The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[The Rook]

I believe that Carson Wentz will have problems with attacking/blitzing defenses such as Dallas.

 

Of course, most QB's do have problems with that, but I am not real confident with his fast-processing attributes.🤔

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook 

[Number 44]

16 minutes ago, The Rook said:

I believe that Carson Wentz will have problems with attacking/blitzing defenses such as Dallas.

 

Of course, most QB's do have problems with that, but I am not real confident with his fast-processing attributes.🤔

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/carson-wentz-record-vs-cowboys

[CommanderInTheRye]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

That bag Danny's goons delivered to RGIII to tank his book and start saying, "nice stuff about Mr Snyder and the team" must have been mega fat.

[Wyvern]

Do we really care what the media thinks? 

 

Look, Ryan will likely be a good fit as a "game-manager" QB for the Colts (and Frank Reich's) conservative offense.  Ryan's success will hinge on his O-line, TEs, and their upgrading of their WR corps. Wentz didn't have that great of a pocket, nor depth of quality WRs. -- right now it looks like Ryan may have a better selection , but roughly the same pass protection.  BUT .....WHO CARES?  We're not Indy fans.

 

However , as fans we need to recognize that Washington has hitched its 'playoff wagon' to Wentz.  It's a done deal.  So I don't see why we have to spend so much energy justifying that decision to the "mediots" or even caring what they think.  Nor do I see a reason why we have to spend so much energy debating the idea whether bringing Wentz onboard as the 2022 starting QB for Washington was essentially the final 'death-blow' to the franchise and to the F.O.  IMHO, Wentz is simply a slightly costlier (but younger) version of Fitzpatrick, and if he stays healthy we've got a decent supporting cast to be competitive with Carson at QB.

 

IMHO, Wentz will serve passably, assuming the O-line can give him decent amounts of time (and room) to do his part in the passing game.  He'll do better if his defense can be relied on, so he he doesn't have to play hero-ball. He's not Russell Wilson, or Aaron Rodgers .... but he will probably enough value to the Washington team, to keep it competitive in 2022.  Its more about how well the rest of the team gels -- especially the defense.  But if you want to have Wentz effective, he'll need a decent surrounding cast of receivers, and a reliable O-line to support both passing and running plays. (But if I see S. Charles on the O-line and pass a blocking to protect Wentz, I won't blame Carson for what happens next.)

 

Let's relax and not assume the only way for a team to have success in the NFL is with the perfect "franchise" QB, who is without flaws, can always carry the team on his back, and make up for whatever his defense and special teams happen to screw up.  It's a team effort, and while all the offensive plays start with the QB, there are a lot of very important teammates who contribute to the success of those plays and the final success of the game.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Wyvern

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

By the time the season starts between the national media/blogs, etc -- at this pace, Wentz will be considered a below average backup. 🙄

 

 

 

 

This is legitimately one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen. 

[TheShredder]

8 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So, this is most likely TH's last year on this team.  Will he get picked up elsewhere?

True.

I'd view him as a backup upgrade on a lot of teams.

I'm not going to look it up again, but I want to say NFL backups were making on avg. 4M after Case Keenum's deal a few years ago. TH is a bargain and he should be able to land another backup gig.

[TheShredder]

1 hour ago, Wyvern said:

He'll do better if his defense can be relied on, so he he doesn't have to play hero-ball.

Defense is a major weakness and was neglected and unimproved this off-season.

Probably the #1 Commanders issue. The OL is a question mark until proven otherwise with 2 new starters and all the injured centers. $.02

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, Chris 44 said:

If he was still at Indy they would rate him a solid 15th

 

Agree, I think much of that has to do with Indy trashing him.  The national media for as much as they hate Dan, they typically celebrate the off season moves for QB.  I liked Fitz and was happy with that signing but it floors me how most of the national media loved that move yet they hate this one. 

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Look, you can't really increase arm strength to the degree that TH needs to in order to be an NFL starting, week in and week out QB.  He might have worked on it a bit, it might have helped a bit, but there is nothing he could really do to give him the arm talent needed to be an NFL starter.  If there was, you'd see a whole lot more guys improve their arm strength over time.  You don't.  Chad Pennington, who could have been a top 5 QB, but had a bottom 5 arm (though still stronger than TH's), would have done anything to improve his velocity.  (Then he got hurt and was out of the league as a starter pretty quickly.)

 

What Taylor could improve is his mechanics, and more often get his "top velocity" on the ball because of the more consistent.  When he sets and throws and gets his legs into the throws, he can, at times, get some velocity on the ball.   So learning to throw from a proper base more often, better footwork, arm mechanics, etc. It's still not great, but it would help.  

 

But he's never going to be able to work himself even into an average NFL arm.  And the video cuts of Training Camp this year, and the reporting, both indicate that. And finally, QBs need to have the extra arm strength because they will have to throw when they can't step into throws, have to throw over and around defenders with odd arm angles.  

 

So, unless a team is in complete and total dire straights, and need a starter due to injury, there is no way TH sees the field for any team.  He wasn't going to last year until Fitz got hurt, he won't this year unless Wentz gets hurt.

 

The only time you see trades of backup QBs is if there is an OC who is familiar with them who takes a HC or another OC job and wants a QB who knows there system on the roster.  We traded for Todd Collins when we hired Al Saunders, and somehow got Rex (I can't remember, trade or FA) when we landed Kyle Shanahan.  That's not the case with TH, because Scott Turner is still here.

 

Ergo, no team is trading for TH under most scenarios.   

 

Now, if there was a serious injury in camp for some other team, and a starter was lost for the season, and the backup QB on their roster was either an unprepared rookie or they didn't think was good enough to start 17 games, and they wanted to bring in somebody with some starting experience who has shown mobility, fight, grit and the ability to make plays, might they give Ron a ringy-ding to see what it would cost to get Taylor?  Maybe.  But probably not, because the majority of TH's playing career has been for the Turner's who are some of the last coaches out there who use the number-based Coryell system, not the language based WCO.  So there would be a steep in-camp learning curve for Taylor. 

 

Is it possible?  Yeah.  Do I think it's likely?  No.

 

And TH has more value to THIS team than a 6th or 7th round pick. Or even a 5th round pick.  (If somebody offered a 3rd or 4th I'd grab it in a heart beat, but that's not going to happen.) He is a good backup who has played and knows the system.  If something happens to Wentz, he can go in and finish a game.  That is valuable, so I doubt they would trade him this year.

 

Now, it's also important to recognize they drafted his replacement.  You don't pick a QB in the 5th if you don't think they can at least ascend to the backup job in a year.  So, this is most likely TH's last year on this team.  Will he get picked up elsewhere?  Who knows.  Kyle Allen landed with the Texans shortly after FA started.  So, maybe. That will be a question for next year.  

 

 

I agree with this for the most part but we don't know the medical industry and the changes that it's making. I look at the injury landscapes like ACL injuries and Tommy John surgery which used to be career enders and now they're just bumps on the road. I don't think it's there yet but I do think that over the next decade or two we'll see more and more of these type of routines to improve arm strength with noticable results. 

 

Question is will it get the guy who could throw a max of 55 yards getting it 75? Cause it's that's the case what's to stop the guy who can throw it 75 from getting it 95? Maybe mechanics is the human body. But it's going to be interesting how this develops as a medical thing. 

[Wyvern]

SIP. I agree with your take on all this -- but in the end, does this pre-season media hype ( positive or negative) really matter to anyone?  Maybe to fans wanting to claim Washington "won" the off-season, or to folks putting together their fantasy football draft-board? 

 

I know its the slow-time of the off-season,, but I'm hoping we'll have more focus on the issues of defense, such as handling Del Rio's stalled upgrade at LB, or what happens while Chase is cooling his heels for the first 6 weeks. Then there's whether Samuels is actually a factor in 2022 season. But most importantly, I hear nothing but "hype" and fog about the TE position, but no answers on when/if Logan Thomas will be a factor the team can rely on.  . (Wentz is going to need a decent TE option, and right now,  there are no clear answers.)

 

As I've said earlier, this is not limited to purely a QB question. But I've more a concern of how fans' concentration/focus are being diverted away from pertinent broader questions impacting how well this team does in 2022.

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Wyvern

[NoCalMike]

I am pretty confident the offense is going to be better just from the fact that there are completions last year that simply couldn't be made due to physical limitations.  However, all the talk of dynamic this, explosive that?  I want to be all in, but we've had speed and quickness on the team before and got hyped over it.  I am not setting expectations anywhere beyond "offense will be better" until I see results on the field.

[mistertim]

I still get a kick out of how Matt Ryan is now apparently what would happen if you combined Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.

 

I wonder how the narrative will shift and who will be blamed if he completely underwhelms.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, TheShredder said:

True.

I'd view him as a backup upgrade on a lot of teams.

I'm not going to look it up again, but I want to say NFL backups were making on avg. 4M after Case Keenum's deal a few years ago. TH is a bargain and he should be able to land another backup gig.

Will he be a bargain next year? Or will he be asking for average backup money?  
 

His contract runs out at the end of this year so who knows what he will get on the open market.  If it’s a bargain, then that tells us the NFL doesn’t really see him as an upgrade to average backups.  
 

If it’s an average or better NFL Backup contract, that tells us the MGL sees him as an above average backup QB.

 

He might also not be picked up.  His biggest supporter has been Turner.  And unless he gets a HC job, it’s unlikely Turner will be on the market looking for a QB.  So somebody other than Turner needs to see his value and pay him.  It’s possible, but not a given that happens.  

 

[CommDownMan]

On 6/17/2022 at 12:52 AM, duffy said:

"Norway, situated in the Arctic Circle, is called the Land of the Midnight Sun, where from May to late July, the sun actually never sets. This means that for around a period of 76 days, the sun never goes down." 

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/travel/destinations/6-places-on-earth-where-the-sun-never-sets/photostory/85897694.cms

 

Wives are constantly trying to break this record....

[CommDownMan]

On 6/19/2022 at 3:50 PM, Commander Wolffe said:

Brian Robinson could be the best off-season addition outside of Wentz. 

 

More significant then the return of Samuel's and implementing Dotson. The bonus is the rave reviews about Dotson so far. Remember the noise about overdrafting him? He quickly put that **** to bed.

 

~Wolffe 

 

I didn't think he was overdrafted, but I need to see more than rookie camp tweets to agree with this part. 

[Commander Wolffe]

Sure.

 

Positive rookie camp tweets are much better then negative. Just ask the Titans. It's also nice to have a WR that has shown nuanced route running and has great hands.

 

Typically, we get "athletes" that lack polish and have suspect hands.

 

~Wolffe 

[TheShredder]

22 minutes ago, CommDownMan said:

 

I didn't think he was overdrafted, but I need to see more than rookie camp tweets to agree with this part. 

Kind of what I felt too. I'll be looking at Pre-season as an indication of potential value/expectations for 2022. I think you can do that with a RB.

[TheShredder]

43 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

So somebody other than Turner needs to see his value and pay him.

Let's hope he doesn't get more than 1 appearance in 2022. I'd tend to think he's getting signed somewhere in 2023, particularly if Wentz reaches expectations and is viewed as WSH franchise QB. At that point his value to WSH increases as short term backup regardless of Sam Howell's development.

[RWJ]

I haven't heard much about Sam Howell thus far.  Could be bad; could be good.  Any news out there about how he's been doing throwing, hitting his WRs in stride, etc.?

[Warhead36]

33 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I haven't heard much about Sam Howell thus far.  Could be bad; could be good.  Any news out there about how he's been doing throwing, hitting his WRs in stride, etc.?

He was a 5th rounder for a reason. He's a developmental prospect.

[Voice_of_Reason]

35 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I haven't heard much about Sam Howell thus far.  Could be bad; could be good.  Any news out there about how he's been doing throwing, hitting his WRs in stride, etc.?

Haven’t heard much because the focus is on Wemtz, and TH is getting second team

reps.

 

Mitch Tischler said we’re going to fall in love with Howell to some no-name receiver who won’t make he team in preseason.  

[zCommander]

6 hours ago, TheShredder said:

True.

I'd view him as a backup upgrade on a lot of teams.

I'm not going to look it up again, but I want to say NFL backups were making on avg. 4M after Case Keenum's deal a few years ago. TH is a bargain and he should be able to land another backup gig.

 

The only way TH gets re-signed is if Howell is not ready to be the main backup to Wentz or Wentz fails and is let go and Howell takes over then TH would be the backup to him. I guess we will have to see how this plays out at the end of the year. 

[NoCalMike]

How good does Wentz have to be in order to get an extension and how soon do you think it happens if he gets off to a hot start?

 

I am not asking that question because I am necessarily pro-Wentz, or even think he will have that kind of start in the first place, but I do wonder when it comes to the front office and being desperate for a QB, where is the fine line between "of course he is better than the mediocrity we've had here versus okay this guy is playing special and we need to make sure he is here longer?"

 

Which way do you think the front office is leaning right now, towards the fact that the contract offers a clean slate after the season, or itchy trigger finger to lock Wentz up the moment he shows signs of taking this team to a different level then it's been in a long time?

Edited June 21, 2022 by NoCalMike

[FootballZombie]

44 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

How good does Wentz have to be in order to get an extension and how soon do you think it happens if he gets off to a hot start?

 

I am not asking that question because I am necessarily pro-Wentz, or even think he will have that kind of start in the first place, but I do wonder when it comes to the front office and being desperate for a QB, where is the fine line between "of course he is better than the mediocrity we've had here versus okay this guy is playing special and we need to make sure he is here longer?"

 

Which way do you think the front office is leaning right now, towards the fact that the contract offers a clean slate after the season, or itchy trigger finger to lock Wentz up the moment he shows signs of taking this team to a different level then it's been in a long time?

 

Good enough that he is viewed as the catalyst to carry you to future success.

That won't be determined just by the numbers he puts up or team success alone. Its more all encompassing. Its gonna revolve around his role in the offense, his production, his behavior, team success and more.

 

If we are a successful team next year, but we are a rush predicated offense, then it wont happen right away. You can be a QB capable of bringing your QB to the SB, just like Jimmy G, but if you are not seen as the catalyst, teams are not tripping over themselves to shell out the big bucks if they don't have to.

 

He would need to prove he is the primary engine of a good-to-great offense otherwise he will be in the position practically every game manager finds themselves in.

 

 

 

 

 

[Acworth skins fan]

4 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

How good does Wentz have to be in order to get an extension and how soon do you think it happens if he gets off to a hot start?

 

I am not asking that question because I am necessarily pro-Wentz, or even think he will have that kind of start in the first place, but I do wonder when it comes to the front office and being desperate for a QB, where is the fine line between "of course he is better than the mediocrity we've had here versus okay this guy is playing special and we need to make sure he is here longer?"

 

Which way do you think the front office is leaning right now, towards the fact that the contract offers a clean slate after the season, or itchy trigger finger to lock Wentz up the moment he shows signs of taking this team to a different level then it's been in a long time?

Don’t have a clue which way the front office leans, but he would still be under contract the next two years at $26 mil and $27. He can be cut the end of this year with zero dead money, if I’m not mistaken.