphasis to run the ball this weekend though.  I fully expect a change from EB with only two weeks left for him to try and impress other teams, now that he’s got the scapegoat out of the way.

 

And no, I don’t believe it’s a conspiracy, it’s more about survival.

 

15 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Which recent Washington coordinator do you think has performed up to your standards?

McVay, maybe even Cavanaugh for a stint.

 

While I wasn’t a big Turner fan, at least he would adjust and adopted game plans that aligned with what his team could do, ie: hiding Heinicke.  I didn’t enjoy watching it but it showed that he was adapting based on the hand he was dealt.  EB simply doesn’t do this.  It’s alarming to hear he spends so much time at the park and still rams his head into the wall over and over every Sunday.

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[wit33]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think EB dropping Sam back a million times qualifies for what you are getting at.  There’s nothing bold about choosing to throw it a million times against every team no matter what their weaknesses are, that’s just dumb.

 

Throwing the ball around 65% of the time, especially with a second-year QB, is a pretty daring move.

 

Do you differ in your view of the strategic style resembling that of Andy Reid's offense? I'm not suggesting that Eric Bieniemy (EB) operates at Andy's level, but Andy once encountered similar criticism during his Eagles days, reaching a point where Eagles fans were okay with him moving on.

 

 

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

While I wasn’t a big Turner fan, at least he would adjust and adopted game plans that aligned with what his team could do, ie: hiding Heinicke.  I didn’t enjoy watching it but it showed that he was adapting based on the hand he was dealt.  EB simply doesn’t do this.  It’s alarming to hear he spends so much time at the park and still rams his head into the wall over and over every Sunday.

 

I get it, but I’m a sucker for an all in approach to most anything lol 

 

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Not really, no. But it’s all conjecture on our part. Decision makers will have an idea if it’s true or not.

Yes but good leaders can work with that. Bad leaders can’t.

[CapsSkins]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m not interested in a diva type of QB. They rarely work out.

 

 

Aaron Rodgers is a diva and he's going to have a bust in Canton when he hangs 'em up. Brady and Peyton had diva-like tendencies.

 

It is true that most QB prospects in general do not become franchise guys. But if they perform at the highest level, nobody will care if they're a diva. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Throwing the ball around 65% of the time, especially with a second-year QB, is a pretty daring move.

 

Do you differ in your view of the strategic style resembling that of Andy Reid's offense? I'm not suggesting that Eric Bieniemy (EB) operates at Andy's level, but Andy once encountered similar criticism during his Eagles days, reaching a point where Eagles fans were okay with him moving on.

All throws are not created equal.  Perhaps if it begun with schemed up easy short to intermediate throws to get the QB in a rhythm, but I haven’t seen much of that.  

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Aaron Rodgers is a diva and he's going to have a bust in Canton when he hangs 'em up. Brady and Peyton had diva-like tendencies.

 

It is true that most QB prospects in general do not become franchise guys. But if they perform at the highest level, nobody will care if they're a diva. 

None of them had real diva tendencies until later in their careers. 

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

None of them had real diva tendencies until later in their careers. 

Seems like an excuse for poor coaching and leadership IMO. 

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Aaron Rodgers is a diva and he's going to have a bust in Canton when he hangs 'em up. Brady and Peyton had diva-like tendencies.

 

It is true that most QB prospects in general do not become franchise guys. But if they perform at the highest level, nobody will care if they're a diva. 

I don’t really view Rodgers as a diva. He has that rep because he’s opinionated. But I don’t see diva with him. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don’t really view Rodgers as a diva. He has that rep because he’s opinionated. But I don’t see diva with him. 

If he's not a diva QB, then they don't exist. 

 

[DWinzit]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I don’t really view Rodgers as a diva. He has that rep because he’s opinionated. But I don’t see diva with him. 

I do. He acts like a little biatch. 

One easy example would be the player signing demands to the Jets

[Est.1974]

19 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

Aaron Rodgers is a diva and he's going to have a bust in Canton when he hangs 'em up. Brady and Peyton had diva-like tendencies.

 

It is true that most QB prospects in general do not become franchise guys. But if they perform at the highest level, nobody will care if they're a diva. 

Absolutely. Who cares. It’s about winning. 

[CapsSkins]

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t really view Rodgers as a diva. He has that rep because he’s opinionated. But I don’t see diva with him. 

 

I don't mean his eccentric sociopolitical views, I mean his demands on coaching and personnel decisions. That's diva behavior IMO.

[Est.1974]

Maybe they just want a nice guy QB, that’ll do.

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

I don't mean his eccentric sociopolitical views, I mean his demands on coaching and personnel decisions. That's diva behavior IMO.

He’s a diva, 100%.

[wit33]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

I don't mean his eccentric sociopolitical views, I mean his demands on coaching and personnel decisions. That's diva behavior IMO.

This would be most hall of fame QBs, no? 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, wit33 said:

This would be most hall of fame QBs, no? 

 

And now we are inching towards the epiphany moment! If all Hall of Fame QBs are divas, then worrying about your QB being a diva is moot.

 

You worry about diva WRs because they are toxic in the locker room. They demand targets and yards even if that isn't what's best for the team. QB is a different position - they touch the ball on virtually every offensive snap. There is generally no scenario where the QBs numbers suck but the team is winning. The closest you get is QBs who don't throw the ball away or take chances to protect their completion % or TD:INT ratio. But QBs are the one position judged by wins, and in truth they are as close to a hybrid "player-coach" as you get. They are not the typical position.

 

The diva concern for QB is whether the diva traits prevent the player from reaching his true potential. That was RG3's undoing. And I do understand that concern - but that's where the evaluation process becomes critical. A guy who works his butt off and studies and is wholly committed but paints his nails and cries in the stands is one thing. A guy who cares more about filming commercials than studying the playbook is another.

[KDawg]

16 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

If he's not a diva QB, then they don't exist. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I do. He acts like a little biatch. 

One easy example would be the player signing demands to the Jets

 

14 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

 

I don't mean his eccentric sociopolitical views, I mean his demands on coaching and personnel decisions. That's diva behavior IMO.

Do we know he demanded any of that? I know the online communities came to that conclusion. I never saw any concrete evidence that he demanded any of it.

 

In fact, on the Pat McAfee show awhile back he specifically said those things weren’t true. The Jets asked him for recs and he gave them. 
 

So, I’m not sure if any of that is true or if this is a media driven BS story. Could be true, I suppose, but I don’t know.

 

Most of his former teammates really have liked him. I don’t view that as diva behavior if your teammates like you (for the most part).

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Coincidence 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Do we know he demanded any of that? I know the online communities came to that conclusion. I never saw any concrete evidence that he demanded any of it.

 

In fact, on the Pat McAfee show awhile back he specifically said those things weren’t true. The Jets asked him for recs and he gave them. 
 

So, I’m not sure if any of that is true or if this is a media driven BS story. Could be true, I suppose, but I don’t know.

 

Most of his former teammates really have liked him. I don’t view that as diva behavior if your teammates like you (for the most part).

 

There are definitely players that don't like him. There are stories of these elaborate hand signals Rodgers would use and expect everyone to know, but wouldn't teach to new guys. So those players would somehow have to learn them on their own, without even knowing what it is that they don't know (the classic "unknown unknown", not to go Donald Rumsfeld on everyone).

 

That strikes me as petty and immature diva behavior from #12. But when you perform like he did in his prime, nobody bats an eye! 

[KDawg]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

 

There are definitely players that don't like him. There are stories of these elaborate hand signals Rodgers would use and expect everyone to know, but wouldn't teach to new guys. So those players would somehow have to learn them on their own, without even knowing what it is that they don't know (the classic "unknown unknown", not to go Donald Rumsfeld on everyone).

 

That strikes me as petty and immature diva behavior from #12. But when you perform like he did in his prime, nobody bats an eye! 

Eh. I don’t buy it. Sorry.

 

When I refer to diva I refer to people that are egotistical and non chalant. RG3 is a fantastic example (though he seems a lot more humbled as of late)

[Skinsinparadise]

With Aaron there are many stories, including from some who played with him that he's diva like.  

 

I heard some reporter mention recently that behind the scenes Mahomes is very high maintenance.

 

Russell Wilson, too.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Skinsinparadise