The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Then theres really no point of having him on the roster. Burrow had the worst Oline in the league and made the SB. A good QB can massively help an Oline. They need to find an answer on him this year if they are staring a top 3 pick in the face. (They should still take the QB top 3 regardless of Howells play) 

Burrow also had his ACL torn his rookie year.  I'd prefer not to have a rookie take a beating for no reason.

 

The reason he's on the roster is to learn and develop this year and take Heinicke's place as backup next year.  

 

Though if the OL play continues, you're going to see Wentz, Hienicke (probably for about 3 quarters before he is obliterated), Howell, and then probably a few other guys who aren't even on the team yet.  It's that bad.  Wentz at least is a huge tough guy, so he can take the pounding and keep playing, but he's not going to last forever.  He's proven to be durable over the past 4 seasons, but you can only take body blow shots for so long before something breaks.  

 

So yeah, I don't want Howell anywhere near the field.  It's impossible to tell how good Wentz is behind this atrocious line, it will be doubly hard with Howell.

 

And don't give me the "QB makes the OL better" garbage in this situation.  Tom Brady couldn't make our guards and center not lose within 1.5 seconds.  QBs can help the OL by getting the ball out quick and escaping if they have to hold the ball for a split second longer than they are planned to.  Good QB play does not stop the fact your RG gets run over.  There's literally nothing a QB can do about that except what Wentz is doing already, which is fling the ball in the direction of the WR and pray and he's mashed into the turf.

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Winning some games is more possible than some believe IMO.  This feeling right now is almost EXACTLY what it felt like Ron's first two seasons.  His teams here and in Carolina have mostly started poorly.   I don't think this team is going anywhere.  but it felt that way last season too with the abysmal start, then they started winning.

 

I personally don't want a 8-9 season, I'd rather have a 4-13 one.  Get that stud player, preferably QB. 

Ron returns, isn’t going to be any better. Next year.

[Zim489]

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Burrow also had his ACL torn his rookie year.  I'd prefer not to have a rookie take a beating for no reason.

 

The reason he's on the roster is to learn and develop this year and take Heinicke's place as backup next year.  

 

Though if the OL play continues, you're going to see Wentz, Hienicke (probably for about 3 quarters before he is obliterated), Howell, and then probably a few other guys who aren't even on the team yet.  It's that bad.  Wentz at least is a huge tough guy, so he can take the pounding and keep playing, but he's not going to last forever.  He's proven to be durable over the past 4 seasons, but you can only take body blow shots for so long before something breaks.  

 

So yeah, I don't want Howell anywhere near the field.  It's impossible to tell how good Wentz is behind this atrocious line, it will be doubly hard with Howell.

 

And don't give me the "QB makes the OL better" garbage in this situation.  Tom Brady couldn't make our guards and center not lose within 1.5 seconds.  QBs can help the OL by getting the ball out quick and escaping if they have to hold the ball for a split second longer than they are planned to.  Good QB play does not stop the fact your RG gets run over.  There's literally nothing a QB can do about that except what Wentz is doing already, which is fling the ball in the direction of the WR and pray and he's mashed into the turf.

 

 

Then fine. Dont count on Howell at all for any future plans. The next staff should proceed like howell doesnt exist.

[DJHJR86]

Maybe the next time we get a quarterback, whether its via trade, draft, or free agency, and there are actual legit struggles and areas of concern in training camp and the preseason...we should maybe take those more seriously.  Because it happened with Smith.  It happened with Haskins.  It happened with Fitzpatrick.  And it happened with Wentz.

[Redskins 2021]

Maybe we should have took Pickett? I think he will be at least top 15.

 

I thought this team was alot closer to competing then we are. We are probably closer to a rebuild. I still think it was the right move we will lose a third round pick but there was no other way to get Wentz. There were no other Qb to get and if we waited for him to be release he would not have signed here. Season not over let's see how next three games go.

 

Probably should take Young if we are picking in top 2. Young looks like he can scramble which will be needed with this line.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[ExoDus84]

Rivera in his presser, "It takes time. Doesn't happen overnight".

 

Dude, you're in year 3. How much longer are you going to use the "it takes time" scapegoat? If you're in your third year as coach, and the team is playing like a bottom 3 franchise, that's on you pal.

 

Good coaches don't need 5-7 years to turn a program around.

Edited October 3, 2022 by ExoDus84

[Riggodrill44]

6 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I will admit it when I'm wrong, I was wrong about Wentz. He just doesn't get it. He reminds me a lot of RG3, how he backups up into rushers instead of stepping up in the pocket. He refused to change the call to run on 3rd and 2 when Dallas had 8 men in the box verses our 5 lineman. On the other hand, Cooper Rush was calm, he checked down, he audibles, and threw beautiful 50/50 jump balls.  

 

But, we had to bring someone in other than Hienicke. The draft sucked, so it was really between Trubisky, Jimmy G, or Wentz. We made a move and it didn't work. 

Rush got baled out by the referees. 2 horrible picks.

I wonder 💭 n practice is Sweat running around Cosmi like the rest of the DE’s.

 

If he’s not, he needs to be cut. If he is , Cosmi needs to be cut.

 

I believe Ron is watching this happen and lying to himself.

[88Comrade2000]

3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

If we bag the Wentz experiment and do get these picks you noted someone in ownership/management is gonna need to decide who makes our picks, trades and signings moving forward as this offseason is looking like a compilation of bad decisions. If we did move on from RR how would you like to see Eric Bienemy brought in just to fix the offense alone? That's extreme but we need someone who's had offensive success to come in here and fix this roster/offense. I'm sure Bienemy would be a serious upgrade to what we have now....move RR upstairs, name him President and get someone in here who's had success in a winning organization. 

EB is a figurehead. Reid runs KC’s offense,

 

Ron needs to go into retirement.

[NoCalMike]

If you want the QB throwing the ball quicker, a good thing to do might be designing plays for that.  McLaurin and now Dotson are known for being great route runners, who can create space not just by running by the secondary, but running precise and tight routes, so where are the quick slants that are thrown/caught at the top of a 3 step drop and only 3-5 yards downfield allowing the WR to run in space after the catch?  There just seems to be a whole lot of open field missing from Turner's playbook right now. 

[theTruthTeller]

27 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

If you want the QB throwing the ball quicker, a good thing to do might be designing plays for that.  McLaurin and now Dotson are known for being great route runners, who can create space not just by running by the secondary, but running precise and tight routes, so where are the quick slants that are thrown/caught at the top of a 3 step drop and only 3-5 yards downfield allowing the WR to run in space after the catch?  There just seems to be a whole lot of open field missing from Turner's playbook right now. 

Your post made me think of something else that bothered me during the game.  Jourdan Lewis, who's a decent CB, was injured early in the second half and replaced by DaRon Bland, who is a rookie drafted in the 5th round from Sacramento St (I looked it up - it is Division 1, FCS).  He made the pick on the slant at the end of the game, similar to what you are describing, but any decent QB would have seen him just sitting there.  Why didn't the coaching staff go after him as soon as Lewis was injured?  I think it was his first playing time in the pros and he's from a rinky dink school.  Why let him get comfortable?

[Hooper]

2 hours ago, ExoDus84 said:

Rivera in his presser, "It takes time. Doesn't happen overnight".

 

Dude, you're in year 3. How much longer are you going to use the "it takes time" scapegoat? If you're in your third year as coach, and the team is playing like a bottom 3 franchise, that's on you pal.

 

Good coaches don't need 5-7 years to turn a program around.

 

Infuriating.

 

I've seen and heard more than enough from Ron to know he's not the answer.

 

Nice man, I'm sure. But the failures are on him. This isn't Jay, where he wasn't allowed to pick the groceries. 

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Plays with urgency to me is akin to comments like plays with hair on fire, moxie, etc. Subjective descriptions to describe a player when the actual stats don’t look good at all.

 

In TH’s last 6 starts, he ran the ball a total of 15 times for a total of 37 yards.  He also took 16 sacks during that time.  2 of those games were against Dallas, where he went a combined 18-47 passing with 243 total yards, 2 TDs, 8 sacks, 3 picks, and a fumble lost.

 

In the final game of the season, the Toilet Bowl against the lowly Giants, who couldn’t even spell the word defense last season - he was 9-18, 120 yards passing, 0 scores and 2 rushes for 3 yards.

 

I totally understand you guys being unhappy with the results thus far and how Wentz has played.  But Wentz being bad doesn’t make Heineke good.  There’s a lot of selective memory going on with some of the folks from the Hive.  Let this post serve as a reality check.  The lot of us who get labeled as Heineke haters don’t hate the dude at all, but we don’t let the few really cool Heineke moments cloud our judgment- we remember the futile offense that he ran more often than not.  

 

What we are seeing with Wentz now from opposing defenses is very similar to how they played Heineke.  Bring everyone up tight, disrupt at the LOS, throw off the timing and he will be a sitting duck.  The inability to block negates the only positive Wentz really has and that’s the ability to let it rip. 

Worth remembering that Roullier did not play in those 6 starts.  Cosmi missed weeks 11-13, 16, and 18.  Scherff missed weeks 14, 15 and 18.  And two of those 6 games were rough matchups against Dallas’ D.  Also worth noting he didn’t have Logan Thomas, McKissick, Samuel, Dotson, and that Gibson wasn’t fully healthy.  

Personally, I wonder how much an impact Covid had on him as well, but to be fair, he really didn’t run the ball much last last year, and I have no idea why… probably the best part of his game.

 

I still believe Wentz is a significant upgrade over Heinicke, but if we can’t keep Wentz upright/give him time to make use of his arm/deep ball, I don’t see the point of having him out there.  With that said, I’m pretty confident TH won’t see the field this year unless it’s due to injury.  And to be clear, while I’d root for TH if he were out there, I don’t think he has any sort of future with the team.  Howell is the one I’m interested in seeing.

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Worth remembering that Roullier did not play in those 6 starts.  Cosmi missed weeks 11-13, 16, and 18.  Scherff missed weeks 14, 15 and 18.  And two of those 6 games were rough matchups against Dallas’ D.  Also worth noting he didn’t have Logan Thomas, McKissick, Samuel, Dotson, and that Gibson wasn’t fully healthy.  

Personally, I wonder how much an impact Covid had on him as well, but to be fair, he really didn’t run the ball much last last year, and I have no idea why… probably the best part of his game.

When I typed my post up, I was thinking “did I really just spend my time citing Heineke’s stats? Shame on me” and here you come taking the next step with a record of who was missing each game.  😂

That was pretty much the Hive’s rally cry most of the season.  I get the impression you all will get your chance soon enough to see Heineke under center with a full deck. 
 

So yay, we all have that to look forward to.  😒

 

 

[kingdaddy]

Steelers announce they're rolling with Pickett regardless of the putrid offensive line that can't create holes for Najee Harris. Time to go to Howell in DC.

[BraveWarrior]

I don't know, guys. I'm really confused, because I'm still moved by Danny's "we finally have QB" quote. 

 

This is on Ron. He brought in depth guys for the line, and named them starters (Norwall, Turner). They're second stringers on most teams. Carson could have a fantastic season if he could just stay upright. Very few QBs are going to live up to their potential throwing off their back foot all the time. In the meantime, Turner could start dialing up more quick, three step drop plays - screens, slants, etc. Gibson and McKissick could be dangerous in the flat. Also, what happened to Curtis Samuel? They used him in a number of ways in game one. I don't recall seeing too much from him in the Dallas game. 

[NoCalMike]

Anyone watching the Rams vs 49ers?  I'd like to see Wentz behind that 49ers O-line, it's like Jimmy G can just stand there and wait for the same 2 routes to be ran by his WRs every time. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[FLSkinz83]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

LOL

[skinny21]

47 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

When I typed my post up, I was thinking “did I really just spend my time citing Heineke’s stats? Shame on me” and here you come taking the next step with a record of who was missing each game.  😂

That was pretty much the Hive’s rally cry most of the season.  I get the impression you all will get your chance soon enough to see Heineke under center with a full deck. 
 

So yay, we all have that to look forward to.  😒

 

 

Lol, yeah, I’m a “context matters” kinda guy.

 

It’s why I haven’t bagged on Wentz too much (oline play).  I will say I found it odd that a lot of posters threw out context with Heinicke at the end of last year for “those last 4 games are who he is” or “the league has figured him out” narratives.  Regardless, as I said (not sure if you caught it), Heinicke isn’t the one I want to see out there.  

 

Personally, I don’t know that it’s fair to lump the “Heinicke isn’t good, but maybe he could provide a spark” or the “why did we trade for Wentz when TH could give us roughly the same (lack of) production” types with the last one or two die hard “Hivers”.  

 

While I’d love to see Howell put into the game and producing (ie, giving us a glimmer of hope for the future), probably the more realistic hope is that the oline gels a bit, face some more favorable matchups, and Wentz gives us production closer to the good 1.5ish games he’s played.  Or that Wentz plays out the season and we wind up with a high draft pick.  

 

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

4 hours ago, Riggodrill44 said:

Rush got baled out by the referees. 2 horrible picks.

I wonder 💭 n practice is Sweat running around Cosmi like the rest of the DE’s.

 

If he’s not, he needs to be cut. If he is , Cosmi needs to be cut.

 

I believe Ron is watching this happen and lying to himself.

They were two horrible throws yes. However, the flags were the correct call. 

[88Comrade2000]

Poor Jim. You will never have the success that you did under Manning ever again.

[Cooleyfan1993]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

How legit is that twitter account though? I feel like I’ve seen tons of things from that account that turn out to be complete BS……

[BraveWarrior]

41 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Anyone watching the Rams vs 49ers?  I'd like to see Wentz behind that 49ers O-line, it's like Jimmy G can just stand there and wait for the same 2 routes to be ran by his WRs every time. 

Yep. Watching and thinking the same thing. 

[tomwvr]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

He may be a worse owner than danny boy

[Conn]

Just now, tomwvr said:

He may be a worse owner than danny boy

no