The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Twitter analytics have evolved somewhat into salacious rumor mill fodder, reminiscent of the gossip magazines of the '90s. While analytics are often associated with intelligence and are relatively new, their acceptance by the media and public remains fairly high, albeit showing signs of losing steam. However, I find that a good amount of the analytics I encounter are lazy and incomplete for the most part. Most own my exposure of analytics is most on this board, so I don’t cast a wide net of exposure lol. 
 

Your believe he will get sacked a lot in the pros? 

 

Pressure to sack ratio isn't a "twitter analytic" insofar as I assume you mean some random stat made up for the specific purpose of pushing an agenda. It's been around for many years and most analytics houses, including PFF, do a pretty good job of going through the tape when they compile it.

 

As far as Daniels, I think he'll get sacked a fair amount and hit a lot, because of those two intertwined numbers I noted. I think he's going to face pressure he never faced in college, and even with a really good OL he still rarely threw when pressured and often immediately dropped his eyes and looked to run. IMO that worrying tendency is going to be magnified in the NFL.

 

And that's bad news for a guy who's as slight of build as Daniels and who has shown a propensity for not protecting himself very well.

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

(X-4)^2=9 has more than one right answer

 

So what your saying is I can make a pure guess and I have increased chances of being right, making me look super smart.

I like those odds.

 

 

This staff should do everything in its power to bring in QB General Booty from the Sooners.

[Going Commando]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Ultimately, in the NFL, one must acknowledge the risk of injury and proceed accordingly; there are no guarantees with any player. IMHO

 

Injuries are a certainty for every player.  Justin Herbert is one of the biggest, toughest, and most rugged QBs in the league.  He takes a lot of damage from his running style--upright, and through the middle of the field.  Jayden runs the same way.  He also stands in the pocket forever before throwing.  It's a matter of when and how bad, not if with him.

 

I don't know if we'll draft him, but it certainly feels like that's what we're going to do.  When we do it, we need to build an absolutely airtight pocket for the dude in order for him to have any chance to work out here.

[Hooper]

Still think it's a crapshoot, but it sure sounds like the majority of scouts and coaches think Daniels is the better pick at number 2. And outside of this thread, I keep reading more and more stuff about how Drake Maye scares the hell out of a lot of people. If anything, based on what is out there, JJ might be the pick if it's not Daniels.

 

Then again, everyone thought we were a lock to hire Ben Johnson outside of Keim, Standing, and Adam S.

 

I am fine with whoever we take. Whoever it is, I think will be walking into a good situation -- that is so not the case most times.

 

To add to the fun, this is from Doug Farrar's latest newsletter.

 

"LSU’s Jaden Daniels produced the most impressive deep passing statistics of the last decade in 2023. 

Daniels completed 53-of-79 passes of 15-plus air yards for 1,783 yards, 24 touchdowns and just one interception. His completion rate of 67.1% on deep passes led the nation. Don’t let your eyes gloss over that number: a completion percentage of 67.1% would be impressive on all passes, including screens and dump-offs. For deep passes, it’s beyond exceptional. 

Daniels’ Adjusted Net Yards per Attempt (ANY/A) of 28.1 were 34.4% higher than the second-place figure (20.9) of USC’s Caleb Williams.

Here are the 2023 deep passing statistics for the major quarterback prospects in the 2024 NFL draft. All stats in this feature come from Sports Info Solutions.

Passes of 15-plus Air Yards, 2023

Jayden Daniels: 53-of-79 (67.1%), 1783 yards, 24 TD, 1 INT, 28.1 ANY/A

Caleb Williams: 47-of-86 (54.7%), 1612 yards, 16 TD, 3 INT, 20.9 ANY/A

Bo Nix: 44-of-78 (56.4%), 1,420 yards, 14 TD, 3 INT, 20.1 ANY/A

Drake Maye: 63-of-122 (51.6%), 1884 yards, 15 TD, 4 INT, 16.4 ANY/A

J.J. McCarthy: 47-of-87 (54.0%), 1,145 yards, 12 TD, 2 INT, 14.9 ANY/A

Michael Penix: 72-of-150 (48.0%), 2,186 yards, 18 TDs, 8 INT, 14.6 ANY/A

Spencer Rattler: 35-of-74 (47.3%), 1,081 yards, 7 TD, 6 INT, 12.9 ANY/A

Jordan Travis: 28-of-85 (32.9%), 831 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT, 10.7 ANY/A

South Carolina’s Spencer Rattler and Florida State’s Jordan Travis will appear throughout this feature’s tables as a kind of control group to illustrate what a lower-tier prospect’s stats typically look like. Rattler and Travis are a clear notch below the others in this category. 

Daniels attempted just 327 total passes in 2023. Washington’s Michael Penix led the nation with 555 attempts. Naturally, there is a wide disparity in their raw deep-passing numbers. But Daniels threw for just 403 fewer yards in a little more than half as many attempts! And Penix was among the nation’s best-regarded deep passers.

Penix’s eight interceptions on deep passes nerf his ANY/A and should give draft analysts pause. No one else besides Daniels really sticks out. Michigan’s J.J. McCarthy and Oregon’s Bo Nix, the purported dink-and-dunkers of this draft class, have competitive deep-passing numbers.

Here are the highest ANY/A figures for deep passes (minimum 50 passes of 15-plus air yards) in the Sports Info Solutions database since 2016:

Jayden Daniels, 2023: 67.1% completion rate, 28.1 ANY/A

Mac Jones, 2020: 61.8% completion rate, 24.2 ANY/A

Joe Burrow, 2019: 61.2% completion rate, 23.2 ANY/A

Mike White, 2015: 52.0% completion rate, 22.8 ANY/A

Grayson McCall, 2021: 63.3% completion rate, 22.7 ANY/A

Sam Howell, 2020: 50.6% completion rate, 21.1 ANY/A

If we focus on completion rate – a useful metric for accuracy when discussing only deep passes – Daniels posted the highest figure on record in 2023. The only rates over 60% in the database: Coastal Carolina’s Grayson McCall in 2019; Mac Jones at Alabama in 2020, Joe Burrow at LSU in 2019 (all listed above), Nix in 2022 (61.4%) and Matt Corral at Ole Miss in 2021 (60.0%).

Daniels’ eye-popping deep-passing figures in the SEC, coupled with his scrambling ability and measurables, are enough to clearly make him a better overall prospect than Drake Maye. In fact, these figures make me wonder if he is a better overall prospect than Williams."

 

 

 

 

[Dah-Dee]

3 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I think he's going to face pressure he never faced in college, and even with a really good OL he still rarely threw when pressured and often immediately dropped his eyes and looked to run. IMO that worrying tendency is going to be magnified in the NFL.

 

To be fair to JD5, I think that tendency to run vs. pass was coached into him at both ASU and LSU, and can be coached right back out of him. Left to his own devices, he really really wants to throw the ball. I mean, look at this, um, very very recent clip of Daniels scrambling to extend plays, stepping up through messy pockets, and making the throws!

 

Note: Please ignore whatever the hell is going on for the first 50 or so seconds of this clip.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

He can't be serious. Its basic mathematics/ratios/proportions. Its stuff you learn in like elementary school.

I do agree that, while it is an interesting stat, it has to be used in conjunction with game tape to understand the context. Not all sacks are created from the same circumstance. For example, Burrow has a high pressure to sack ratio but its because most of them are from 3rd downs when he's holding out for a big play to get into FG range or something. A lot of the sacks he took were on 3rd down where a sack and an incompletion are essentially the same(you have to punt).

 

The bad sacks are on early downs or sacks that take you out of scoring range that could have been avoided.

I can't remember who did it but somebody posted a piece of research the past several months here or somewhere else illustrating how deleterious just sacks were alone, to drives and it was, just, mind blowing, needless to say. The rate at which sacks kill the potential to generate points on a possession is just I think significantly more than practically anyone intuits. 

Edited April 11 by The Consigliere

[Llevron]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Your believe he will get sacked a lot in the pros? 

 

I think the argument is that he took sacks at a high rate when pressured in college so it will translate to the NFL. That doesn't necessarily mean he will be sacked alot. Just, when pressured he will get sacked alot. Going further, he was playing with a stacked deck in college. Superior talent on his side. HOF WRs, HOF Oline....so if he was taking a lot of [a high rate of] sacks in college, then he is doomed in the NFL where he will likely not have good WRs or a good Oline. 

 

This is obviously a lazy assessment. One he was not pressured at a high rate in college and we don't know if that was 100% the talent around him or one of many other factors. We don't know why he took the sacks he did. Could be a number of reasons. 

 

The assumption goes further that, while he benefited heavily from everything around him being perfect.....that his own play was the reason he was sacked. That he ran instead of passing because of some reason, and that is what caused the few sacks he did have. Or, that's what I gather from the argument. 

11 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

(X-4)^2=9 has more than one right answer

 

So I learned something!!

 

Never doubt me 

[illone]

13 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

McCarthy will do really well for the Vikings throwing to Jefferson and Addison and being essentially an extension of O'Connell. Its a perfect situation. But he's not someone who is gonna elevate his franchise and that's what I want at #2 overall.

 

 

Apparently we can predict the future now.

 

What are the powerball numbers?

 

[Fan since a Fetus]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

He probably doesn't get in but if 28-3 doesn't happen, he does. He made a bunch of Pro Bowls and won an MVP.

the dude should be in the hall of very good even with one Super Bowl. Not hard to make pro bowls. MVP is nice though

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

I can't remember who did it but somebody posted a piece of research the past several months here or somewhere else illustrating how deleterious just sacks were alone, to drives and it was, just, mind blowing, needless to say. The rate at which sacks kill the potential to generate points on a possession is just I think significantly more than practically anyone intuits. 

 

Depends. Sacks on 3rd or 4th downs where the only other play is to throw it away are not nearly as bad as the others. Again context matters. One of the coolest things about Mayes stats, actually, is that most of his sacks came on 3rd or 4th downs where he just has to **** it make a play. And thus, they didn't hurt the team nearly as much. Because the drive was dead anyway. And he was basically better than everyone else at that particular ratio. 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

I think the argument is that he took sacks at a high rate when pressured in college so it will translate to the NFL. That doesn't necessarily mean he will be sacked alot. Just, when pressured he will get sacked alot. Going further, he was playing with a stacked deck in college. Superior talent on his side. HOF WRs, HOF Oline....so if he was taking a lot of [a high rate of] sacks in college, then he is doomed in the NFL where he will likely not have good WRs or a good Oline. 

 

This is obviously a lazy assessment. One he was not pressured at a high rate in college and we don't know if that was 100% the talent around him or one of many other factors. We don't know why he took the sacks he did. Could be a number of reasons. 

 

The assumption goes further that, while he benefited heavily from everything around him being perfect.....that his own play was the reason he was sacked. That he ran instead of passing because of some reason, and that is what caused the few sacks he did have. Or, that's what I gather from the argument. 

 

Do you think it's a bad idea to assume that a tendency in college may very well continue as a tendency into the NFL? At least until that tendency can be coached out? I mean, I get the hyperbole here, but you're not really even addressing the point, just mocking it without offering an alternative explanation or theory.

[FrFan]

FWIW

Washington Commanders

Top picks: Nos. 2, 36, 40

Do the Commanders have an early lean on which QB they'd want to take at No. 2?

The Commanders have been tight-lipped, so it's hard to say if they have a true lean. But what is clear is that most of the coaches I've spoken with, as well as ex-coaches who still study prospects, say it should be LSU's Jayden Daniels -- and none have said North Carolina's Drake Maye should be picked over him. Perhaps one clue: Coach Dan Quinn said, among other things, he wants someone who can handle when coverages change post-snap, and he said Daniels "processes things quickly." And that's in addition to his ability to make big plays with his legs. -- John Keim

What we're hearing about the Commanders' draft: Yeah, it's widely accepted at this point that the Commanders will draft a quarterback at No. 2 -- the question is which one. When I asked a dozen NFL scouts and executives about the selection, I kept hearing that Daniels is the most likely pick. That intel, of course, is from people outside the Commanders' organization, so take it with a grain of salt, but it sounds like many people around the league believe the reigning Heisman Trophy winner will follow Williams off the board. -- Miller

[illone]

Was this posted yet?

 

Schlereth with the low key Dan Quinn shoutout in this episode

 

 

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, jg77 said:

How is the raw number of sacks not the most important number?

 

Look at it this way.

If I shoot 10, 3 pointers and make them all and you shoot 100 3 pointers and make ten the raw number of 3 pointers made would suggest we're both equally good at making 3 pointers, ten apiece. 

But when you look at the 3 pointer to shot ratio, I'm at 100 percent and you're at ten percent which would prove I'm a much better shooter using a formula that's basically the same as pressure to sack ratio.

 

The other day I suggested jaydens p2s ratio might be a little overblown because he had only taken 22 sacks but I certainly didn't mean to suggest it wasn't something to consider.

 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Cool. I hear you.  2 thoughts.

 

A.  We don't know they take Daniels.  i think Maye is still legit in the running.  

 

B. As far as it isn't hard, etc, and wondering about their intelligence-dorkiness if they do something else.  For starters they can very well make the dorky "smart" move.  But if they don't.  It's clear that many that personnel-FO guys-coaches disagree that this is a no brainer easy call.  They find it hard.  Plenty lean Daniels. 

 

I am a Maye guy myself.  And I don't mind going against the grain but it feels like we are here going against the grain.  That is, preferring Maye isn't going against the grain.  Plenty of others do, too.  But the point that its one slam dunk answer and that answer is clearly 100% Maye is definitiely going against the grain -- that's definitiely an outlier position.

 

And while i don't mind having an outlier position it does cross my mind that the masses could be right and I could be wrong.  

 

Not trying to put you on the spot, but have you found any argument you've read them quoted on (any Daniels supporter) that is compelling? I haven't. Thats my problem. I'm ready for evidence that can make me lean back and take notice, data that can make me pause and reconsider. I can and I will. I'm not cement. But I need to see it. And I'm not. Tell me why it should be Daniels? What is it about being overrage, a bad frame, struggled for so many years before putting it all together, being awful with p2s across 5 years, not throwing with anticipation/tight windows, finally and only putting it together once, and only when he was overrage and everything was legit perfect? What's the selling point there, what am I missing. I could be missing something. Maybe he was always doing these things, and as a proportion of the production, his market share etc, he was always killing it, just at ASU (he was good there) maybe he was thrwoing into tight windows with aiyuk but never needed to with Nabers. I need to be pointed into a direction of evidence that is compelling and nobody anywhere is doing that. They're just pretending the litany of warning signs either don't exist, or aren't as important as flash plays, improvement and a huge final overage season. 

 

Personally, I don't find those arguments remotely compelling or convincing. Do they simply not look at QB's who failed and note the similarities? Do they not care? Do they have processing data from the S2, proprietary data,his workouts and in person scouting that is mind blowing but they can't say? Maybe they do, in which case I'll sit down, but what people have pointed to in these "Daniels is #2" articles, quotes, and arguments, is largely all horse ---- in my view. Its possible there is real, genuine, great info, great data, great tape, great S2 score info, great all manner of things that would assuage a lot of my concerns, but nobody has mentioned a single piece of any of it, ever. Not once. The closest is someone who threw up some clips and pointed them out as some examples of anticipation throws and going through progressions, but we all know its easy to just collect some examples, its another thing for it to be a consistent trait, or a random outlier moment.

 

That's what bugs me. We know they have more information, so they may have skeletons on Maye, or data on daniels that alleviates my concerns but wont be shared till down the line, but historically speaking, when I've seen things like this happen, the way it turned out is that these guys turned into freaking Mitch Trubisky and Zach Wilson far more often than they turned into Josh Allen (like a 15-1 to 20-1 rate). 

 

I don't think I'm smarter, I don't, but all the arguments I've seen, are collectively largely idiotic and utterly unconvincing. If he is the pick, I pray they have other ones that actually are compelling (or info on Maye that is horrifying) because otherwise, they really are idiots. 

Edited April 11 by The Consigliere

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

There's a part of me that thinks your right, but another part of me that thinks your wrong, great insight lol, huh. 

 

I think the crux is interpreting what the weird win now??? signings of guys like Ekeler mean? Ekeler is likely past it, the data from last year was dog manure, and he's well past the age cliff. Some may argue, his production pre injury was his usual, then when he tried to play through a chronic injury the rest of the year, not surprisingly, he wasn't himself. That could be true, it's a reasonable argument, but to me, even if it were true, we know RB's peak in productivity from age 21-25 and hit the cliff age 26, on average. There is a steep decline noted at and after age 26, and this is why RB's are rarely getting reupped with their draft teams, and why virtually every single team that signed long term extensions with their stud RB's from the '15, '16, '17, and '18 would never do it, if given the opportunity again in retrospect, and those that didn't (like the Chargers with Melvin Gordon or Jags with Fournette) were relieved they didn't. You see these guys go down, quite suddenly, like the hindenberg shortly after age 26: Gurley-Donezo, Gordon-Donezo, Zeke-doneso, Fournette-Donezo, Dalvin Cook-Donezo, Mixon-on the slide, the entire '18 class is fading, Barkley got a new deal, Chubb had an ill timed injury etc. So what is our thinking with guys like Ekeler and other signings.

 

I actually think the shortness of the deals given (all 1, 2, 3 years for the most part) suggests a GM and FO basically spackling holes in the collective shower of a "condemned" building/franchise, providing enough support to protect weaknesses in the dike to mix metaphors, while trying to coherently fix things on a 2-3 year plan.

 

Even if they were trying to do a short cut build here, and the new owner didn't do that in Philly, I don't think it's possible, and I think the length of contracts suggest that they know this: seems like my hunch anyway, is that they've decided:

DB's need help

LB-s are a ---- show

Edge is a problem

OL has to be rebuilt, largely in terms of starters and replacements for reservers who werent good enough to beat out horrible OL's

Playmakers are either old or not good....

 

We've got (before Howell trade): 5 top 100ish picks, We probably if were lucky get 2 starters, and 1 potential starter reserve from that, maybe another starter and/or reserve from the day 3 picks and UDFA's, so the draft hopefully gives us 4-5 pieces of help.

 

We need 3 drafts, and at least 2 FA hauls to fix this, and to evaluate properly, we need to have at least replacement level, talent at positions, so Ekeler can give the QB an outlet, and competent run game etc, that new LB signing if he can stay healthy, makes the front seven a bit more viable....

 

And to me, that's what I see happening, they're doing a build, while at the same time, just plugging holes with short term answers.

 

The question is: are they gonna draft a more ready now QB like Daniels while doing this, or a more long term answer QB while doing it? I would be HUGELY disappointed if they go with win now as the idea, as ready now so to speak. Doesn't make sense to me. Owners are impatient, but if you build something and the owner feels the plan makes sense and is showing returns, you get some rope. They've already done a lot of that with trades from the prior and present regime, we've got loads of day 1 and day 2 draft ammo. They've added some key pieces that can staunch the bleeding of the OL, and LB/Front Seven, created some floor level upside on offense....I can't help but see it, as a plan that's setting a floor while building on a 2-3 year plan (2 years to .500, 3 to playoffs). Do you top that with a win now QB or Maye? To me, Maye, if he hits is a 12-15 year guy, Daniels, if he hits is probably a 10 year guy, and I also think Maye has a higher floor, which is why I'm confused. 

 

I don't see the selling point? Daniels can run around while we fix the OL? Between the two I think it would be Daniels, rather than Maye, likely to get annihilated due to poor blocking, Daniels, rather than Maye more likely to struggle due to, a lack of playmakers. Maye already has played with horrible blocking and little talent. He knows how to get by with that, has Daniels done either? Nope....It's very odd too me. I keep wondering am I just in denial, and the media is right, or is this a case where the media is clueless, and Maye is gonna go #2 like he always was, and Daniels is just being hyped because he's more fun, or they need a back and forth story? Not sure....

Not going to get into a whole thing about the win now elements of the offseason. Just no desire for it. But the majority of the cap they have spent is on one-year deals, which are by definition short-term moves. But my main point in saying that would be the void years they are giving out not he few longer-term deals they have signed. The purpose of those contracts is to spend future cap money on the resent. There really is no argument for borrowing from the future to help the present if your main priority is the future over the present. 

 

As for Daniels. it's his experience and his style fo play. Yes, a mobile QB is a potential cover-up for a bad OL. But whatever he is, he can show most of it from game 1, while Maye needs much more work to become what he will be. Maybe should even sit for a bit. 

 

I think much of what you're saying here is what you (and I) think of him. If the team viewed him that way, there is no way they'd consider taking him period. But my premise is they view the two as somewhat comparable. If you see Daniels as not that much lesser than Maye in potential, and you are prioritizing winning nw, you likely take Daniels.

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

40 minutes ago, illone said:

Apparently we can predict the future now.

 

What are the powerball numbers?

 

Power ball numbers are random. The numbers would be easier to predict if they stayed relatively consistent for three years like JJ McCarthy’s stats have. The kid has never… literally NEVER led his team to even one win.

Edited April 11 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[Voice_of_Reason]

18 minutes ago, FrFan said:

But what is clear is that most of the coaches I've spoken with, as well as ex-coaches who still study prospects, say it should be LSU's Jayden Daniels --

Well, one of those ex-coaches who still study's prospects Keim has spoken to is Jay Gruden.  And he's a stupid dumb ass.  So, take from that quote what you will.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[wit33]

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Pressure to sack ratio isn't a "twitter analytic" insofar as I assume you mean some random stat made up for the specific purpose of pushing an agenda. It's been around for many years and most analytics houses, including PFF, do a pretty good job of going through the tape when they compile it.

 

The way analytics are often pushed by the masses is lazy. They should be used as part of the overall player analysis, but too often, mathematical metrics are presented as absolute truth without proper context. They're then used as a major reason to dismiss a player in fan forums. This has been a primary argument against Daniel, while the prospect you support faces similar scrutiny.

 

I understand you apply nuance and context to explain how Maye can overcome it, but you fail to provide Daniel with similar consideration. The presentation lacks depth, and there's been a lack of effort to break down the sacks and provide personal context. Some in the media have, like Sheehan who I’ve heard provide some personal context to the stat that I appreciate. 

 

 

 

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

As far as Daniels, I think he'll get sacked a fair amount and hit a lot, because of those two intertwined numbers I noted. I think he's going to face pressure he never faced in college, and even with a really good OL he still rarely threw when pressured and often immediately dropped his eyes and looked to run. IMO that worrying tendency is going to be magnified in the NFL.

 

What are some ways you feel he can overcome this and not take too many sacks? 

 

55 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

And that's bad news for a guy who's as slight of build as Daniels and who has shown a propensity for not protecting himself very well.

Injury risk is certainly a factor, but personally, I couldn't care less about injuries. The goal is to maximize players' primes and keep moving forward. As long as there's no PCL, MCL, ACL tear, or Achilles rupture, they can remain effective into their early 30s.

Edited April 11 by wit33

[Llevron]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Do you think it's a bad idea to assume that a tendency in college may very well continue as a tendency into the NFL? At least until that tendency can be coached out? I mean, I get the hyperbole here, but you're not really even addressing the point, just mocking it without offering an alternative explanation or theory.

 

I am poking fun at the argument, but I'm not trying to mock you. Mock as in I think you or your argument is stupid. No, I think it has value. I just think it lacks depth and context. And if im  going to be fully honest I think you are a little biased, but clearly you are trying to elevate past that which I appreciate. So no not mocking you or anyone else I just want that to be clear. Im not smart enough to mock anyone here but SoCal lol 

 

My hang up with your argument (that I have offered up multiple times for the record) is the assumption that it is a tendency of Daniels and not a product of any of the other factors at play. His coaches literally are saying they coached him to do it. And it bothers me that somehow its a negative, when he is legitimately creating explosive plays. You and I have discussed this enough to understand each others position though. I have even gone as far as to post professionals who are making an effort to be non biased breaking down plays to show some of these things. Which is why I'm not making the argument with you anymore. We both understand and disagree with each other position. Its cool! 

 

And I argue my post is hyperbole. I think you have literally argued everything I said in it.

[Rufus T Firefly]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

And that's why I have no interest in hearing things like "most coaches think.." in this context. Coaches and players for obvious reasons are always concerned about the short-term. The whole Herm "you play to win the game" mindset. Most of the arguments for Daniels center around how much better he will be now, not in the long-term. Which, imo, is not at all where the team's mindset should be. 

[illone]

19 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Power ball numbers are random. The numbers would be easier to predict if they stayed relatively consistent for three years like JJ McCarthy’s stats have. The kid has never… literally NEVER led his team to even one win.

 

 

You must be an Ohio State fan or something, cuz this is a wild take... 

 

Plus, I thought wins meant nothing in college.  So which one is it.. Are wins important, or not?

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

And that's why I have no interest in hearing things like "most coaches think.." in this context. Coaches and players for obvious reasons are always concerned about the short-term. The whole Herm "you play to win the game" mindset. Most of the arguments for Daniels center around how much better he will be now, not in the long-term. Which, imo, is not at all where the team's mindset should be. 

 

The argument being that Daniels cannot improve further or somehow is limited in how much he can improve. Which I just don't buy. There is a lot he can get better at. He likely is near his physical peak. But mentally? And QB play is between the ears. Or it was until the ultimate specimen Drake Maye stepped up. 

Edited April 11 by Llevron

[Panninho]

3 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

And that's why I have no interest in hearing things like "most coaches think.." in this context. Coaches and players for obvious reasons are always concerned about the short-term. The whole Herm "you play to win the game" mindset. Most of the arguments for Daniels center around how much better he will be now, not in the long-term. Which, imo, is not at all where the team's mindset should be. 

They dominante the public discourse though, which is how we got the point where we are at right now. On the other hand, it feels like the analytics community and young Independent NFL media guys almost all prefer Maye.

I just hope Peters takes whoever he prefers and we don't have a compromise up top.