The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

JJ at #4 will be great value for someone. 

[Dah-Dee]

4 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

 

 

 

I just don't get how Daniels is with EAG - one of the biggest management firms in sports, headed by one of the most powerful women in sports (White) - but ended up with two-bit trouble-making agent Ron Butler and co.  Just bizarre.

 

My guess is, White told the agent(s) to shut the hell up, and she's the one who talked with GMAP/etc.

 

[SkinsFTW]

21 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Its tough to answer because Brady as the college prospect was a late pick for a reason although there were signs, it was ALL intangibles with him as I think his 40 time and shuttle were all worst in combine history lol. 

 

Brady's 40 was about 5.25

 

Slowest dude ever probably.

[illone]

5 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Also, the fact that Pierce loves Daniels after their time at ASU is a good sign for those in the Daniels camp.

doesnt really mean much, unless Telesco uses that info to make a move and of course if you trust Pierce’s analysis of the player. 

1 minute ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Brady's 40 was about 5.25

 

Slowest dude ever probably.

 

he looked like a grocery bagger and ran like a guard.  

[Jumbo]

45 minutes ago, illone said:

 

Its tough to answer because Brady as the college prospect was a late pick for a reason although there were signs, it was ALL intangibles with him as I think his 40 time and shuttle were all worst in combine history lol. 

 

Sort of sums up the universe of QB assessment as any kind of straightforward science. 😄

 

If you go old school you see the same with more than a few greats of 60s-80s.

 

There's a long post I could make on what I regard as the number one reason it's so hard to know most of the time.

 

Short version is the players future often hinges significantly on variables of environment and shaping forces from his college days to most def once he hits the pros.

 

Every single aspect of his landing spot environment is in play as to how the "core" person/player you get evolves via interaction with all these variables and how they interact with him (feedback loop). All the events and people involved can't be predicted with consistent reliability.

 

You can theoretically take a Brady, dump him elsewhere as a rook,  and get a very diff result. His "core" individual drives and abilities may still result in success but not as much. If Marino had landed in.....etc. 

 

There have been several times in the last twenty years where I'd be dreaming of how cool it would be if we were in a position to draft a super hot QB prospect, only to feel the sinking sensation of believing even if we could he'd just regress here. 

 

This is the first time since rg3 I feel there's actually a chance for it to work (and obviously I hope it workd out way diff than how the whole org regressed again along with rg3s injury).

 

We still have a lot of roster holes to fix and still have to see if Quinn and KK and the rest  have learned how to improve on their commonly noted shortcomings of the past.

 

But I am saying we have a chance. 😁👍

 

 

 

[Hooper]

4 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

he looked like a grocery bagger and ran like a guard.  

Brady looks so much better now than he did at 22.

 

He was on pace to be bald at 30 and now has the thickest locks I've ever seen at 45.

 

Sign me up for Tb12!

 

 

[Ghost of]

Well my question wasn't about whether Brady should have been better regarded (how did i get it right?) but if you had a chance at that kind of culture setting, smart, tough player do you grab him?

[illone]

2 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Well my question wasn't about whether Brady should have been better regarded (how did i get it right?) but if you had a chance at that kind of culture setting, smart, tough player do you grab him?

  
 

Im gonna defer to mad dog on this one:

 

😂😂

[Hooper]

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

 

Sort of sums up the universe of QB assessment as any kind of straightforward science. 😄

 

If you go old school you see the same with more than a few greats of 60s-80s.

 

There's a long post I could make on what I regard as the number one reason it's so hard to know most of the time.

 

Short version is the players future often hinges significantly on variables of environment and shaping forces from his college days to most def once he hits the pros.

 

Every single aspect of his landing spot environment is in play as to how the "core" person/player you get evolves via interaction with all these variables and how they interact with him (feedback loop). All the events and people involved can't be predicted with consistent responsibility.

 

You can theoretically take a Brady, dump him elsewhere as a rook,  and get a very diff result. His "core" individual drives and abilities may still result in success but not as much. If Marino had landed in.....etc. 

 

There have been several times in the last twenty years where I'd be dreaming of how cool it would be if we were in a position to draft a super hot QB prospect, only to feel the sinking sensation of believing even if we could he'd just regress here. 

 

This is the first time since rg3 I feel there's actually a chance for it to work (and obviously I hope it workd out way diff than how the whole org regressed again along with rg3s injury).

 

We still have a lot of roster holes to fix and still have to see if Quinn and KK and the rest  have learned how to improve on their commonly noted shortcomings of the past.

 

But I am saying we have a chance. 😁👍

 

 

 

 

Yep. Situation and coaching means so much.

 

Even with Haskins... remember when he actually looked kinda decent with KOC calling the plays. And then Riverboat Ron was like "nah, I want Norv's son and a brand new scheme."  Now Haskins probably would have flamed out no matter what, but the change didn't help.

 

And with Sam... the next gen stats on Eric B's offense are just insane. Sam routinely dropped back and there were no receivers even remotely open because of the play calling.  Andy Reid dumping that angry turtle off on Ron was an all-timer. A hoodwink swallowed by a collective of reporters and fans who believed this idea that EB was a genius who unfairly hadn't got a shot when everyone in the league (outside of Ron) knew the real score.

 

Our situation now though, pretty damn good. Quinn is going to get a few years no matter what. No coach is going to make the transition from college to pros easier than KK. 

 

Now New England is the situation that would scare me. The Krafts can't wait to interfere after years of being kept at bay. The staff is questionable and poor Mayo has to follow up the guy who won six super bowls. Even worse, the way the Krafts have trashed Bill B since they fired him has made even the Bill B critics pissed.  Plus, the offense has no skill players to speak of. I smell a disaster in the making for a young QB.

 

Daniels allegedly wanting to go to either Washington or Minnesota makes a lot of sense to me. Las Vegas is clearly a West Coast thing here more than anything else. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

Well my question wasn't about whether Brady should have been better regarded (how did i get it right?) but if you had a chance at that kind of culture setting, smart, tough player do you grab him?

 

IMO Brady shouldn't even be discussed seriously in this situation (or pretty much any other similar one). It's a red herring because Brady was a complete and utter one-off that will never happen again. He had a legit superpower to process information and space at an absolutely alarming rate. It really is almost superhuman how quickly he was able to react and process time and space from within the pocket. 

 

Combine that superpower with his psychotic competitiveness and work ethic and you have the ingredients for Brady. Ingredients that won't happen like that again because that sort of information processing capacity can't be taught any more than having a cannon arm or size can be taught. It can be honed and refined, but the natural capacity he had was something almost no other humans do.

 

There were some signs at Michigan that he was a fast processor, but nothing really gave up the true extent of it until he was in the NFL and could showcase it. We need to stop looking for the next Brady because he doesn't exist, and won't exist. Hoping that x y or z prospect is the next Brady is nothing but a recipe for disappointment. 

[Hooper]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

IMO Brady shouldn't even be discussed seriously in this situation (or pretty much any other similar one). It's a red herring because Brady was a complete and utter one-off that will never happen again. He had a legit superpower to process information and space at an absolutely alarming rate. It really is almost superhuman how quickly he was able to react and process time and space from within the pocket. 

 

Combine that superpower with his psychotic competitiveness and work ethic and you have the ingredients for Brady. Ingredients that won't happen like that again because that sort of information processing capacity can't be taught any more than having a cannon arm or size can be taught. It can be honed and refined, but the natural capacity he had was something almost no other humans do.

 

There were some signs at Michigan that he was a fast processor, but nothing really gave up the true extent of it until he was in the NFL and could showcase it. We need to stop looking for the next Brady because he doesn't exist, and won't exist. Hoping that x y or z prospect is the next Brady is nothing but a recipe for disappointment. 

 

Also, the fact that Bill B stuck with him after Bledsoe was healthy was beyond ballsy. Bledsoe was a solid pro with a massive contract. And Brady was an up and down rookie. 

[HogsVa7]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Daniels was “meh” at best in ASU. Why would KK wanna coach that?

 

Meanwhile Maye was at his best running a variant of Kk’s air raid.

That's a lazy explanation to comfort your Drake Maye love. He didn't put up great numbers at ASU, but he saw what he has done at LSU and how he progressed each year meanwhile winning the Heisman trophy.

Edited April 20 by HogsVa7

[Rufus T Firefly]

11 minutes ago, illone said:

he looked like a grocery bagger and ran like a guard.  

There was just nothing impressive about Brady coming out. He didn't;t do much to stand out in college, he had no physical traits that merited attention, he had a decent Wonderlic, but not remarkable. The pics of him wit his shirt off looked like a dude you'd see in the locker room of your local gym and you'd say "Oh, first time? Do you need someone to show you how a treadmill works?"

 

What's funny to me is he was going around saying stuff like "If you don't draft me, you'll regret it" and now people make it out like everyone was dumb for not listening. But is that really what we expect GMs to do? Listen to every prospect who just says he's going to be great? I mean, I'm sure plenty of  Shaun Dion Hamilton types said the same thing. 

[Panninho]

6 hours ago, Llevron said:

The kid himself has said and done literally nothing that’s the funny part. People are gonna hate him because of a bunch of **** other people have said about him. Reading into EVERY word on Twitter has never worked for anything 

 

While true on that specific matter, I find it interesting that JD shot down all other rumors on Twitter immediately before this one.

 

So if all of these reports ain't true, why not simply hop on Twitter and do the same as with the other reports? He obviously follows social media drama. It's one week before the draft. There is not much more stuff going to come his way until Thursday. How easy is it to do that? Why does his agency need time to craft a statement? Just say it's ridiculous and just social media fantasy and that you are happy to go wherever and have no preference. Caleb shot down that rumor he would force his way to us and no one ever spoke of it again.

I think it is unlikely that Schefter and Jeremy Fowler go out there and make a segment about how he does not really want to be here if this is all nothing. So why would we exonerate JD on this one? It's his camp that has started this and not really done anything about this since then. It's the people he pays to work for him. I find all of this pretty weird one week before the draft. None of the other QBs do anything like that.

 

 

 

[illone]

7 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

Sort of sums up the universe of QB assessment as any kind of straightforward science. 😄

 

But I am saying we have a chance. 😁👍

 

Yea it’s wild how UNscientific it actually ends up being. I think Bill Walsh said something along the lines of “mental makeup” as his number 1 trait he looks for, and then footwork lol. Many have tried and failed the “mental exam” thing, as we know the S2 crashed and burned by CJ “i just play football” stroud. Maybe someday someone will use a brain wave system with a regression algorithm to dial things in. 

Oh we are setup MUCH better as a franchise right now than when rg3 came on board, we just didnt know how bad it was at the time. Or maybe we did and just couldnt admit it. Call me crazy but Quinn reminds me of Andy Reids second act. By all accounts DQ learned a ton from atl and seems in a good spot to capitalize. We shall see, but its not hard to smell the roses at this point in time. Esp when it comes to the staff mindset and approach. Its early, of course, but im damn proud to be a fan again. 

 

[Llevron]

@Panninho maybe it’s true 🤷🏽‍♂️

[Dah-Dee]

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39913882/2024-nfl-draft-jeff-legwold-ranking-top-100-prospects

 

2024 NFL draft: Jeff Legwold ranks the top 100 prospects

Jeff Legwold, ESPN Senior Writer

Apr 20, 2024, 06:00 AM ET

 

 

5. Caleb Williams, QB, USC, 6-1⅛, 214 (DNR)

Williams' improvisational skills and ability to extend plays are considered the best many scouts have seen in years. He finished his collegiate career with 120 total touchdowns and a long list of "How did he do that?" plays to go along with 14 interceptions. Williams will need to improve his decision-making when leaving the pocket (33 career fumbles) and clean up his accuracy when going deep.

 

6. Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU, 6-3¼, 210 (DNR)

Daniels threw 40 TD passes and four interceptions in his 2023 Heisman Trophy-winning season, averaging a FBS-high 11.7 yards per attempt. He also rushed for 1,184 yards and 10 TDs last season. Daniels' slight frame might concern some teams, especially since he doesn't shy away from contact. But he plays with awareness, possesses high-end decision-making skills and maintains consistent accuracy all over the field. Some NFL personnel executives have Daniels graded as high as Williams.

 

22. J.J. McCarthy, QB, Michigan, 6-2½, 219 (DNR)

McCarthy is not the high-volume passer other prospects on the board are -- he had 27 career games with 15 or fewer completions -- but his ability in an NFL-style scheme and his decisiveness are worthy of a long look. He doesn't always move through progressions as smoothly as others and has had a long delivery at times, but when he sees it, he drives the ball with accuracy. He will need time on the learning curve, so he might not become what he could be if he's rushed into starting.

 

23. Drake Maye, QB, North Carolina, 6-4⅜, 223 (DNR)

Maye will likely be off the board well before this pick rolls around. His physical profile in the pocket is among the best of the QBs in this class. His arm strength is not a question -- he threw 62 touchdown passes over the past two seasons -- but his accuracy has drifted at times, especially this past season. Maye doesn't always decode where the openings are in coverages and will have to find the line between bold and bad, but his biggest supporters see Justin Herbert-level potential.

 

39. Bo Nix, QB, Oregon, 6-2⅛, 214 (DNR)

You have to pause at his kind of efficiency -- he completed at least 71% of his passes in all 14 games last season. Some teams say almost a third of his attempts were thrown to receivers at or behind the line of scrimmage, but his time at Oregon elevated his game as well as his confidence. He's a tough, mobile competitor, but he will have to improve accuracy on throws when the receivers aren't facing him or crossing his face.

 

50. Michael Penix Jr., QB, Washington, 6-2¼, 216 (DNR)

With injuries to both shoulders (right in 2019 and his left throwing shoulder in 2021) and two ACL tears in his right knee, Penix's draft status is likely in the hands of medical staffs. He played two seasons at Washington without missing a game. His delivery has a hitch and his release point that is too low for some coaches' liking. But Penix is an easy passer with velocity who also displays wavering accuracy because of inconsistent footwork. Some evaluators say he is spotty at best when forced to leave the pocket.

 

94. Spencer Rattler, QB, South Carolina, 6-0¼, 211 (4.95)

There was a time, early in his college career at Oklahoma, when Rattler was being projected as the top pick in the draft. But that was before he was benched his sophomore year -- for Caleb Williams, no less. He was productive at times in two seasons in South Carolina -- 37 touchdowns, 20 interceptions -- and has earned some draft love in recent months that could get him into Day 2.

 

Edited April 20 by Dah-Dee

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Caught up with two radio segments from Keim yesterday.

 

A.  This is the 2nd instance of him saying don't rule out McCarthy.  Now this is a 180 for him from a few days ago.  I mentioned this yesterday.  He didn't say why he feels this way but knowing him, he had to hear from someone he knows within the team otherwise he'd be more general on it.  And I gather this shift was perhaps from the top 30 visit?  But he still downplayed it some and suggested he feels its more in a trade down scenario.  He doesn't think they trade down but doesn't completely rule it out. 

 

B.  He's mentioned a few times he knows people close to Daniels they feel its Washington, Minny and the Raiders are where he wants to go

 

C. Daniels is cool with coming here.  

 

D.  The issue is his camp (assuming) his agent wasn't tipped off that all 4 QBs will be there that day.  Keim didn''t say this part of it, its a guess from me, that is, by piecing different narratives together am guessing Daniels was upset at his agent for not informing him about this and his agent blamed it on the team for not telling him.

 

E. Daniels had a good time on his visit here

 

F.  Keim doesn't think the agent drill influences the pick

 

G.  Keim won't rule out any of the three QBs are taken but asked twice who does he think they take if he had to pick, he said Daniels

 

H.  Was asked on the off chance the FO would take McCarthy, fans would be upset.  Keim said they don't care about fan reaction to their picks they just want to win -- its not like it was under Dan where fan reaction was a variable

 

I.  Mentioned in both segments, he heard the Raiders really really really want Daniels and that's the team that benefits if any team does from anything relating to Daniels falling or being available

 

 

Great informative and relevant post!

 

This is the 2nd instance of him saying don't rule out McCarthy. Now this is a 180 for him from a few days ago.

 

Wow, someone as calculating and careful with his precise word choices as Keim iis clearly sending a preparatory message to us, that has been relayed to him by someone he trusts.

 

No way he says this as just a random speculative comment.

 

This is a message-- not that we're neccesarily drafting McCarthy, but that the odds of us doing so, have increased from nil to real possibility.

 

I told you SIP that the group format favored JJ! It may well be that he was the star of the the show. 😄

 

I wonder if, after the draft, the true behind the scenes stories and evaluations will ever leak out.

 

 

I mentioned this yesterday. He didn't say why he feels this way but knowing him, he had to hear from someone he knows within the team otherwise he'd be more general on it.

 

Agreed.

 

Based solely on Keim's hints and your interpretation of them, do you think the ranking order is now Jayden, McCarthy at the top followed by Maye, Penix or is it still a Jayden vs Maye battle?

 

 

Edited April 20 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

Great informative and relevant post!

 

This is the 2nd instance of him saying don't rule out McCarthy. Now this is a 180 for him from a few days ago.

 

Wow, someone as calculating and careful with his precise word choices as Keim iis clearly sending a preparatory message to us, that has been relayed to him by someone he trusts.

 

No way he says this as just a random speculative comment.

 

This is a message-- not that we're neccesarily drafting McCarthy, but that the odds of us doing so, have increased from nil to real possibility.

 

I told you SIP that the group format favored JJ! It may well be that he was the star of the the show. 😄

 

 

Sure but the whole drill at Commanders Park wasn't just the golf. Interviews happened and in an interview I've been also saying forever that's McCarthy's game.  As for who shined at the golf interaction, not sure, but maybe you are right that it was McCarthy.  I guessed Maye.   McCarthy is more well spoken among other things than both Maye and Daniels.

 

On the draft thread I was asked to show when I did a post promoting McCarthy last year, and I found it-- it was from last May, 2023.  So on the McCarthy track, I am fairly well versed with the player and the personality.

 

I like McCarthy.  I'd be dissappointed if he's the pick.  but i wouldn't throw a fit.

 

Keim has on and off even weeks ago said in a trade down he wouldn't rule out McCarthy but feels that's a long shot.  He still more or less said a variation of the same point yesterday but hit it harder.  And while he again doubled down that he doesn't think it happens he doesn't rule it out.

 

20 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

 

Based solely on Keim's hints and your interpretation of them, do you think the ranking order is now Jayden, McCarthy at the top followed by Maye, Penix or is it still a Jayden vs Maye battle?

 

 

 

I thought about this.  I almost opined on it but am unsure.

 

But the way Bram said its Maye or Daniels and Keim kicks in then by saying don't rule out McCarthy.  And then circles back twice that he'd guess they'd choose Daniels.  Maye seems conspiciously absent from Keim.  But that could also be coincidence.  So not sure.  Also i am not writing a transcript as he talks so its possible I missed something

Edited April 20 by Skinsinparadise

[DogofWar1]

Brady in college

 

	Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Michigan					395	638	61.9	4773	7.5	7.2	30	17	134.9
1996	Michigan	Big Ten		QB	2	3	5	60.0	26	5.2	-3.8	0	1	63.7
1997	Michigan	Big Ten		QB	4	12	15	80.0	103	6.9	6.9	0	0	137.7
1998	Michigan	Big Ten		QB	12	200	323	61.9	2427	7.5	7.0	14	10	133.1
1999	Michigan	Big Ten		QB	11	180	295	61.0	2217	7.5	7.7	16	6	138.0

 

 

You know who I thought of looking at this:

 

	Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
Career	Duke					764	1275	59.9	8201	6.4	6.2	52	29	122.9
*2015	Duke	ACC	FR	QB
2016	Duke	ACC	FR	QB	12	270	430	62.8	2836	6.6	6.4	16	9	126.3
*2017	Duke	ACC	SO	QB	13	257	453	56.7	2691	5.9	5.5	14	11	112.0
*2018	Duke	ACC	JR	QB	11	237	392	60.5	2674	6.8	6.9	22	9	131.7

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

One event that continuously hovers in the back of my mind is the way the Kliff Kingsbury hire happened. 
 

Kliff coached in Arizona when Jayden played at ASU. He has to have known how close Jayden and Antonio Pierce are, which may have been the primary reason he decided to become the Raiders OC - he knew they’d do everything in their power to get Daniels and he really wants to coach the kid. 

 

My tinfoil hat conspiracy theory is that someone (read: Magic Johnson) convinced Kingsbury we would be drafting “his QB” in Daniels at #2 overall. When this came out, everyone immediately assumed it meant we’d trade up for Caleb Williams, but that never had a chance in hell of happening. I think Kingsbury was convinced the Raiders had no chance of getting Daniels, so he reneged on his agreement with them and went to the team that gave him a wink and nod promise that we would be the ones to draft him. 
 

I posted this back in February I believe and it was shot down back when everyone had Maye as the no brainer #2 pick… but this scenario is looking more and more likely IMO. 
 

 

Gotta say, nothing in this universe is stupider than tying a top 2 QB selection in supposedly the best QB draft in 20 years to a retread multiple times ---- canned coach. Who the expletive cares what Kliff wants. Take the best long term QB prospect possible. Such process is so mind numbingly stupid it beggars belief. 

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

Good lord, @Llevroncan't catch a break in here recently.    

 

I am glad it is him right now and and not me 😂 

 

No hard feelings though @Llevron 😁

[BrentMeisterGeneral]

Jayden Daniels agent being a plank, doesn’t make Jayden Daniels a plank

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 minute ago, BrentMeisterGeneral said:

Jayden Daniels agent being a plank, doesn’t make Jayden Daniels a plank

Yeah, but I'd rather be a forest than a street. 

 

Yes, I would. If I could I surely would. 

[Warhead36]

57 minutes ago, HogsVa7 said:

That's a lazy explanation to comfort your Drake Maye love. He didn't put up great numbers at ASU, but he saw what he has done at LSU and how he progressed each year meanwhile winning the Heisman trophy.

You're missing the point. The previous poster was arguing that Kingsbury would want Daniels because he was in Arizona the same time Daniels was at ASU, but Daniels wasn't worth drafting based on how he played at ASU. That argument makes no sense.