The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[CobraCommander]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think he’s afraid of losing the locker room, more than anything.

If that’s the case they never had confidence in him to begin with. The offense needs a spark. The moxie is gone.

[mistertim]

41 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I was listening to Rivera yesterday and today and while he did not call out Turner directly, he talked about doing things that play to the strengths of your QB. More rolling out, bootlegs, and relying on the strength of the run game.  One thing I always respected about Doug Pederson when he coached the Eagles, and Wentz, got hurt, and he had to go with Foles, was how he tailored the offense to him.  I know a QB, should be able to adjust to an OC's gameplan, but when you have such a limited QB, you have to adjust massively for that, especially because they are backups. It just seems when this O is more up tempo and Taylor has to get the ball out quicker, it seems to go so much smoother.  And obviously with our run game being so dominant right with Robinson now it should be luxury for both Turner and Heinike.  I just do not like the game planning, as it pertains to TH.  I mean you know he has a weak arm, and your backed up on the Giants one yard line and you are trying to throw the ball? You're not handing the ball off? Why?

 

 

 

Rollouts and bootlegs don't play to Heinicke's strengths. In some ways they exacerbate them because it further exposes his weak arm when he's trying to throw on the run and can't set his base before the pass.

[ExoDus84]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

The only thing more uncanny is how nobody can catch his interceptions.

 

It's like an MLB pitcher that throws a 30 MPH changeup. The uncanny lack of power short circuits the brain's hand-eye coordination.

[Wafers]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

 

https://www.outkick.com/carson-wentz-future-looks-more-uncertain-than-ever/

 

“Carson Wentz is one of the strangest dudes I’ve ever seen at quarterback,” said one personnel man who researched Wentz extensively after the 2019 season when it became obviously Philadelphia was going to trade him.

 

“He’s physically tough. He’ll throw his body around and hang in the pocket,” the personnel man said. “But he melts when he’s challenged and he doesn’t have a tough-guy mentality. He’s not really a leader. I’m really surprised that Frank (Reich) still defends him after all that crap in Indy, like not getting vaccinated and then playing so crappy down the stretch."

 

“Maybe Frank feels sorry for him or it’s because he has known him for so long … Wentz basically looked like he had the yips. He wouldn’t get rid of it when should have and then tried to make big plays when they weren’t there. There’s a time to be a hero and there’s a time to be smart. Wentz doesn’t get that. He’s kind of a brain-dead heaver.”

 

 

 

This is exactly how i feel about Wentz.  No tough-guy mentality and low football IQ.  He is almost 30 and has not really grown since his rookie year.   

 

 

[skinsmania123]

33 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Rollouts and bootlegs don't play to Heinicke's strengths. In some ways they exacerbate them because it further exposes his weak arm when he's trying to throw on the run and can't set his base before the pass.

I guess you will have to take that up with Rivera. That is what he said.  I also believe whether you call it roll out or bootleg, Taylor needs to move out of the pocket more. The guy can barely see over the LOS. I see mixed results with his running to one side and throwing the ball.  Maybe I am just not as smart as you are about football, and I am not even being a smart ass about that, because I know I am just a fan, but it seems to me that they are expecting a guy with a weak ass arm to just drop back and throw. Forget it. It is not playing to his strengths. I mean that drive where he got the ball out quickly, two shots to TM and then to Dotson, was probably the best passing drive I ever witnessed from him.

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I guess you will have to take that up with Rivera. That is what he said.  I also believe whether you call it roll out or bootleg, Taylor needs to move out of the pocket more. The guy can barely see over the LOS. I see mixed results with his running to one side and throwing the ball.  Maybe I am just not as smart as you are about football, and I am not even being a smart ass about that, because I know I am just a fan, but it seems to me that they are expecting a guy with a weak ass arm to just drop back and throw. Forget it. It is not playing to his strengths. I mean that drive where he got the ball out quickly, two shots to TM and then to Dotson, was probably the best passing drive I ever witnessed from him.

 

Rivera is a defensive coach and probably doesn't have much to do with the offense outside of giving a thumbs up to the game plan. Either way, we've seen Heinicke do rollouts and boots, and they usually don't end well, because he doesn't have the arm strength to throw without setting his feet or to get the ball into small windows in a compressed half field read, and he's not much of a threat to run nowadays either.

 

I think you're confusing rollouts and boots with off-schedule scrambling. Heinicke is pretty good when he can evade the rush a bit and buy time with his legs, but that's totally different than a designed boot.

[El Mexican]

"TH has a weak arm".

 

Apparently no one here saw that 60+ yard bomb last Sunday.

Yeesh.

[Conn]

4 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

"TH has a weak arm".

 

Apparently no one here saw that 60+ yard bomb last Sunday.

Yeesh.

You can’t be serious with this. We’ve been talking about this for two years, any QB in the league can set up and generally heave it that far, in a vacuum. The arm strength issue comes when throwing timing passes with velocity, off balance off the back foot, etc. And in certain medium and deeper outs that he can’t throw without putting the ball in great danger. Multiple times he almost got picked against the Giants because with his lack of velocity, the ball barely made it past the DB’s hands on throws that should be routine. The lack of arm strength criticism has never been “he literally cannot heave the ball downfield”. There’s more nuance to it than that, and it should be obvious seeing the throws he can and cannot fit into various windows. We have almost two seasons worth of games of him to reference at this point and you can’t see that? 

[mistertim]

8 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

"TH has a weak arm".

 

Apparently no one here saw that 60+ yard bomb last Sunday.

Yeesh.

 

 

I don't know how many times people have to point out that being able to throw a deep ball like that isn't much of a barometer for NFL arm strength.

[mh86]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

 

I don't know how many times people have to point out that being able to throw a deep ball like that isn't much of a barometer for NFL arm strength.

I can throw a football pretty far, but that thing is going to sail in the air for what feels like an eternity. Clearly I have an nfl arm

[Tundra scout]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

Rollouts and bootlegs don't play to Heinicke's strengths. In some ways they exacerbate them because it further exposes his weak arm when he's trying to throw on the run and can't set his base before the pass.

That’s what needs to be done with Wentz. Put him in there 

[mistertim]

5 minutes ago, mh86 said:

I can throw a football pretty far, but that thing is going to sail in the air for what feels like an eternity. Clearly I have an nfl arm

 

Yes, yes. But do you have.....MOXIE?

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mh86 said:

I can throw a football pretty far, but that thing is going to sail in the air for what feels like an eternity. Clearly I have an nfl arm

 

I think a good layman's analogy is a baseball.  I can air out a baseball pretty far.  But if I was on the mound at a much shorter distance, no way I am throwing the ball anywhere near the 90s like a Major League pitcher 

[Chump Bailey]

41 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

"TH has a weak arm".

 

Apparently no one here saw that 60+ yard bomb last Sunday.

Yeesh.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

Is it possible to get a headcount of people who actually think Heinicke is a productive, good quarterback?

 

He’s likable. His style lends itself to some big plays at times due to the risk. He’s got good “skills”.

 

But he has a weak arm, limited running ability, short(which isn’t always a knock but it is combined with the other issues) and he is a risk taker. 
 

I don’t get defending him if you don’t think he’s a top, say, 25 guy in the league. 
 

So, if anyone thinks that there are no more than 24 QBs better than him, please leave your name here. I’m extremely curious.

 

*Note: I want to be clear. Heinicke is a better fit for us than many of the lower end QBs types in the league due to his familiarity with the system. So this conversation is NOT about his familiarity with our OC. So for the sake of this conversation, assume Turner is the head coach of the Pawtucket Red Sox and we have a new OC.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsmania123]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

 

I think you're confusing rollouts and boots with off-schedule scrambling. Heinicke is pretty good when he can evade the rush a bit and buy time with his legs, but that's totally different than a designed boot.

Nah, I am not confusing a rollout and a boot leg with off-schedule scrambling.  

[GoDeep81]

23 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Is it possible to get a headcount of people who actually think Heinicke is a productive, good quarterback?
 

I don’t get defending him if you don’t think he’s a top, say, 25 guy in the league. 

I think he's a good productive (backup) QB, for "us".. I defend him because, well, he's currently the best option we have, imo. Wouldn't mind seeing Wentz again or even better Howell. I have no illusions of making noise, even if we made the playoffs. It's fun to dream, while it's still possible, but realistically we're not good enough to really worry about it. I think TH confirmed he's a great BACKUP QB for this current team. He gets my support until we have a better option. What I don't get is people continually crapping on the guy. He's the backup. lol (and he's done a pretty good job, all things considered) 

[KDawg]

Just now, GoDeep81 said:

I think he's a good productive (backup) QB, for "us".. I defend him because, well, he's currently the best option we have, imo. Wouldn't mind seeing Wentz again or even better Howell. I have no illusions of making noise, even if we made the playoffs. It's fun to dream, while it's still possible, but realistically we're not good enough to really worry about it. I think TH confirmed he's a great BACKUP QB for this current team. He gets my support until we have a better option. What I don't get is people continually crapping on the guy. He's the backup. lol (and he's done a pretty good job, all things considered) 

So… not top 25. Which is what I asked. Got it.

[GoDeep81]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

So… not top 25. Which is what I asked. Got it.

Top 25 what though? Starter or backup? I'd call him a top 25 backup for sure. Are there any other backup QB's with his W/L record? Or, 25 of them?? Continually trying to analyze him as a starter just seems silly to me. It's not his fault this team has no GM or ability to bring in a quality QB1. (or OL, or LB, or..) He'll, we can't even find someone to return punts. lol 

[GoDeep81]

43 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Nah, I am not confusing a rollout and a boot leg with off-schedule scrambling.  

Yea, the scrambles add about 3-5 seconds to the play. Time for guys to get off route, adjust, lose defenders, etc. 

[method man]

12 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Top 25 what though? Starter or backup? I'd call him a top 25 backup for sure. Are there any other backup QB's with his W/L record? Or, 25 of them?? Continually trying to analyze him as a starter just seems silly to me. It's not his fault this team has no GM or ability to bring in a quality QB1. (or OL, or LB, or..) He'll, we can't even find someone to return punts. lol 

 

When folks like Nathan Peterman and Nick Mullens are lead backups, only an idiot would say that Heinicke is not a top 25 backup QB in the NFL

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, GoDeep81 said:

Top 25 what though? Starter or backup? I'd call him a top 25 backup for sure. Are there any other backup QB's with his W/L record? Or, 25 of them?? Continually trying to analyze him as a starter just seems silly to me. It's not his fault this team has no GM or ability to bring in a quality QB1. (or OL, or LB, or..) He'll, we can't even find someone to return punts. lol 

 

His post seemed pretty clear. Top 25 QB in the league. I'm curious about this myself, actually. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by mistertim

[FootballZombie]

13 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I'm curious about this myself, actually. 

 

Pins n needles

w/ my popcorn

 

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