The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[DJHJR86]

On 2/17/2022 at 8:53 AM, DWinzit said:

Translation-The Colts brought in a guy they were familiar with and knew was talented.

He turned out to be a mitigated disaster with commitment issues and no team should waste their time or money on him.....This means you especially Washington.

 

Aged wonderfully.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[DJHJR86]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:49 AM, DJHJR86 said:

Wentz is easily the best quarterback this team has had since Cousins.

 

This is certainly becoming debatable now.  

[petey hodge]

[Cooleyfan1993]

^yeah cause that’s definitely not the 5th time I’ve seen that image on here since yesterday…….please, keep posting it and make me even more miserable 😂

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

By nearly every advanced metric, he’s around 27th-32nd. I’ll admit it I was wrong on him. First off, his mobility is completely shot. He’s basically a statue. And most importantly, I underrated how football stupid he is. I thought as a neutral observer the last few years that he simply believed in his arm too much. No, he just has very little awareness of the situation around him. 

[Zim489]

2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

There is absolutely no way on God's Green Earth I am putting a rookie that has any upside whatsoever on the field with this OL and watch him get the Patrick Ramsey treatment and never recover.  

Then theres really no point of having him on the roster. Burrow had the worst Oline in the league and made the SB. A good QB can massively help an Oline. They need to find an answer on him this year if they are staring a top 3 pick in the face. (They should still take the QB top 3 regardless of Howells play) 

[CobraCommander]

2 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

By nearly every advanced metric, he’s around 27th-32nd. I’ll admit it I was wrong on him. First off, his mobility is completely shot. He’s basically a statue. And most importantly, I underrated how football stupid he is. I thought as a neutral observer the last few years that he simply believed in his arm too much. No, he just has very little awareness of the situation around him. 

We seem to have a lot of stupid players don't we?

[Mr. Sinister]

8 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

By nearly every advanced metric, he’s around 27th-32nd. I’ll admit it I was wrong on him. First off, his mobility is completely shot. He’s basically a statue. And most importantly, I underrated how football stupid he is. I thought as a neutral observer the last few years that he simply believed in his arm too much. No, he just has very little awareness of the situation around him. 

 

Can't believe I long for the days of Brunell, who'd throw the ball away if somebody farted near him.

[tomwvr]

3 hours ago, Daniel.redskins said:

I will admit it when I'm wrong, I was wrong about Wentz. He just doesn't get it. He reminds me a lot of RG3, how he backups up into rushers instead of stepping up in the pocket. He refused to change the call to run on 3rd and 2 when Dallas had 8 men in the box verses our 5 lineman. On the other hand, Cooper Rush was calm, he checked down, he audibles, and threw beautiful 50/50 jump balls.  

 

But, we had to bring someone in other than Hienicke. The draft sucked, so it was really between Trubisky, Jimmy G, or Wentz. We made a move and it didn't work. 

We could have gone after the next tier of qb and been as good as we are with wentz and not have spent all the draft capital  

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Side note - if Wentz is benched before hitting the 70% mark, the 3rd rounder we lose should be at least somewhat offset by the comp pick we should get for Scherff (and I’m guessing we get a later round comp pick for Ioannidis as well?).

If we bag the Wentz experiment and do get these picks you noted someone in ownership/management is gonna need to decide who makes our picks, trades and signings moving forward as this offseason is looking like a compilation of bad decisions. If we did move on from RR how would you like to see Eric Bienemy brought in just to fix the offense alone? That's extreme but we need someone who's had offensive success to come in here and fix this roster/offense. I'm sure Bienemy would be a serious upgrade to what we have now....move RR upstairs, name him President and get someone in here who's had success in a winning organization. 

[oraphus]

We need to continue playing Wentz until the cliff of the 3rd rd pic. Then put Howell in.

We basically suck for a high QB pick next year since its a good class, so whoever the coach will be (Hopefully NOT Ron) they can have their pick of QB and we could start a rebuild.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, theTruthTeller said:

4. The OL is a huge problem for Wentz, but Wentz is a huge problem for the OL.  Wentz has no plan in the pocket.  If you can stomach it, re-watch yesterday's game.  Cooper Rush has no chance of ever being a full-time starter in the NFL and the only physical advantage he has over Wentz is that he is slightly more mobile.  But he succeeds because he is decisive.  And by decisive, I don't mean he dumps the ball off to a RB whenever he feels heat.  Dallas's OL has problems, too, at every position except RG and Cooper takes the heat off of them.

 

Part of the problem is coaching, for sure. But a guy going into his 7th year as a starter just has to be better than Wentz, especially if he is making close to $30M. 

Couldn't have said it better. In fact, I'm confident that both TH and Howell would be more decisive and make our O-line look better. If you watch Kyler Murray, Derek Carr and even Joe Burrow they are running for their lives a lot of the time but they find ways to buy time and make the necessary throws or use their legs to run. Wentz can't do any of this which will magnify the shortcomings of the offensive line. At least that's what I see. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, kingdaddy said:

Couldn't have said it better. In fact, I'm confident that both TH and Howell would be more decisive and make our O-line look better. If you watch Kyler Murray, Derek Carr and even Joe Burrow they are running for their lives a lot of the time but they find ways to buy time and make the necessary throws or use their legs to run. Wentz can't do any of this which will magnify the shortcomings of the offensive line. At least that's what I see. 

What makes you confident about that?

 

There is very little to support this opinion.  Heineke took 38 sacks last year when we had Flowers, Scherff and Chase. 
 

Heineke had a few games with some nice scrambles on broken plays.  I won’t take that from him.  But it wasn’t something we saw with regularity or that was ever successful against good defenses.  He was the 8th most sacked QB last season.

 

You mention Burrow, the most sacked QB in 2021 and Carr was up there as well.  Kyler Murray is a different animal altogether.  All 3 of these guys are also clearly better than Wentz of whom we had zero ability to acquire.  
 

Howell is as green as it gets.  I cannot think of a better way to ruin this kid than to put him out there with the line in the shape that it’s in currently.
 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I ****ing can't believe I am seeing people (not necessarily here, but here, too) pine for Taylor Heinicke.

 

As far as a draft pick next year, they'll just **** that up.  There's no point.

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I ****ing can't believe I am seeing people (not necessarily here, but here, too) pine for Taylor Heinicke.

 

As far as a draft pick next year, they'll just **** that up.  There's no point.

People have short memories. The offense was inept with Heinicke too. And his mobility is overrated.

[JSSkinz]

I cannot watch another 13 games of Wentz, it brings back memories of all the bad QBs this team has had in the past and it creates a feeling of hopelessness for the season. I'm not a Heine Stan but for the love of God don't make us suffer watching Wentz continue to play with zero pocket presence and poor accuracy.

Edited October 3, 2022 by JSSkinz

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Zim489 said:

Then theres really no point of having him on the roster. Burrow had the worst Oline in the league and made the SB. A good QB can massively help an Oline. They need to find an answer on him this year if they are staring a top 3 pick in the face. (They should still take the QB top 3 regardless of Howells play) 

I hate to say it, but you actually have a point. If we want to get Howell on the same trajectory as Burrow, we need to play him now and get his ACL, MCL, and PCL torn. Nobody can deny that this is the offensive line to accomplish that.

 

Break a leg, Sam. Literally.

 

Edited October 3, 2022 by NickyJ

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

People have short memories. The offense was inept with Heinicke too. And his mobility is overrated.

 

Absolutely.  On both points.  

[kingdaddy]

32 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

What makes you confident about that?

 

The fact that TH at least plays with some urgency and will at least look to take off if given the chance. This used to be part of Wentz's game but it seems it's gone, almost like he got old and slow overnight. TH and Howell both have running the ball in their repertoires and they're all we have right now outside of CW. 

I also remember what Willie McGinest said about TH a year ago when he noted that TH's wheels give defenses a whole other dimension to plan for and that d-linemen don't like chasing QB's like him around. His words, on the NFL Network I believe. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Predicting next NFL QBs to get benched: Why Steelers were first

Pittsburgh Steelers

Tomlin is one of football's best coaches. I don't like disagreeing with the 50-year-old Steelers leader, because he has more than earned whatever benefit of the doubt he needs over the past 15-plus seasons. I might take issue with some of his game management decisions at times, but just because I don't think he's necessarily the most analytics-focused coach in the league doesn't mean he can't be aggressive at times or make wise choices. You don't go 15 years without a losing record by not being a smart operator.

With that being said, I'm not sure I understand how and why Tomlin made the choices he has made over the past two weeks at quarterback. After Trubisky struggled for the third straight week in a 29-17 loss to the Browns in Week 3, Tomlin publicly refused to even consider the possibility of changing his quarterback in advance of Sunday's game against the Jets. After suggestions earlier in September that the Steelers might keep Pickett on the bench for the entire season, it seemed as if Tomlin wasn't close to making any sort of change

• 10hNFL Nation

And then, down 10-6 at halftime Sunday, he suddenly changed his mind. Trubisky came out, Pickett went in. With Tomlin saying he felt like the team "needed a spark," Pickett might have burned too hot. The rookie went 10-of-13 for 120 yards and scored two rushing touchdowns in his debut, but he threw three interceptions, including a pick on a Hail Mary to end the contest.

It's fair enough for Tomlin to say the team needed a spark. I just have one follow-up question: What changed? The Steelers won the opener against Cincinnati, but it required five takeaways, a blocked extra point and an injured long-snapper. Trubisky wasn't a meaningful part of the offense. In Week 2, they scored 14 points on nine drives in a loss to the Patriots. Four days later, Trubisky & Co. scored 17 points on 10 meaningful drives in their loss to the Browns. Didn't they need a spark then, too? Wasn't it clear they would need a spark against the Jets before the game began?

 

Washington Commanders

Whatever honeymoon there might have been between Commanders fans and new quarterback Carson Wentz appears to be expiring. During the first two weeks, a frantic pace and plenty of possessions led them to produce impressive raw numbers in games against the Jaguars and Lions. Wentz, Curtis Samuel and Antonio Gibson all looked revitalized.

Over the past two weeks, the pace has slowed, in part because the Commanders haven't been able to sustain drives. Against the Eagles in Week 3, they didn't have a single drive with more than two first downs before the fourth quarter. On Sunday, against the Cowboys, Wentz & Co. had only one drive with more than two first downs in 13 tries.

 

Teams can succeed playing that way if quarterbacks are hitting huge chunk plays for touchdowns, but that is not the case for Wentz right now. Over the past two weeks, he is 50-of-85 (58.8%) for an anemic 381 yards, an average of fewer than 4.5 yards per attempt. His average completion over that period has traveled 4.2 yards in the air, 31st in the NFL.

Some of that naturally owes to the fact Wentz has needed to get the ball out for survival. Against the Eagles, he was sacked a whopping nine times and knocked down 17 times on 52 dropbacks. Some of those sacks were attributable to his offensive line, which struggled to match power and stop bull rushes against Philadelphia's excellent front four, but he is also part of the problem. His well-known issues with holding the ball too long and taking unnecessary hits feed into the line's problems.

 

When he has been pressured this season, Wentz has been a disaster. His 4.6 QBR under pressure ranks 26th, as he has gone 14-of-37 for just 135 yards. He has taken a league-high 17 sacks in those situations, and Wentz's minus-11.8 completion percentage over expectation (CPOE) ranks 25th.

Wentz was sacked only twice during the loss to Dallas, which was a step in the right direction. On the other hand, keeping him from avoiding those sacks limited the Commanders to quick game and short passes. On throws traveling 10 or more yards in the air, he was just 3-of-12 for 55 yards with a touchdown and two interceptions.

 

Oh, the interceptions! Right. That was the other issue for Wentz during the down points of his career, and he had two of them Sunday. One was poor placement on a bomb just before halftime, when he put a pass where only cornerback Trevon Diggs could catch it. The other was a hallmark for Wentz going back to his rookie season with the Eagles, with him trying to throw a dig over the middle of the field, only for it to be undercut by rookie defender DaRon Bland. Wentz now has five interceptions and three fumbles across four games, which isn't a winning formula for Washington, even if he does occasionally float a beautiful pass into the end zone for a score.

Successful NFL quarterbacks avoid sacks and takeaways, stay on schedule and hit big plays. Teams can get by without doing one of those three as long as they do the other two. Right now, Wentz isn't doing any. I don't think the team has soured on him yet, but he can't continue playing this way for an entire season without running the risk of losing his job.

Washington paid a surprisingly large draft pick haul to acquire Wentz from the Colts, but that's a sunk cost by now. He can be cut after this season without any dead money on the Commanders' cap, saving them more than $26 million in cap and cash next year. We just saw the Colts anoint Wentz as their savior and then trade him after a season because they didn't want to be on the hook for the remainder of the his guarantees, which ran out after 2022.

 

The bigger issue might be figuring out whether there is someone ready to replace Wentz. Taylor Heinicke was inconsistent at best in replacing the injured Ryan Fitzpatrick a year ago, and it was clear that coach Ron Rivera wanted to upgrade on Heinicke at any cost this spring. I'm not sure he's on this roster as much more than a backup on game day if the starter gets injured.

The third-stringer is rookie fifth-round pick Sam Howell out of North Carolina. He impressed in stretches during the preseason, when he led the team in both passing yards (547) and rushing yards (94). Howell posted only an 85.8 passer rating during the preseason while playing inferior competition to the other passers, but the organization seems more interested in him than those numbers indicate.

If Wentz proves he's not the quarterback Rivera craved this offseason, the Commanders could see if Howell is worth starting in 2023. Unless Wentz totally craters further in the weeks to come, though, that move likely would not occur until the second half of the season

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/34715065/predicting-next-nfl-qbs-get-benched-steelers-panthers-commanders-texans-change

[CobraCommander]

Last thing we need a spark from a backup QB. Start Wentz until the trade clause about owing other picks kicks in. Hopefully we will have some terrible interim coach by then.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

43 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

The fact that TH at least plays with some urgency and will at least look to take off if given the chance. This used to be part of Wentz's game but it seems it's gone, almost like he got old and slow overnight. TH and Howell both have running the ball in their repertoires and they're all we have right now outside of CW. 

I also remember what Willie McGinest said about TH a year ago when he noted that TH's wheels give defenses a whole other dimension to plan for and that d-linemen don't like chasing QB's like him around. His words, on the NFL Network I believe. 

Plays with urgency to me is akin to comments like plays with hair on fire, moxie, etc. Subjective descriptions to describe a player when the actual stats don’t look good at all.

 

In TH’s last 6 starts, he ran the ball a total of 15 times for a total of 37 yards.  He also took 16 sacks during that time.  2 of those games were against Dallas, where he went a combined 18-47 passing with 243 total yards, 2 TDs, 8 sacks, 3 picks, and a fumble lost.

 

In the final game of the season, the Toilet Bowl against the lowly Giants, who couldn’t even spell the word defense last season - he was 9-18, 120 yards passing, 0 scores and 2 rushes for 3 yards.

 

I totally understand you guys being unhappy with the results thus far and how Wentz has played.  But Wentz being bad doesn’t make Heineke good.  There’s a lot of selective memory going on with some of the folks from the Hive.  Let this post serve as a reality check.  The lot of us who get labeled as Heineke haters don’t hate the dude at all, but we don’t let the few really cool Heineke moments cloud our judgment- we remember the futile offense that he ran more often than not.  

 

What we are seeing with Wentz now from opposing defenses is very similar to how they played Heineke.  Bring everyone up tight, disrupt at the LOS, throw off the timing and he will be a sitting duck.  The inability to block negates the only positive Wentz really has and that’s the ability to let it rip. 

Edited October 3, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I’ve literally been posting in threads like this since I was 16 years old. I turn 30 in January. Nothing has changed lol 

 

That is truly sick. I wonder what would happen if a mod grabbed an old Campbell or McNabb thread and replaced their names with Wentz. There would probably be little difference lol