The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So I'm going to bring a name back into this. What about Kellen Mond? I'm mainly saying this if we can't get a QB in the draft or if we choose to go with a vet like Trib or Mariota and bring in Mond to learn behind them? 

 

I know he didn't get the opportunity last year but I've always been intrigued. 

 

 

Wildly inconsistent in college without really IMO special skills aside from having mobility but not special mobility.  Apparently he hasn't look good in the Vikings practices.

 

 

 

As for the Qb spot, we've been mostly dealing with the equivalent of getting our dinners at 7-11 and hoping against hope they would end up special anyway.  You seem to like the idea from time to time to keep this 7-11 dinner approach and hope to get lucky.  I am sick of it.  It makes me cringe.   I am not even a little intrigued to go back to that type of well. 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Sheehan just had Mike Shanahan on.  Shanny knows QBs IMO.

 

He likes Derek Carr

He thinks D. Watson is freakishly good but would want clearance as for his issues before chasing him

He thinks Wilson and Rodgers stays

He is not high on Trubisky, had concerns from what he saw in college and those concerns followed him to the pros in his mind.  He said he'd be "pessimistic" about his chances of success as a starter

He hasn't watched the college QBs yet.

Likes this roster for the most part but goes you need a QB to win

 

I wonder if Kyle didn't listen to him as for the previous draft considering in one segment early in the season, Shanny raved about Mac Jones' college tape. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Thinking Skins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wildly inconsistent in college without really IMO special skills aside from having mobility but not special mobility.  Apparently he hasn't look good in the Vikings practices.

 

 

 

As for the Qb spot, we've been mostly dealing with the equivalent of getting our dinners at 7-11 and hoping against hope they would end up special anyway.  You seem to like the idea from time to time to keep this 7-11 dinner approach and hope to get lucky.  I am sick of it.  It makes me cringe.   I am not even a little intrigued to go back to that type of well. 

 

I hear that but I don't value Zimmer's opinion much. There were rumors that the Seahawks and Texans wanted him in the draft before Minnesota drafted him. We all knew he was raw, and i always questioned his accuracy. But the thing I like about him are his leadership and his mobility and his deep ball. I don't think he could be a long term option, but he was somebody I wanted basically to serve in the Allen role last year. And if he's available now, I'd probably want him. I don't know that I'd want him to start but if we could get him the same way we got Allen 2 year ago, its low risk. 

 

One thing I like about mobile QBs is that generally (via their legs) they can be quicker to get an offense going. They may not hit their ceilings of being a franchise guy as quickly or at all, but look at what Hurts is doing and its all with his legs. I'd just say make the call to see what it would take.

 

We've got to accept that Wilson, Rodgers, Cousins, Carr, Jimmy G, Watson, aren't coming here. So its going to take some creativity to solve this problem. It could be as simple as drafting Corral / Pickett / Howell / Strong / Willis, but Ron said there are 4 possibilities and other than the names we mentioned who else could we trade for? Mond is a guy who had potential, looked good in the senior bowl and Minny just fired the coach and GM so he may be available. I don't know how Ron / Marty & Martin felt about him but if they liked him maybe he's worth a low draft pick. 

 

 

[DWinzit]

I applaud the idea of leaving no stone unturned in the search for a QB(s) to improve the current position status. 

Suggestions like Tyler Huntley have some legs (some not a lot)

 

Mond makes sense from the standpoint that the staff that drafted him is gone. Does make you wonder though, would they be gone if they had drafted a contributor or perhaps a David Mills instead. I could never get behind drafting Mond because he was wayyyy too inconsistent. The Vikings staff tested and studied him to the point they drafted him really high. They had him for a full year and had him play in all their preseason games. The only time he looked good according to the articles was in slop time at the end of the last preseason game when starters and even 2nd stringers don't usually participate.  They also deemed him not worthy of even getting a look in the final game of the year choosing a not very good Mannion to play the full game with zero interest in seeing Mond.

 

To me, hard pass

[HigSkin]

Yikes, not good stats for our QB play this year....

 

 

[Est.1974]

Well the trade in principle for Alex Smith was announced late January, so maybe even without Brucifier here we can swing a deal well before Free Agency…..

[Mooka]

57 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So I'm going to bring a name back into this. What about Kellen Mond? 

 

He's not even a backup but 3rd string on the Vikings. 

 

Pretty bad sign they started Sean Mannion over him. 

[Thinking Skins]

20 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I applaud the idea of leaving no stone unturned in the search for a QB(s) to improve the current position status. 

Suggestions like Tyler Huntley have some legs (some not a lot)

 

Mond makes sense from the standpoint that the staff that drafted him is gone. Does make you wonder though, would they be gone if they had drafted a contributor or perhaps a David Mills instead. I could never get behind drafting Mond because he was wayyyy too inconsistent. The Vikings staff tested and studied him to the point they drafted him really high. They had him for a full year and had him play in all their preseason games. The only time he looked good according to the articles was in slop time at the end of the last preseason game when starters and even 2nd stringers don't usually participate.  They also deemed him not worthy of even getting a look in the final game of the year choosing a not very good Mannion to play the full game with zero interest in seeing Mond.

 

To me, hard pass

I get it, and I'm not even really advocating for him. Just bringing him up as a possibility. If I'm alone on that island I'll have the conversation offline but I'm more curious about not the arguments in favor of the decision just saying that me may be a possibility based on what Ron said. I'd also say Love may be a possibility (he looked bad in his first start but may have the potential). 

 

My thing is that we are a league of recycled first round picks going around as backups and potential franchise guys and I'm saying that what if Ron is thinking about trading for a young backup whose coaching staff didn't give him a chance to start? 

[Chump Bailey]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

My thing is that we are a league of recycled first round picks going around as backups and potential franchise guys and I'm saying that what if Ron is thinking about trading for a young backup whose coaching staff didn't give him a chance to start? 

 

For myself, that would be Sam Ehlinger Colts backup. I like him. I'm not suggesting he's the solution but he has an interesting skill set. Wentz is awful though so the Colts won't move him.

[mistertim]

I think the idea of winning with a mediocre QB and stellar supporting cast + dominant defense just needs to die already. It's been on life support for a long time here, with a few posters randomly giving it IV drips to keep it going. Just let it go.

 

It's been refuted time and time again. By analysts, by coaches, by FOs, by statistics. Even the most hardcore defense minded and older school coaches now pretty much openly accept it. It's a QB and passing driven league now. If you want to be a perennial contender you have to have a top QB and that's all there is to it.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I wonder if Kyle didn't listen to him as for the previous draft considering in one segment early in the season, Shanny raved about Mac Jones' college tape. 

He maybe did listen, then they promptly bottled it when it came to picking his QB. 

[DWinzit]

23 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I get it, and I'm not even really advocating for him. Just bringing him up as a possibility. If I'm alone on that island I'll have the conversation offline but I'm more curious about not the arguments in favor of the decision just saying that me may be a possibility based on what Ron said. I'd also say Love may be a possibility (he looked bad in his first start but may have the potential). 

 

My thing is that we are a league of recycled first round picks going around as backups and potential franchise guys and I'm saying that what if Ron is thinking about trading for a young backup whose coaching staff didn't give him a chance to start? 

I didn't think much of Love before the draft and was shocked he was drafted so early. I have seen him the few times he was in this year and he looked pitiful. 

So while I understand that he has potential, like Mond...I can't seem to it. If I had to pick one, I would say Love because I see a zero with Mond. There must be others.....right?

 

I think the right answer is drafting Corral or Howell.

I do think they should bring in someone else to compete with TH. A Trubisky or Mariota is my pick 

Edited January 13, 2022 by DWinzit

[Thinking Skins]

19 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

For myself, that would be Sam Ehlinger Colts backup. I like him. I'm not suggesting he's the solution but he has an interesting skill set. Wentz is awful though so the Colts won't move him.

Interesting. I can't really see them getting rid of him since Reich is still coach. In fact he may get an opportunity now that they're souring on Wentz.  

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

For myself, that would be Sam Ehlinger Colts backup. I like him. I'm not suggesting he's the solution but he has an interesting skill set. Wentz is awful though so the Colts won't move him.

 

You mean bring in Ehlinger as our backup? Obviously he's not a guy you bring in with any sort of idea that he's the answer. The dude was a 6th round pick for a reason. (If anyone brings up Tom Brady I will spontaneously combust)

[Thinking Skins]

26 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I think the idea of winning with a mediocre QB and stellar supporting cast + dominant defense just needs to die already. It's been on life support for a long time here, with a few posters randomly giving it IV drips to keep it going. Just let it go.

 

It's been refuted time and time again. By analysts, by coaches, by FOs, by statistics. Even the most hardcore defense minded and older school coaches now pretty much openly accept it. It's a QB and passing driven league now. If you want to be a perennial contender you have to have a top QB and that's all there is to it.

But the talk is this year's draft class is weak for the QBs (I don't necessarily agree but I'm not in the front office). If the FO agrees with this, then they may press harder for a QB by other means. If they don't want Tribs or Mariota or Winston, then the question is who else is available. I think I'd take Mond over Ehlinger for a few reasons but its not a big deal. 

 

I wonder what the Dolphins are thinking about Tua. I know Ron hasn't sounded too positive on him but does Turner like him? Marty and Martin? Are the Dolphins still trying to get Watson? I think he could be good here. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I hear that but I don't value Zimmer's opinion much.

 

 

 

Maybe so.  but somehow I doubt he was killing it in practice and Zimmer just the said the opposite because he's dense. 

 

https://thevikingage.com/2021/08/26/5-minnesota-vikings-positions-worse-training-camp/2/

Backup Quarterback

Mond was okay in the Vikings’ OTAs earlier this year, having good moments mixed with bad, and it was assumed he’d progress as the summer wore on.

Unfortunately, he missed a big chunk of practice early on in training camp as he had to sit out after testing positive for COVID-19 protocols. Since returning, he has looked shaky at best in the two games he’s played so far in the preseason.

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

We all knew he was raw, and i always questioned his accuracy. But the thing I like about him are his leadership and his mobility and his deep ball.

 

To me he's a poor man's Desmond Ridder and Mond is already putting out some tape that he's probably not going to be the right guy.  I noticed you like to compare some non-first rounders to Dak.  The thing is about Dak he showed that he was under drafted right from the jump.

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I don't think he could be a long term option, but he was somebody I wanted basically to serve in the Allen role last year. And if he's available now, I'd probably want him. I don't know that I'd want him to start but if we could get him the same way we got Allen 2 year ago, its low risk. 

 

So you are saying you want him as a backup to replace Allen?  I don't know if he's better than Allen.   They don't have a 5th rounder this draft to trade.

 

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

 

We've got to accept that Wilson, Rodgers, Cousins, Carr, Jimmy G, Watson, aren't coming here. So its going to take some creativity to solve this problem.

 

 

 

Probably so as for the veterans.  Then if so go for a rookie.   Not some other teams reject.   

 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Redskins 2021]

Jimmy G is someone we could get I would think. I don't think I would want him with injury problems  but we could get him.

[MartinC]

Of note.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

We have to draft the guy, trade whatever you have to to be in position to draft your guy or have multiple options for where you move up to. 
I think we have to move up and we have to draft, too much young talent on this team to break up now- keep the cap space to pay guys and bring in a MLB. I like all 3 of the top QB options and they are an upgrade over our QB play the last two seasons 

 

No reason to be gun shy about this route, there’s just as much risk going the veteran route, plus it costs you more cap and maybe even more draft resources. 

watson, legal troubles

wilson, aging, injured and didn’t look great down the stretch

rodgers, could hang it up at any time. Amazing talent and total liability for the future 

and so on 

[NickyJ]

Seeing people advocate for Mond is weird. A handful of teams were interested in him before the draft. He got drafted, the team that drafted him wants nothing to do with him, so clearly the teams that wanted him before they saw NFL tape of him were better judges? Am I missing something here besides the wishful thinking?

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

Seeing people advocate for Mond is weird. A handful of teams were interested in him before the draft. He got drafted, the team that drafted him wants nothing to do with him, so clearly the teams that wanted him before they saw NFL tape of him were better judges? Am I missing something here besides the wishful thinking?

 

@Thinking Skins likes to think outside the box as it pertains to QB play. He reminds me of Atlanta Skins Fan who was convinced Greg McElroy was the second coming of Joe Montana, if I remember correctly.

 

I think the position and what hits and doesn't hit fascinates him so he looks for  silver linings with guys. 

[Warhead36]

28 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Of note.

 

Not only that but the vast majority of them were 1st round picks.

 

The path is clear. Of course you have to get the right guy and just drafting someone in the 1st is no guarantee, but that's the way to go.

[Llevron]

I really want to draft a guy. What I really don't want is to do is draft a guy and force him to play right away, as I can see how the pressure to preform immediately can lead to some less than favorable habits to be formed. I feel like that's part of what happened with Griffin here, and may others outside of here. 

 

That said, I'm really ok with picking up a mid-tier guy and having him take the lumps in the rookies place until he is ready. I wouldn't think that such a hard thing to make happen but I have bene thinking this for almost a decade now so who knows at this point. 

 

 

Some of you smarter cats reading this. I would like to see QB duos you would like to have in the image of what I described above. I know yall like details, and I like yalls details so they are welcome. But if you don't want to waste all that mental energy on something that probably wont happen, knowing I will likely respond with 'Hmmm that's interesting' because I have nothing of value to add to the discussion then feel free to keep it short! Im curious what guys out there you think would work for us and what we want to do, and who you think we can reasonably expect to have the ability to go and get. 

[Thinking Skins]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

@Thinking Skins likes to think outside the box as it pertains to QB play. He reminds me of Atlanta Skins Fan who was convinced Greg McElroy was the second coming of Joe Montana, if I remember correctly.

 

I think the position and what hits and doesn't hit fascinates him so he looks for  silver linings with guys. 

ASF was one of my favorite posters. I remember that McElroy thread fondly, although he didn't do so well in the league. I'm not as in on Mond (last year I questioned his accuracy numbers) but one of the things that keeps me going as a fan of football in general is the whole underdog mentality. It'd be nice if we had a first pick in the draft and could draft a Burrow or drafted the right QB high in the draft, or even if our Cousins / RG3 picks worked out but they didn't. So its always a question of what can we do with what we have? 

 

The underdog / other team's backup / low round draft pick who becomes a star is an easy thing to go after because we've seen it happen before and its normally not about overdrafting a guy (like say taking Mond in the first), just having the foresight to draft a QB. The problem people have with what I'm going after is that generally they say you can never find a franchise QB there and I'm saying that I'm just looking for an improvement over what we've had and just some stability at the position. 

 

I have other questions I'm asking but these last 25 years or so have really gotten me interested from a mathematical standpoint of the predictors of success of a college QB. In that regard I can kinda see why ASF fell in love with McElroy, but my model doesn't like him as much because of his low number of attempts, low TD numbers, low scrambling / mobility numbers, and some other things. But there are others who my model liked who either have looked good (yay) or they aren't getting the opportunity or they got it and didn't play well early and didn't get another chance. But this is what I do in the offseason. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

24 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

@Thinking Skins likes to think outside the box as it pertains to QB play. He reminds me of Atlanta Skins Fan who was convinced Greg McElroy was the second coming of Joe Montana, if I remember correctly.

 

 

Yeah I recall some of my debates with Atlanta Skins Fan.  Among other thigns I recall him not thinking much of Cam Newton when he was coming out in that draft