Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, DWinzit said: I am surprised in the Mariota love. We have dealt with so many starting QB injuries over the past few years and Mariota has a lengthy history Pass on Wentz, now looks like 2 teams worth of baggage coming out together with an injury history I dont think it's love. It's the best we may be able to get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Who knows right now as for reading tea leaves but heck there is nothing else to do, so what the heck 😀 In an interview a month or so ago with the Junkies, Rivera admitted after being goaded on the topic that there are some specific QBs in this draft that intrigue him In an interview with Finlay the other day he mentioned being willing to trade up to get a QB in this draft without much goading to that answer. Maybe that's coincidence, maybe not. But its possible they have a clear #1 in their heads that they'd prefer by a bigger enough margin that they'd be willing to trade up within reason. While personally I see a few of these QBs as very similar, I would much prefer my top preference, Corral over the next 2. Possible they see it the same way, with whichever QB they like best? But who knows will see. I do think the first chapter of the movie will be an aggressive attempt yet swing and a miss at a veteran QB. I got no problem with those here pining for some of the bigger names. I do think they end up dissapointed but I suspect their at least will be some action on that front where they will swing hard and we will be at least in conversation ala Stafford last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, Inigo Montoya said: 1. We aren't getting a top QB via a trade 2. The QBs in the draft seem to have more ? marks this year, though I like Corral and Howell a lot 3. a Vet like Mariota + 1st Rd QB seems to be the smartest route to insure you get quality play from the position and make a run with our roster. Mariota unfortunately headlines the vet FA market, unless you like Mitchy T I think we can survive by resigning Allen, rolling with TH as a backup and drafting in the 4-8 range. Understood. I am in favor of them shooting for the moon if they wish on Wilson or a cleared Watson. I do not think they are possible. Shoot and miss then I am in favor of Trubisky via FA and Corral or Howell to match with him. Then there is TH. Trade him if there is any interest or keep him for additional competition I really don't want anything to do with Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: There would be far worse moves than Wentz if the contract/price/cost was reasonable and we also drafted a high end rookie to compete. It's a mile better IMO then the reclamation projects. But it's tough for me to get that long article about him being a Diva/bad teammate out of my head that made RG3 look low maintenance in comparison. And I do believe those stories considering Eagle beat reporters have shared some of these stories, too. 14 minutes ago, DWinzit said: I am surprised in the Mariota love. We have dealt with so many starting QB injuries over the past few years and Mariota has a lengthy history Pass on Wentz, now looks like 2 teams worth of baggage coming out together with an injury history I don't think its love but picking the best of a bad lot. From what I've watched thus far, I'd take Mariota easily over Trubisky. And to some extent over Winston, too. But none of these reclamation projects excite me. When I see posts about hey maybe we miss out on this or that reclamation project, my reaction is to shrug my shoulders, I don't care. Edited January 13, 2022 by Skinsinparadise 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, DWinzit said: Understood. I am in favor of them shooting for the moon if they wish on Wilson or a cleared Watson. I do not think they are possible. Shoot and miss then I am in favor of Trubisky via FA and Corral or Howell to match with him. Then there is TH. Trade him if there is any interest or keep him for additional competition I really don't want anything to do with Allen By all means, give me Watson (without legal troubles) or Wilson. I'm in, buying the commanders jersey (****ing hate the name) and flying across country to see games. I'm ****ing in! But I dont think we're a preferred destination and its going to take a big turnaround to get there, which is going to require drafting well. I think Taylor is a great backup and has earned it, Allen is a pretty darn good back up too. We're so used to our starter going down and playing backups that its hard to see, most backup QBs aren't getting you to the playoffs, that's not their job. Its to keep the team afloat until the starter comes back. Over allocating resources to backup QBs doesn't seem like the way to build a winner. Would the raiders rather have Mariota or another starting receiver for Carr? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: If you trade up to say 4, you're going to get one of your top 2 Qbs . These trades are often worked out before the draft And I'm totally good with spending the $$$ on Mariota, the question is are we better off spending there or giving say Allen Robinson a 1 year prove it deal after his down year? Yeah but those pre-draft trades can be dicey though, unless it's a 2012 situation where you're 100% guaranteed to get one of the two guys you want. At #4 in this class it's highly likely that you would get your guy...but it's not guaranteed. Imagine trading up to #4 so you can get Corral (just as an example) and then either Detroit or Houston takes him? IMO you only do that if you have 2 guys you'd be absolutely ok with at 4. But even if you were convinced that there's a 99% chance you get your guy after moving up to 4 pre-draft you still want to bring someone else in, in case the rookie isn't quite ready to start yet. I think Heinicke could be that guy, but I'm not sure this FO or coaching staff is. I think they want a better security blanket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 With talent + needs ... I could see the first 3 picks being Thibideaux, Hutchinson and Neal. #4 pick is where things might get interesting as far as trading in ... and I would think to go from #11 to #4 we'd need to cough our 2023 1st ... or maybe work in a player like Payne. IMO we have 2 major holes and a lot of depth concerns. Depth is usually something you can address in the draft, but if we are trading up for a QB we won't have many draft resources remaining to fill in the depth we will need to recoup. I think I would prefer to trade Payne and #11 to move up ... if someone was willing to take that deal ... You'd get your QB on a cheap rookie contract and you'd have about $60m to address the depth issues and holes. MLB + extending McLaurin + re-signing Settle ... even after those moves you'll have a lot of $$ left over. Bringing in vets as backups is the less than ideal route ... obviously cheap upside rookies are preferable ... but this year we are already down a 5th rounder and likely 1st + 2nd or 3rd would need to be packaged to move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Last year everyone thought we were getting Stafford including Rivera, we did not get him. I hope they have some one picked out and are ready to get him because rite now does not look good. Trubisky is not Stafford. I hope they know what they are doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said: By all means, give me Watson (without legal troubles) or Wilson. I'm in, buying the commanders jersey (****ing hate the name) and flying across country to see games. I'm ****ing in! But I dont think we're a preferred destination and its going to take a big turnaround to get there, which is going to require drafting well. I think Taylor is a great backup and has earned it, Allen is a pretty darn good back up too. We're so used to our starter going down and playing backups that its hard to see, most backup QBs aren't getting you to the playoffs, that's not their job. Its to keep the team afloat until the starter comes back. Over allocating resources to backup QBs doesn't seem like the way to build a winner. Would the raiders rather have Mariota or another starting receiver for Carr? haha 2 years and still no freaking name, it is a joke. Can't wait until this game is over Has Allen really ever been any good though? He really was only brought in as a starting point so they had someone with knowledge of the system. Carr is okay but the cost of getting him would probably mean no rookie. I would like to take a shot on a rookie. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 minute ago, mistertim said: But even if you were convinced that there's a 99% chance you get your guy after moving up to 4 pre-draft you still want to bring someone else in, in case the rookie isn't quite ready to start yet. I think Heinicke could be that guy, but I'm not sure this FO or coaching staff is. I think they want a better security blanket. For sure, we're playing keyboard GM right now... for me it's an allocation of resources question. And I'm good with TH as a backup/1-4 game bridge. I think he's a serviceable backup for the rest of his career. Other injuries, covid, tough schedule all played a hand in losing. I want to replace him as a starter. If coaches don't think he should be a #2, then go get Mariota and either way plan for a splash in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: With talent + needs ... I could see the first 3 picks being Thibideaux, Hutchinson and Neal. #4 pick is where things might get interesting as far as trading in ... and I would think to go from #11 to #4 we'd need to cough our 2023 1st ... or maybe work in a player like Payne. IMO we have 2 major holes and a lot of depth concerns. Depth is usually something you can address in the draft, but if we are trading up for a QB we won't have many draft resources remaining to fill in the depth we will need to recoup. I think I would prefer to trade Payne and #11 to move up ... if someone was willing to take that deal ... You'd get your QB on a cheap rookie contract and you'd have about $60m to address the depth issues and holes. MLB + extending McLaurin + re-signing Settle ... even after those moves you'll have a lot of $$ left over. Bringing in vets as backups is the less than ideal route ... obviously cheap upside rookies are preferable ... but this year we are already down a 5th rounder and likely 1st + 2nd or 3rd would need to be packaged to move up. How does Sweat look compared to the draftable defensive ends at top.Keep Payne and Young Edited January 13, 2022 by Redskins 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: With talent + needs ... I could see the first 3 picks being Thibideaux, Hutchinson and Neal. #4 pick is where things might get interesting as far as trading in ... and I would think to go from #11 to #4 we'd need to cough our 2023 1st ... or maybe work in a player like Payne. This is my assumption as well, trade 11 plus our 1 next year or some combo of a 2 next year and Payne I would try to keep Sweat if possible, edge rushers are much harder to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 7 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: This is my assumption as well, trade 11 plus our 1 next year or some combo of a 2 next year and Payne I would try to keep Sweat if possible, edge rushers are much harder to replace. I think this is a down draft the top picks are not as valuable. I dont think Sweat is that much worst then the other two and I don't think those teams want to pay those rookie You may be able to get one of them to take the QB trade sweat and another pick cheaper keep Payne. I would prefer if we make a move its not for a rookie but if they like them do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said: This is my assumption as well, trade 11 plus our 1 next year or some combo of a 2 next year and Payne I would try to keep Sweat if possible, edge rushers are much harder to replace. Plus we don't have much behind Young and Sweat. I like what we saw from the young guys but nobody near replacement level. If we trade Payne, we have Ionn and would probably prioritize Settle too ... so we'd still be 3 deep there without having to spend a high draft pick. Not the same at DE, where if you trade Sweat that other DE spot immediately becomes a big hole you need to fill. Trading Payne frees up $10.1m which is his 5th year option. Trading Sweat clears maybe $4m ... and you have an extra year of control versus being the final year for Payne. You might get more back for Sweat, but my preference would be to trade Payne. Edited January 13, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, DWinzit said: Understood. I am in favor of them shooting for the moon if they wish on Wilson or a cleared Watson. I do not think they are possible. Shoot and miss then I am in favor of Trubisky via FA and Corral or Howell to match with him. Then there is TH. Trade him if there is any interest or keep him for additional competition I really don't want anything to do with Allen I don't really see any reason to trade Heinicke unless someone is desperate and offers to over pay for him. I think we're unlikely to get anything more than a 5th for him at this point, and IMO a good backup QB is worth more to us than a 5th round pick which will statistically end up as a pick that does nothing. 53 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: With talent + needs ... I could see the first 3 picks being Thibideaux, Hutchinson and Neal. #4 pick is where things might get interesting as far as trading in ... and I would think to go from #11 to #4 we'd need to cough our 2023 1st ... or maybe work in a player like Payne. IMO we have 2 major holes and a lot of depth concerns. Depth is usually something you can address in the draft, but if we are trading up for a QB we won't have many draft resources remaining to fill in the depth we will need to recoup. I think I would prefer to trade Payne and #11 to move up ... if someone was willing to take that deal ... You'd get your QB on a cheap rookie contract and you'd have about $60m to address the depth issues and holes. MLB + extending McLaurin + re-signing Settle ... even after those moves you'll have a lot of $$ left over. Bringing in vets as backups is the less than ideal route ... obviously cheap upside rookies are preferable ... but this year we are already down a 5th rounder and likely 1st + 2nd or 3rd would need to be packaged to move up. So if we go by the (somewhat old school) value chart, pick 4 is worth 1800 and pick 11 is worth 1250. So we'd need to give up something worth around 550. That's the value of the 3rd pick in the 2nd round. I know Payne was a 1st rounder but IMO he's unlikely to garner more than a 2nd in the trade market. So we might be able to pull that off, but my gut says it would have to be Payne plus another mid or lower round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veteranskinsfan Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 A big "NO" on Wentz. He has had concussion issues. Eagles fleeced the Colts on that deal. Colts are stuck with him now so may have to make him the backup. No other smart NFL team will trade for him. He feels threatened by any quarterback competition too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswerdlw Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Could the firing of David Culley lead to the hiring of Brian Flores with the purposing of changing Watson's mind about staying in Houston? The plot thickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mistertim said: I don't really see any reason to trade Heinicke unless someone is desperate and offers to over pay for him. I think we're unlikely to get anything more than a 5th for him at this point, and IMO a good backup QB is worth more to us than a 5th round pick which will statistically end up as a pick that does nothing. So if we go by the (somewhat old school) value chart, pick 4 is worth 1800 and pick 11 is worth 1250. So we'd need to give up something worth around 550. That's the value of the 3rd pick in the 2nd round. I know Payne was a 1st rounder but IMO he's unlikely to garner more than a 2nd in the trade market. So we might be able to pull that off, but my gut says it would have to be Payne plus another mid or lower round pick. I think sweat is worth more then you think he is. He is not much worst then the top 2 defensive end this year and alot cheaper. I think you flip him to one of the teams looking at the d ends and work from there. Edited January 13, 2022 by Redskins 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 My guess is Houston hires Flores and they end up keeping Watson. Maybe Dougie Mills becomes trade bait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Just now, Redskins 2021 said: I think sweat is worth more then you think he is. He is not much worst then the top 2 defensive end this year and alot cheaper. I think you flip him to one of the teams looking at the d ends and work from there. If Watson was clearned and was willing to play for us 2 first and Sweat and payne would probably be enough there dline is so bad. Just now, Warhead36 said: My guess is Houston hires Flores and they end up keeping Watson. Maybe Dougie Mills becomes trade bait. that ship has sailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mistertim said: I don't really see any reason to trade Heinicke unless someone is desperate and offers to over pay for him. I think we're unlikely to get anything more than a 5th for him at this point, and IMO a good backup QB is worth more to us than a 5th round pick which will statistically end up as a pick that does nothing. Oh think he would be good for competition and his remaining year isn't that high. My point on the trade idea is if we had a Trubisky and Howell, we really moved on from him. A 5th rounder would probably be a 4 year depth ST player with a shot at starting. Get something out of him for the future Edited January 13, 2022 by DWinzit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 hours ago, Zim489 said: Unfortunately the time frame is working against Ron. He doesn’t really have time to be patient and work with the kid. If he sits a year and say we go 6-11 7-10 again next year. There’s no way Ron can be extended after year 3. So now your QB who has never played pretty much needs to come in and have a Mahomes type of hit the ground running second year. Not saying he needs to be Mahomes but he needs to be good right away to prevent the scenaeio of ANOTHER 7-10 type of season in year 4. If we have a veteran starting all season this year and we have another losing season; Ron will be gone. Plain and simple. He can only have a losing season; if He plays a rookie qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins 2021 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: If we have a veteran starting all season this year and we have another losing season; Ron will be gone. Plain and simple. He can only have a losing season; if He plays a rookie qb. They should have got stafford. Qb price is going to be higher this year. I did not think rams needed QB last year and they made a big trade. There could be surprise teams this year as well. Edited January 13, 2022 by Redskins 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: My guess is Houston hires Flores and they end up keeping Watson. Maybe Dougie Mills becomes trade bait. If there was a Flores/Watson marriage in Texas, I could see Rivera's interest in Mills. They reportedly likes him last year and showed promise at the end of this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 10 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: If we have a veteran starting all season this year and we have another losing season; Ron will be gone. Plain and simple. He can only have a losing season; if He plays a rookie qb. Yeah I see this being the case as well. That's why he sounds so desperate about getting a quality QB this offseason. You can't have three straight losing seasons AND not have a long term solution(or at least option)at QB in today's NFL. 8 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said: They should have got stafford. Qb price is going to be higher this year. I did not think rams needed QB last year and they made a big trade. There could be surprise teams this year as well. We made a legit offer but there was on way we could bid more than two #1s and a starting QB like the Rams did with Goff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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