The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Chris 44]

40 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Obviously not comparing Wentz to Brady or anything, but look at the Superbowls that Brady didn't win and what was the common denominator? A D-line and pass rush that could get after him.  It didn't turn him into a terrible QB, but there was a major difference between a Tom Brady that had to avoid/feel the pass rush a handful of times a game behind a wall of an O-line and a Tom Brady that had to constantly be worried about being hit if not sacked.   Whether you are a Top 5 QB or right smack in the middle of the pack for starting QB's int he league, if you play behind a poor O-line it is going to affect your play.  Certain QB's have more tools in their arsenal to get around poor O-line play, but that doesn't mean the O-line play isn't poor.  

Unless your name is Patrick Mahomes your take is spot on!

[kingdaddy]

6 hours ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

 

Not yet, for me they'd have to improve the O Line first if the O line can be stabilised (unlikely) and Wentz is still faltering, I'd initially move to Heinicke to ensure that Wentz doesn't get above that 70% snap count that means we have to give Indi a second. Then maybe give Howell a cameo or two towards the end of a lost season to see how how responds

Next 4 games for Pittsburgh: @ Bills, Bucs, @ Miami, @ Philly

- They're throwing their prized 1st round pick, Pickett, to the wolves and we're worried about playing Howell? This is football...if he can show that he can read defenses pre-snap then put the kid in and run the football ad nauseum. Feed BRob and live on the ground while picking play action spots to throw. It can work. If Heinicke can jump into a playoff game against Brady and the Bucs then Howell should be just fine with a controlled playbook. He may even surprise many people like he did in his first preseason game. 

[Isifhan]

1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

Heard this today (Ross Tucker): less than two years ago the Eagles finished 4-11-1, now they have arguably the best roster in the NFL from top to bottom. Roseman is getting credit for reshaping the roster, starting with dealing Wentz.

Why can't that happen in DC? 

There have been plenty of opportunities where we could have stocked up in draft capital but we were too stupid or too vengeful to do it.  Got nothing for Kirk, much less than we should have gotten for Trent the list goes on. We just don't have the foresight or the will to trade players that we know won't be in our future plans.  You can't think someone is a building block of the team then proceed to ruin the relationship and ultimately get nothing. Combine that with poor drafting and well there you go.  We never have committed to a rebuild, it's a constant dance of "we're almost there". We've been almost there for 20 years. 

[FootballZombie]

16 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Next 4 games for Pittsburgh: @ Bills, Bucs, @ Miami, @ Philly

 

Jeebus that's a gnarly murderers row.

 

Cohones on Tomlin to make a move staring that down.

Hard to question a guy with that history of success tho. He sees Kenny every day too, so who knows.

 

If he can swim instead of sink against that, he's pretty set.

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, Isifhan said:

There have been plenty of opportunities where we could have stocked up in draft capital but we were too stupid or too vengeful to do it.  Got nothing for Kirk, much less than we should have gotten for Trent the list goes on. We just don't have the foresight or the will to trade players that we know won't be in our future plans.  You can't think someone is a building block of the team then proceed to ruin the relationship and ultimately get nothing. Combine that with poor drafting and well there you go.  We never have committed to a rebuild, it's a constant dance of "we're almost there". We've been almost there for 20 years. 

If we’ve been almost there for 20 years, that means we’ll finally be there in….let’s see, 2, carry the 1……..****. I’ll be dead by then! 

[Conn]

1 hour ago, Chris 44 said:

Unless your name is Patrick Mahomes your take is spot on!

Even then, they spent this offseason letting Tyreek go and rebuilding the OL because the only times Mahomes has ever looked human is when he is overwhelmed with pressure in the playoffs. So even he is an example. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Why can't that happen in DC? 

[Zim489]

 

[Cooleyfan1993]

9 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

 

So what I’m getting from this is Kyle Allen would’ve taken us to the promiseland  

 

cant try to tell me otherwise  

[lovemaskins]

2 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

Unless your name is Patrick Mahomes your take is spot on!

You mean the same Pat Mahommes that got smoked in Superbowl LV 31-9 and didn’t score a touchdown.  The same Mahommes whose stat line was 26/49 for 270 2 ints, 3 sacks.  Kansas City didn’t have either starting tackle that night, maybe just a coincidence… the Chiefs spent the last 2 years rebuilding it for some weird reason.  
 

But surely veteran Carson Wentz should “elevate” this offense single-handedly…

[Jbird7]

18 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

You mean the same Pat Mahommes that got smoked in Superbowl LV 31-9 and didn’t score a touchdown.  The same Mahommes whose stat line was 26/49 for 270 2 ints, 3 sacks.  Kansas City didn’t have either starting tackle that night, maybe just a coincidence… the Chiefs spent the last 2 years rebuilding it for some weird reason.  
 

But surely veteran Carson Wentz should “elevate” this offense single-handedly…

first 2 games he did..... historically.

[srtman04]

I really don't blame Carson at all for the offense...I think he is better than what we are actually seeing, and we already have flashes of what he can do and the throws he can make.   They need to get this man a REAL O-LINE PRONTO.   

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

So what I’m getting from this is Kyle Allen would’ve taken us to the promiseland  

 

cant try to tell me otherwise  

I still carry a torch for Kyle Allen over TayTay. It's a hill I'll never die on because nobody would care to fight me over it, but it's my hill.

[DJHJR86]

As it stands right now, Kyle Allen absolutely was the best quarterback under Rivera.  Granted it was a limited sample in 2020, but even in relief of Heinicke in 2021, I felt he looked better and his throws weren't as erratic.  

[zCommander]

JP did an interview with Ron after the lose to Cowboys. The audio is at 11:29 am segment. They talk about OL and Wentz and everything else as well. 

 

https://www.audacy.com/stations/thefandc/shows/bmitch-finlay-506e1/episodes/fdbe5b24d32d

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

JP did an interview with Ron after the lose to Cowboys. The audio is at 11:29 am segment. They talk about OL and Wentz and everything else as well. 

 

https://www.audacy.com/stations/thefandc/shows/bmitch-finlay-506e1/episodes/fdbe5b24d32d

Won’t load for me - footnotes please?

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Won’t load for me - footnotes please?

 

Try this link: https://art19.com/shows/washington-football

The interview is at the 15:10 mark. 

[CapsSkins]

Wentz gets 10 games to turn it around. Then you have to protect the 2nd round pick. If our record is in the 3-7 neighborhood, cut Wentz to avoid the distraction and start Heinicke the next 3 weeks - tell Howell he's going in after the bye and will get the last 4 games of the season.

 

^That's what should happen. And it likely aligns with Rivera's incentives to save his job as well - pivoting from the Wentz Experiment to selling Dan on the future with Howell.

 

Remains to be seen whether that's what happens.  

[50yrSKINSfan]

19 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Wentz gets 10 games to turn it around. Then you have to protect the 2nd round pick. If our record is in the 3-7 neighborhood, cut Wentz to avoid the distraction and start Heinicke the next 3 weeks - tell Howell he's going in after the bye and will get the last 4 games of the season.

 

^That's what should happen. And it likely aligns with Rivera's incentives to save his job as well - pivoting from the Wentz Experiment to selling Dan on the future with Howell.

 

Remains to be seen whether that's what happens.  

Great plan. Make CapsSkins the GW of the Skins.

Sorry, Make that GM not GW.

[50yrSKINSfan]

5 hours ago, Isifhan said:

There have been plenty of opportunities where we could have stocked up in draft capital but we were too stupid or too vengeful to do it.  Got nothing for Kirk, much less than we should have gotten for Trent the list goes on. We just don't have the foresight or the will to trade players that we know won't be in our future plans.  You can't think someone is a building block of the team then proceed to ruin the relationship and ultimately get nothing. Combine that with poor drafting and well there you go.  We never have committed to a rebuild, it's a constant dance of "we're almost there". We've been almost there for 20 years. 

Sadly, this is all true and you wonder why we stink?

[CapsSkins]

6 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

Obviously not comparing Wentz to Brady or anything, but look at the Superbowls that Brady didn't win and what was the common denominator? A D-line and pass rush that could get after him.  It didn't turn him into a terrible QB, but there was a major difference between a Tom Brady that had to avoid/feel the pass rush a handful of times a game behind a wall of an O-line and a Tom Brady that had to constantly be worried about being hit if not sacked.   Whether you are a Top 5 QB or right smack in the middle of the pack for starting QB's int he league, if you play behind a poor O-line it is going to affect your play.  Certain QB's have more tools in their arsenal to get around poor O-line play, but that doesn't mean the O-line play isn't poor.   Two deep shell

 

Fixed that for you

[zCommander]

Ron doing a 1 on 1 with JP Finley after the Dallas lose. I did an audio to text dump (after installing a software) so you will see some grammar and stuff. You can listen to the entire podcast in the link posted in my previous post. I wanted to post what was relevant to this thread for anyone who didn't get a chance to listen or had any issues with the link. 

 

Ron: I'm honestly I'm I'm pisssed off and I'm a little frustrated... frustrated with the injuries was frustrated with with with with doing stupid silly things that that hurt us as a team I'm angry because I think we're better than that that we've played all that together I mean because I get it but this this time and I'd like to believe this time that that we start to see the incremental growth that I'm looking for especially this time around. 

 

JP: What is preventing it then?
 
Ron: Well I think the injuries have a little bit to do with it OK just to be fair but we have to we have to be better I mean we we get into certain situations and we miss a play and it compounded because then we have another bad play whether it's a penalty whether it's a missed tackle a missed opportunity to stop a big play and explosive or we miss we drop a ball we miss a throw we miss a block it's just that little thing. What keeps me going is when you look at these oh if we make that block look at the seven round you know you sit there and you go Terry's coming wide open and that's gonna be a big play, you know man how can we not intercept that ball we're right there man we intercept the ball we got caught for this phone when the little things continue to mount up like that do you get to a point where you have to consider

 

JP: When the little things continue to mount up like that do you get to a point where you have to consider bigger changes?

 

Ron: Yeah you do I mean it's it's it's it's something that you know we have to address if it gets to that point and we're getting close to be honest I mean be honest we're getting close why because the thing I have to make sure is that when we get to this point I went through this in Carolina you get to this point you have to determine if what's going on is liability.

 

JP: I go back a couple of years ago when you made a change with Haskins at that point and you're like I owe it to the other 52 guys on this team I'm not suggesting that you're there with Carson but between Carson and the OL line the last two weeks there has been real trouble and and and it seems like one isn't complimenting the other how can you get that back on track?

 

Ron: Like we saw against Jacksonville I think running the football like we did I think if we can go out and do it again now all of a sudden in everybody's mind is gonna play us is like whoa we gotta pay more attention to this we gotta focus on this that's what makes your your play action game so much better and that's one of the things that we've got to get to is we gotta be more consistent I you know it's funny I pointed that little streak we had where we you know where we beat Tampa, beat Carolina, we beat last year and we beat the Raiders and in that stretch we ran the ball an average six more times a game than our seasonal average and we were able to run our play action better and that bought us time that bought us an opportunity to move the ball and and control the clock keep our defense off the field a little bit longer we played better as a whole team that has to be the mentality that has to be we can't sit here and think that you know our best players are receivers and we gotta spread them out and get the ball in their hands all the time because now what happens is it allows the defense to focus on one thing and it's putting your ears back and just going now all of a sudden we're saying look we're spreading the ball that was always been an emphasis on I do believe you spread the ball around whether it's to running backs running the ball or to the receivers catching the ball or them getting involved part of the run game tight ends getting vertical stuff like that that helps your overall team and that is what we have to do.

 

JP: Do you have to talk to Scott about that?

 

Ron: Oh yeah we've talked about that and it's something that we you know but sometimes the situation in game dictates you do something sure and and as we looked at going into this last game based on what happened weeks two and there is like hey this is what we're gonna focus on because we struggle doing something different we're gonna focus on this we ran the ball well enough to win that game we just gotta do everything else better.

 

Talked to Carson about knowing when to knowing when to let it loose and not take the groundings great conversation he's you know he's he's a stand up guy he took responsibility and hey there's some things he's still learning to him we can help we can help him we can make things a little different a little easier perhaps maybe do something a little bit more as far as running the ball that takes pressure off quarterbacks you know.

 

JP: Some of the reputational stuff that preceded Carson coming here from Indy Philly as an observer as somebody who you know I'm relatively close to it I've talked to Carson plenty I haven't seen any of the reputational stuff none of the lack of responsibility or accountability any of that. I've seen the opposite in fact but some of the volatile play the highs and the lows I have seen that.

 

Ron: Well I think his biggest thing is he wants to try and make all the plays that's why he holds on to the ball that's why I think he he doesn't just ditch it right away he wants to see if he can get that ball downfield maybe that's something that you know in our conversations we can get through to him I said hey look if if you have that's fine we'll live with that will give us a chance.

 

JP: Is he receptive when you have those conversations?

 

Ron: Great, he really has it's like you said all that reputational stuff has this is not who he is he's a young man that wants to succeed in a bad way he's gonna do everything he can but when do you need to see it happen on the field as well and and you want to see it happen as as we continue to progress we saw it we saw you know in in in in the early drive and you know going quick decisions being made getting the ball distributing the ball and then the soft touch pass to Jahan for the touchdown that's what he's capable of in a clean pocket they'll give you an interesting stat too I just saw this there was you know there was the analytics come out know that in the second week of the season OK I know it's early but second week in a clean pocket he was leading the league just shows you that if we can give him time we can create that opportunity for him to to be in the pocket be comfortable he can get that ball down field.

 

[Conn]

It’s way funnier reading that and imagining that it isn’t a product of a program messing up the grammar but is in fact just the way Rivera talks lol 

 

The content is worrisome. His laser focus through the entire thing about how they just need to run the ball better and more often is ancient dinosaur bull****. Yes we need to run well to take some pressure off of Wentz and the OL. But the way he actually cited a specific stat about how in our 4-game win streak last year we averaged 6 more run plays than our seasonal average—that’s so reductive and worrisome that his mind works like that. It means ****ing nothing, not only because it’s a pretty small number over a pretty small sample size—but also because you’re going to run more when you actually have a lead!! He’s falling into that same trap that’s now a football analysis meme of “Team X is undefeated when so and so runs for 120 yards!” lol which ignores that having the lead at the end of the game encourages you to run more to kill the clock, etc. He also repeats multiple times that you need to run well to run PA, which is not at all the case according to every statistic in existence. Our PA game is brutally bad because the OL isn’t committing to making it look like a run play, not because we aren’t running the ball enough to set it up. Play Action works regardless if run correctly, when the blocks hold up. 

 

Anyways, it’s slightly good to see more urgency from him in knowing issues need to be solved. Not so good that he clearly believes running Brian Robinson 25 times a game is going to save his offense. Brutal imagining how bad this season could get if that’s as far along as he’s gotten with things, and if that’s the solution after his analysis. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Conn

[NoCalMike]

The running the ball thing I don't get. I mean I do get it in theory, but from what I've seen so far this season, the running game isn't really an issue and it's not that they aren't doing it enough, it's the fact that the O-line can't pass block, so defenses crowd the line and cheat the defense up to help stop the run.   They have run the ball just fine on every defense they have faced so far until those defenses figure out that they are running the ball to protect the passing game from imploding.   It'd be different if they weren't having success running the ball and/or weren't even trying it, but they do, and it works, until it doesn't. 

 

Also, the running game slowly goes away when you are playing from behind by more than single possession in the second half, that's usually always how it is.

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Conn said:

It’s way funnier reading that and imagining that it isn’t a product of a program messing up the grammar but is in fact just the way Rivera talks lol 

 

Yeah. I meant like periods and commas and stuff and maybe some words that the program didn't pickup correctly. I did change one word that didn't make any sense to me. 

 

"he's a young man that wants to succeed in a bad wife " 

 

I had to go back and listen and he says in a bad way...lol.