The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Est.1974]

27 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Playing Wentz over Howell at this point is stupid. 

Yep, stupid and comes with the added financial risk of getting stuck with Wentz contract in 2023. Unfortunately I think it’s almost nailed on that we see Wentz taking snaps in the not to distant future.

[zCommander]

29 minutes ago, KDawg said:

No, they do not. Not for any reason whatsoever. If Howell is believed in then why waste time with a guy who is going to cost $26M against the cap next year and could allow us to sign two competent OL?. 

 

The team is still playing to get into the playoffs so Ron is not going to put Howell in. Also this allows them to say, if Wentz fails, look we gave you a shot and so sorry it didn't work out. 

 

But if Wentz plays extremely well they could decide to bring him back. I would imagine it would have to be at a lower cost. Only way it would make sense to gamble on him again.

 

Now, as for Howell, I liked him over all others on pro day. I was excited when we got him and couldn't believe something went right our way. I wanted a rookie franchise type QB to start in 23 anyway. So yes I would prefer we go that route instead of Wentz. I hope they do. I really do.

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

 

Howell reminds me of a young Russell Wilson.

thanks God he doesn’t remind you of an old Russell Wilson 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, zCommander said:

Also this allows them to say, if Wentz fails, look we gave you a shot and so sorry it didn't work out. 

I don’t think Ron playing Wentz will have anything to do with throwing him a bone.  Ron will only move on to Wentz if he truly believes he can win with him and the locker room will be okay with it.

[FLSkinz83]

I'm wondering if Ron being so public about going back to Wentz is a way for him to get TH to play like he did in the playoff game.   Basically it's your last chance. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

Howell's playing style actually reminds me a lot of Heinicke, but he's got a much thicker build and he has a gun. And he actually runs.

 

Tough for me to come up with a comp for Howell.

 

I noticed some NFL insider types likes to say Drew Brees when he is at his best.

 

Some said Baker Mayfield.

 

He doesn't really remind me of Russell Wilson as someone said here.  Wilson in his prime was spiderman in the pocket -- an escape artist, off platform dude.     Howell's style is different.

 

As for Heinicke, yeah Howell has that feisty gamer side to his play.  So I get the analogy

 

I do think the ultimate comp to Heinicke is Haener who is coming out this year.  Haener IMO is more skilled, but he plays in that style.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[CobraCommander]

33 minutes ago, Est.1974 said:

thanks God he doesn’t remind you of an old Russell Wilson 

I know right. Dude did not stay humble or good.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I'm wondering if Ron being so public about going back to Wentz is a way for him to get TH to play like he did in the playoff game.   Basically it's your last chance. 

 

I was listening to Bram-Keim in their last podcast.  They speculated the same.  

 

I think the comments from Ron about Heinicke running more and play better in the red zone and the 15 minutes meeting after the game gives that vibe.

 

They speculated that Heinicke is at his best when he plays like everything is on the line whether in the game or for his career ala the playoff game against Tampa -- and they might be trying to get him that sense of urgency for this game.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I'm wondering if Ron being so public about going back to Wentz is a way for him to get TH to play like he did in the playoff game.   Basically it's your last chance. 

I can buy that.

 

The only time I enjoy watching him play football is when the chips are stacked against him.

[FLSkinz83]

This week in particular, the passing game needs to consist of TH's first read, check down and then run.   No time to sit there and go through your progressions.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

I don't understand why folks are afraid of Howell but are fine with Heinicke. It makes absolutely no sense. What are we going to do, be worse?

 

Yeah what are we putting up like 16 points on some of the worst passing defenses in the league.   We broke 20 against the Texans but that was via a pick 6 so even against that team we were in single digits.

 

We can't score in the red zone.  We suck on third down. 

 

The bar isn't that high for Howell to reach.  Heck if all he's doing is mostly handing off and adding to the run game himself via his own mobility that alone might be an improvement.

 

I know setting protections according to some coaches isn't easy for a first time rookie QB but heck I am getting the impression listening to Logan Paulsen among others, Heinicke might not be hot at setting protections anyway. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[bowhunter]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just watched Howells pre-season highlight film. By golly that kid throws (and runs) with some Zip. If Heini can patent "Moxie," I think I'll refer to Sam as "Zippy" Howell

[88Comrade2000]

I think the only way you see Howell at qb, would be mop up time in the 23 season. 

 

We are in the playoff hunt, currently in 7th place. If Ron needs to move from Taylor, no way he goes with rookie Howell. He will go with Carson.

 

For 23, Ron is fighting for his job. A new owner likely won't retain him, if he doesn't win at least a playoff game. So, Ron will go the veteran route again in 23. Howell won't be starting. Ron won't put his future on Howell.  The only way Howell starts in 23, he does what rookie Russell Wilson did. Win the job over the veteran. I don't see that.

 

As for Taylor, no-one is giving him 20 million a year.

Edited December 21, 2022 by 88Comrade2000

[CobraCommander]

Just now, 88Comrade2000 said:

I think the only way you see Howell at qb, would be mop up time in the 23 season. 

 

We are in the playoff hunt, currently in 7th place. If Ron needs to move from Taylor, no way he goes with rookie Howell. He will go with Carson.

 

For 23, Ron is fighting for his job. A new owner likely won't retain him, if he doesn't win at least a playoff game. So, Ron will go the veteran route again in 23. Howell won't be starting. Ron won't put his future on Howell.  The only way Howell starts in 23, he plus what rookie Russell Wilson did. Win the job over the veteran. I don't see that.

 

As for Taylor, no-one is giving him 20 million a year.

And that's all exactly why I don't want Ron anymore. Dude is a relic of the past. 

[Zim489]

3 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

FWIW - EB on The Junkies this morning in the "Hit the Skins" segment said they (coaches) really, really like Sam Howell.

 

 

not shocking they like the players they selected. If they didnt they wouldnt be here

4 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I think the only way you see Howell at qb, would be mop up time in the 23 season. 

 

We are in the playoff hunt, currently in 7th place. If Ron needs to move from Taylor, no way he goes with rookie Howell. He will go with Carson.

 

For 23, Ron is fighting for his job. A new owner likely won't retain him, if he doesn't win at least a playoff game. So, Ron will go the veteran route again in 23. Howell won't be starting. Ron won't put his future on Howell.  The only way Howell starts in 23, he does what rookie Russell Wilson did. Win the job over the veteran. I don't see that.

 

As for Taylor, no-one is giving him 20 million a year.

And thats exactly why I dont want Ron here. You dont want a desperate decision maker. 

[No Nonsense]

31 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

This week in particular, No time to sit there and go through your progressions.

You know that, I know that, everybody’s knows that. But when the game comes, that’s exactly what they’ll do. 

[HigSkin]

 

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

 

Okay, my memory is a bit foggy.... But are they practicing on dead grass? 

 

Words cannot describe that. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 hours ago, El Mexican said:

 

 

If this O-Line magically transforms from one year to the next it will be RR's crowning achievement.

 

His track record seems pretty weak in this regard, though.

 

O line was bad last year?

[skinny21]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

O line was bad last year?

It fell apart a bit due to injuries (I don’t fault Ron for that though - they had some decent depth).  I think they can get this group back to decent pretty easily, including some depth, but more than that might be difficult.

 

Leno, Norwell, Roullier, Cosmi, Lucas starting.  Paul (and maybe a returning Schweitzer) as G depth.  Larsen backing up the center spot (is he a FA?).  Gotta find a tackle for depth at minimum, and apparently multiple backup centers, lol.

[88Comrade2000]

15 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

not shocking they like the players they selected. If they didnt they wouldnt be here

And thats exactly why I dont want Ron here. You dont want a desperate decision maker. 

But we have no choice. My gut says Dan does sell but he slow walks the sale a bit, as a **** you to everyone. We are expecting a change over by March owners meetings. I am not expecting a change over until May. Even if Bezos is the buyer.

 

Either way, the changeover will happen to late to change for 23. Whatever desperate move Ron makes on 23, we will have to deal with it. If it works, then Ron will be here beyond 23 and likely gets an extension. If it doesn’t, he will get    The boot. In 24, we will move on from Ron’s mistake and use whatever assets in picks and players to move up in the 24 draft to get one of the top qbs.

 

 

I know you expect things to change for 23 but it isn’t happening.

[bowhunter]

38 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

not shocking they like the players they selected. If they didnt they wouldnt be here

And thats exactly why I dont want Ron here. You dont want a desperate decision maker. 

And the reason why I would hope the new owner would extend Ron and the FO immediately. Eliminate the uncertainty with our upcoming Free Agents and allow the decisions to be made in the best interest of the TEAM and not out of job desperation. You can still fire/replace them 6 months later if you want to (and hopefully the new owner isn't too cheap to do so) but entering into an off-season in limbo never makes for a smooth transition.

[Skinsinparadise]

While I am on board with seeing Howell, I get running with Wentz for now as the alternative.  As for Howell, Keim has said they don't feel he's ready.  Howell talked about how his drops/steps in college were the same for every play just about but he's adjusting to the NFL -- 3 step, 5 step, etc that matches the play which is different from what he is used to.  I'd take a chance anyway if it were left to me but it doesn't seem crazy to me to try Wentz first factoring context.

 

Context being this is a pressure situation.  I know some here see the playoff dream as over but the team doesn't seem to think the same.   So that puts a lot on Howell's plate to play well where the team is hoping to make the playoffs and against at least 2 great defenses.

 

And i also get the idea of it might be different for Wentz this time.  the context has changed.  I do think he can potentially play better this time.  But i am not really high on the idea either because of Wentz's reputation of choking in big games.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

33 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Okay, my memory is a bit foggy.... But are they practicing on dead grass? 

 

Words cannot describe that. 

It’s Dan, he can’t afford new grass.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't understand why folks are afraid of Howell but are fine with Heinicke. It makes absolutely no sense. What are we going to do, be worse? I can see that concern with Wentz. He's a statue. But Howell lost all of his weapons and played behind an OL that you would have started on his senior season and he was still fantastic. He fell because he wasn't a Heisman Trophy candidate and that spooked teams. The guy was being heralded as a top 10 pick in the years prior. And his senior season was not a fall off year. It was a different year.

 

I think the NFL missed the boat on Howell. Badly. 

 

And I can't wait to see if I'm right. 

For me, I’m optimistic and excited about Howell.  He’s got Heinicke beat in spades on the tangible things.  My reservation is the mental side.  The bar is low given how Heinicke has been playing, but if Howell is having trouble throwing on time, reading defenses, is holding the ball a bit longer (behind this oline)… things could certainly be worse.  Now, with that said, I’m down with giving it a go - feels like we’re in a position that we need some spark to have a serious chance at reaching the playoffs, let alone winning a game.