The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Llevron said:

I really want to draft a guy. What I really don't want is to do is draft a guy and force him to play right away, as I can see how the pressure to preform immediately can lead to some less than favorable habits to be formed. I feel like that's part of what happened with Griffin here, and may others outside of here. 

 

That said, I'm really ok with picking up a mid-tier guy and having him take the lumps in the rookies place until he is ready. I wouldn't think that such a hard thing to make happen but I have bene thinking this for almost a decade now so who knows at this point. 

 

 

Some of you smarter cats reading this. I would like to see QB duos you would like to have in the image of what I described above. I know yall like details, and I like yalls details so they are welcome. But if you don't want to waste all that mental energy on something that probably wont happen, knowing I will likely respond with 'Hmmm that's interesting' because I have nothing of value to add to the discussion then feel free to keep it short! Im curious what guys out there you think would work for us and what we want to do, and who you think we can reasonably expect to have the ability to go and get. 

Unfortunately the time frame is working against Ron. He doesn’t really have time to be patient and work with the kid. If he sits a year and say we go 6-11 7-10 again next year. There’s no way Ron can be extended after year 3. So now your QB who has never played pretty much needs to come in and have a Mahomes type of hit the ground running second year. Not saying he needs to be Mahomes but he needs to be good right away to prevent the scenaeio of ANOTHER 7-10 type of season in year 4. 

[Thinking Skins]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think this draft class is "weak", it's just one of those classes where there isn't a clear cut #1 blue chip prospect. Which in many ways is fortunate for us since we're not picking in the top 3.

 

As far as picking guys up in FA or trade, I don't want them going for a reclamation project or some mid or low drafted guy who they think might have some upside, unless it's purely as a backup.

 

So I'm not interested in Mond or Ehlinger. Those are guys we'd pick up and then possibly spend a couple of years hoping they would come around before finally admitting that they're not that good and we have to move on. By that time we may be in a place to lose some core pieces of the team. And we'd probably also be looking for a new HC.

 

So if we pick up a QB in FA or trade IMO it either needs to be a blockbuster deal for someone like Watson or Wilson, or be a super moderate contract for a guy who is clearly a bridge and then draft a rookie. That would be more along the Trubisky or Mariota lines. I'm not really interested in Jimmy G unless SF cuts him and we get him for cheap.

 

Go big or go home. I'm sick of this piddling around trying to move from being a crappy team to being a slightly less crappy team. No reclamation projects. No searching fruitlessly for mid or late round gems. No hoping that some other team's low round pick will somehow become a completely different QB elsewhere.

I get this but what were up against is the possibility that there are say 4 QBs taken in the top 10 (Pickett, Corral, Howell, Willis) and then we're left with the option of say taking a Strong or a Ridder (passing on a really good player who slips) or taking another position and going to plan B. The answer is not Heinicke, so who else would we bring in? an UDFA? Ridder in the second? 

 

I'd make the argument that Mond or Ehlinger are better than Tribusky or Mariota because at least they're fresh. But I yield. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

The OL is more than good enough to win with. This ain't the 80s anymore, nobody just has a dominant Hog like OL. Most sacks/pressures are actually the fault of the QB.

 

Our starting OL in 2022 is pretty decent. There's going to be a dropoff from Sherff to Schweitzer, but it's not much as Schweitzer played excellent this year when he was healthy. What we need is depth ... so we should still spend some mid-round picks on OG and OT to bolster the OL both short and long-term.

 

Leno - Flowers - Roullier - Schweitzer - Cosmi ... if healthy is quite good. Charles is really your only suitable depth piece though. You can always add some veteran depth to back up the starters for fairly cheap, but still think we should be hitting the draft for some OL.

 

I'd be pretty intrigued with Mariota or Trubisky IF and ONLY IF it was paired with a QB at either #11 or in Round 2. Someone we can have in our back pocket for the future. I think Trubisky and Mariota have the talent to take us to the playoffs, but we'll see.

Edited January 13, 2022 by JamesMadisonSkins

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

I get this but what were up against is the possibility that there are say 4 QBs taken in the top 10 (Pickett, Corral, Howell, Willis) and then we're left with the option of say taking a Strong or a Ridder (passing on a really good player who slips) or taking another position and going to plan B. The answer is not Heinicke, so who else would we bring in? an UDFA? Ridder in the second? 

 

I'd make the argument that Mond or Ehlinger are better than Tribusky or Mariota because at least they're fresh. But I yield. 

 

I think it's possible that Mond and/or Ehlinger could have more "unknown" potential than Trubisky or Mariota (since IMO they pretty much are who they are at this point), but I also think it's possible that they just aren't very good. Sure, they're fresher and don't have any injury history, etc. But that doesn't mean they're likely to be any better.

 

I don't dislike the theory of guys who haven't gotten a shot getting one. But I don't want to use it as a plan A. Or a plan B. To me, getting a Mond or a Ehlinger and actually hoping he somehow turns out to be a diamond in the rough is plan C at the very best. I think that situation basically means we completely and utterly failed in FA, in trades, and in the draft. If that happens then we're basically in a world of **** and Ron will probably be in the dog house.

 

I think it's incredibly unlikely that 4 QBs will go in the top 10 with this year's class. Anything is possible though. That's why I also wouldn't be surprised to see us trade up to get the guy we want. 

[Inigo Montoya]

4 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

I'd be pretty intrigued with Mariota or Trubisky IF and ONLY IF it was paired with a QB at either #11 or in Round 2. Someone we can have in our back pocket for the future. I think Trubisky and Mariota have the talent to take us to the playoffs, but we'll see.

Agreed on Mariota, I was in on him last year too if he was going to be traded. I assume he's an actual FA this year? 

 

Why do we have to wait until 11 to pick a QB? I still say make a trade up to 4 or wherever reasonable and grab your guy. It won't be an RG3 haul and since there's no consensus 1-3 QBs you have no idea what the teams in front of you are going to do. 

[Zim489]

Just now, Inigo Montoya said:

Agreed on Mariota, I was in on him last year too if he was going to be traded. I assume he's an actual FA this year? 

 

Why do we have to wait until 11 to pick a QB? I still say make a trade up to 4 or wherever reasonable and grab your guy. It won't be an RG3 haul and since there's no consensus 1-3 QBs you have no idea what the teams in front of you are going to do. 

I would hate trading up for any QB this drafting. 

[MartinC]

56 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Wentz stock is low. 

 

I actually prefer him over Bridgewater/Trubisky/Mariota as a bridge guy to a rookie.

 

I'd actually love a Wentz/Howell camp competition. And if Howell isn't ready that's fine. Wentz can at the very least get a team to a winning record and to the precipice of the playoffs while Howell/rookie learns.

 

Agreed!

 

If Wentz was available cheaply in trade or if they cut him and he was a free agent he'd be a great bridge guy to pair with a rookie. If Wentz got back to the guy he was when he was an MVP candidate GREAT you can trade the rookie maybe for picks. If he continues to be the guy he's been the last couple of seasons you move onto the rookie when you feel he is ready. Wentz is under contract until 2024 at just over $20M a year and a team that traded for him would have no cap hit beyond the current year of they cut him - none of his money would be guaranteed.

[Inigo Montoya]

Just now, Zim489 said:

I would hate trading up for any QB this drafting. 

Why? we do this song and dance every year. If it means giving up a future Daron Payne or Jamin Davis to possibly solve the QB problem, you do it. 

[Zim489]

Just now, Inigo Montoya said:

Why? we do this song and dance every year. If it means giving up a future Daron Payne or Jamin Davis to possibly solve the QB problem, you do it. 

They’re will be one of Howell Willis picket Corral on the board at 11

[Inigo Montoya]

Just now, Zim489 said:

They’re will be one of Howell Willis picket Corral on the board at 11

Sure, but I'm assuming after scouting them that only 1 or 2 of those will end up being the guy(s) they want... that would require a trade up to be sure you get him. And this is the year I want to be sure we get the guy that our team thinks could solve the QB problem. 

[Redskins 2021]

Just now, Zim489 said:

I would hate trading up for any QB this drafting. 

Don't trade up you will get at least one falling down this year.

The vet market going to be crazy 

1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

Agreed!

 

If Wentz was available cheaply in trade or if they cut him and he was a free agent he'd be a great bridge guy to pair with a rookie. If Wentz got back to the guy he was when he was an MVP candidate GREAT you can trade the rookie maybe for picks. If he continues to be the guy he's been the last couple of seasons you move onto the rookie when you feel he is ready. Wentz is under contract until 2024 at just over $20M a year and a team that traded for him would have no cap hit beyond the current year of they cut him - none of his money would be guaranteed.

They will give Wentz another year there no one for them to get.

 The vet market will be intense this year we will be lucky to get Trubisky or Marrota.

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Why? we do this song and dance every year. If it means giving up a future Daron Payne or Jamin Davis to possibly solve the QB problem, you do it. 

 If there is a guy the scouts/front office love and rank significantly higher - sure. But if there are maybe three guys you have with similar grades you sit tight and see who drops.

 

There does not seem to be a consensus order for the QBs in this draft - I think sitting tight is more likely the way to go this year than trading up.

[Inigo Montoya]

3 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 If there is a guy the scouts/front office love and rank significantly higher - sure. But if there are maybe three guys you have with similar grades you sit tight and see who drops.

 

There does not seem to be a consensus order for the QBs in this draft - I think sitting tight is more likely the way to go this year than trading up.

I for one think thats going to be the case, I think they land on Corral or Howell and there's no guarantee that one is left at 11 and they move up to get their guy. and I think they should, the most important position on the field, take your swing here. 

 

On the vet topic: I like the idea of having Mariota and a 1st rounder, but I'm ok with a 1st rounder TH and Allen too, it's cheaper and both can play in spot duty if needed. Spend resources on the FS/MLB holes, go get another vet WR. 

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

 

They will give Wentz another year there no one for them to get.

 

Thats not the noise coming out of the Colts right now. But we will see.

[skinny21]

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Our starting OL in 2022 is pretty decent. There's going to be a dropoff from Sherff to Schweitzer, but it's not much as Schweitzer played excellent this year when he was healthy. What we need is depth ... so we should still spend some mid-round picks on OG and OT to bolster the OL both short and long-term.

 

Leno - Flowers - Roullier - Schweitzer - Cosmi ... if healthy is quite good. Charles is really your only suitable depth piece though. You can always add some veteran depth to back up the starters for fairly cheap, but still think we should be hitting the draft for some OL.

 

I'd be pretty intrigued with Mariota or Trubisky IF and ONLY IF it was paired with a QB at either #11 or in Round 2. Someone we can have in our back pocket for the future. I think Trubisky and Mariota have the talent to take us to the playoffs, but we'll see.

Yeah, I’ve been saying the same thing about the oline.  I do think Ismael performed fairly well, so at least we have a backup center.  If they bring back Lucas, we’d be down to needing competition for Charles.  Not easy to do with other needs, but it’s doable.

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

They’re will be one of Howell Willis picket Corral on the board at 11

I can see why you’d think that (and I think it’s likely), but what happens if the staff only really likes a couple of the top qbs and one of them goes early?  Big risk for the FO to sit on their hands and hope the other guy they like falls to them, particularly when you factor in other teams potentially wanting to trade ahead of us.  I’d be bummed if we spend big to trade up though, so I’m kind of with you.  Hopefully, if that happens, the rook comes in and justifies the trade…

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Thats not the noise coming out of the Colts right now. But we will see.

I could see them bring in Trubisky Marrota Bridgewater or Dalton as a back up to push him but there is no one better to get for them.

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Inigo Montoya said:

On the vet topic: I like the idea of having Mariota and a 1st rounder, but I'm ok with a 1st rounder TH and Allen too, it's cheaper and both can play in spot duty if needed. Spend resources on the FS/MLB holes, go get another vet WR. 

 

Allen is out of contract. He and Heinicke are backups so I don't see the point bringing Allen back since Heinicke is already under contract for next season. Personally I don't see Heinicke as a bridge starter, IMO he's not good enough to go into the season with as your opening day starter even with a first round rookie on the bench behind him. Also dont forget that free agency comes before the draft and there is no guarantee picking 11 that you get the QB you like in the draft - for me we need to sign a vet to be the starter pre draft.

[mistertim]

4 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Thats not the noise coming out of the Colts right now. But we will see.

 

The noise coming out of the Colts right now is one of the main reasons I'd be very hesitant about Wentz. Yes for 2/3 of a season several years ago he was legit MVP contender and looked poised to enter the upper echelon of NFL QBs, but then things went downhill and there have been plenty of rumblings over the past few years about Wentz's personality, work ethic, etc.

 

That seems to be the case in Indy as well. If that's true then I'm not sure I want anything to do with him. 

[Redskins 2021]

2 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

The noise coming out of the Colts right now is one of the main reasons I'd be very hesitant about Wentz. Yes for 2/3 of a season several years ago he was legit MVP contender and looked poised to enter the upper echelon of NFL QBs, but then things went downhill and there have been plenty of rumblings over the past few years about Wentz's personality, work ethic, etc.

 

That seems to be the case in Indy as well. If that's true then I'm not sure I want anything to do with him. 

I dont want him we do need to get a new starter QB. I can't see them getting rid if Wentz.

[Inigo Montoya]

6 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

 Also dont forget that free agency comes before the draft and there is no guarantee picking 11 that you get the QB you like in the draft - for me we need to sign a vet to be the starter pre draft.

Which is why you don't wait until 11

 

I think we have the space to go get a Mariota plus fill holes and I subscribe to this as long as it's not too rich. 

[DWinzit]

I am surprised in the Mariota love.

We have dealt with so many starting QB injuries over the past few years and Mariota has a lengthy history

Pass on Wentz, now looks like 2 teams worth of baggage coming out together with an injury history

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

Which is why you don't wait until 11

 

I think we have the space to go get a Mariota plus fill holes and I subscribe to this as long as it's not too rich. 

 

To Martin's point though...even if we're fine with trading up we can't just go into the draft with only Taylor Heinicke on our roster. At the very least you need a security blanket before the draft. You may plan on trading up but you can't force teams to trade with you and another team might offer more.

 

I'd hate to have a situation where we go into the season with only Trubisky and Heinicke or Mariota and Heinicke, but in that worst case scenario those are better than just Heinicke.

[Inigo Montoya]

Just now, DWinzit said:

I am surprised in the Mariota love.

We have dealt with so many starting QB injuries over the past few years and Mariota has a lengthy history

Pass on Wentz, now looks like 2 teams worth of baggage coming out together with an injury history

1. We aren't getting a top QB via a trade

2. The QBs in the draft seem to have more ? marks this year, though I like Corral and Howell a lot

3. a Vet like Mariota + 1st Rd QB seems to be the smartest route to insure you get quality play from the position and make a run with our roster. Mariota unfortunately headlines the vet FA market, unless you like Mitchy T

 

I think we can survive by resigning Allen, rolling with TH as a backup and drafting in the 4-8 range. 

[Est.1974]

There would be far worse moves than Wentz if the contract/price/cost was reasonable and we also drafted a high end rookie to compete.

[Inigo Montoya]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

To Martin's point though...even if we're fine with trading up we can't just go into the draft with only Taylor Heinicke on our roster. At the very least you need a security blanket before the draft. You may plan on trading up but you can't force teams to trade with you and another team might offer more.

 

I'd hate to have a situation where we go into the season with only Trubisky and Heinicke or Mariota and Heinicke, but in that worst case scenario those are better than just Heinicke.

If you trade up to say 4, you're going to get one of your top 2 Qbs . These trades are often worked out before the draft

And I'm totally good with spending the $$$ on Mariota, the question is are we better off spending there or giving say Allen Robinson a 1 year prove it deal after his down year?